Matrix Reloaded Force Sub (highway chase t-1000)

[Illuminatus Primus]

Watch T2 and see all the KE punishment the T-1000 takes. While the plasma bolt seems to do a lot of KE (which is rather odd for a plasma weapon, you'd think most of the damage would be thermal) that is not enough to totally destroy a T-1000.

I've seen T2--I haven't seen the T-1000 take a hit that can throw a 1000 lbs machine through the air and through a shed all at once.

[Stravo]

Whats with the driving of the 'twins' anyway? It was horrible, they didn't even try and ram the car that he zionists were in. AFter he ran out of bullets, they didn't try and run them off the road or anything like the agent did, (stupid move by the twins part considering they had a heavier vehicle)

Maybe the different driving style of the t-1000 would have changed how things played out?

Different....driving....style?

He drives a police car, a mack truck, a motorcycle and a helicopter and the only one where he showed any kind of skill was at the Helicopter flying at car level on a highway.

[Sea Skimmer]

Whats with the driving of the 'twins' anyway? It was horrible, they didn't even try and ram the car that he zionists were in. AFter he ran out of bullets, they didn't try and run them off the road or anything like the agent did, (stupid move by the twins part considering they had a heavier vehicle)

That was pretty fucking stupid. Ramming makes far more sense then firing dozens of .45cal rounds into the vehicle, especially since they presumably wanted to recover the Keymaker alive.

[Hobot]

Watch T2 and see all the KE punishment the T-1000 takes. While the plasma bolt seems to do a lot of KE (which is rather odd for a plasma weapon, you'd think most of the damage would be thermal) that is not enough to totally destroy a T-1000.

I've seen T2--I haven't seen the T-1000 take a hit that can throw a 1000 lbs machine through the air and through a shed all at once.

True, but he literally shrugs off all the KE hits and keeps on ticking. His weaknesses lie in the form of extreme temperatures.

[Omega-13]

Strawman bullshit. I pointed out that the T-850 was a lot more resistant to punishment (esp. since it is a KE weapon, and the T-1000 can't handle as much KE as it can) and was stronger than the T-800, so a hand-to-hand battle in the parking lot would've delayed the T-1000 indefinitely, esp. without all the walls and machinery to hit it into like was done to the T-800 in T2.

first off, we don't know how the plasma gun works, or why it knocks out the T-1000, but it sure as hell isn't its KE component.

The T-1000 went over a 20 foot bridge with a truck, slammed into the ground, and wasn't phased, kept on driving. The t-800 was stunned and knocked around from a few concrete walls, the t-1000 was unphased.

The t-1000 remained on its feet longer and from more shotgun blasts than arnold did in T1 (bar scene against Reece)

The t-1000 also took a hit from a 40mm grenade launcher and reformed, it even reformed and took shape inside the melted steel!
thats very impressive.

the problem with the T-800 series and t-850's is they can't recover from injury
T1 (leg injury)
T2 (leg injury)

[Omega-13]

He drives a police car, a mack truck, a motorcycle and a helicopter and the only one where he showed any kind of skill was at the Helicopter flying at car level on a highway.

RIIIIIGHT.

You try and recover a truck that fell of a 20 foot bridge, compensating for mechanical failures (as we saw half the bottom of the truck falling apart)

you try and correct an 18 wheel truck taking a sharp right turn off the freeway exit, ,smashing through water contains and keep on moving

you try and drive a motorcycle up a flight of stairs...
REWATCH THE MOVIE!

[Shogoki]

Since the T-1000 seems to be popular right now, in these debates we'll throw it into the sceme of things again.

*the twins are not in this*
matrix reloaded, the keymaker is running his ass off, and morph and trinity are in chase, the T-1000 oozes through the door (where in the movie the twin stuck his arm) He is working for the marodevinchian(sp?)

Can moprh and trinity even get out of the parking lot? Can they kung fu him quickly so they can make an escape so the highway chase scene can occur?

Well, the T-1000 is probably strong enough to just rip the door off, to start with, kung fu is a no no, since any punch or kick trown at it will probably meet with something pointy or very sharp (the kitchen scene shows how fast it can turn himself into something sharp), and we know it uses it's morphing ability during battle.

About the sword, i dont know if it would go all the way through, and he can manupulate it with any part of its body if it gets stuck. And it whould be just stupid to get close enough to do hand combat to begin with, since it can attack you from any part of it's body that has a clean shot.

I think their best chance is to just run away as fast as they can and slow down the T-1000 with bullets.

[Omega-13]

Well, the T-1000 is probably strong enough to just rip the door off, to start with, kung fu is a no no, since any punch or kick trown at it will probably meet with something pointy or very sharp (the kitchen scene shows how fast it can turn himself into something sharp), and we know it uses it's morphing ability during battle.

About the sword, i dont know if it would go all the way through, and he can manupulate it with any part of its body if it gets stuck. And it whould be just stupid to get close enough to do hand combat to begin with, since it can attack you from any part of it's body that has a clean shot.

I think their best chance is to just run away as fast as they can and slow down the T-1000 with bullets.

While I couldn't agree with you more, their handguns wouldn't slow it down, if they didn't get into the car immediately as it was forming from goo, morph would never leave the parking lot

[SirNitram]

Let me re-iterate: Of course the T-1000 handles blunt trauma well. It's fucking high-viscosity liquid. Don't like it? Well, it certainly acts like an extremely high viscosity liquid.

1) Wounds do not insta-heal. So cutting off the arms is a valid tactic. If you actually remembered the movie, you'd remember that such acts rapidly deplete the T-1000 of mass to reform itself, hence why one leg was shorter until the cop-T recovered the little bit attached to the car.

2) Morpheus' reaction speeds in the Matrix exceed those of the T-800, and the T-1000 by such a degree that de-limbing the Big T is a perfectly valid tactic. It is a delaying maneuver.

3) As previously stated, Zionist punches easily exceed bullets in the Matrix.

[NecronLord]

Sorry Stavro, but I can't let this monstrosity go.

Care to show where in T2 we see the T-1000 even APPROACH the hand to hand fighting skills of the an Agent much less Morpheus?

Morpheus is far less able than an agent. He was captured remember?

The sum total of its hand to hand is grabbing a firm hold of the T-800 and slamming it against a wall, waiting to be picked up and slammed in return.

And stabbing people. And side - kicking while being impaled, and re forming itself around an enemy.

In fact the T-1000 does not ever leave its fett to deliver a kick or back flip or anything like what we see in the Matrix.

You realise that no one in reality does that either? While it is just possible over short distances, and looks cool, in real combat if you did that your opponent has a good chance of getting out of the way, and possibly give you a slight push to ruin your balance, make you land on your head and die/suffer brain damage.

This isn't quake, Once you are off the ground, you have no control over yourself (unless you count flailing wildly) and are highly vunerable, not to mention the probability of breaking something (even your neck) when you land.

There is no martial art that would ever reccommend you try something so fatally stupid. Ever. Full stop.

[Stravo]

Necronlord, I fully agree and make the same point in one of my stories about leaving your feet in a fight, but we're talking about was is observed in the Matrix, they routinely leave their feet and backflip, flying kicks, Morpheus' flying through the air tiger thing that I never thought looked cool, so agility is something that they have in the Matrix that the Terminator series has never shown on the same level.

[NecronLord]

Necronlord, I fully agree and make the same point in one of my stories about leaving your feet in a fight, but we're talking about was is observed in the Matrix, they routinely leave their feet and backflip, flying kicks, Morpheus' flying through the air tiger thing that I never thought looked cool, so agility is something that they have in the Matrix that the Terminator series has never shown on the same level.

Of course not, it uses realistic physics.

[mauldooku]

Well, if the T-1000 is able to 'open his mind' in the Matrix, and everything in the Matrix really is based on mental perceptions, then he uses his computer brain to become uber-powerful

Of course, as the thread creator stated to assume that the T-1000 has the same abilities as he has in the Real World, he doesn't ahve a chance in hell of terminating anything

[Omega-13]

Let me re-iterate: Of course the T-1000 handles blunt trauma well. It's fucking high-viscosity liquid. Don't like it? Well, it certainly acts like an extremely high viscosity liquid.

Yes it can act like a high viscosity liquid, if it chooses to be in that state, it can also act like a very dense alloy.

1) Wounds do not insta-heal. So cutting off the arms is a valid tactic. If you actually remembered the movie, you'd remember that such acts rapidly deplete the T-1000 of mass to reform itself, hence why one leg was shorter until the cop-T recovered the little bit attached to the car.

there was no visible limp in that scene I just watched it, if anything the T-1000 had to make himself slightly less dense so he could maintain the same shape. Instead of lets say 4.50 g/cm^3 (pure example) now he's 4.44 g/cm^3

2) Morpheus' reaction speeds in the Matrix exceed those of the T-800, and the T-1000 by such a degree that de-limbing the Big T is a perfectly valid tactic. It is a delaying maneuver.

sure delay it until what end? They need to leave the parking lot, and if moprh is busy dodging spikes and hacking away, ....
It doesn't take very long for it to recover, if you remember the scene with the pole in T2, he grabbed it right away with his hand, and he wasn't even expecting it. Also the T-1000 was quick to de-arm arnold in T2, first knocking the gun away, then knocking the pistol away.

3) As previously stated, Zionist punches easily exceed bullets in the Matrix.

so why aren't trinity's punches and kicks causing any bruises? or broke jaws etc. When she took out all those people in both movies?
why didn't Neo's punches and kicks aslong with Trinity's not do more damage on the roof of the building in Matrix, when they were taking on the SWAT team?

[Omega-13]

Of course, as the thread creator stated to assume that the T-1000 has the same abilities as he has in the Real World, he doesn't ahve a chance in hell of terminating anything

Why do you say that? He can't be killed by bullets like Agents can, can't be killed by expoding SUV"s like the twins were,
And he is a lot more aggressive than those rediculous twins,
what was the 2nd twin doing when the other one was in the car with Morph? Why wasn't he trying to ram the car off the road with the heavier SUV? A tactic terminators know very well

[SirNitram]

Let me re-iterate: Of course the T-1000 handles blunt trauma well. It's fucking high-viscosity liquid. Don't like it? Well, it certainly acts like an extremely high viscosity liquid.

Yes it can act like a high viscosity liquid, if it chooses to be in that state, it can also act like a very dense alloy.

When does he act like a 'dense alloy'? He acts very heavy when he pins the T-800, but guess what? Water is heavy. A pipe goes through a large chunk of him, so that's not going to help trying to argue that a sharp sword can't go through his shoulder!

1) Wounds do not insta-heal. So cutting off the arms is a valid tactic. If you actually remembered the movie, you'd remember that such acts rapidly deplete the T-1000 of mass to reform itself, hence why one leg was shorter until the cop-T recovered the little bit attached to the car.

there was no visible limp in that scene I just watched it, if anything the T-1000 had to make himself slightly less dense so he could maintain the same shape. Instead of lets say 4.50 g/cm^3 (pure example) now he's 4.44 g/cm^3

I correct myself upon re-watching that scene. It's his arm that's slightly shorter. The idea of making himself 'less dense' is rather silly, if that were so, he wouldn't have needed to reclaim that tiny fragment, or wait for all of himself to flow together after being frozen. Lost mass slows him down.

2) Morpheus' reaction speeds in the Matrix exceed those of the T-800, and the T-1000 by such a degree that de-limbing the Big T is a perfectly valid tactic. It is a delaying maneuver.

sure delay it until what end? They need to leave the parking lot, and if moprh is busy dodging spikes and hacking away, ....
It doesn't take very long for it to recover, if you remember the scene with the pole in T2, he grabbed it right away with his hand, and he wasn't even expecting it. Also the T-1000 was quick to de-arm arnold in T2, first knocking the gun away, then knocking the pistol away.

Unfortunately, going by the observed regeneration times for extreme wounds(Which a dude with a sword and Morpheus' reaction time can inflict), Morph can dive in a car and be driven away in the same time as it took when he was uselessly swatting at the Twins as they phased. And then they are gone. T-1000 will take longer to hijack a car, and will have a much tougher time attacking on the Freeway.

3) As previously stated, Zionist punches easily exceed bullets in the Matrix.

so why aren't trinity's punches and kicks causing any bruises? or broke jaws etc. When she took out all those people in both movies?
why didn't Neo's punches and kicks aslong with Trinity's not do more damage on the roof of the building in Matrix, when they were taking on the SWAT team?

Beleif. The Matrix acts fucked up, that doesn't reduce the fact they do extreme damage with bare fists.

[Omega-13]

When does he act like a 'dense alloy'? He acts very heavy when he pins the T-800, but guess what? Water is heavy. A pipe goes through a large chunk of him, so that's not going to help trying to argue that a sharp sword can't go through his shoulder!

When arnold and him are behind the arcade, he holds arnold to a standstill with the gun, how could he do that as a high viscosity liquid?
When he gets throw into the wall, and headbutted how can he have no deformation as just a thick liquid? he had to be dense.

I correct myself upon re-watching that scene. It's his arm that's slightly shorter. The idea of making himself 'less dense' is rather silly, if that were so, he wouldn't have needed to reclaim that tiny fragment, or wait for all of himself to flow together after being frozen. Lost mass slows him down.

I stand corrected, just watched it, I never noticed, good stuff.

Unfortunately, going by the observed regeneration times for extreme wounds(Which a dude with a sword and Morpheus' reaction time can inflict), Morph can dive in a car and be driven away in the same time as it took when he was uselessly swatting at the Twins as they phased. And then they are gone. T-1000 will take longer to hijack a car, and will have a much tougher time attacking on the Freeway.

I agree that 'if' morph can cause a lot of damage, he can get away in time before the T-1000 gets its act together, but as I stated, the t-1000 grabbed the pole when it went in, and he wasn't even expecting it. He could do the same to the sword.

Beleif. The Matrix acts fucked up, that doesn't reduce the fact they do extreme damage with bare fists.

I have to argue here, moprh didn't just walk through the wall in MATRIX like it was made out of paper, he roared like thudner and brought all his concentration together, so he could go through it. A small brittle wall like that would be walked through by a terminator, concrete walls with rebarb inside were breaking behind the arcade

[SirNitram]

When does he act like a 'dense alloy'? He acts very heavy when he pins the T-800, but guess what? Water is heavy. A pipe goes through a large chunk of him, so that's not going to help trying to argue that a sharp sword can't go through his shoulder!

When arnold and him are behind the arcade, he holds arnold to a standstill with the gun, how could he do that as a high viscosity liquid?
When he gets throw into the wall, and headbutted how can he have no deformation as just a thick liquid? he had to be dense.

You do realize that 'dense' and 'liquid' aren't mutually exclusive, right?

I correct myself upon re-watching that scene. It's his arm that's slightly shorter. The idea of making himself 'less dense' is rather silly, if that were so, he wouldn't have needed to reclaim that tiny fragment, or wait for all of himself to flow together after being frozen. Lost mass slows him down.

I stand corrected, just watched it, I never noticed, good stuff.

Attention to small details are what made the series.

Unfortunately, going by the observed regeneration times for extreme wounds(Which a dude with a sword and Morpheus' reaction time can inflict), Morph can dive in a car and be driven away in the same time as it took when he was uselessly swatting at the Twins as they phased. And then they are gone. T-1000 will take longer to hijack a car, and will have a much tougher time attacking on the Freeway.

I agree that 'if' morph can cause a lot of damage, he can get away in time before the T-1000 gets its act together, but as I stated, the t-1000 grabbed the pole when it went in, and he wasn't even expecting it. He could do the same to the sword.

Except Morpheus' reaction speed is massively superior to the T-800's. Sorry.

Beleif. The Matrix acts fucked up, that doesn't reduce the fact they do extreme damage with bare fists.

I have to argue here, moprh didn't just walk through the wall in MATRIX like it was made out of paper, he roared like thudner and brought all his concentration together, so he could go through it. A small brittle wall like that would be walked through by a terminator, concrete walls with rebarb inside were breaking behind the arcade

Wow, Terminators are heavy. Guess what? Smith was smashing apart concrete with his bare fucking hands.

[Omega-13]

You do realize that 'dense' and 'liquid' aren't mutually exclusive, right?

yes mercury is a good example, I should have said, the T-1000 can make itself very very ridgid and hard.

Wow, Terminators are heavy. Guess what? Smith was smashing apart concrete with his bare fucking hands.

Smith did, and so did JOhnson, notice that all they have to do is hit the zionists once and they go flying, its not the same for zionists punching agents

they are no where near the same strength.

[Stravo]

You do realize that 'dense' and 'liquid' aren't mutually exclusive, right?

yes mercury is a good example, I should have said, the T-1000 can make itself very very ridgid and hard.

Ok I'm sorry but that's just wrong.

[DPDarkPrimus]

I have to argue here, moprh didn't just walk through the wall in MATRIX like it was made out of paper, he roared like thudner and brought all his concentration together, so he could go through it.

I was under the impression that he was yelling to A) Get the attention of the Agent, and B) Psych himself up for the fight.

[mauldooku]

Of course, as the thread creator stated to assume that the T-1000 has the same abilities as he has in the Real World, he doesn't ahve a chance in hell of terminating anything

Why do you say that? He can't be killed by bullets like Agents can, can't be killed by expoding SUV"s like the twins were,
And he is a lot more aggressive than those rediculous twins,
what was the 2nd twin doing when the other one was in the car with Morph? Why wasn't he trying to ram the car off the road with the heavier SUV? A tactic terminators know very well

Simple. True, he can't be killed. Note that I only stated he can't TERMINATE anything, not that anyone else could kill him.

I do think that if the T-1000 was able to use the full potential of its computer brain in the Matrix, and assuming that what Morph said early on about how speed/power in the Matrix is basd on how fast your mind is (or some junk like that, can't remember much of what Morph says) he SHOULD be able to move at blinding rates. Then again, the Agents should be able to do this too, and yet, although they move much faster than humans, they don't approach NEAR the speed they should be able to attain. This is all moot, anyway, as the rules laid down assumes that the T-1000 comes into the Matrix with its normal, T2 capabilites and abilities. In that case the T-1000's slower hand-to-hand combat speed and weakness to being stunned by all kinds of shit kills his chances.

[Howedar]

It should be noted that the T-1000 was able to run very much faster than any human, as he could keep up and maybe even gain on a racing motorbike. He could clearly run at least 30mph.

[DPDarkPrimus]

[
Smith did, and so did JOhnson, notice that all they have to do is hit the zionists once and they go flying, its not the same for zionists punching agents

they are no where near the same strength.

Or, maybe, uh, Agents are stronger than the Zionists, so they can withstand a harder blow?

[SirNitram]

It should be noted that the T-1000 was able to run very much faster than any human, as he could keep up and maybe even gain on a racing motorbike. He could clearly run at least 30mph.

Yet didn't pursue a car when he was mildly injured and missing a small part of himself.(Well, he pursued until he got the bit back. Then he stopped) Why? Does regenerating take that much out of him?