Dutch VS T-1000

[The Prime Necromancer]

I've always thought the damage from being frozen was a bit more extensive than the 'extremities mimicing floor' bit....the T-1000's cognitive abilities seem to have taken a hit too. A few examples:

1. Why did the T-1000 walk...slowly...menacingly...towards our heroes (giving them time to get away) after reforming?

2. Why did the T-1000, after handing the T-800 its ass on a plate, IGNORE the weapons the T-800 had? He could've easily terminated John with either.

3. Why did the T-1000, after apprehending/torturing Sarah Connor, LET HER LIVE?! On top of that, why did the T-1000 let her keep the shotgun?

I don't know about point one, perhaps it didn't want to exert itself after an experience that was so disruptive to its body, unless absolutely necessary. After all, they weren't going anywhere fast.

As for points two and three, one can see examples of this way before the steel plant scene. In regards to point 2, you notice that the T-1000 did not knock over a gun store, unlike T-800 of the original. It merely picked up weapons that it came across, mainly pistols. As for point 3, early on, the T-1000 abadoned the T-800 in the mall, a potential threat, that it should have probably finished off. Throughout the movie, it shows a rather monomaniacal pursuit of Connor, sometimes to excess.

Both of these point to the fact that the T-1000 seemed to be designed with an infiltration role in mind, rather than front-line combat unit (at least, this one had the programming of one).

I would like to comment on Omega-13's arguement. Sometimes I find the idea of strict suspension of disbelief (everything on screen is absolute truth) difficult to accept also, and it does sometimes make us take things out of context than the creators desired. For instance, in ST4 by strict suspension of disbelief, the Klingons must have some kind of size-changing technology, since the Bird of Prey changes sizes. In one episode of Babylon 5, the characters decide to use a laser to send a message through the hyperspace gate. The laser looks like a typical Hollywood laser: in glows brightly for the viewers. *We* know a real laser doesn't do that. What do we assume? That the characters are all morons who don't know what they're doing, and that they're in fact using an unidentified mechanism? According to strict suspension of disbelief, we should do that. Then's theres the sound in space, thing. For Star Wars its explained (sortof) but for every other franchise, what do we assume? There are other things, but that's what comes to mind at the moment. I will say that I don't think it applies in this circumstance, nor do I think that his Death Star example makes any sense. However, the arguement itself, in special circumstances, is valid.

As for who would win, I agree with Steven Snyder. With the correct weapons, the correct knowledge, and with a little luck, they could take it down. But if you just replace the T-1000 with the Predator, I say they go down hard.

[mauldooku]

I've always thought the damage from being frozen was a bit more extensive than the 'extremities mimicing floor' bit....the T-1000's cognitive abilities seem to have taken a hit too. A few examples:

1. Why did the T-1000 walk...slowly...menacingly...towards our heroes (giving them time to get away) after reforming?

2. Why did the T-1000, after handing the T-800 its ass on a plate, IGNORE the weapons the T-800 had? He could've easily terminated John with either.

3. Why did the T-1000, after apprehending/torturing Sarah Connor, LET HER LIVE?! On top of that, why did the T-1000 let her keep the shotgun?

I don't know about point one, perhaps it didn't want to exert itself after an experience that was so disruptive to its body, unless absolutely necessary. After all, they weren't going anywhere fast.

As for points two and three, one can see examples of this way before the steel plant scene. In regards to point 2, you notice that the T-1000 did not knock over a gun store, unlike T-800 of the original. It merely picked up weapons that it came across, mainly pistols. As for point 3, early on, the T-1000 abadoned the T-800 in the mall, a potential threat, that it should have probably finished off. Throughout the movie, it shows a rather monomaniacal pursuit of Connor, sometimes to excess.

Both of these point to the fact that the T-1000 seemed to be designed with an infiltration role in mind, rather than front-line combat unit (at least, this one had the programming of one).

I would like to comment on Omega-13's arguement. Sometimes I find the idea of strict suspension of disbelief (everything on screen is absolute truth) difficult to accept also, and it does sometimes make us take things out of context than the creators desired. For instance, in ST4 by strict suspension of disbelief, the Klingons must have some kind of size-changing technology, since the Bird of Prey changes sizes. In one episode of Babylon 5, the characters decide to use a laser to send a message through the hyperspace gate. The laser looks like a typical Hollywood laser: in glows brightly for the viewers. *We* know a real laser doesn't do that. What do we assume? That the characters are all morons who don't know what they're doing, and that they're in fact using an unidentified mechanism? According to strict suspension of disbelief, we should do that. Then's theres the sound in space, thing. For Star Wars its explained (sortof) but for every other franchise, what do we assume? There are other things, but that's what comes to mind at the moment. I will say that I don't think it applies in this circumstance, nor do I think that his Death Star example makes any sense. However, the arguement itself, in special circumstances, is valid.

As for who would win, I agree with Steven Snyder. With the correct weapons, the correct knowledge, and with a little luck, they could take it down. But if you just replace the T-1000 with the Predator, I say they go down hard.

Concerning your responses to my points:

1. Ehh...How would running stress it? Under a minute later, it gets into an 'exerting' fight with the T-800, which doesn't seem to bother it in the slightest.

2. The weapons thing: Eariler on in the movie, I assume the T-1000 doesn't purchase heavy duty weapons for several reasons:

The weapons available at a gun store are useless against the T-800. Why pack the extra firepower when you can kill John with handguns, and not waste time raiding gun stores?

Lugging around assault rifles and the like isn't good for sneaking around (why would a real-life cop carry then?).

3. The T-800 fight scene at the start of the movie and the T-1000's interragation with Sarah Connor are much more different than you state. In the first scenario, the T-800 wasn't even damaged-simply slightly stunned, which means the T-1000 would have to fight it for some time to actually kill it, there were large numbers of people around (it was in a mall, after all). In Sarah's case, all the T-1000 would need is a second to transform its arm into a spear and *Thunk*. We know that the T-1000 kills at the drop of a hat-remember how it killed John's foster dad earlier?


The suspension of disbelief items:

I don't know anything about the ST movies, so I'll have to concede to ignorance.

Ah, the music...hadn't thought of that...good point. Although it could be considered to be not part of the visuals, and therefore extraneous. Still, I agree here.

[The Prime Necromancer]

1. Ehh...How would running stress it? Under a minute later, it gets into an 'exerting' fight with the T-800, which doesn't seem to bother it in the slightest.

That's why I said, unless absolutely necessary. Besides, it was still recovering at first, and got better over time. Yeah, it's not perfect, I know.

The weapons available at a gun store are useless against the T-800. Why pack the extra firepower when you can kill John with handguns, and not waste time raiding gun stores?

Lugging around assault rifles and the like isn't good for sneaking around (why would a real-life cop carry then?).

I was going to say that you just contradicted yourself, saying that first that it didn't need heavier weapons, then saying it was stupid that it didn't take them. Then I realized that the T-1000 was unarmed at the time, and *any* weapon would have been useful. I'll have to concede that was a mistake on the T-1000's part.

Although I wonder if it was a "glitch" or a conscious decision by the T-1000. One of the things that I loved about the T-1000 was that, although often rather robotic, it seemed to possess some degree of self-awareness and actual malevolence. For instance, when Sarah runs out of shells, it waves its finger at her, in an utterly un-robotic gesture. Perhaps it wanted to kill these presumptions humans with its own hands.

Or maybe it wasn't programmed to use anything larger than an SMG. Or maybe you're right and it was glitching. I don't know.

3. The T-800 fight scene at the start of the movie and the T-1000's interragation with Sarah Connor are much more different than you state. In the first scenario, the T-800 wasn't even damaged-simply slightly stunned, which means the T-1000 would have to fight it for some time to actually kill it, there were large numbers of people around (it was in a mall, after all). In Sarah's case, all the T-1000 would need is a second to transform its arm into a spear and *Thunk*. We know that the T-1000 kills at the drop of a hat-remember how it killed John's foster dad earlier?

Well, the T-800 was stunned for a surprisingly long time. And we know that joints and its neck are nearly as armored as its torso. It probably could have put it down for good at that point.

The suspension of disbelief items:

I don't know anything about the ST movies, so I'll have to concede to ignorance.

Ah, the music...hadn't thought of that...good point. Although it could be considered to be not part of the visuals, and therefore extraneous. Still, I agree here.

I didn't actually mention the music, only sound in space. But I suppose, if you were *really* anal about suspension of disbelief, you could argue that the worlds that different movies take place in all have powerful speakers all over the place constantly blaring music, which changes depending on what the main characters are doing.

[mauldooku]

1. Ehh...How would running stress it? Under a minute later, it gets into an 'exerting' fight with the T-800, which doesn't seem to bother it in the slightest.

That's why I said, unless absolutely necessary. Besides, it was still recovering at first, and got better over time. Yeah, it's not perfect, I know.

The weapons available at a gun store are useless against the T-800. Why pack the extra firepower when you can kill John with handguns, and not waste time raiding gun stores?

Lugging around assault rifles and the like isn't good for sneaking around (why would a real-life cop carry then?).

I was going to say that you just contradicted yourself, saying that first that it didn't need heavier weapons, then saying it was stupid that it didn't take them. Then I realized that the T-1000 was unarmed at the time, and *any* weapon would have been useful. I'll have to concede that was a mistake on the T-1000's part.

Although I wonder if it was a "glitch" or a conscious decision by the T-1000. One of the things that I loved about the T-1000 was that, although often rather robotic, it seemed to possess some degree of self-awareness and actual malevolence. For instance, when Sarah runs out of shells, it waves its finger at her, in an utterly un-robotic gesture. Perhaps it wanted to kill these presumptions humans with its own hands.

Or maybe it wasn't programmed to use anything larger than an SMG. Or maybe you're right and it was glitching. I don't know.

3. The T-800 fight scene at the start of the movie and the T-1000's interragation with Sarah Connor are much more different than you state. In the first scenario, the T-800 wasn't even damaged-simply slightly stunned, which means the T-1000 would have to fight it for some time to actually kill it, there were large numbers of people around (it was in a mall, after all). In Sarah's case, all the T-1000 would need is a second to transform its arm into a spear and *Thunk*. We know that the T-1000 kills at the drop of a hat-remember how it killed John's foster dad earlier?

Well, the T-800 was stunned for a surprisingly long time. And we know that joints and its neck are nearly as armored as its torso. It probably could have put it down for good at that point.

The suspension of disbelief items:

I don't know anything about the ST movies, so I'll have to concede to ignorance.

Ah, the music...hadn't thought of that...good point. Although it could be considered to be not part of the visuals, and therefore extraneous. Still, I agree here.

I didn't actually mention the music, only sound in space. But I suppose, if you were *really* anal about suspension of disbelief, you could argue that the worlds that different movies take place in all have powerful speakers all over the place constantly blaring music, which changes depending on what the main characters are doing.

Interesting stuff you've written here

1. I don't really like that theory. The T-1000 was walking fine, was shown to be completely recovered in the area of hand-to-hand combat a few seconds later, etc. It just doesn't hold much water.

2. Yeah, I've noticed the T-1000's 'evilness' too. However, prior to this point the T-1000 has not done something ludicrously stupid such as ignoring such useful weapons. It always seemed to focus on terminating John Connor at the exclusion of many other things. If he had taken those weapons, Game over man. Game over.

3. How could the T-1000 terminate it? The handgun does nothing, smashing it into walls/windows stuns it, the T-1000 never bothered in any of their encounters to stab the T-800 with its arms, so I'd assume it realized that would be futile. And didn't you just say the T-800 was heavily armored?


And about music...

Just Die ;(

[Shroom Man 777]

As for the T-1000 slowly trying to stab Sarah in the eye when he did it in a blink of an eye to Todd (John's foster father). The T-1000 was simply doing it slowly so maybe Sarah could give in and tell the T-1000 where John was when his finger was an inch from her eye.

[Omega-13]

I don't seriously see the T-1000 having much trouble here.

Its stunned by shotgun slugs from 10 feet away, who woudln't be? Arnold as the T-800 got knocked right on his ass from one in T1, when Reace pumped them into him, EVEN less I should add than it took to take down the T-1000.

These guys as I said in the T-800 vs Dutch thread wouldn't be standing shoulder to shoulder, they'd be spaced apart, in the jungle, and the first guy to be spotted by the T-1000 would be dead meat, only takes 1 bullet to take him down, ,or to injure him and take him out of battle. How many rounds are they going to put on the T-1000 when on their belly's shooting through thick jungle? 5? 10? each?

And they need to be 1 hit after the other rounds to do any serious 'stunning'

A grenade nearby isn't going to 'splash' the T-1000 to the 4 winds, its denser than thick wood normally (got throw into walls and headbutted without a scratch or indent)

it will stand there as scrapnel stick into it.

If the group combined can cause more damage than all the damage done to the T-1000 in T2, and then come, they might have a chance.
But these guys are bullet proof, and they use flashlights at night.

[mauldooku]

As for the T-1000 slowly trying to stab Sarah in the eye when he did it in a blink of an eye to Todd (John's foster father). The T-1000 was simply doing it slowly so maybe Sarah could give in and tell the T-1000 where John was when his finger was an inch from her eye.

Duh. But why did he LEAVE her there, after he was done? He had the ability to transform into her, which would allow him to reach John. Why did he not kill her, then? I know he's attacked by Ah-nuld, but after that he seems to have 'forgotten' about Sarah.

If he had killed her, it could be argued that he would NOT have been knocked into the steel by the grenade launcher.

[Omega-13]

As for the T-1000 slowly trying to stab Sarah in the eye when he did it in a blink of an eye to Todd (John's foster father). The T-1000 was simply doing it slowly so maybe Sarah could give in and tell the T-1000 where John was when his finger was an inch from her eye.

Duh. But why did he LEAVE her there, after he was done? He had the ability to transform into her, which would allow him to reach John. Why did he not kill her, then? I know he's attacked by Ah-nuld, but after that he seems to have 'forgotten' about Sarah.

If he had killed her, it could be argued that he would NOT have been knocked into the steel by the grenade launcher.

why would sarah stay in the same place?

[mauldooku]

As for the T-1000 slowly trying to stab Sarah in the eye when he did it in a blink of an eye to Todd (John's foster father). The T-1000 was simply doing it slowly so maybe Sarah could give in and tell the T-1000 where John was when his finger was an inch from her eye.

Duh. But why did he LEAVE her there, after he was done? He had the ability to transform into her, which would allow him to reach John. Why did he not kill her, then? I know he's attacked by Ah-nuld, but after that he seems to have 'forgotten' about Sarah.

If he had killed her, it could be argued that he would NOT have been knocked into the steel by the grenade launcher.

why would sarah stay in the same place?

Why would the T-1000 not find her? Her shotgun severly complicates his ability to terminate John-the T-1000 has been shot by it once before, he knows the strength of it, he SHOULD realize that with the amount of shots Sarah had, the humans have a chance to knock him into the steel (which he SHOULD realize will destroy him).

And its not like Sarah had all the time in the world to move around. Plus, she's wounded, she's carrying a heavy weapon, at MOST she can hobble. It wouldn't take the T-1000 much longer to find Sarah first.

And before you argue that John may have escaped-how? John had lost both of his protectors, had no vehicle, no weapon, cannot fight, etc. Even IF he manages to escape the steel mill, how far could he get before the T-1000 finishes with Sarah?

[Omega-13]

Why would the T-1000 not find her? Her shotgun severly complicates his ability to terminate John-the T-1000 has been shot by it once before, he knows the strength of it, he SHOULD realize that with the amount of shots Sarah had, the humans have a chance to knock him into the steel (which he SHOULD realize will destroy him).

i'm not arguing that trying to find her is a bad idea, but the T-1000 was dealing with the terminator, so she could have moved away, she had a gunshot wound, but motherly insticts are strong, she obviously found the strength to get out of there.

It wouldn't take the T-1000 much longer to find Sarah first.

and if he coudln't find her, she might escape with john,
turning into her was a good move, that brings both of them to him, which he wants, he wants john, and im sure would have been good to kill aswell

I woudln't argue john would have escaped, that was a do or die situation in there, they either killed it or died.

[Admiral Valdemar]

All points considered, yes, the T-1000 is stunned by kientic impacts of sufficient intensity like a hail of bullets and thus needs a second or two to reboot as it were and reform. Quite why it didn't have the ability to allow the bullets to simply pass through I don't know.

I always assumed the T-1000 was like the Culture EDust assassin but on a lower tech scale. Ignoring the mimetic polyalloy and molecular encoding stuff, it's far more realistic if the thing was made of nanomachines and MEMS instead, it would explain distributed intelligence shown (neural nets with these machines, like DNA computers, showing greater intellect in greater masses) power systems as well, photosynthesis like devices exist at the nanoscale that allow the machines to power themselves or maybe even chemical based (machines exist that "eat" organic nurtrients for food).

And despite my not seeing T3 yet, I have heard the T-X is overrated and nothing to the T-1000, but I still prefer EDust.

[mauldooku]

Why would the T-1000 not find her? Her shotgun severly complicates his ability to terminate John-the T-1000 has been shot by it once before, he knows the strength of it, he SHOULD realize that with the amount of shots Sarah had, the humans have a chance to knock him into the steel (which he SHOULD realize will destroy him).

i'm not arguing that trying to find her is a bad idea, but the T-1000 was dealing with the terminator, so she could have moved away, she had a gunshot wound, but motherly insticts are strong, she obviously found the strength to get out of there.

It wouldn't take the T-1000 much longer to find Sarah first.

and if he coudln't find her, she might escape with john,
turning into her was a good move, that brings both of them to him, which he wants, he wants john, and im sure would have been good to kill aswell

I woudln't argue john would have escaped, that was a do or die situation in there, they either killed it or died.

Can you FUCKING READ?!

Sarah had multiple gunshot wounds, a stab wound that wasn't exactly deep so much that it WENT THROUGH HER FUCKING SHOULDER and stuck in the metal behind her.

Obviously, she was not nearly as mobile as you state. How long was the T-1000 dealing with the Terminator, hmmm? How far could she go in that condition, lugging around a heavy shotgun, on top of it?

Now, you state taht turning into her was a 'good move' as it would bring both of them together.

*Bzzt* Wrong.

True, it would lure John to the T-1000, and trick it into moving closer. False, it would trick Sarah! What the HELL do you think Sarah immediately realized, seeing a copy of herself calling out to John, with the T-1000 apparently vanished?

By the way, you contradicted yourself. First, you state that 'she might escape with John' (as to how a child and a severly wounded woman would escape the T-1000 assuming they could even reach ground floor of the steel mill, considering that they had no access to vehicles, and their only method of slowing the T-1000 down consisted of, what, 5 shotgun shells?). And yet in the next few sentences, you say 'I won't argue John will escape, it was a do-or-die situation.'

Face it, although the T-1000 is a competent assassin with an excellent ability to resist conventional 21st century weapons, suffering miniscule damage (if that), he is far from invincibile. Freezing and shattering him not only effectively destroyed his camaflouge ability, but it also seriously weakened his ability to think logically, process realistic threats to itself, etc.

[mauldooku]

All points considered, yes, the T-1000 is stunned by kientic impacts of sufficient intensity like a hail of bullets and thus needs a second or two to reboot as it were and reform. Quite why it didn't have the ability to allow the bullets to simply pass through I don't know.

I always assumed the T-1000 was like the Culture EDust assassin but on a lower tech scale. Ignoring the mimetic polyalloy and molecular encoding stuff, it's far more realistic if the thing was made of nanomachines and MEMS instead, it would explain distributed intelligence shown (neural nets with these machines, like DNA computers, showing greater intellect in greater masses) power systems as well, photosynthesis like devices exist at the nanoscale that allow the machines to power themselves or maybe even chemical based (machines exist that "eat" organic nurtrients for food).

And despite my not seeing T3 yet, I have heard the T-X is overrated and nothing to the T-1000, but I still prefer EDust.

Although the T-X is not 'godly' in any way, IMO it was actually a better choice for assassination. Its plasma cannon can deal with the T-800/850 surprisingly well (I'm still unsure of why, as it seems to impart a heck of a lot of KE but little thermal energy). The fact that it has a metal endoskeleton sacrifices durability, but it gives it the all-important ability to resist being stunned by 21st small arms/rifles/etc. Imagine how many times the T-1000 would have assassinated John if the bullets fired at it by Ah-nuld and Sarah didn't slow it down at all.

The T-X's weakness, it seems, was mainly its inability to think
It makes several rather stupid decisions that cost it the opportunity to kill John, Katherine, or both.

Oh, yeah, and it seems that the T-X can only fire its weapons in its 'default' morph of hot bitch (which may make it a slightly worse choice for infiltration+assassination). Either that or the T-X is really farking retarded.

To sum it up: The nanoprobes are an idiotic idea

Oh, and T2 is by far the better movie.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I had no doubt about T3 being a lesser movie than T2, no Cameron wannabe can top that guy's genius.

But the T-1000 was quite stupid in a strategic way too in most respects, but to be honest, I'd rather have a T-1000 fight with me than against me anyday.

[Omega-13]

Obviously, she was not nearly as mobile as you state. How long was the T-1000 dealing with the Terminator, hmmm? How far could she go in that condition, lugging around a heavy shotgun, on top of it?

well to correct you, Sarah only took 1 hit in the thigh from a MP5. So only 1 gunshot wound, It took 1 minutes and 46 seconds for the T-1000 to take down the T-800, so enough time to slither away and hide someplace,

It was a good move to turn into Sarah for a few reasons
1. John hears his moms name calling, so he goes to find her
2. Sarah hears her OWN name, realzies that john might get tricked and goes to find him or the t-1000. So either way they are going to all come together, exactly what the terminator wanted.

I also didn't contradict myself, I said that john would not escape and live, where as I said, ,Sarah AND john might get away.

[Omega-13]

The fact that it has a metal endoskeleton sacrifices durability, but it gives it the all-important ability to resist being stunned by 21st small arms/rifles/etc. Imagine how many times the T-1000 would have assassinated John if the bullets fired at it by Ah-nuld and Sarah didn't slow it down at all.

we saw that in T1 Arnold was resistant to 5.56 and 9mm, not shotgun blasts, and he went through the front of the bar window. IN less rounds than infact took down the t-1000.
The t-800 is more sturdy, ,but cannot regenerate, or infiltrate.
Think about this, how would Reece have done against the t-1000?
Wouldn't have happened, the T-1000 would have walked into the cop station without a sweat and stabbed her in the eyeball.

Same with the T-X.

[mauldooku]

Obviously, she was not nearly as mobile as you state. How long was the T-1000 dealing with the Terminator, hmmm? How far could she go in that condition, lugging around a heavy shotgun, on top of it?

well to correct you, Sarah only took 1 hit in the thigh from a MP5. So only 1 gunshot wound, It took 1 minutes and 46 seconds for the T-1000 to take down the T-800, so enough time to slither away and hide someplace,

It was a good move to turn into Sarah for a few reasons
1. John hears his moms name calling, so he goes to find her
2. Sarah hears her OWN name, realzies that john might get tricked and goes to find him or the t-1000. So either way they are going to all come together, exactly what the terminator wanted.

I also didn't contradict myself, I said that john would not escape and live, where as I said, ,Sarah AND john might get away.

Well, about the gunshot wound, I'll have to watch the scene again. More of a nitpick than anything, she's still severely wounded, bleeding internally from the T-1000's poke of doom, etc.

Ok, 1 minute and 46 seconds. You honestly think Sarah had enough time to travel far, lugging her shotgun? We see in the scene where she's blasting the T-1000 that she can barely walk! Note that she's still bleeding. Not too hard to follow the trail (yet another stupid move on the T-1000's part).

About the T-1000's transformation into Sarah-

This would have been game over if the T-1000 had killed Sarah first. If he was luring Sarah to defend John, why was he so surprised when he got blasted? Why did he focus utterly and completely on John in this scene, not even checking his back?

It gets better. You then state that, if John and Sarah met up, they could get away.


Just one question for you: HOW? Sarah's badly wounded, which means that unless John leaves her behind (which, going by the risk he took rescuing her early on, his opinion of her, etc. he isn't going to do). If the T-1000 catches up to our hobbling Heroes, the only technique they'll have to slow him down is 5-odd shotgun shells. Thyeh ave no access to vehicles. In short, they were fucked.

[mauldooku]

The fact that it has a metal endoskeleton sacrifices durability, but it gives it the all-important ability to resist being stunned by 21st small arms/rifles/etc. Imagine how many times the T-1000 would have assassinated John if the bullets fired at it by Ah-nuld and Sarah didn't slow it down at all.

we saw that in T1 Arnold was resistant to 5.56 and 9mm, not shotgun blasts, and he went through the front of the bar window. IN less rounds than infact took down the t-1000.
The t-800 is more sturdy, ,but cannot regenerate, or infiltrate.
Think about this, how would Reece have done against the t-1000?
Wouldn't have happened, the T-1000 would have walked into the cop station without a sweat and stabbed her in the eyeball.

Same with the T-X.

Not at all. If the T-1000 walked into the cop station, the T-1000 would be stunned by the gun fire long enough (they're using both magnums AND assault rifles. As we saw in T2, Assault Rifles and the T-1000 don't mix).

You think the T-1000 would be allowed in the cop station without the proper credentials? The only ID he would have has an incorrect picture on it.

About the metal endoskeleton- Yes, in T1, Ah-nuld knocked down by shotgun shells. However, as we see in T3, the T-X is stronger than the T-800 in pretty much every way (Note the T-850 doing piledrives on the T-X, while the T-X just sorta shoves the T-850 and it goes flying!). I don't remember if the T-X was hit by shotgun blasts in T3, nor do I have evidence for a tougher endoskeleton off the top of my head. Still, even assuming the T-X's endoskeleton has the strength of a T-800's, the resistance 9mm and 5.56 is quite a large advantage.

[NecronLord]

The T-1000 was indeed damaged by the liquid nitrogen. However, the reason it walks slowly is because it was merging with the floor, thus creating a lot of friction.

It didn't let SC keep the shotgun, it knocked it out of her hands, what do you want him to do? Go and drop it into the pit and let her escape?

All points considered, yes, the T-1000 is stunned by kientic impacts of sufficient intensity like a hail of bullets and thus needs a second or two to reboot as it were and reform. Quite why it didn't have the ability to allow the bullets to simply pass through I don't know.

With shotguns the splatter would remove it's mass, slowing it down even more. It could and did in some instances. (There's a hole in it's head at one point)

I always assumed the T-1000 was like the Culture EDust assassin but on a lower tech scale.

Physically, Computationally Skynet is about a million times more advanced than a Mind... (see T£ revalations thread)

Ignoring the mimetic polyalloy and molecular encoding stuff, it's far more realistic if the thing was made of nanomachines and MEMS instead, it would explain distributed intelligence shown (neural nets with these machines, like DNA computers, showing greater intellect in greater masses) power systems as well, photosynthesis like devices exist at the nanoscale that allow the machines to power themselves or maybe even chemical based (machines exist that "eat" organic nurtrients for food).

And despite my not seeing T3 yet, I have heard the T-X is overrated and nothing to the T-1000,

Not at all. It is far more durable than the T-1000, surviving heat which burned away Memetic Polyalloy.

but I still prefer EDust.

*Shrug*

[mauldooku]

The T-1000 was indeed damaged by the liquid nitrogen. However, the reason it walks slowly is because it was merging with the floor, thus creating a lot of friction.

It didn't let SC keep the shotgun, it knocked it out of her hands, what do you want him to do? Go and drop it into the pit and let her escape?

All points considered, yes, the T-1000 is stunned by kientic impacts of sufficient intensity like a hail of bullets and thus needs a second or two to reboot as it were and reform. Quite why it didn't have the ability to allow the bullets to simply pass through I don't know.

With shotguns the splatter would remove it's mass, slowing it down even more. It could and did in some instances. (There's a hole in it's head at one point)

I always assumed the T-1000 was like the Culture EDust assassin but on a lower tech scale.

Physically, Computationally Skynet is about a million times more advanced than a Mind... (see T£ revalations thread)

Ignoring the mimetic polyalloy and molecular encoding stuff, it's far more realistic if the thing was made of nanomachines and MEMS instead, it would explain distributed intelligence shown (neural nets with these machines, like DNA computers, showing greater intellect in greater masses) power systems as well, photosynthesis like devices exist at the nanoscale that allow the machines to power themselves or maybe even chemical based (machines exist that "eat" organic nurtrients for food).

And despite my not seeing T3 yet, I have heard the T-X is overrated and nothing to the T-1000,

Not at all. It is far more durable than the T-1000, surviving heat which burned away Memetic Polyalloy.

but I still prefer EDust.

*Shrug*

First off: Evidence for 'merging with the floor?'

About Sarah-Yes, that is EXACTLY what it should have done (taking the shotgun, keeping it would actually be better, probably)! The T-1000 knows that the shotgun may be a danger to it, he knows the T-800 is still active, he knows the T-800 is rather strong and should have been able to release itself in time, etc.

I again the question the logic which states that Sarah may 'escape'.

By the way, the T-1000 seemed much more light on its feet during its fights with the T-800 in the steel mill, no evidence for merging there.

[Rye]

First off: Evidence for 'merging with the floor?'

In the liquid nitrogen scene, he gets stuck to it, and later hid feet keep momentarily glitching when they touch the floor, when he impersonates sarah connor later too, connor notices it's the t1000 due to it's feet being merged with the floor.

About Sarah-Yes, that is EXACTLY what it should have done (taking the shotgun, keeping it would actually be better, probably)! The T-1000 knows that the shotgun may be a danger to it, he knows the T-800 is still active, he knows the T-800 is rather strong and should have been able to release itself in time, etc.

Er, no, it rammed a pole through it's powercell resutling in lightning flying all over the shop, the t1000 clearly thought the t800 was dead enough or at least severly incapicitated enough to resume it's mission to get connor. He perhaps thought it was unnecessary to pick up an unloaded shotgun when the two humans that remained had no weapons.

By the way, the T-1000 seemed much more light on its feet during its fights with the T-800 in the steel mill, no evidence for merging there.

Have you seen the special edition? he merges with all sorts of surfaces when he glitches.

[mauldooku]

First off: Evidence for 'merging with the floor?'

In the liquid nitrogen scene, he gets stuck to it, and later hid feet keep momentarily glitching when they touch the floor, when he impersonates sarah connor later too, connor notices it's the t1000 due to it's feet being merged with the floor.

About Sarah-Yes, that is EXACTLY what it should have done (taking the shotgun, keeping it would actually be better, probably)! The T-1000 knows that the shotgun may be a danger to it, he knows the T-800 is still active, he knows the T-800 is rather strong and should have been able to release itself in time, etc.

Er, no, it rammed a pole through it's powercell resutling in lightning flying all over the shop, the t1000 clearly thought the t800 was dead enough or at least severly incapicitated enough to resume it's mission to get connor. He perhaps thought it was unnecessary to pick up an unloaded shotgun when the two humans that remained had no weapons.

By the way, the T-1000 seemed much more light on its feet during its fights with the T-800 in the steel mill, no evidence for merging there.

Have you seen the special edition? he merges with all sorts of surfaces when he glitches.

He stuck to the liquid nitrogen, however, I was under the impression that his extremeties mimicked the color/texture of items they touched (floor, railing, etc.), not 'merging' with them. Its been years since I've seen the special edition.

About the T-800- I was talking about when he finds Sarah, after the first battle with the T-800 in the steel mill (when the T-800's arm is stuck in the machine, and there's a crowbar next to him).

About the shotgun...this fails for two reasons-

1. When he first finds Sarah, he has a chance to pick up the shotgun and throw it into the steel. He should've realized that the T-800 would recover and come after him...and that if he took the time to deal with the T-800, giving Sarah a chance to escape, she would keep her shotgun and load it.

2. The shotgun, although unloaded, had 5-6 shells which could be easily loaded. After 'shutting off' the T-800, shouldn't the T-1000 notice the missing shotgun?

[Omega-13]

Just to respond to Badme's comment

Dr silvermen walked out the door in T1,
if that was the T-1000, silverman would have been killed outside in the parking lot, and then the t-1000 would have taken his shape, and went back into the police station

sarah dies

[mauldooku]

Just to respond to Badme's comment

Dr silvermen walked out the door in T1,
if that was the T-1000, silverman would have been killed outside in the parking lot, and then the t-1000 would have taken his shape, and went back into the police station

sarah dies

Wow, let's play a game of 'Substitute the T-1000 into the best possible situation for him to show off that he's UBER 1337!!!11one'.