The real (best approximation) size of the Imperial Starfleet

Aaron2 · Post by **Aaron2** » 2002-09-02 02:08pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:This is not absurd. In fact, this is realistic if you look at the fuckin' Death Star II!
This is canon evidence for the Imperial industrial capability,

The Death Star II could possibly be consuming the majority of the Imperial budget. We have no canonical evidence to suggest that it does not. Building this Death Star was an ellaborate scheme, conceived by the Emperor himself, to trap the rebels (esp Luke). Its not just some insignificant part of a huge ship building program.

...but you simply ignore it and try to sell us completely unrealistic fleet estimates with so few ships they wouldn't even suffice to hold together a few sectors, not to speak of the friggin' galaxy!

Why do you assume that a massive, million ship fleet is needed to maintain the galaxy? Judging by the pathetic size of the rebel alliance, the overwhelming majority of galactic citizens must be loyal to the Empire. Loyal citizens don't require ISDs.

Aaron

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2002-09-02 02:10pm

The canonical evidence that the DSII did not take up a significant number of their resources is the fact that it was constructed in secret. Had it consumed enormous resources, the disparity between industrial output from one month or year to the next would have been easily noticeable.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-02 02:35pm

Aaron2 wrote:The Death Star II could possibly be consuming the majority of the Imperial budget. We have no canonical evidence to suggest that it does not.

We have evidence that it did not.
1) Iy was secret
2) The resource drain was so small as not to be noticed
3) The only reason they found out about it was because the Emperor let them

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-02 02:36pm

In the novel Shadows of the Empire we learn that the Black Sun crime syndicate is supplying the Empire the most of their resources for the DS2 construction project.
That a crime syndicate can field that many ships and resources is just indicative of the size and scope of the SW galaxy.

starfury · Post by **starfury** » 2002-09-02 02:41pm

If you really want to be cruel you could use Marina's estimate

yep, hell why not let her come here and stick the full might of the imperial forces to these trekkies, I haven't seen her for a while and I really missed her.

Aaron2 · Post by **Aaron2** » 2002-09-02 03:02pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Aaron2 wrote:The Death Star II could possibly be consuming the majority of the Imperial budget. We have no canonical evidence to suggest that it does not.
We have evidence that it did not.
1) Iy was secret
2) The resource drain was so small as not to be noticed
3) The only reason they found out about it was because the Emperor let them

Palpy: "It was I who allowed the Alliance to
know the location of the shield generator."

Mothma: "The data brought to us by the Bothan spies pinpoints the exact location of the Emperor's new battle station."

The construction of the DSII was not a secret, only its "exact location". This isn't suprising considering how difficult it is to track through hyperspace (generally requiring a homing device). A massive convoy could essentially disappear and arrive almost anywhere in the galaxy a few hours later with no one knowing where they went.

As to the "resource drain" being noticed, this assumes that the rebels had access to imperial accounting data in the first place.

Aaron

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-09-02 03:31pm

And what leads you to the conclusion that it wasn't Palp who allowed the Rebels to know of the DS II in the first place?
Mind you he set up a trap for them there, and he was also able to tell them the main weapon was not yet finished.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-02 03:36pm

Aaron2 wrote:Palpy: "It was I who allowed the Alliance to
know the location of the shield generator."

Mothma: "The data brought to us by the Bothan spies pinpoints the exact location of the Emperor's new battle station."

What nice semantic skills you have, incase you thought you fooled anyone with that, let me remind you that the data brought to them by bothan spies covered both the location and shield generator.

Trying to over-interprept words and sentences to twist them is not going to earn you any points.

The construction of the DSII was not a secret

It was a secret from anyone but rebel high command.
Neither the general public nor anywhere else in the imperial goverment was any resource drain noticed, becayse it was so small ofcourse.

The first Deathstar was also secret and only a few rebel spies learned of it, no one in "imperial accounting" or anything like that noted any resource drain.

As to the "resource drain" being noticed, this assumes that the rebels had access to imperial accounting data in the first place.

It wasn't, since it wasn't really any resource drain, this has already been confirmed and written into official SW evidence.
And the rebels had spies everywhere, something as simple as accounting data would have been easily noted, but the Empire had no trouble disguising the DS2 resource drain as something else.

More proof of the TRUE size and scope of the SW galaxy:

"The galaxy is vast, and so, too is the Empire which enshrouds and encompasses it. Countless beings on numerous worlds are in thrall to the Empire, and precious few have the stomach to do anything about it. The people of the galaxy are terrified, and understandably so,

Recently, the might of the Empire has grown with frightening speed. Since the destruction of the Death Star, the Emperor has shifted the focus of his limitless military and industrial power almost exclusively toward crushing this upstart Rebellion; as a result, the Imperial Armed Forces have nearly doubled in strength."

(ref: Rebel Alliance Sourcebook)

The fleet at ANH had more firepower than the Deathstar, for it to have doubled, you figure it out...

"It was likely that the Emperor would use every means at his disposal to destroy the Rebels. Even before the Death Star, he had more than enough firepower to wipe out whole planets. Many, many people were going to die, and often the Alliance would have to just let it happen."

(ref: Rebel Alliance Sourcebook)

Pg. 11: "the death star project...into which the Empire poured resources enough to have formed a score of sector groups"

(ref: Imperial Handbook)

The resources required to build the DS where equal to a score of sector groups, thats interesting, given how much material the DS reqiured...
Just how big are the sector groups then....
whoa thats a lot of ships or firepower!

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-09-02 03:53pm

There's a direct quote from Tarkin in the ANH novelisation about the million systems of the empire as well. I think with a million systems, probably more by the time of ANH, they could easily construct something like the death star and hide it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-02 04:03pm

I have to respond to the lunacy being presented by the rapid supporters of the Empire. If the Black Sun crime syndicate had to supply the Empire with the materials needed to build the DSII then that obviously would show that the Empire did not have the resources to do the job themselves. Why would they bring in an outside criminal organziation if it weren't absolutely necessary. That just shows how silly the EU is anyways.

Furthermore, how the hell do you assume that Dodonna's statement in ANH shows that the entire Starfleet had greater firepower than the Death Star? You guys twist statements worse than RELIGIOUS FANATICS. Dodonna said that the DS had a power greater than half the Starfleet. That statement does not = the entire Starfleet is greater than the DS. That just literally means that the DS was more powerful than half of the starfleet. You can't use his statement to determine the power of the starfleet in relation to the DS. Also, nobody seems to remember the Imperial Commander on the DS who said that the DS was the ultimate "power in the UNIVERSE". The Imperial Commander was speaking in large terms here. If a second before this he said that the Rebels were a threat to "your Starfleet" the DS must have been greater than anything else the Imperials had. Even the entire Starfleet was not match for the firepower of the DS. When you combine Han Solo's statement, the Imperial Commander's statement, and Dodonna's statement there is no contradiction. It is clear that the DS was the most poweful force in the Star Wars Galaxy. Much greater than the entire Starfleet.

Han Solo's statement is really important here. Han Solo lives in the Star Wars Galaxy. He even (according to some EU sources) was in the Imperial Military. He has flown across the galaxy several times. He has been chased by Star Destroyers (Cruisers) . He would know approximately how many warships the Empire would reasonably have. He may have been off by a few thousand, but certainly not MILLIONS! Like I have said before, the EU continues to expand the size of the Empire in order to keep on making new books, etc...

Aaron2 · Post by **Aaron2** » 2002-09-02 04:35pm

His Divine Shadow wrote:
Aaron2 wrote:Palpy: "It was I who allowed the Alliance to
know the location of the shield generator."

Mothma: "The data brought to us by the Bothan spies pinpoints the exact location of the Emperor's new battle station."
What nice semantic skills you have, incase you thought you fooled anyone with that, let me remind you that the data brought to them by bothan spies covered both the location and shield generator.

Trying to over-interprept words and sentences to twist them is not going to earn you any points.

Huh? I'm not playing semantic games. I'm just providing quotes to back up my claims. Notice that when Mon Mothma begins talking, she never mentions that they discovered a new death star, only that she now knows its "exact location".

Please provide one canonical quote that the entire project was secret, not just its location.

More proof of the TRUE size and scope of the SW galaxy:

I'm well aware of the size and scope of the galaxy. I'm mearly debating the percentage of the galactice ecomomy that the Empire controls. What is the Imperial tax rate? What percentage of the Imperial budget is spent on the military? These questions can't be answered by saying "there are millions of planets in the Empire."

Looking at the end of ROTJ SE, it shows that the entire Imperial military is -incapable- of maintaining control without the emperor. Therefore, the number of starships needed to maintain control of a mulit-million planet galaxy is irrelevent since the Empire clearly does not possess that many ships. The speed and totality of the Empire's collapse would indicate that he had significantly fewer ships than was needed.

One final note about Dondonna's firepower quote. He was talking about the Death Stars anti-ship defenses, this firepower was related to the number and strength of the turbolasers protecting the DS, not the raw power output of the ship's main weapon.

Aaron

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-09-02 04:39pm

I have to respond to the lunacy being presented by the rapid supporters of the Empire. If the Black Sun crime syndicate had to supply the Empire with the materials needed to build the DSII then that obviously would show that the Empire did not have the resources to do the job themselves. Why would they bring in an outside criminal organziation if it weren't absolutely necessary. That just shows how silly the EU is anyways.

Way to miss the point. They used Black Sun because of the lower chance of rebel spies catching them.

And I'm pretty sure that Black Sun only supplied shipping not the actual construction material but it's been a while since I read that book.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-02 04:49pm

Idiots in action fokes, Not only can they misteript quotes to fit thier pesudo-logic theorys they think one demostrate doth the fall of the Empire make

Besides we already know from Tarkin that the Empire was well in hand to survive the fall of the Emperor(*Regional control has been turned over to governers or do you forget AHN when Papy dissolved the Senate)

Heres a very modern anaology, When the Emperor(Emperor Bush lets say) decides tommrow to disslove the House and Senate and he is all-powerful, how you would say would the conuntry survive? Simple the local STATE(Ala Reigions/Sectors) now have direct control over thier states so each is free to manage itself and yet still have the Strong Imperal Navy on hand to chase off everything from Smugglers and the Ssi-Ruki to the Vong in thirty years

In esssance, Papy did what the American South Always wanted, Strong states with thier own Armys plus a grand over-all state Army on top of that(The Imperal Navy)(The Fleet being their Version of the Local National Guard
Just with ISDs :twisted)

But them I'm talking to someone who thinks that even though Lucus-arts checks and aproves every SW book over before its published and despite the fact they are considered Cannon, You just want to fling that out the window don't you

Why stop there, HELL Lets Say unless Lucus directly Says it its not Cannon, Well since he had help on the scripts that means all of the EU AND the Movies are not Cannon, Hell that just leaves us the personal interviews doesn't it? And we can't use the Radio Dramas cause he had no speaking parts in that

As I've made the comprasion before thats like throwing away all Evidance on Paper(Be it Physical Evidance or Signed Conffesions) in a murder trial just because the Judge feels like it

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-02 04:55pm

It's the idiots like Mr. Bean that fail to realize what is going on in the movies. Does anyone remember how surprised the Imperial commanders were when they heard the Senate had been dissolved?? Did anyone catch how the Emperor planned on maintaining control of the galaxy?! Fear will keep them in line, fear of THIS battlestation!!!! The DS was how Palpatine planned on keeping control. Let us think about this for a few seconds... The Emperor needed the DS to maintain control. He lost the first one, and then the second one. Without those DS's and himself the Empire was not able to control the galaxy!!

Akm72 · Post by **Akm72** » 2002-09-02 05:13pm

Commander LeoRo wrote:...If the Black Sun crime syndicate had to supply the Empire with the materials needed to build the DSII then that obviously would show that the Empire did not have the resources to do the job themselves..<snip>..That just shows how silly the EU is anyways.

I agree that the whole EU 'Black Sun' thing sucks arse and is also very, very silly. But...

Commander LeoRo wrote:Furthermore, how the hell do you assume that Dodonna's statement in ANH shows that the entire Starfleet had greater firepower than the Death Star? You guys twist statements worse than RELIGIOUS FANATICS. Dodonna said that the DS had a power greater than half the Starfleet. That statement does not = the entire Starfleet is greater than the DS. That just literally means that the DS was more powerful than half of the starfleet. You can't use his statement to determine the power of the starfleet in relation to the DS.

I've got to seriously disagree with this bit, Dodonna is giving a military briefing, when he says that the DS1 has firepower greater than half the starfleet - that's exactly what he means. Trying to twist his words to mean anything else is...well...quite strange.

Commander LeoRo wrote: When you combine Han Solo's statement, the Imperial Commander's statement, and Dodonna's statement there is no contradiction. It is clear that the DS was the most poweful force in the Star Wars Galaxy. Much greater than the entire Starfleet.

Han Solo's statement is really important here. Han Solo lives in the Star Wars Galaxy. He even (according to some EU sources) was in the Imperial Military. He has flown across the galaxy several times. He has been chased by Star Destroyers (Cruisers) . He would know approximately how many warships the Empire would reasonably have. He may have been off by a few thousand, but certainly not MILLIONS! Like I have said before, the EU continues to expand the size of the Empire in order to keep on making new books, etc...

There is an easier way to make all the statments make make sence;
MOTTI: 'This station is now the ultimate power in the universe.'
HAN: 'The entire starfleet couldn't destroy the whole planet.'
HAN: 'It'd take a thousand ships with more fire power than I've...'
DODONNA: 'The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet. '

Motti is quite correct that the DS is the ultimate power, as the Imperial Starfleet is incapable of bringing together so much firepower in one place. Not because they don't have the ships, but because those ships are BUSY.
Han also knows it is impossible for starfleet to bring that many ships together - so neither Han or Motti are contradicting Dodonna.
But Han does know that a thousand ships COULD do it, but they would have to unusually big and powerful ('...more fire power than I've ever seen' is probably what he was going to say). This is quite interesting as it indicates the level of firepower available to Starfleets biggest battleships.
Dodonna is being quite factual when he says that the DS has more firepower than half the starfleet - what else could he possibly mean?
There is no contradiction here, unless you really want to find one.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-09-02 05:14pm

Did anyone catch how the Emperor planned on maintaining control of the galaxy?! Fear will keep them in line, fear of THIS battlestation!!!! The DS was how Palpatine planned on keeping control. Let us think about this for a few seconds... The Emperor needed the DS to maintain control. He lost the first one, and then the second one. Without those DS's and himself the Empire was not able to control the galaxy!!

*Sigh
Your realy not getting the point, Did Papy say that? No he did not who said it? An Imperal Commander, If you notice most of the Imperal High Command Though the DS (Let alone the second one) was a bad idea and a waste of reasouces(Which they where proven mostly right)

And lets re-exame what you said

Let us think about this for a few seconds... The Emperor needed the DS to maintain control. He lost the first one, and then the second one

What did he say during three years between number 1 and number 2, Please don't overthrow me?

Seriously this does not require a degree in anything to figure out but prehaps your catagorical Refusual to see evidance right in front of your face and discard anything that counter-acts what your position no matter what way it affects it does require a bit of Psychoanlitical know-how

Why LeoRoy do you refuse to see the facts right in front of your face? Is it some psycholical need of attention? Where your droped down a flight of stairs as a young child and just don't know any better?

Its quite obvious short of a phone-call strait from Lucus himself say shut the fuck up you dumb wanker your not going to let go of this and I ask you why?

Does the blinding light of the obvious burn you? Are you that blind to what is right infront of your face?

Why do you persist in these pointless aurgments with Theorys a three year old could poke holes in?

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-02 05:18pm

Huh? I'm not playing semantic games. I'm just providing quotes to back up my claims. Notice that when Mon Mothma begins talking, she never mentions that they discovered a new death star, only that she now knows its "exact location".

You claim that the location of the shield generator and location of the DS2 project was not in the same package, when it clearly was.

Please provide one canonical quote that the entire project was secret, not just its location

The project was secret from the populace, so was the first DS project

Pg. 31: "After many long years of secretive construction," he declared with evident pleasure, "this station has become the decisive force in this part of the universe."

(ref: Star Wars IV: A New Hope Novellization)

It was further shown in Shadows of the Empire that only the rebels knew of its construction, the general populace did not know anything about it.

I'm well aware of the size and scope of the galaxy. I'm mearly debating the percentage of the galactice ecomomy that the Empire controls. What is the Imperial tax rate? What percentage of the Imperial budget is spent on the military? These questions can't be answered by saying "there are millions of planets in the Empire."

That is unknown but the DS project required the resources of about 20 sector groups.
The empire has thousands of sectors.

Looking at the end of ROTJ SE, it shows that the entire Imperial military is -incapable- of maintaining control without the emperor. Therefore, the number of starships needed to maintain control of a mulit-million planet galaxy is irrelevent since the Empire clearly does not possess that many ships. The speed and totality of the Empire's collapse would indicate that he had significantly fewer ships than was needed.

Incorrect, the Empire does have so many ships, the collapse was because of the lack of a successor to the throne wich lead to civil war between the various leaders, something the rebellion capitalized upon and used to build up their resources.

One final note about Dondonna's firepower quote. He was talking about the Death Stars anti-ship defenses, this firepower was related to the number and strength of the turbolasers protecting the DS, not the raw power output of the ship's main weapon.

No he's not.

"The resulting energy beam had more firepower than half the Imperial starfleet and could instantly reduce a world to asteroid fragments. Each amplification crystal required a seperate gunnery station, where a crew of fourteen soldiers had to precisely adjust and modulate the turbolaser pulses to allow the focus lens to create a stable energy beam. Four reserve amplification crystals could be brought on line."

(ref: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology)

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-02 05:20pm

I have to respond to the lunacy being presented by the rapid supporters of the Empire.

The only lunacy here is the one presented by you and your inability to comprehend the truth.

If the Black Sun crime syndicate had to supply the Empire with the materials needed to build the DSII then that obviously would show that the Empire did not have the resources to do the job themselves. Why would they bring in an outside criminal organziation if it weren't absolutely necessary. That just shows how silly the EU is anyways.

Yeah suure :rolleyes:
I bet things like secrecy escape you?
Using the black suns ships to ship resources will effectively hide the hoarding of resources.

As for the EU comment, can't counter it, ridicule it, a sad version of an ad hominem.

Furthermore, how the hell do you assume that Dodonna's statement in ANH shows that the entire Starfleet had greater firepower than the Death Star?

Because it flat out says so.
And because official evidence agrees:

"The resulting energy beam had more firepower than half the Imperial starfleet and could instantly reduce a world to asteroid fragments."

(ref: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology)

Canon evidence also agrees:

Pg. 195: VADER: See that great circular dish? That is the Prime Weapon. Mere starfleets pale by comparison.

(ref: Star Wars IV: A New Hope Novellization)

You guys twist statements worse than RELIGIOUS FANATICS.

No, that would be you.

Dodonna said that the DS had a power greater than half the Starfleet.

DODONNA: "The station is heavily shielded and carries a FIREPOWER greater than half the imperial starfleet."

That statement does not = the entire Starfleet is greater than the DS. That just literally means that the DS was more powerful than half of the starfleet.

But not the whole starfleet.

You can't use his statement to determine the power of the starfleet in relation to the DS.

Yes we can because it's a millitary briefing and because canon and official evidence agrees.

Also, nobody seems to remember the Imperial Commander on the DS who said that the DS was the ultimate "power in the UNIVERSE". The Imperial Commander was speaking in large terms here. If a second before this he said that the Rebels were a threat to "your Starfleet" the DS must have been greater than anything else the Imperials had.

Thats the lamest and flimsiest excuse for not wanting to face facts I've ever seen, Dodonna was conducting a MILLTARY FUCKIN' BRIEFING.

Han Solo's statement is really important here.

Oh yes, the last desperate escape clause when there is no other hope to sustain your errorenous delusions about the truth of Star Wars, nice.
Solo was stunned beyond belief:

Pg. 102:
"No." Solo was shaking his head slowly. In his own way even he was stunned by the enormity of what the old man was suggesting. That a human agency had been responsible for the annihilation of an entire population, of a planet itself...

(ref: Star Wars IV: A New Hope Novellization)

Really nice of you to try and turn the hyperbole of a man in shock into literal facts.

Han Solo lives in the Star Wars Galaxy. He even (according to some EU sources) was in the Imperial Military. He has flown across the galaxy several times. He has been chased by Star Destroyers (Cruisers) . He would know approximately how many warships the Empire would reasonably have. He may have been off by a few thousand, but certainly not MILLIONS!

Nobody had said millions of ISD's there where only 25.000 of those.
Then again, there where going to be millions of them eventually, thats actually the EU's fault for not recognizing the size and scope of the SW galaxy.

Like I have said before, the EU continues to expand the size of the Empire in order to keep on making new books, etc...

Yeah, you where delusional and lying then, you're still lying and you're still delusional, if George Lucas could see you he would kick you in the nuts.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-09-02 05:23pm

Like I have said before, the EU continues to expand the size of the Empire in order to keep on making new books, etc...

Empire hasn't played a major role in the EU for years now and even if they do bring it in, which they probably will, I'd be very surprised if it was for anything other than fighting alongside the NR against the Vong.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-09-02 05:24pm

Dammit no edit. Make that "bring in to the NJO" instead of "bring in"

Raptor 597 · Post by **Raptor 597** » 2002-09-02 05:29pm

Commander LeoRo wrote:I have to respond to the lunacy being presented by the rapid supporters of the Empire. If the Black Sun crime syndicate had to supply the Empire with the materials needed to build the DSII then that obviously would show that the Empire did not have the resources to do the job themselves. Why would they bring in an outside criminal organziation if it weren't absolutely necessary. That just shows how silly the EU is anyways.

Furthermore, how the hell do you assume that Dodonna's statement in ANH shows that the entire Starfleet had greater firepower than the Death Star? You guys twist statements worse than RELIGIOUS FANATICS. Dodonna said that the DS had a power greater than half the Starfleet. That statement does not = the entire Starfleet is greater than the DS. That just literally means that the DS was more powerful than half of the starfleet. You can't use his statement to determine the power of the starfleet in relation to the DS. Also, nobody seems to remember the Imperial Commander on the DS who said that the DS was the ultimate "power in the UNIVERSE". The Imperial Commander was speaking in large terms here. If a second before this he said that the Rebels were a threat to "your Starfleet" the DS must have been greater than anything else the Imperials had. Even the entire Starfleet was not match for the firepower of the DS. When you combine Han Solo's statement, the Imperial Commander's statement, and Dodonna's statement there is no contradiction. It is clear that the DS was the most poweful force in the Star Wars Galaxy. Much greater than the entire Starfleet.

Han Solo's statement is really important here. Han Solo lives in the Star Wars Galaxy. He even (according to some EU sources) was in the Imperial Military. He has flown across the galaxy several times. He has been chased by Star Destroyers (Cruisers) . He would know approximately how many warships the Empire would reasonably have. He may have been off by a few thousand, but certainly not MILLIONS! Like I have said before, the EU continues to expand the size of the Empire in order to keep on making new books, etc...

Well, yeah it's the Utlimate power in the Universe, dumbass, it blows up planets. Ok, your level of intelligence terms: Big light, planet go boom.
You are stupid trying to compare DS's to a TIE Fighter or ISD. Thats like trying to compare a Army Private to an Inter Continental Ballistic Missle.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-02 05:30pm

Pg. 195: VADER: See that great circular dish? That is the Prime Weapon. Mere starfleets pale by comparison.

If mere starfleets pale by comparison to the superlaser, obviously the Imperial Starfleet was not more powerful than the superlaser. Furthermore, Dodonna's statement only shows us that the power of the DS was > than half of the Starfleet. He didn't say "just" greater than half of the starfleet. He didn't say = to the power of half the starfleet. He said greater than half. That statement does not place an upper limit on the power of the DS in relation to the Starfleet.

More to come later...

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-02 05:30pm

More proof on the Empires size and capabilities:

Imperial Intelligence has placed millions of system cells throughout the galaxy. They exist on every inhabited world, and even on a few uninhabited ones which prove to be convenient jump sites or listening posts.

(ref: Imperial Sourcebook)

Millions of worlds.

Priority sectors are the first to receive experimental equipment, and theirs are the first to have losses replaced. Priority sectors are sometimes given special missions in which the Emperor has a personal interest. The Death Star Project is an example of a priority sector into which the Empire poured resources enough to have formed perhaps a score of Sector Groups.

(ref: Imperial Sourcebook)

The DS project took "only" the resources of 20 or so sector groups out the thousands on the Empire.

This group is gently wriggling from the control of SAGroupHQ, goaded by support from the ISB. Their activities are at an all-time high, sometimes offering impressive incentives to parents to have their offspring join SAGroup. The goals over the next five standard years is to have membership in SAGroup swell to 10 trillion.

(ref: Imperial Sourcebook)

The SW version of the Hitler Youth, 10 trillion members expected in 5 years, that means every second 63000 new members would join.

"It was likely that the Emperor would use every means at his disposal to destroy the Rebels. Even before the Death Star, he had more than enough firepower to wipe out whole planets. Many, many people were going to die, and often the Alliance would have to just let it happen."

(ref: Rebel Alliance Sourcebook)

Guest · Post by **Guest** » 2002-09-02 05:33pm

If the Empire could have built more than one DS at a time, why didn't they? They could have easily overwhelmed the Rebels. The reason why the Empire didn't do that is because they couldn't. The Imperial Sourcebook is from West End Games RPG. There is a lot of information that is incorrect in that book.

His Divine Shadow · Post by **His Divine Shadow** » 2002-09-02 05:35pm

Commander LeoRo wrote:If mere starfleets pale by comparison to the superlaser, obviously the Imperial Starfleet was not more powerful than the superlaser. Furthermore, Dodonna's statement only shows us that the power of the DS was > than half of the Starfleet. He didn't say "just" greater than half of the starfleet. He didn't say = to the power of half the starfleet. He said greater than half. That statement does not place an upper limit on the power of the DS in relation to the Starfleet.

Ooh, total lack of any logical facilities I see.
Secondly, the Imperial Starfleet was more powerfull than the DS you insufferable dolt, because DODONNA, a MILLTARY COMMANDER, during a MILLTARY BRIEFING, said it had more FIREPOWER than half the imperial starfleet but nore more than the Imperial Starfleet.
And ofcourse if half the imperial starfleet and it's millions of vessels have less firepower than the DS superlaser, then sure as hell are ordinary starfleets going pale next to it. Duh!
Read this again:

"The resulting energy beam had more firepower than half the Imperial starfleet and could instantly reduce a world to asteroid fragments."

(ref: The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology)

More to come later...

Nothing of importance though, just more impotent tries to push over your twisted view of SW.
I'm outta here, I can't take this much stupid.