Read this

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-08-03 03:24pm

Bingo, I'll get to the point. This is a VS forum, hence the word verse , it is not meant to uphold your personal beliefs about ST and its pathetic tech. It is meant to pit SW and ST together in combat. And what if the worst of Wars can beat the best of Trek, this is a debate forum thats what we are here to discuss. So you can take your delusional moral issues and put em where the sun dont shine, cause nobody gives a damn about how "Big bad Wars beats us until our heads bleed, they are all ignorant fanboys now! Im gonna go trolling now to piss em off, and do a shitty job of it!"

Quite frankly Bingo, bite me.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-08-03 03:25pm

TRECKNOLOGY

Ah would you be one of the fools that belive that kirks radio is a mobile phone?. Hahahaha Or that anyone would design a manned ship with minimal failsafes and a 'warp core' that breaks when tapped. Or the mystery of a Second degree plasma burn? Get real, Trecknology is a plot hook box with flashing lights at least it's honest.

Star trek is not about battles, Heh
ST-1, No battle, enemy too powerful for it to be interesting
ST-2 Battle
ST-3 Battle
ST-4, No battle, enemy too powerful for it to be interesting
ST-5 Battle, of sorts
ST-6 Battle
ST-FC, "Yeee Haw"
ST-7 battle
Nemesis, "YEE HAWWW!"

Voyager TV Movies
Dark Frontier Battle, if short
Unimatrix Zero Battle

"Lucas ripped off star trek"

Errrr How? It's far closer to a 50's seriel than to Trek

and by the way I recommend that you buy STAR TREK PHASE II The lost series. which is about the series that eventually became TMP. (although its a bit of a big book, for you 360 pages...) See Page 64, The 'Warp drive optical effect' as seen in TMP is infact inspired by SW hyperdrive. {For the regulars; is this a possible explanation for how Kirk's ship reaches the center of the galaxy in Trek V?

}

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-08-03 03:48pm

Explain how Star Wars ripped off Star Trek in any meaningful way. About the only similarities I can see is that they both have spaceships and ray guns.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-03 03:58pm

For some people Discipline is a lesson for others it is a lifetime
~Fliry Vorru

Some people can be told somthing once and they will understand it, others must have it beat over thier head

Another ST is better person shows up, Another ST is Better person leaves, the cylcie is completed over and over agian at least twice a day

Do you know on avarage how many Emails Mr Wong gets from NEW idiots every single day who think thier tenth grade education and access to the web is supperior to Mr Wong's Engineering Degree?

How many people do I see come here every day with thier Associats degree in Arts Interpretation and try to spout off to us they know more than we do?

If not for the fact I've never gotten around to making a cheat sheet of prepared aurgments and counter-aurgments because you all basicly say the same thing I would not be typing this.

Three basic types, The Wall of Ignorace kind who have gotten something into thier head and nothing short of a tatical nuclear strike will convince them its not true

The subset of this is the Parrot who simply repeats your own aurgments back to you without modifincation and demands you explain what you already explained

Two the Oh yeah types? Who combine one example or two and a healthy dose of I know you not but what am I debating tatics to present a seriously annoying precance

And thirdly the pure Trolls, Those that seek to cause chaos and descruction while contripbited nothing at all.

Mr Wong is a Blallistic Engineer with to much time on his hands who wanted to figure out how much power the ISD guns needed to Destroy those Astroids and what Ground Troops the Empire Possed and a host of other things.

People do it all the time except Mr Wong acutaly knew how do run the calcutations and not some nine-teen year old living in his parents basement yerk of style of calcuating things

And then the idiots arose and charge Wong to Defend everything, And so he did, And prehaps to his suprize prehaps not, He Won, every single debate, thus his website stood the test of time and the wave's of idiots and he being board decided to create a webboard and observer what was said and what was going on
Well here we around Wave of Idiots Round's Five and Six just came through looks like we are begining Round Seven. User99,Sithgod, Darkling, John Clark, John and a few more have already fallen by the wayside

This is just one more of those days..

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-08-03 04:08pm

I don't usually weigh in on these things but a gree with Mr Bean completely on this. Since I am a Electronics Engineer (I have a degree now) and i have done extensive research on lasers for my Major as well as particle Beams, ect if i hear one more Trekky with the "Federation Ships are Immune to Lasers" thing again i'm going to scream.

That's my 2-bits

Bingo · Post by **Bingo** » 2002-08-03 04:11pm

Listen, throught all of this, you guys have proved my points about what I wrote first about. See you later.

Oh by the way, just because a ship appears after another doesn't mean it's the newset. Check this out and see www.ditl.org

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-08-03 04:14pm

Bingo wrote:Listen, throught all of this, you guys have proved my points about what I wrote first about. See you later.

Oh by the way, just because a ship appears after another doesn't mean it's the newset. Check this out and see www.ditl.org

Yet when they say it's the newest, ie Enterprise-E, then it is.

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-08-03 04:16pm

Bingo wrote:Listen, throught all of this, you guys have proved my points about what I wrote first about. See you later.

Oh by the way, just because a ship appears after another doesn't mean it's the newset. Check this out and see www.ditl.org

You have just linked hte biggest peice crap on the web to this site. That site contradicts Trek so much it's laughable.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-03 04:22pm

Graham Kennedy!?!??!
You acutal posted the link to that putrid pile of Crap that is his work? Even other ST Debators shun him and his yank-fest web site

*laughing soo hard can't stop

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-08-03 04:24pm

Mr Bean wrote:Graham Kennedy!?!??!
You acutal posted the link to that putrid pile of Crap that is his work? Even other ST Debators shun him and his yank-fest web site

*laughing soo hard can't stop

Well I have made that mistake too so don't be so hard on him

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-08-03 04:25pm

Bingo wrote:Listen, throught all of this, you guys have proved my points about what I wrote first about. See you later.

Oh by the way, just because a ship appears after another doesn't mean it's the newset. Check this out and see www.ditl.org

Portal??!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! MAKE...IT...Go...AWAY...PAIN...OVERWHELMING!!!

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-08-03 04:44pm

*shoots Stravo repeatedly in the head*

There, there... Calm.. Calm...

*uses a minigun to make sure*

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-08-03 04:45pm

Naah, it's just GK's main page.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-08-03 05:01pm

heh why respond to valid points when you can act superior eh?

Christ this guy is a grade A dipshit trekkie.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-08-03 05:05pm

SirNitram wrote:*shoots Stravo repeatedly in the head*

There, there... Calm.. Calm...

*uses a minigun to make sure*

NOOOOOOO! Now we'll never get to see the end of his fanfic!

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2002-08-03 05:07pm

Ripped shirt Stravo wipes blood from the corner of his mouth and starts to crawl away....

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-08-03 05:20pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:
SirNitram wrote:*shoots Stravo repeatedly in the head*

There, there... Calm.. Calm...

*uses a minigun to make sure*
NOOOOOOO! Now we'll never get to see the end of his fanfic!

Put some ice on it, rip his shirt, and give him a cookie. He'll be writing in the morning.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-08-03 05:28pm

Ripped shirt Stravo wipes blood from the corner of his mouth and starts to crawl away....

up a mountain to construct a primitive hand canon from things lying on the ground.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-08-03 05:32pm

Cpt_Frank wrote:
Ripped shirt Stravo wipes blood from the corner of his mouth and starts to crawl away....
up a mountain to construct a primitive hand canon from things lying on the ground.

Well if ripped shirt stravo happens to meet McGuyver the happy mountain detective he can make much more than a cannon. It would only take a pair of chattering joke teeth, two chipmunks, and perscription brand nasal-spray.

Quite obvious really!

Bingo · Post by **Bingo** » 2002-08-03 08:28pm

This is much worse than I thought. It just isn't possible to be more narrow-minded, ignorant and intolerant than you guys over here. Of course, if someone comes along to a closed community and make some critical remarks, he is subject to be flamed.

I you made all valid points - or at least points that can be taken into consideration and commented. But instead of listening you only come up with your usual prejudices and completely irrelevant finding, and take it down to insults. I once made a quite similar experience with fanatic followers in a forum where I posted (although the topic was not scifi but something completely different).

And what are the threats about my name and IP about? Since when is it required to reveal one's real name and IP to everyone? Wong's law? Bannification becuase of a different opinion? WHat happened to the Constiution?

This place is a stinking hell of fascist assholes. If Wong has any common sense left, he should close this down, for the benefit of the whole SW fandom which is damaging its own reputation here.

You know, if you would actually read some of the stuff Mr. Kennedy has written there you might learn something and prove yourselves wrong. If you know so much about Trek, why come you can be so wrong in your (biased) flames?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2002-08-03 08:36pm

Dude, Bingo: WHO CARES

SirNitram · Post by **SirNitram** » 2002-08-03 08:41pm

Bingo: Your superiority complex continues. You beleive yourself to be infallible, incorrectable, and think GK is correct in many ways. Here's a hint: He's been discredited for years. We've read his stuff, sickeningly stupid as it is, and have refuted most of it. He doesn't change it because, despite being wrong, he refuses to admit defeat. It's called Invincible Ignorance.

And, of course, since you have only your dogma and no facts to back any of your nonsense up, you just start complaining we're closed minded, that we're wrong, that we don't read the stuff, that we are at fault for everything.

In short, fuck you. Try reading SD.NET and learning from /that/.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-08-03 08:42pm

Captian Obvious to the Rescue!

Cease and desist your Ill-logic Bingo or prepare to be mocked!
In order of apperance

This is much worse than I thought. It just isn't possible to be more narrow-minded, ignorant and intolerant than you guys over here. Of course, if someone comes along to a closed community and make some critical remarks, he is subject to be flamed.

Citical Thoughtful Remarks
Flame? No
The same thing twenty OTHER people have already said
Flame? YES
You just don't get there have already been roughly eight people who said near EXACTLY the same things you do, We have already delt with these people and some of us(Like a certian Break-dancing Black mage)simply get board with the normal you are wrong why and try and see if simple brute force(You are an idiot shut the hell up for example) works
Sometimes yes, sometimes no, In the end the result is the same, Someone who thinks the entire board is out to get them and is flaming them, And the entire board having a good laugh at the self-centered Naviaty of said person.

And what are the threats about my name and IP about? Since when is it required to reveal one's real name and IP to everyone? Wong's law? Bannification becuase of a different opinion? WHat happened to the Constiution?

The IP Tracer was me because I'm honsetly intrested in learning what Country the person I'm talking to(And prehaps state and city) lives in
Furthmore I happen to keep a know list of IP's of Current Idiots to prevent another John Clark from getting through

Read up on Old John Clark here, He was know as the ASU-Coward before he came here and adapted the name John Clark
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Creationis ... ward.shtml
Thirdly the Constitution never provides for your Privacy and a face it, The ease of somone like myself finding out your email address using it as a base point and evnuatly tracking your IP back to your ISP if not your home computer is childes play for some people

This place is a stinking hell of fascist assholes. If Wong has any common sense left, he should close this down, for the benefit of the whole SW fandom which is damaging its own reputation here.

Now your just being an idiot

You know, if you would actually read some of the stuff Mr. Kennedy has written there you might learn something and prove yourselves wrong. If you know so much about Trek, why come you can be so wrong in your (biased) flames?

*Must contain...
Ahh hell with it
Pif HAHAHAHAHHHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH!H!
Ahh thats a good one, You know the entire Grame Kennedy thing is a joke? Outside of know idiots HE HAS NO SUPPORTERS
And I'm sorry Captian Obvious but who do you trust more, The Associate Degree in Teahing GK? Teacher or the Collage Degree Holding in ENGINEERING Lord Wong who happens to work as a Ballstics Engineer
Gee thats a tough one

Oh and for your information they don't kid on those internet sites where they say you can find anything out about anyone, With enough free time you can, Why anyone would bother?(Their a sick fuck maybe?) I don't know
But to repeat another point the Constitiuion never mentions your right to Privacy and furthermore if the person in question is outside the US, Depending on Local Laws, you can't do jack shit about it.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2002-08-03 08:57pm

just for my own vindication I use Star Trek references to make my points. and I never flame.

SPOOFE · Post by **SPOOFE** » 2002-08-03 09:02pm

Let's examine the OP point-by-point, shall we?

Star Trek was founded by Gene Roddenberry as a vision that humanity could improve beyond differences over land or supplies, that they could overcome language barriers and cultral taboos.

Er, no. Star Trek was created to be a "Western in Space" (or a "Wagon Train to the Stars"). He didn't give a crap about "visions" or "overcoming differences". He wanted to give people mass entertainment.

Star Trek is not about battles, special effects, (ot that they aren't welcome ) like Star Wars is.

Wrongo. In TOS, you'd have a significant space battle every other episode. Refer to the likes of The Ultimate Computer, in which there is at least twenty minutes of space battle (a third of the episode's running time). Take note of how Kirk is considered by the fans to be "the best hand-to-hand fighter", and the image of Kirk is one that constantly has his shirt ripped from fighting.

Star Trek is fantasy. So is Star Wars. One of the messages in Star Wars is that life and humanity is greater than soulless technology (hence the superiority of the Force over "the ultimate power in the universe" at the end of ANH). To say that Star Wars is just about "battles" or "special effects" is spurious bigotism to the extreme.

Star Wars, by all means, is good to watch and I have no problem with it. It is fan boys like you, which you think by bashing Trek is uphailing the name of Wars, is actually dragging the name of it down.

Again, wrongo. By bashing Trek, we express what we consider to be negative about Trek. In TNG (and DS9), there were fewer criticisms. By the time Voyager rolled around, the series was a pile of freshly-felched goat shit. Bashing Trek has nothing to do with Star Wars.

I personally think you are so stubborn and stuck up and afraid that Star Wars might not be as popular as it was in the 80's that you purposefully compare the worst elements of Trek (nothing cant be the best all the time) to the best of Star Wars to prove pure fanboy belief that you have.

Once again, wrongo. We compare the mean average of Trek to the mean average of Wars. The difference is with Trek's medium... TV shows. There's a lot more of it to criticise. Star Wars, so far, has had, what, ten hours of screen time? Compare that to Trek's 300 or so hours.

I personally don't care how popular Star Wars is, and to imply that all I care about is its popularity is insulting and, again, bigoted. Do Culture fans care if their favorite series is reknown the world over? What about Niven fans, or Adams fans?

Why not compare the worst of Wars and the Best of Trek and see how you like it.

Feel free. The worst of Wars is.... what, now? How many times do you hear a SW movie or novel refer to finding "cracks in a black hole's event horizon"? How often do you find major internal inconsistencies to the point where fictional weapons yields vary wildly episode to episode (at one point, 200 isotons is considered a standard yield... a bit later, 80 isotons is considered amazingly huge and "enough to blow up a small moon").

The simple fact of the matter is that the worst Trek is far below the standards of the worst SW... IF you stick only to filmed material. Go delve into some of the really crappy SW novels and comic books. And take note that Warsies mock the worst SW as well as the worst ST.

The simple fact of the matter is that the fanatical Trekkies - of which you are one - are overly defensive about their series, and are unable to admit to its shortcomings. They consider Trek to be "superior" and "enlightened", because the pretty technology in the show is full of blue lights and LCD's.

Actually, your Technoloigcal arguments are falsicated because you dont understand Treknology. Go read Treknology at EAS (www.ex-astris-scientia.org) and have your arguments then.

Been there, done that. Treknology is internally inconsistent and works more like "magic" than science. Treknobabble - creating a name for an object by making a string of "advanced" sounding words - is prevalent in the Trek universe. We understand Treknology... the fact of the matter is that it's shallow, devoid of substance, and the result of crappy, lazy writing.

Actually, Mr. Lucas got ideas for Star Wars by watching Trek, you know.

I'm sure he did. He got ideas for Star Wars from many different mediums. He also got ideas from Flash Gordon and Metropolis.

Know where Roddenberry got his ideas? Two places... established sci-fi sources, and Westerns. Kirk is supposed to be a cowboy.

Actually, it all comes down to that you have your heads up your asses so much that you wont accept anything different than Wars, and anything shlightly off your opinion you bash mindlessly using a bad combination of fact and fasification because you are scared to admit that just because you like Wars better than other Sci-fi, others are just as good oand other people have opinions different than you.

Are you any better? Look at your own behavior... bashing the Warsies because they don't like Trek. You are a hypocrite of the first order, sir.

Further, "bashing Trek" does not equate with "bashing other sci-fi", since Trek most certainly is NOT science fiction. It is space opera, just like Star Wars. It is a Western fantasy in space, nothing more.

I have no problems admitting that I like SW more than (most) other sci-fi. I like it more than Trek, that's for damned sure.

Imagine how bland the world would be if everybody wore the same thing.

Like in Star Trek?

You're falling victim to the "fallacy of the excluded middle". The world does not consist of just Star Wars and Star Trek. Expand your horizons, child, because you obviously have not experienced much in life. I enjoy numerous sci-fi and/or space opera series... SW is just one of them. I also enjoy ST. I just happen to maintain a realistic outlook, and don't delude myself into thinking that I am so great and superior of a being that I can only like things that are perfect and flawless. Clearly, you are not capable of maintaining such a realistic outlook. I pity you.

But I think you should be ashamed of yourselves and get it out of our bloated head that other people may not agree with you and encourage dicussion about it and not uselass flames comprised of what you think and not wat is actually is.

Now this is silly. Wanna back up these assertions, Chucklehead? Because, frankly, all I'm seeing on this website is "Wee, Star Wars is stronger than Star Trek!" Period. Does the quality of a series depend on the strength of its weaponry? Let's examine:

-Total Annihilation would whup Starcraft in a fight, yet I love Starcraft much more.

-Macross would whup Battletech in a fight, yet I love Battletech much more.

Clearly, you are of the mindset that "better" means "better in every imaginable possible way". All that this website establishes is that SW has some stronger weapons, shields, and faster FTL drive. You obviously take that to mean that we believe that SW is superior in every possible way (granted, I think it also has a better story, but that's beside the point).

This is much worse than I thought. It just isn't possible to be more narrow-minded, ignorant and intolerant than you guys over here.

Then I guess you'll fit in quite nicely. You're interpreting our difference of opinion as "you guys have your heads up your asses". Listen up, Chucklehead... you're wrong.

I you made all valid points - or at least points that can be taken into consideration and commented.

And you think you're the first one to have done this? Your ego is actually so huge that you see yourself as some great Holy Avenger, coming to destroy ignorance wherever it may reside? As I said before, Chucklehead... been there, done that. Your message is old news. It's getting tiresome.

But instead of listening you only come up with your usual prejudices and completely irrelevant finding, and take it down to insults.

This thread was never ABOVE insults, buckaroo. You started in your OP by casting blanket aspersions and generalized insults over a huge group of people based solely on faulty, minimal evidence. Clearly, you are the bigot here.

This place is a stinking hell of fascist assholes. If Wong has any common sense left, he should close this down, for the benefit of the whole SW fandom which is damaging its own reputation here.

So I take it that your entire message is "If you don't agree with me, you're an inferior person and have no common sense"? What a bigoted egotistical goatfelcher you are. Take a hike, you smattering of feces-ridden congealing Hobbit semen.