Pet peve of mine

[Coyote]

In jobs I've worked with smokers and frequent "smoke breaks", I use the same time to go grab a cup of coffee.

[Darth Servo]

So? Sir Isaac Newton was an asshole. Doen't mean its a smart thing to do.

Darth Wong implied that all smokers are morons and assholes.
I pointed out examples of smokers who are not morons or assholes.
Darth Wong replied that moron/assholery is contingent on not having an excuse.
I accepted this point.

MY point was that doing something stupid does not make the person stupid across the board. Even if Einstein knew the dangers of smoking and ignored them, he would be stupid on that point but would still be the genius of physics that we all know and love, just like Newton probably knew that its stupid to be an asshole but did it anyway, yet he was still a genius in his field. My own father holds a PhD in electrical engineering and in his field is world famous yet he is also a YEC.

[rhoenix]

Instead of starting a new thread on this question I figured I'd post it right here where it was inspired.

Should smokers be allowed smoke breaks? I am getting sick and tired of working my ass off and seeing the same pack of guys leaving for a "Cig break" every hour it seems.

I'm off to lunch, pack of jackasses outside puffing away and chit chatting, I'm off to court, same jackasses outside puffing and chit chatting. Everytime things get stressful or rough during work, "I'm off for a cig break." Well, golly gee I wish I could hit that escape hatch to whenever I wanted. NY State law mandates two 15 minute breaks a day. One in the morning and one in the afternoon. Smokers are supposed to shoehorn their smoking into those two break periods. Instead I know some assholes who are down there very 2 hours for 10 minutes at a time or more and they get a blind eye turned to that shit because they're smokers.

I don't particualrly give a shit that they're smokers. They chose to be addicted not me and so if they're jonesin' for a smoke too fucking bad. Why should they get extra breaks because of it?

You know, lazy people certainly aren't limited to smokers. I'm one of the very few smokers where I work (a great amusing irony - I work for a Christian Health care company, and I get shit for smoking all the time, even when I make sure to be as far by myself as possible when I do), and yet I'm one of the hardest-working people there, if I do say so myself. I don't smoke unless I'm either on a lunch break or one of my 15 minute breaks, because I would feel as if I'm dodging responsibility if I do.

I must admit that I do get a kick out of watching them huddling at the entrance of a building like refugees during the winter.

Yeah. It's just about as bad during the rainy season, sadly.

Admittedly, that's an inherent amusement in smoking - watching people during the winter keep exhaling until they pass out.

[RedImperator]

Instead of starting a new thread on this question I figured I'd post it right here where it was inspired.

Should smokers be allowed smoke breaks? I am getting sick and tired of working my ass off and seeing the same pack of guys leaving for a "Cig break" every hour it seems.

I'm off to lunch, pack of jackasses outside puffing away and chit chatting, I'm off to court, same jackasses outside puffing and chit chatting. Everytime things get stressful or rough during work, "I'm off for a cig break." Well, golly gee I wish I could hit that escape hatch to whenever I wanted. NY State law mandates two 15 minute breaks a day. One in the morning and one in the afternoon. Smokers are supposed to shoehorn their smoking into those two break periods. Instead I know some assholes who are down there very 2 hours for 10 minutes at a time or more and they get a blind eye turned to that shit because they're smokers.

I don't particualrly give a shit that they're smokers. They chose to be addicted not me and so if they're jonesin' for a smoke too fucking bad. Why should they get extra breaks because of it?

I must admit that I do get a kick out of watching them huddling at the entrance of a building like refugees during the winter.

My work experience has been retail, industrial, or teaching, none of which are flexible enough for a smoke break any time you want. I can't exactly leave a room full of teenagers unsupervised while I run down four flights of steps and around half the building to get to the designated smoking area. In retail, when things are slow I could slip away for an on-the-clock smoke break, but that's no different than the non-smokers sneaking into the break room to watch baseball or hiding in the stockroom reading magazines or making personal phone calls from the cash register phones. When things are busy, sometimes it's impossible to even get the breaks to which you're entitled. On an assembly line, even taking an unscheduled leak is a major disruption, never mind a ten minute smoke break.

So from my experience, no, smokers shouldn't get extra breaks. I certainly survive without them, I don't see why an office drone shouldn't. For damn sure I'd like a smoke after I've just spent an hour dealing with rowdy teenagers who don't want to learn anything, but if I've got another class coming in, I have to wait.

[Medic]

In jobs I've worked with smokers and frequent "smoke breaks", I use the same time to go grab a cup of coffee.

The crux of the question is whether smokers get preferential treament -- if it's equally viable for everyone to take minor wank / coffee / smoke breaks, then it's at least consistent. But then having everyone take 5-10 minute breaks 5 times a day sounds unfeasible so this generally leads back to...

... what Stravo (and I) noted, these people take smoke breaks while someone else is busting their ass, be it processing huge volumes of paperwork in a 9-5 white collar job or PMCS'ing a Humvee in the motor pool. THAT is unacceptable.

[Surlethe]

One of my teachers used to walk out of the building after each class to take a smoke break. He was a heavy smoker, and often was five minutes late to class (he got around this by officially starting class five minutes late, and putting it on the syllabus. I guess he was a fixture, so the administration put up with him). This is the same guy who got arrested for child porn, so I doubt he would have changed his ways; he was always stubborn, and even once seriously argued that he would prefer instant gratification over serious potential ramifications with respect to smoking.

[ImpishAngel]

I smoke, and I do toss them every once and a while for convinence sake.
But more often than not I pocket them (like at golf courses, school, and puplic activities).

I only flick once and a while, and that's from the habit of when I did it when I was younger.
The more attention I caused when I was younger, the happier I was.

Now I try not to make a big deal out of my smoking, because just because I choose to do it, doesn't mean everyone else around me has to suffer the consequences, ie. picking up buts.

That's my honest answer...



and no....i'm not looking to get flamed.

Edit:

And as far as work, no I don't think so.
I didn't when I was working.
I still only got 3 breaks, unless of course we were dead, but everyone pretty much did what they wanted to then anyways.
Just because your a smoker does not excuse you from your job.
However smokers do find convient ways to get more breaks...sortof.
I know when alot of the people I worked with used to go to the potty, I would have a smoke instead.
But special treatment is definately out of the question, i know I don't expect it at least.

[Zaia]

Just out of curiousity, does anyone else get tired of watching assholes throw cigarette butts out of their cars and onto the ground? Do they think that somehow butts don't qualify as litter?

This topic infuriates me too. Yes, of course it's fucking litter! Stupid assholes.

[NoXion]

Just out of curiousity, does anyone else get tired of watching assholes throw cigarette butts out of their cars and onto the ground? Do they think that somehow butts don't qualify as litter?

This topic infuriates me too. Yes, of course it's fucking litter! Stupid assholes.

I just voted in that poll, only to realise it was 2 years old Sorry!

[Star-Blighter]

I don't litter buts, period. Littering is a crime, and I don't commit crimes. You want to argue with me about, then I have a nice full ashtray to hurl in your opinionated fucking faces. My defence for smoking: I'm doing it, so piss off and go worry about your own problems as I don't have the time nor inclination to converse with you about anything, much less what you might think of my lifestyle. Maybe we wouldn't all be assholes if every non-smoker didn't get their rocks off playing holier than thou by preaching how "superior" or intelligent they are by not smoking. I'm really sick of this baised stigma.

Smoker=!lesser human being by some nebulous standard that dares to label ME?

Then you can kindly get fucked by a potato covered in razor blades.

Why don't you all just argue that we should be put into slave-labor while your at it, seems no different then any other unjustified attack on a persons habits. I happen to hate people drinking coffee any other way then black, but I don't harp on people about it like some rightious crusader for the Inquisition.

Fucking elitist health-nut pricks, every single fucking one of you.

[FSTargetDrone]

I'm really sick of this baised stigma.

Smoker=!lesser human being by some nebulous standard that dares to label ME?

Then you can kindly get fucked by a potato covered in razor blades.

Why don't you all just argue that we should be put into slave-labor while your at it, seems no different then any other unjustified attack on a persons habits. I happen to hate people drinking coffee any other way then black, but I don't harp on people about it like some rightious crusader for the Inquisition.

The only problem with your stinking, miserable, filthy habit is that unless you are hermetically sealed someplace and somehow scrub the air you pollute and exhale, you (or by extension, smokers in general) are imposing said stinking, miserable, filthy habit on the rest of us who do not smoke. There is zero health benefit in anyway whatsoever, so all of you people who smoke are figuretively (if not literally) blowing it in our faces. I don't care that you smoke inasmuch as I care that people who smoking are pissing me off by my having to even smell the cigarette smoke. I live in a smoke-free apartment complex, as I mentioned earlier, yet inconsiderate people go ahead and smoke in the pool area and everwhere outside even though smoking is forbidden there. When I asked the people who were smoking if they could please do it elsewhere, each of them said, "as soon as we finish this one." I was driving my uncle somewhere (he's a heavy smoker) and he actually asked me if he could light a cigarette in my car because he can't go 15 minutes without needing his goddamn nicotine fix. If I smoked, you can be damn sure I would not dare to ask if I could smoke in a non-smoker's home or car.

Friday afternoon, the woman who cleans my neighbor's apartment sat on my bench in front of my apartment's kitchen window for about 10 minutes and lit up a cigarette or 3. The windows were open and her stinking pollutants drifited into my apartment.

Am I getting pissy for this nonsense? Damn right I am. You can revel in your smoking all you wish, but the moment I even have to smell any cigarette smoke, you are imposing it on me.

There is no defense for smoking, at all, nor for those who flick their butts for any reason, ever.

Fucking elitist health-nut pricks, every single fucking one of you.

Yeah, well it's people like you who drive up my damn insurance costs. Those of us who care about our health and do not smoke pay for you who do.

[althornin]

The only problem with your stinking, miserable, filthy habit is that unless you are hermetically sealed someplace and somehow scrub the air you pollute and exhale, you (or by extension, smokers in general) are imposing said stinking, miserable, filthy habit on the rest of us who do not smoke. There is zero health benefit in anyway whatsoever, so all of you people who smoke are figuretively (if not literally) blowing it in our faces. I don't care that you smoke inasmuch as I care that people who smoking are pissing me off by my having to even smell the cigarette smoke. I live in a smoke-free apartment complex, as I mentioned earlier, yet inconsiderate people go ahead and smoke in the pool area and everwhere outside even though smoking is forbidden there. When I asked the people who were smoking if they could please do it elsewhere, each of them said, "as soon as we finish this one." I was driving my uncle somewhere (he's a heavy smoker) and he actually asked me if he could light a cigarette in my car because he can't go 15 minutes without needing his goddamn nicotine fix. If I smoked, you can be damn sure I would not dare to ask if I could smoke in a non-smoker's home or car.

Friday afternoon, the woman who cleans my neighbor's apartment sat on my bench in front of my apartment's kitchen window for about 10 minutes and lit up a cigarette or 3. The windows were open and her stinking pollutants drifited into my apartment.

Am I getting pissy for this nonsense? Damn right I am. You can revel in your smoking all you wish, but the moment I even have to smell any cigarette smoke, you are imposing it on me.

There is no defense for smoking, at all, nor for those who flick their butts for any reason, ever.

Of course, by this logic, any avoidable polluting activity would be just as bad, correct?

I'm sure there is some (other) activity that some people enjoy that causes pollution. What about people who like to drive around for fun? They don't need to go anywhere, just going joyriding. This extra pollution fucks over everyone else for no gain, but I don't see you bitching that people should only drive when needed.

What if a smoker only smokes in his house or his car? Is he still guilty?

(note - used to smoke, used to flick butts. Quit smoking years ago.)

[Star-Blighter]

The only problem with your stinking, miserable, filthy habit is that unless you are hermetically sealed someplace and somehow scrub the air you pollute and exhale, you (or by extension, smokers in general) are imposing said stinking, miserable, filthy habit on the rest of us who do not smoke.

Am "I" in your neighborhood? No, so shut your presumptious ass up. No smoker has ever needed to be sealed up. Infact we tend to stay away from other people so we enjoy the blessing of solitude while taking a drag. I don't impose anything on you and I dare you to prove that giving a smoker five or six feet of space outside is not sufficient for those with sensitive noses.

There is zero health benefit in anyway whatsoever, so all of you people who smoke are figuretively (if not literally) blowing it in our faces.

So coffee, soda pop, fastfood and chewing gum are healthy? Gee, aren't we a gifted hypocrit. Your the kind of nosy shit-wad who deserves to have a puff blown into your nose, and I'd gladly make an exception to my normally good conduct and blow a fat ring right at you if you made that statement to my face.

I don't care that you smoke inasmuch as I care that people who smoking are pissing me off by my having to even smell the cigarette smoke.

So first you insult me by saying "I" (and other smokers) are imposing "our" habit on all non-smokers, and yet the problem isn't really me but that you even getting a hint of cigerette smoke sends you bonkers? Which is it?

I live in a smoke-free apartment complex, as I mentioned earlier, yet inconsiderate people go ahead and smoke in the pool area and everwhere outside even though smoking is forbidden there. When I asked the people who were smoking if they could please do it elsewhere, each of them said, "as soon as we finish this one".

Thats their problem (and by extension YOURS). A cigerette can't just be switched off. You light one, smoke it, ash it when its done and later in the day light another if your feeling a little high-strung. When one is down to the last smoke, they don't take kindly to you asking them to just toss it in trash-can. I keep a spare pack with me for those sittuations so I've never had a problem with ashing a newly lit cigerette on request

I was driving my uncle somewhere (he's a heavy smoker) and he actually asked me if he could light a cigarette in my car because he can't go 15 minutes without needing his goddamn nicotine fix. If I smoked, you can be damn sure I would not dare to ask if I could smoke in a non-smoker's home or car.

He asked, didn't he?!? He didn't just lite the fucker up as though it was like poping a breathmint, DID HE? And he's your fucking uncle for gods sakes! I'd make an exception for him, as a little arosol spray (another product that isn't good at all to breath) can work wonders for that.

And you don't smoke so you couldn't say what the fuck you would do in that sittuation. I CAN, having dealt with my father's habit as a teen, the smoke would make me feel ill and dizzy. I even got him to quit, and then he died at sixtynine of heartfailure caused by adema and excess weight after he stopped smoking.

You don't know shit, and never have.

Friday afternoon, the woman who cleans my neighbor's apartment sat on my bench in front of my apartment's kitchen window for about 10 minutes and lit up a cigarette or 3. The windows were open and her stinking pollutants drifited into my apartment.

When you have to deal with solvents and open paint cans right outside your window, then I might be sympathetic. You have NO idea what real bad air is. Secondly, its a damned plant, so quit throwing the "pollitant" nonesense about. Room deodorisors are more harmfull to the environment then the average cigerette.

Am I getting pissy for this nonsense? Damn right I am. You can revel in your smoking all you wish, but the moment I even have to smell any cigarette smoke, you are imposing it on me.

I'm not imposing anything on you. The inconsiderate assholes you live with ARE, and they are not representative of every smoker out there. But I guess its just easier to lump us all into a singular group labeled "asshole smokers", I personally don't like being treated as an ethnic group.

There is no defense for smoking, at all, nor for those who flick their butts for any reason, ever.

There is no defence for not using turnsignals, crossing streets without using crosswalks, drinking frapichinos, eating REDMEAT. People do it however, and isn't just going to stop because you throw up your hands and shout "I DON'T LIKE THIS".

Yeah, well it's people like you who drive up my damn insurance costs. Those of us who care about our health and do not smoke pay for you who do.

Must I reitterate? I haven't done a god-damned thing to you or anyone else because of my vice which I have every right to enjoy. Where do you get off judging me because you have to deal with some assholes who can't the fucking sign saying:

NON-SMOKING COMMUNITY.

Your problem isn't with smokers at all. Its with lazy dipshits who don't respect rules and the letter of the law. It was simply convient to snowball us all together until everyone starts seeing fucking demon horns spouting out our heads.

Thank you for your jack-assery.

[Darth Lucifer]

Am "I" in your neighborhood? No, so shut your presumptious ass up. No smoker has ever needed to be sealed up. Infact we tend to stay away from other people so we enjoy the blessing of solitude while taking a drag. I don't impose anything on you and I dare you to prove that giving a smoker five or six feet of space outside is not sufficient for those with sensitive noses.

You don't have to be. Cig smoke contains carbon monoxide and other chemicals which contribute to pollution and air quality.

And five or six feet is not much space there...especially if the wind decides to shift a different direction all of a sudden.

So coffee, soda pop, fastfood and chewing gum are healthy? Gee, aren't we a gifted hypocrit. Your the kind of nosy shit-wad who deserves to have a puff blown into your nose, and I'd gladly make an exception to my normally good conduct and blow a fat ring right at you if you made that statement to my face.

False analogy Fallacy. Unlike cigarette smoke, the side effects of the above items negatively affect the health of primary user.

A cigerette can't just be switched off.

Yes it can. It doesn't take much to extinguish a cigarette. Flick the coal/cherry or just step on the butt. Be sure to pick it up.

When one is down to the last smoke, they don't take kindly to you asking them to just toss it in trash-can. I keep a spare pack with me for those sittuations so I've never had a problem with ashing a newly lit cigerette on request.

I'd hope they wouldn't put it in a trash can...fire hazard. And they can always walk away.

...its a damned plant, so quit throwing the "pollitant" nonesense about. Room deodorisors are more harmfull to the environment then the average cigerette.

Evidence of such? And just because a cigarette may conain less pollutants than an aerosol freshner, it does not mean they contain NO pollutants.

Linky

[Einhander Sn0m4n]

My roommates have been stressed lately, so they've been smoking not quite like machineguns, but definitely like semiautos with hi-cap mags on.


Oh well, they can eat South Texas Summer Hard Vacuum when I open up the house to clear out the smoke...

[Star-Blighter]

You don't have to be. Cig smoke contains carbon monoxide and other chemicals which contribute to pollution and air quality.

And five or six feet is not much space there...especially if the wind decides to shift a different direction all of a sudden.

I can accept that, but how does a cig compare to the amount of carbon monoxide produced through combustion in cars every minute?

False analogy Fallacy. Unlike cigarette smoke, the side effects of the above items negatively affect the health of primary user.

Are refering to second hand smoke and it's affect on those who breath it?

If so, I can't argue with that. Second-hand smoke is a problem and is a primary reason why I don't smoke around other people. Aside from that aspect my analogy is fairly accurate. Anyone who consumes the above mentioned products is indeed causing a degree of damage to their bodies above normal nutritional requirements. This begs the question of where one draws the line and whether a line should be drawn in the first place.

Yes it can. It doesn't take much to extinguish a cigarette. Flick the coal/cherry or just step on the butt. Be sure to pick it up.

But once its out, the cig is useless and I know of no one who would relight a cigarette. That is what I wanted to convey.

I'd hope they wouldn't put it in a trash can...fire hazard. And they can always walk away.

After putting it out of course, anyone just tosses a hot cherry into the trash deserves a very hefty fine. And I agree they can walk away, no arguement there.

Evidence of such? And just because a cigarette may conain less pollutants than an aerosol freshner, it does not mean they contain NO pollutants.

This is mainly due to the harmful pesticides used on tobacco plants to guard them from insects. Methyl Bromide gas, aldicarb, malithion, and endrin are all contained in various qauntities of most cigarette brands, you can thank big tobacco for that. Methyl Bromide was largely phased out in 2005 but I believe its still used in tobacco fields. I believe thats where the claim of over 40 carcinogens comes from and I don't see any information that claims the plant or nicotine itself contains these harmful chemicals.

Nonetheless I can see where you are coming from and agree that any product with such wide ranging sideeffects needs to be made safe. Whether or not tobacco is to be banned isn't going to be up to us without alot of work however. I'd like to think that I am more concious smoker that attempts to minimize the discomfort felt by others caused by this vice. At the very least you have actually discussed the topic with me instead of throwing around insults and flames.

Your candor is much appreciated.

[FSTargetDrone]

Am "I" in your neighborhood? No, so shut your presumptious ass up. No smoker has ever needed to be sealed up. Infact we tend to stay away from other people so we enjoy the blessing of solitude while taking a drag. I don't impose anything on you and I dare you to prove that giving a smoker five or six feet of space outside is not sufficient for those with sensitive noses

Angry, much? I said: "you (or by extension, smokers in general)" Do you understand the distinction?

So coffee, soda pop, fastfood and chewing gum are healthy? Gee, aren't we a gifted hypocrit. Your the kind of nosy shit-wad who deserves to have a puff blown into your nose, and I'd gladly make an exception to my normally good conduct and blow a fat ring right at you if you made that statement to my face.

So first you insult me by saying "I" (and other smokers) are imposing "our" habit on all non-smokers, and yet the problem isn't really me but that you even getting a hint of cigerette smoke sends you bonkers? Which is it?

Coffee, soda and fast food can have some (if only negligible) benefits, all if used in moderation. One might argue that chewing gum is good exercise for the jaws. Having fast food every day is detremential to one's health. Having it occasionally is relatively harmless, especially if one exercises and eats other foods aside from fast food. There is zero positive physical benefit to smoking.

And you are most certainly imposing your habit (to clarify, "you smokers") on those of us (including me) who do not. Why should I have to be exposed to your (again, we are talking about "you smokers", so you are clear) harmful secondary smoking because you have to do it around everyone else who does not?

Thats their problem (and by extension YOURS). A cigerette can't just be switched off. You light one, smoke it, ash it when its done and later in the day light another if your feeling a little high-strung. When one is down to the last smoke, they don't take kindly to you asking them to just toss it in trash-can. I keep a spare pack with me for those sittuations so I've never had a problem with ashing a newly lit cigerette on request

So because you smokers have to get your nicotine fix to satisfy your (again, "you smokers") right now, you cannot even be bothered to stub out your cigarette? You have to finish it? Nice addiction, there.

He asked, didn't he?!? He didn't just lite the fucker up as though it was like poping a breathmint, DID HE? And he's your fucking uncle for gods sakes! I'd make an exception for him, as a little arosol spray (another product that isn't good at all to breath) can work wonders for that.

And you don't smoke so you couldn't say what the fuck you would do in that sittuation. I CAN, having dealt with my father's habit as a teen, the smoke would make me feel ill and dizzy. I even got him to quit, and then he died at sixtynine of heartfailure caused by adema and excess weight after he stopped smoking.

What part of this is unclear? It is unfortuante that your father was a smoker, as it undoubtedly helped to turn you into one. A breathmint isn't going to damage my lungs or stink up the car's interior... And since you're such an expert when it comes to smoking, surely you know how difficult it is to get the stink out? Why should any smoker, ever, impose his or her habit on me, because that person cannot wait? I wouldn't make an exception for my parents (who have never smoked) let alone my uncle. Guess where my brother-in-law goes to smoke when he's over here? Outside. He doesn't even smoke in his own home, because my sister is a non-smoker. At least that is some consideration. And he's been considerate enough from the beginning to never even ask if he could smoke in my home.

You don't know shit, and never have.

I know that smoking is harmful, that it is downright rude to ask to smoke around non-smokers.

When you have to deal with solvents and open paint cans right outside your window, then I might be sympathetic. You have NO idea what real bad air is. Secondly, its a damned plant, so quit throwing the "pollitant" nonesense about. Room deodorisors are more harmfull to the environment then the average cigerette.

There is little if, any, painting outside my apartment. And I don't use room deodorizers because, as far as I am concerned, the needless exposure to the chemicals they contain are more bothersome to me that a little scrubbing of soap and water. I don't cover up the offensive odors in my home. I clean up the source.

I'm not imposing anything on you. The inconsiderate assholes you live with ARE, and they are not representative of every smoker out there. But I guess its just easier to lump us all into a singular group labeled "asshole smokers", I personally don't like being treated as an ethnic group.

Again, to repeat myself, I said and implied "you smokers." I don't know how considerate you are. For all I know you're sunshine and sugarplums. Yet you hardly display such manners here.

There is no defence for not using turnsignals, crossing streets without using crosswalks, drinking frapichinos, eating REDMEAT. People do it however, and isn't just going to stop because you throw up your hands and shout "I DON'T LIKE THIS".

If someone chooses to violate traffic laws by not signaling a turn or by jaywalking, he or she may cause a traffic accident, which is potentially a lot more dangerous, especially in the short term. Such violators should be heavily fined. It has nothing to do with my liking it or not. It's part of something we call "public safety." Those who eat caffeinated drinks such as a frappuccino or that eat red meat are causing little harm to anyone around them, assuming they do so in moderation.

Must I reitterate? I haven't done a god-damned thing to you or anyone else because of my vice which I have every right to enjoy. Where do you get off judging me because you have to deal with some assholes who can't the fucking sign saying:

NON-SMOKING COMMUNITY.

You smokers are most certainly raising the costs for health insurance because of reckless, needlessly destructive behavior with zero health benefit. When a smoker is suffering from lung cancer, heart disease and other ills, who pays to treat that?

Your problem isn't with smokers at all. Its with lazy dipshits who don't respect rules and the letter of the law. It was simply convient to snowball us all together until everyone starts seeing fucking demon horns spouting out our heads.

Thank you for your jack-assery.

You really feel persecuted, don't you? Too bad, you're doing something with no social benefit, seemingly proud of it, and you expect me to sympathize and change my attitudes towards smokers? I have friends that smoke, who are far more intelligent than me, yet they are so deeply addicted that even though they want to quit, they cannot. I have boundless contempt for the tobacco industry and those who continue to willfully profit from such socially damaging products. The first two paragraphs of your rant are example enough for me to have little sympathy for your whining.

[FSTargetDrone]

I'm not imposing anything on you. The inconsiderate assholes you live with ARE, and they are not representative of every smoker out there. But I guess its just easier to lump us all into a singular group labeled "asshole smokers", I personally don't like being treated as an ethnic group.

I just noticed this among the broken tags, but the idea that you would compare smokers to an "ethnic group" is so laughable disingenuous it makes my brain hurt.

And I never used "asshole smokers" anywhere in anything I have ever posted here, or anywhere else, so unless you have some proof that I used such a term, I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I'm not the one using insults.

[Star-Blighter]

Angry, much? I said: "you (or by extension, smokers in general)" Do you understand the distinction?

Do you?

Coffee, soda and fast food can have some (if only negligible) benefits, all if used in moderation. One might argue that chewing gum is good exercise for the jaws. Having fast food every day is detremential to one's health. Having it occasionally is relatively harmless, especially if one exercises and eats other foods aside from fast food. There is zero positive physical benefit to smoking.

Negligable might as well be none, and you are nitpicking. I could easily argue that a single cigarette every two months is relatively harmless as well. You don't see me argueing that though, do you?

And you are most certainly imposing your habit (to clarify, "you smokers") on those of us (including me) who do not. Why should I have to be exposed to your (again, we are talking about "you smokers", so you are clear) harmful secondary smoking because you have to do it around everyone else who does not?

I don't "do it around everyone else who does not" asshole, and I am quite tried of you claiming so.

So because you smokers have to get your nicotine fix to satisfy your (again, "you smokers") right now, you cannot even be bothered to stub out your cigarette? You have to finish it? Nice addiction, there.

Again you lump me in with the worst caricature of your malformed view of smokers. "I" can be bothered to put a cig out on request, many others can't. Do you have some sort of reading comprehension problem?

What part of this is unclear? It is unfortuante that your father was a smoker, as it undoubtedly helped to turn you into one. A breathmint isn't going to damage my lungs or stink up the car's interior... And since you're such an expert when it comes to smoking, surely you know how difficult it is to get the stink out? Why should any smoker, ever, impose his or her habit on me, because that person cannot wait? I wouldn't make an exception for my parents (who have never smoked) let alone my uncle. Guess where my brother-in-law goes to smoke when he's over here? Outside. He doesn't even smoke in his own home, because my sister is a non-smoker. At least that is some consideration. And he's been considerate enough from the beginning to never even ask if he could smoke in my home.

Don't psychoanalyze me, its rude. I started smoking after his death and had a number of years with him after he quit, and I didn't start smoking. On the subject of your uncle, if you have a problem with someone even querying you about any issue, even permission to smoke in your car, then you have a serious problem yourself. Its called having a steel rod up your ass. He DID ask, and unless he lit the cigarette up regardless of your answer, then I am convinced you are simply a dick-head trying to justify your "imposing behavior". I always ask, its polite and gives me valuble info on what behavior is ok and what is not. I ask regardless of whether or not the person is a smoker or non-smoker, and if it isn't ok to smoke in the persons car, thats fine with me. I'm not telepathic and I think its rather arogant of you to expect others to be.

I know that smoking is harmful, that it is downright rude to ask to smoke around non-smokers.

That is patently false as I have asked before if I could smoke on a non-smoking friends property and he didn't mind in the least. What you consider to be rude is not necessarily what everyone considers to be rude, you seem to have a much greater problem with that distinction than I do.

There is little if, any, painting outside my apartment. And I don't use room deodorizers because, as far as I am concerned, the needless exposure to the chemicals they contain are more bothersome to me that a little scrubbing of soap and water. I don't cover up the offensive odors in my home. I clean up the source.

So you fit the archetype of "clean freak". That reveals alot about why you have so much attitude about smokers. I can psychoanalyze too.

Again, to repeat myself, I said and implied "you smokers." I don't know how considerate you are. For all I know you're sunshine and sugarplums. Yet you hardly display such manners here.

So I should be dishonest and say that I have no problem with your ranting about the issue? I'm considerate of others, not a kiss-ass. Learn the difference.

If someone chooses to violate traffic laws by not signaling a turn or by jaywalking, he or she may cause a traffic accident, which is potentially a lot more dangerous, especially in the short term. Such violators should be heavily fined. It has nothing to do with my liking it or not. It's part of something we call "public safety." Those who eat caffeinated drinks such as a frappuccino or that eat red meat are causing little harm to anyone around them, assuming they do so in moderation.

Ilrelevent. My point is that you judge my actions and lifestyle on the fact that I smoke, and choose to claim that I impose something on you because others perform the same habit without any consideration of non-smokers like you. You even went so far as to try an intuite that my father's vice caused me to start smoking, which is just fucking naive and shows quite an ego. It is no different than acusing me of being a drunk driver because I drink rum in the privacy of my own home. Actions, not vices are what determine the merrit of a claim such as yours.

An example of your apperrant kind of thinking: My uncle runs a construction company. He does very good work for fair prices and has good workers, but our neighbors like to spread misinformation by claiming he charges too much and doesn't finsish his jobs. Want to know why that is? The company vehicle he has is an old 82 Ford van with the company Logo on the side and a somewhate shitty paint job.

Thats right. They judge his lifestyle based solely on how polished his ride looks. Such thinking is madness and only reveals the "you must drive a MERCEDES BENZE *fapfapfap* otherwise you aren't worth the clothes you wear" attitude that "imposing" snobs such as you like to proliforate. And don't try and tiptoe around this. My vice may bug the shit out of you but is does not give you the right to judge me because of it. A pack of cigarettes is not a critique on what my values are worth, so get it through your fucked-up head.

You smokers are most certainly raising the costs for health insurance because of reckless, needlessly destructive behavior with zero health benefit. When a smoker is suffering from lung cancer, heart disease and other ills, who pays to treat that?

Apperantly "I" do, just as much as you if not more so. Maybe I simply don't have a problem with shelling a little more in taxes. Nonetheless using insurance costs as a justification for your intolerance of other people's ways is so far removed from your actual life that it borders on the rediculous. You aren't scoring browny points with me.

You really feel persecuted, don't you? Too bad, you're doing something with no social benefit, seemingly proud of it, and you expect me to sympathize and change my attitudes towards smokers? I have friends that smoke, who are far more intelligent than me, yet they are so deeply addicted that even though they want to quit, they cannot. I have boundless contempt for the tobacco industry and those who continue to willfully profit from such socially damaging products. The first two paragraphs of your rant are example enough for me to have little sympathy for your whining.

Did you even read the first page of this thread?!? Whats there not to feel persecuted about? Oh, thats right. Your a non-smoker, so it doesn't apply to you, and that makes it JUST FUCKING DANDY, doesn't it?
*dripping sarcasm*

I don't expect anything of you, except maybe to get fucked by a potato covered in razor blades, since lack of empathy works two ways if you really want to get nasty about it. I smoke, am going to smoke, and will continue to do so until you provoke me into curbstomping you when you walk into my house and try to rip my cigarette from my mouth, after which I should "hot-box" you out of pure contempt for your self-rightious criticism of anything and everything that offends your delicate, placid sensibilities.

Go get cancer, you need a dose.

[Star-Blighter]

I just noticed this among the broken tags, but the idea that you would compare smokers to an "ethnic group" is so laughable disingenuous it makes my brain hurt.

About time you got fucking headache, thats all your arguements been for me.

And I never used "asshole smokers" anywhere in anything I have ever posted here, or anywhere else, so unless you have some proof that I used such a term, I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I'm not the one using insults.

So? The quote was not of you but a generalisation of your quite clear opinion of all smokers everywhere. Noone had to put that in your mouth, it was already there. And go re-read the board rules, the number of times I say fuck doesn't make my opinion anyless valid, but its very easy to harp on something as mundane as langauge when you don't like what you hear.

[Darth Lucifer]

...how does a cig compare to the amount of carbon monoxide produced through combustion in cars every minute?

I'll concede one cigarette has less toxins than an automobile engine. Doesn't mean it's not harmful anyway.

Are refering to second hand smoke and it's affect on those who breath it?

You cited other harmful things; fast food, pop, coffee, etc. But unlike these things, Cigarettes affect more than just the primary user; second-hand smoke.

...This begs the question of where one draws the line and whether a line should be drawn in the first place.

Where one decides to draw their lines with their own bodies is their business. However, the moment one begins to drag other non-willing participants across said line is when it becomes unfair.

[FSTargetDrone]

Negligable might as well be none, and you are nitpicking. I could easily argue that a single cigarette every two months is relatively harmless as well. You don't see me argueing that though, do you?

I really have no idea what you're arguing. You came in here whining about the "stigma" of non-smokers' negative attitudes towards smokers, that we see ourselves as "superior," that you wish to methaphorically throw full ashtrays in our faces because we make you feel marginalized. That we act "holier than thou" be criticizing such unhealthy lifestyles as you yourself readily admitted to living (i.e., a smoker), that smokers might as well be compared to "slave-labor," that we non-smokers are "Fucking elitist health-nut pricks, every single fucking one of you."

Do you really expect to find sympathy when you are challenged on such statements? Did you not think someone would find your outlandish claims of persecution in anyway defensible?

It's so awful, non-smokers might expect and hope that those who do smoke would please not exhale your carcinogen-laden breath in our general direction?

I don't "do it around everyone else who does not" asshole, and I am quite tried of you claiming so.

Great, wonderful. Kudos to you. You're a model of civil behavior.

Again you lump me in with the worst caricature of your malformed view of smokers. "I" can be bothered to put a cig out on request, many others can't. Do you have some sort of reading comprehension problem?

I have a problem with whiny smokers who complain that they are marginalized because they smoke. You yourself said, "You light one, smoke it, ash it when its done and later in the day light another if your feeling a little high-strung. When one is down to the last smoke, they don't take kindly to you asking them to just toss it in trash-can."

Do you expect me to find this agreeable? Why should I care that a nicotine addict might have to waste his or her last cigarette because he or she is smoking in a public place where smoking isn't even permitted in the first place?

Don't psychoanalyze me, its rude. I started smoking after his death and had a number of years with him after he quit, and I didn't start smoking. On the subject of your uncle, if you have a problem with someone even querying you about any issue, even permission to smoke in your car, then you have a serious problem yourself. Its called having a steel rod up your ass. He DID ask, and unless he lit the cigarette up regardless of your answer, then I am convinced you are simply a dick-head trying to justify your "imposing behavior". I always ask, its polite and gives me valuble info on what behavior is ok and what is not. I ask regardless of whether or not the person is a smoker or non-smoker, and if it isn't ok to smoke in the persons car, thats fine with me. I'm not telepathic and I think its rather arogant of you to expect others to be.

You are fortunate to have had the extra time. But I don't care why you smoke. It's wholly irrelevant. I just hope you're able to quit someday. Every time you buy more cigarettes you are feeding the beast that's killing you. I don't hate smokers. I hate that they smoke. I don't have a problem with people asking me to do anything in the car, change the radio, roll down the window, take off shoes. I DO have a problem with such people asking to smoke. Period. It's troublesome to me that people who are otherwise intelligent can be so enslaved to such an addiction. But you are going to have to realize that people who do not smoke are probably not going to want smokers lighting up in their homes or cars. The arrogance comes when you even think otherwise, by asking at all.

That is patently false as I have asked before if I could smoke on a non-smoking friends property and he didn't mind in the least. What you consider to be rude is not necessarily what everyone considers to be rude, you seem to have a much greater problem with that distinction than I do.

You don't find it rude to subject your friends to your smoking? Okay, then we most certainly DO have different distinctions of rudeness.

So you fit the archetype of "clean freak". That reveals alot about why you have so much attitude about smokers. I can psychoanalyze too.

Not quite the clean freak, as my computer room is quite messy. Lots of stacked boxes and books on the floor. Some dirty laundry on the bedroom floor I haven't gotten around to collecting yet. Dishes in the sink that need washing. Not quite the same as tobacco smoke or paint fumes, though.

Ilrelevent. My point is that you judge my actions and lifestyle on the fact that I smoke, and choose to claim that I impose something on you because others perform the same habit without any consideration of non-smokers like you. You even went so far as to try an intuite that my father's vice caused me to start smoking, which is just fucking naive and shows quite an ego. It is no different than acusing me of being a drunk driver because I drink rum in the privacy of my own home. Actions, not vices are what determine the merrit of a claim such as yours.

Do you honestly think that a parent who smokes is not going to have an influence on his or her child's chances of smoking?

Thats right. They judge his lifestyle based solely on how polished his ride looks. Such thinking is madness and only reveals the "you must drive a MERCEDES BENZE *fapfapfap* otherwise you aren't worth the clothes you wear" attitude that "imposing" snobs such as you like to proliforate. And don't try and tiptoe around this. My vice may bug the shit out of you but is does not give you the right to judge me because of it. A pack of cigarettes is not a critique on what my values are worth, so get it through your fucked-up head.

I have no doubt that smokers can be good people. I never claimed otherwise. My argument is that the moment they start lighting up around non-smokers, they are imposing an unhealthy environment around those non-smokers. I have friends to smoke. Friends who I care for deeply, who enrich my life in ways I can't even describe. Which makes it all the more distressing that they are doing something to themselves which is adversely impacting their lives.

Apperantly "I" do, just as much as you if not more so. Maybe I simply don't have a problem with shelling a little more in taxes. Nonetheless using insurance costs as a justification for your intolerance of other people's ways is so far removed from your actual life that it borders on the rediculous. You aren't scoring browny points with me.

So now we are looking to score points? What is this, highschool? The fact is that unhealthy behavior by some people, whether it be driving without a seatbelt, not using a motorcycle helmet, driving reckelessly, eating to unhealthy degrees, excessive drinking, drug use, and smoking, all of those things are a burden on the health care costs. Why do you think some employers are trying to impose non-smoking on their own employees? Think it's to score brownie points? No, it's not about that, it's not about marginalizing the smoking employees, nor is it to make them feel bad about themselves. Such employers have decided that the increased health-care costs for medical insurance are adversely affecting the company. Some of them even want to do what amounts to drug testing to make sure that the employees they hire do not smoke, even outside work!

Did you even read the first page of this thread?!? Whats there not to feel persecuted about? Oh, thats right. Your a non-smoker, so it doesn't apply to you, and that makes it JUST FUCKING DANDY, doesn't it?
*dripping sarcasm*

See above. You started this by complaining that us non-smokers make you feel bad.

I don't expect anything of you, except maybe to get fucked by a potato covered in razor blades, since lack of empathy works two ways if you really want to get nasty about it. I smoke, am going to smoke, and will continue to do so until you provoke me into curbstomping you when you walk into my house and try to rip my cigarette from my mouth, after which I should "hot-box" you out of pure contempt for your self-rightious criticism of anything and everything that offends your delicate, placid sensibilities.

I don't care if you choose to recycle the razor blade-festooned potato rape fantasy you seems to enjoy, but making what could be construed as a physical threat towards me ("curbstomping you" if I were to come into your home) is not something to be undertaken lightly. If you think you are going to scare me or cause me to back down here by using increasingly violent language, you are mistaken. I am about as afraid of your tough talk as I am of getting brained by a meteor this afternoon.

Go get cancer, you need a dose.

And yet, I do not wish the same to you. I hope you quit smoking before you find yourself using a respirator, painfully wheezing as you cough up bits of blood and dying an agonizing death that is largely preventable. Don't let that happen. Stop now, before it is too late.

FSTargetDrone wrote:

I just noticed this among the broken tags, but the idea that you would compare smokers to an "ethnic group" is so laughable disingenuous it makes my brain hurt.

About time you got fucking headache, thats all your arguements been for me.

No, please, I want to hear more about the comparison to the hell various ethnic groups have suffered. Non-smokers' pissy attitudes towards smokers is just like rampant racism, is that what you meant to claim?

And I never used "asshole smokers" anywhere in anything I have ever posted here, or anywhere else, so unless you have some proof that I used such a term, I'd appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I'm not the one using insults.

So? The quote was not of you but a generalisation of your quite clear opinion of all smokers everywhere. Noone had to put that in your mouth, it was already there. And go re-read the board rules, the number of times I say fuck doesn't make my opinion anyless valid, but its very easy to harp on something as mundane as langauge when you don't like what you hear.

I don't care that you use insults or lace your posts with strings of profanity. Some of them are quite entertaining. You can type "fuck" every other word for all I care. But when the bulk of your replies degenerate into little more than increasingly dull ways of attempting to insult me, and then the questionable use of a threat towards me, you are not arguing anything at all.

[Darth Wong]

An example of your apperrant kind of thinking: My uncle runs a construction company. He does very good work for fair prices and has good workers, but our neighbors like to spread misinformation by claiming he charges too much and doesn't finsish his jobs. Want to know why that is? The company vehicle he has is an old 82 Ford van with the company Logo on the side and a somewhate shitty paint job.

Thats right. They judge his lifestyle based solely on how polished his ride looks. Such thinking is madness and only reveals the "you must drive a MERCEDES BENZE *fapfapfap* otherwise you aren't worth the clothes you wear" attitude that "imposing" snobs such as you like to proliforate. And don't try and tiptoe around this. My vice may bug the shit out of you but is does not give you the right to judge me because of it. A pack of cigarettes is not a critique on what my values are worth, so get it through your fucked-up head.

I'll bet you thought that was a really compelling argument, rather than an obvious false analogy fallacy.

Let's go over this basic stupidity again:

Step 1: Somebody says that activity A is inconsiderate.
Step 2: Somebody else says "Hey, I do activity A!"
Step 3: People ask what difference that makes.
Step 4: The activity A person argues that you can't judge an entire person's character by one thing he does.
Step 5: People point out that they're not doing that; they're just judging that one thing he does.
Step 6: Repeat step 4.
Step 7: Repeat step 5.
Step 8: Repeat step 4.
Step 9: Repeat step 5.

Ad nauseum. Grow the fuck up; you can't defend a jackass behaviour with red-herrings.

[Mr. Coffee]

I'm a smoker. But I'm a polite smoker. I don't toss my butts out the window. Instead, I take a disposable cup, fill it a 1/4 of the way with water, and dispose of my butt in that. When I stop at a gas station to fill the tank, I toss the cup o' butts in the trash and get a new cup. I do this mainly because when my one of my crews is finsihed installing a job, I have to inspect the work site and make sure that no trash is left behind. That includes scrap flooring, food wrapers, soda cans, and... Cigarette Butts! Some of the firms I contract with will fine my company for leaving trash behind. So I make sure my crews don't litter and I try to sent an example for them by not littering myself.

[Mrs Kendall]

Just out of curiousity, does anyone else get tired of watching assholes throw cigarette butts out of their cars and onto the ground? Do they think that somehow butts don't qualify as litter?

This topic infuriates me too. Yes, of course it's fucking litter! Stupid assholes.

I just voted in that poll, only to realise it was 2 years old Sorry!

Haha I just did the same thing..

As for the topic.. I don't think I've posted in this thread yet...

I used to smoke when I was a teenager and I always threw my butts on the road, never threw them out the window of a car due to fear of starting a fire or something but I was inconsiderate back then as I was only a teenager, same situation as Impy there. I just recently quit smoking in the last year (been a non smoker for about 18 months) but when I did I threw my butts in the garbage or down my toilet. I tried not to throw them on the ground, but I rarely ever smoked anywhere but my own backyard where I had an ash tray that I could just dump in my garbage. One thing I really hate now and always have is butts on the beach, kids play in that sand and it's just revolting when you're building a sandcastle with your kids and you find some while digging. That just happened to me yesterday.

Now that I'm a non smoker I'm much less understanding of why people are so lazy to keep them and throw them out as soon as they get home.
Like I said when I used to smoke 18 months ago if I ever had one in the car it would be when the kids were not in the car and I always had a can in there to stick my butt in. But again that happened very rarely, I would wait till we got home to smoke so I didn't have to hang on to old stinky butts. I also hated smoking in front of my kids or around them too so I did everything I could to avoid that no matter how strong my cravings got.