We're pretty much fucked

[Broomstick]

We can do worse than that and get by just fine. Nobody actually needs electric power at home, for example.

Perhaps 'need' is too strong a term but without either a supply of natural gas (which, as far as I know, will go much the same way as oil sooner or later) or electricity very few homes will have the capacity to actually cook anything. Maybe the situation's different in America but I don't see many alternatives to gas-fired or electric ovens in Britain and there's only so much furniture you can burn to get an open fire before you run out and the last thing we need is yet another crimp in the food supply.

Most American and to my knowledge Canadian homes have a wood stove for heat which you could easily place pots and pans ontop of to cook with. Or throw steaks right onto the physical surface to cook them. Not ideal, certainly, but you'll hardly be unable to cook.

Where the fuck do you live? My current residence is the first place I've ever lived with anything of the sort, and it is in only one unit of five in this building. Mind you, I've lived in Missouri, West Virginia, Michigan, Illinois, and Indiana. Likewise, most US homes no longer have a working fireplace. Many that had wood burning fire places have replaced them with propane/natural gas.

I don't think we'll have to give up artificial lighting. Nor do I think the government will do something as stupid as only turn the lights on 2-3 hours per day. What I expect would happen is a strong limit on the power provided to residences - sufficient for a light or two, but not heavy appliances - combined with a return to gas lighting in areas urbanized enough to support such networks.

I think some folks are forgetting that we have some alternatives already in place. For example, Niagra Fall power stations, the TVA, Grand Coulee Dam... We have also developed both nuclear and solar power, neither of which were around in the 19th Century.

Rural areas will go back to local power production - water wheels, windmills, solar in some situations.

Natural gas pumped out of the ground can, in many instances (such as home power, heating, and cooking) be replaced by methane, which is available from renewable resources, including human waste

Electic lights and powered items will not disappear. Certain applications will become much less common, and others very much more expensive, but the technology will not just up and disappear.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Again, I'm referring to temporary austerity measures while we implement a large-scale expansion of our industrial resources. Building new nuclear powerplants, turbines for dams, and geothermal equipment is going to cost energy as much as money, and the energy has to come from somewhere in a world where the potential energy available is already being reduced by Peak Oil.

I'm lived West of the Mississippi for a large portion of my adult life, and for whatever reason, the only time I've lived east of the river happened to be in a house with a fireplace.

[Broomstick]

I'm saying that the government will intentionally deny electricity to private homes so that it can be redirected to powering massive industrial expansion and the construction of huge amounts of nuclear power plants, copper cable, electric farm vehicles, nuclear reactors for ships, etc, which are going to be required to offset the end of oil. The energy for producing all this new equipment which will have to replace the old equipment will have to come from somewhere--and we will probably end up having to cannibalize it from private luxury use.

I fail to see how you leap to this conclusion. Deny power to private homes to build nuclear plants? If you're not going to use the energy you produce, why build the power plant?

Electric farm vehicles? Why? Why electric? Why not biodiesal or alcohol powered? We already have engines that run on these fuels. Hell, Brazil has agricultural airplanes that run on alcohol! Are these fuels as efficient as gasoline? Probably not. On the other hand, a converted Stearman biplane used for crop dusting ain't efficient either. Sometimes "it works good enough" IS good enough.

Does that mean the price of food will go up? You bet. However, right now cost of food vs. income is at historical lows in the industrialized world. People likely won't starve... but their eating habits will change.

[Galvatron]

I'm a master of Hokuto Shinken. Be nice to me when I show up in your shanty town to fend off the local biker bandits.

[Broomstick]

There's also the issue of where exactly all that wood would come from. There's a heck of a lot more people now than way back.

You don't have to burn wood. One excellent alternative would be waste material from farming activities.

Shinova is writing from Arizona. Granted, Arizona has agriculture, and has since before the Spanish showed up to bother the natives, but outside of irrigated areas it's desert - not enough burnables for metropolises like Phoenix, or, in neighboring Nevada, Las Vegas.

Sure, they're warm areas -- but I've been in Phoenix with an inch of snow on the ground, it does get cold from time to time.

Then again, that might be area that could go intesively solar, at least for heating purposes (both solar heating and solar cooking can be done without high-tech solar panels that generate electricity)

I suspect, again, that the solutions will be more local and more variable. I'd expect the East Coast/Appalacia area to revert back to heavy coal use. Places like Arizona, Nevada, California, Texas, and other areas with lots of sun could actually utilize quite a bit of solar. The Chicago area already has six operating nuclear plants. Buffalo, New York already uses Niagra Falls for power.

What will take the big hit is the automobile culture. Either we come up with viable alternative fuel/engine systems (which I think, long term, is more likely to be a multi-fuel diesal type rather than a gas/electric hybrid or electric vehicle) or cities revert to mass transit. I don't think the car will disappear, particularly in remote/rural areas, but the cost will skyrocket. People will use alternatives for every day and perhaps rent or lease an auto for long trips/special occasions. You can already see some of this in New York and Chicago, where residents frequently do not own cars due to the prohibitive cost of ownership in those areas but will rent them as needed for trips. Certain categories of people, such as doctors, might have their fuel needs subsidized see there is a societal benefit to having those people mobile.

[Broomstick]

Again, I'm referring to temporary austerity measures while we implement a large-scale expansion of our industrial resources. Building new nuclear powerplants, turbines for dams, and geothermal equipment is going to cost energy as much as money, and the energy has to come from somewhere in a world where the potential energy available is already being reduced by Peak Oil.

But I question if such austerity measures would ever be necessary. We already have many of the power plants you mention, oil will not simply vanish overnight (just become progressively more expensive), and in many cases alternatives can either be returned to (such as gas lighting and steam heat in cities) or developed.

Sure, we might not all be running cars on biodiesal refined from McDonald's french fry oil, but some will, and that will relieve the pressure on areas where alternatives are fewer or less viable. Part of the mistake we made was becoming soooo dependent on just one energy source. Long and longer term we'll be best off by employing a variety of energy sources.

I'm lived West of the Mississippi for a large portion of my adult life, and for whatever reason, the only time I've lived east of the river happened to be in a house with a fireplace.

Well, the US is quite variable in housing - and there's proof.

There's going to be a huge variation in how adaptable various regions are.

The other thing is that I've been hearing end of the world scenarios for the last 30-40 years - oh my gawd, the world is about to end due to energy/food/water/whatever shortages. Yes, there are some serious supply issues, but the Great Doom keeps getting pushed back every decade. That doesn't mean there won't be some great disaster - there certainly could be if we get stupid enough - but I also doubt the worst-case scenarios will come to pass either in our lifetimes or ever.