Transporter Reliability Myths

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 10:21pm

Spanky The Dolphin: Quote what you couldnt understand and I will explain it to you.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-07-17 10:27pm

50-75% of all of your posts.

I can uderstand them, but I have to re-read them to do so.

LMSx · Post by **LMSx** » 2002-07-17 10:32pm

In the gravimetric monstrosity of technical info known as Star By Star, there's a specific mention of subspace communications in reference to starships.

Hyperspace Comm, or Hypercomm, is much more expensive and noteworthy then subspace comm. The Emperor's communication with Darth Vader in ESB was a hypercomm, (immediate) but Darth Vader telling the fleet to move into the asteriod belt was a subspace comm.

I think. Star by Star is the first mention of subspace outside of WEG, so I'm applying new knowledge on current knowledge.

Also, how common is this technology?

Finally, how is a Federation ship going to tow and transport a huge block of parsteel? The block of material needs to be small enough to be transported easily, and good luck finding the docking bay of the ISD. It doesn't matter if the transporter can move below the shields in subspace, if the TO doesn't have a solid lock on the Star Destroyer through jamming, how is it going to transport it?

Yes, they could transport randomly, but the odds are astronomically low that the block will even touch the Star Destroyer. (Think of randomly hitting a 15,000m target in a space the size of Earth with a spitball, blind, and you'll see the difficulty)

Besides, it's just as likely that as soon as the Fed ship jumps out of warp, it's annihilated by the HTLs, destroying the technology.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 10:33pm

Just thought I would say that if you dont want to make a public apology for calling me a chicken and a liar, oh and also saying I have no idea about what im saying you can pm me.
/sarcasm off

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 10:40pm

LMSx: Those would be tactical problems not problems with the tech which is the purpose of this thread.

However parsteel isnt necessary, a torp will do or some other explosive (the heavy explosive from DS9 prehaps?)

Also a shuttle has been transported before so transportesr can transport a large amount of matter.

Blind transport - getting instead hte ship wouldnt be a problem simply observe the ship, getting it niside intact may be a problem but using an open space like the hangar would be the best bet.

The technology takes less than a day to construct and only requires a transporter and a subspace coil (basically ever ship and probably most colonies).

Anarchist Bunny · Post by **Anarchist Bunny** » 2002-07-17 10:41pm

Won't you be surprised when that bomb/parsteel ends up on the bridge of the ship that sent it.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 10:43pm

anarchistbunny: ??

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-17 10:45pm

The point of this thread became tactical when that IDIOTIC EXCUSE FOR AN IDEA WAS POSTED. It also became tactical when everyone realized that your technology would not work the way that you trekkies are saying that it would. You are now arguing about the material that you would transport, when it has become abundantly clear that the transporter would not be able to function near an ISD, anyway. Why do you insist on posting such idiotic corrections for tactics which were already dealt with?

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-07-17 10:47pm

TheDarkling wrote:"subspace has an infinate number of domains its like a huge honey comb with an infinate number of cells" - Geordi.

"something from that deep in subspace" - Geordi

The above would indicate that either subspace isnt the same in both verses or that the SW only uses one as you point out a normal radio signal doesnt have depth.

Wow. All I see there is that subspace is a multilayered set of dimensions. I do not see Geordi say 'The Galactic Empire can't scan that deep...' or 'Don't worry, that ISD can't scan beyond our communications channels' or 'You know, while the Galactic Empire was beating our asses, we could hide in a domain of subspace below their scanners to delay the inevitable'.

Perhaps you could show me your Trekkie decoder ring.

LMSx · Post by **LMSx** » 2002-07-17 10:47pm

Thanks, about the construction.

But I thought that transporters needed a clean lock in the transporter console, not just

"Computer! See that cheese wedge?"

"AIM AND DESTROY!"

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-07-17 10:48pm

He means that if the object is sent blindly to the target, it could reflect off the shields and materialise at a random location on the sender ship (or more likely into open space, due to probability.)

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 10:50pm

Master of Ossus: That was alot of bluster do you actually have a point or did you just want to disagree and knowing that you cant prove me wrong (others may) you simply complain.

Why wouldnt it work, please I wish to hear?

Why wouldnt it work in the way I said, please do tell

Why is it idiotic ?

Please explain instead of stating.

I have not been correcting tactics I posted on tech however because someone asked what tactics could be employed so I answered.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-17 10:51pm

I have never yet seen a transporter function without precise sensor readings on a given area or location. You can't just beam something randomly in the hopes of sending something to the one place where it needs to be. What would happen if FedEx tried to do that?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 10:55pm

SirNitram: Yes multilayered which people said it wasnt.
I have already proved that jammers dont work - I was explaining why.
I dont believe they can hide in subspace since we havent seen it.

The noly conclusion is subspace isnt the same in both or that the lower subspace realms are the only ones close enough to real space to be useful as coms or scanners.

You cant be convinced because you Dont want to be - theres no way you believe anything federation could overcome anything empire.

LMSx: Descent Part 1: they couldnt scan the surface of the planet but they could beam down.

Spanky The Dolphin: Well I wish he would of explained why he thinks that would happen.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 10:56pm

Master of Ossus: See above - it has happened, prehaps you dont know trek that well afterall?

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-17 10:57pm

Your stupid tactic (yes, it is still stupid) would not work because ISD's CAN jam subspace scanners/transporters. There is still little or no evidence that even if an ISD could not do that the subspace transporter could penetrate an ISD's shields, and even if the shields were down and the jammers not on there is no positive evidence that SF sensors would be able to operate around an ISD (with the problems that an ISD naturally creates, like radiation). It would probably not work the way you trekkies are stressing because in order for it to do so the subspace transporter would have to overcome several technical problems that no ST technology in the past has been able to do. Your idea is idiotic because it relies on a number of unlikely unknown variables, because even if it did work the damage it would inflict would be minimal, and because you have still not managed to explain to anyone's satisfaction how the subspace transporter would be able to dodge an ISD's systems.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 11:04pm

No it cant block subtrans - see previous posts.
Yes there is evidence it could penetrate them due to parity- see previous posts.
No - you cant prove natural radiation block transporters, sensors yes - transporters no.
Technical problems such as?
Ah well the damage it would cause is not under question however a 64 MT blast in a hangar would do some damage.
I have explained how it gets past those systems.

You basically say, it wont work, it wont work, even if it does it wont do any damage, it wont work.

You are simply ignoring evidence and thus I cant help you.[/quote]

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-17 11:05pm

Okay, let's say that jammers only work for the "least deep" levels of subspace (as you were saying, Darkling). Now, how do you know that the subspace transporters operate on "deeper" levels of it? Do you just assume that they do because you don't understand the magic behind the technology, or do you actually have a reasonable idea of which level the subspace transporters operate on? As for your "proof" that jammers don't work, it consisted of saying that there are lots of levels of subspace. There are infinitely many frequencies of radiowaves, but it is possible to jam them all at once by cranking out "white sound" through every channel. You have demonstrated nothing, Darkling, but assumed much, a habit which you are getting into.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-17 11:06pm

And you can transport without using sensors exactly....how?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 11:10pm

Transporting without sensors has been done - Descent part 1.

ST jammers dont work aganist subspace, so why would SW?
I have explained why I think the above happens.
Do I have proof of it using a deeper subspace level? no im just using the evidence at hand to come up with a way to explain what I see.

If it uses the same subspace level (unlikely) it still cant be blocked because ST cant block it.

I have assumed nothing - I have applied reasoning and an acceptance of parity between techs.

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-07-17 11:15pm

TheDarkling wrote:Transporting without sensors has been done - Descent part 1.

ST jammers dont work aganist subspace, so why would SW?
I have explained why I think the above happens.
Do I have proof of it using a deeper subspace level? no im just using the evidence at hand to come up with a way to explain what I see.

If it uses the same subspace level (unlikely) it still cant be blocked because ST cant block it.

I have assumed nothing - I have applied reasoning and an acceptance of parity between techs.

Oh, I see. Let's move on to something more important. Are you trying to say that because ST ships cannot block blasts of several Gigatons, SW ships cannot, either? Are you trying to tell me that subspace trasnport would have to work until it is proven that it cannot work?

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 11:24pm

No not at all if I had seen something that makes me think subspace transporters wouldnt work i would say so.

The feds shields are know (roughly) therefore we know what a gigaton blast would do.

All I am saying is the following.

ST Can block comms. So can SW
ST can block sensors so can SW.
ST cant block Subtrans.

Thus there is no link between Sub comms blocking and subtrans blocking.

NowI would say that ST knows more about subspace since SW barely uses so since ST couldnt come up with a way to block it (being experts on both subspace and transporters) and since we know of nothing that the empire uses that isnt comms or sensor jamming (and rememer these measure dont work) it would seem the imps dont have anything htat could block it.

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-07-17 11:31pm

How often has Starfleet used subspace transporters, anyway?

As far as I know, it was only once, and the Ent-D had to modify it's transporters to do it.

TheDarkling · Post by **TheDarkling** » 2002-07-17 11:34pm

Spanky The Dolphin:
It was used once by some terrorists.
It was used by a Ferengi ship.
It was used by the E-D.
It is believed that Dominion transporters on subspace based (this is not know for certain however there are some similar effects)

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2002-07-17 11:43pm

So, that's only once by the Federation or Starfleet. Ever. In 2370.

That's all I needed to know.