65 girls knocked up at OH high school

[Jalinth]

Take Odessa. This place is so rural they were trying to have a Bible class added to the curriculum and were succeeding! I'm not sure what the student body size was but they had enough students to be a 5A school. Competes at my own high schools level(though in a far removed district) and my high school was in a highly suburbanized area with more than 3500 students in all, when I graduated. There were 750 Seniors and we were the "small" class.

The size of the school is irrelevant when considering the "ruralism" of a particular area.

Agreed. Urban high schools can be relatively small (mine had only 800 total from 9 to Grade 13), to very large (2,500 plus) just depending on the board of education and the demographics. And I grew up right next to the city of Ottawa, so should be considered urban.

Population density is a better way of viewing whether an area is urban - the lower the density, the more either rural or exurb it is.

[fgalkin]

The Banning split to Parting Shots.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[Wicked Pilot]

I'm not sure how much it matters anymore, but looking at Canton on the maps.google page it appears to be pretty urban.

[The Spartan]

I'm not sure how much it matters anymore, but looking at Canton on the maps.google page it appears to be pretty urban.

Perhaps. But the population size (80000) suggests a less urban and more rural mindset.

The insistance of using AO sex ed clinches it though.

[Wicked Pilot]

The insistance of using AO sex ed clinches it though.

My thoughts exactly.

[Darth Wong]

I'm not sure how much it matters anymore, but looking at Canton on the maps.google page it appears to be pretty urban.

Compared to what? Its county has an average population density of 271 people per square kilometre, including Canton. When a town of 80,000 is the local hub, you're definitely talking about a rural area.

[Wicked Pilot]

Its county has an average population density of 271 people per square kilometre, including Canton. When a town of 80,000 is the local hub, you're definitely talking about a rural area.

Looking at the map it's connected to Akron, which is connected to Cleveland, which is clear cut urban. Perhaps if I'd actually lived there I could tell you the proportion of urban to rural influences, but I've never set foot in Ohio and thus can't offer you that information.

[Darth Wong]

Its county has an average population density of 271 people per square kilometre, including Canton. When a town of 80,000 is the local hub, you're definitely talking about a rural area.

Looking at the map it's connected to Akron, which is connected to Cleveland, which is clear cut urban. Perhaps if I'd actually lived there I could tell you the proportion of urban to rural influences, but I've never set foot in Ohio and thus can't offer you that information.

The distance between Cleveland and Canton is similar to the distance between Toronto and Guelph here in Ontario Canada, and Guelphers definitely don't consider themselves urbanites, nor should they. I've been there.

Besides, the population density for Stark County is the killer, because if it was anything resembling a densely populated suburb, it would not be possible to have such a low average population density in the county.

PS. Of course, one thing too is that some people think a town of 80,000 is a built-up urban community. When I lived in a little town of 6000 people, they referred to a nearby city of 130,000 as "the big city", when I drove through it and thought it was just a small town. It certainly doesn't have the social attitude of the big city, although it was closer than midway towns like a nearby 40,000 person town where the social attitude was virtually identical to that in the 6,000 person town. The 40,000 person town was pure redneck: anti-gay marriage, etc. And that's in Ontario, which is absurdly liberal compared to Ohio. I can't imagine actually living in a state where 85 of 88 districts have abstinence-only sex education.

[Wicked Pilot]

The distance between Cleveland and Canton is similar to the distance between Toronto and Guelph here in Ontario Canada, and Guelphers definitely don't consider themselves urbanites, nor should they. I've been there.

Canton is significantly bigger than Guelphers, and unlike all the empty space between it and Toronto, there appears to be neighbors almost completely filling the gap between Canton, Akron, and Cleveland. The urban of Toronto would stop when it hits the farmland, while the urban influence of Cleveland would simply taper off as it goes through the suburbs. But either way, I think the best source would be from someone personally familiar with the area.

Besides, the population density for Stark County is the killer, because if it was anything resembling a densely populated suburb, it would not be possible to have such a low average population density in the county.

It's on the border, with Akron right on the other side. Akron's got 217k total population. I'm not sure exactly where you draw the cutoff, but for me at least that's too much to completely rule out urban as a possiblity. Then again you're from Toronto which is larger than every city I've ever lived in by at least a factor of two. If you had to judge a city as urban or rural based solely on density where exactly would you draw the line?

[fgalkin]

Well, average population desnity can be deceptive. Let's use my favorite example here, Mother Russia. The Russian Federation has a population density of 8 people per square kilometer. Does that mean that all of Russia is rural farmland, with no major urbanized population centers? For that matter, the average population density of the US is 30 people per km^2.

My point is that having a low population density does not automatically preclude the existence of a major urbanized center, surrounded by rural farmland. What you should be looking at is population density in Canton, not the county as a whole.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[The Duchess of Zeon]

PS. Of course, one thing too is that some people think a town of 80,000 is a built-up urban community. When I lived in a little town of 6000 people, they referred to a nearby city of 130,000 as "the big city", when I drove through it and thought it was just a small town. It certainly doesn't have the social attitude of the big city, although it was closer than midway towns like a nearby 40,000 person town where the social attitude was virtually identical to that in the 6,000 person town. The 40,000 person town was pure redneck: anti-gay marriage, etc. And that's in Ontario, which is absurdly liberal compared to Ohio. I can't imagine actually living in a state where 85 of 88 districts have abstinence-only sex education.

At least in the US the figures are pretty fluid, too--a small state with a small population will have a few cities in the 200,000-ish range, which can be the only islands of liberalism in the whole state, but a similar city in a state with an urban metropolis of 1 million + also inside of it will have very conservative attitudes. People who are more liberal-minded will still tend to stay in the same state, and so they concentrate in its largest cities even if they're much smaller than the average.

[Wicked Pilot]

I never should have brought this up in the first place. This is going to end up as a useless semantics debate whose outcome will have no effect on the topic of AO not preventing teen pregancy. Maybe we should just split the thread.

[fgalkin]

PS. Of course, one thing too is that some people think a town of 80,000 is a built-up urban community. When I lived in a little town of 6000 people, they referred to a nearby city of 130,000 as "the big city", when I drove through it and thought it was just a small town. It certainly doesn't have the social attitude of the big city, although it was closer than midway towns like a nearby 40,000 person town where the social attitude was virtually identical to that in the 6,000 person town. The 40,000 person town was pure redneck: anti-gay marriage, etc. And that's in Ontario, which is absurdly liberal compared to Ohio. I can't imagine actually living in a state where 85 of 88 districts have abstinence-only sex education.

Well, I think a town of 80,000 is an urban environment, and I've never lived in a city smaller than 4 million. Of course, I've been irreversably spoiled by the the existence of the urban-type settlement.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[SirNitram]

Well, I think a town of 80,000 is an urban environment, and I've never lived in a city smaller than 4 million. Of course, I've been irreversably spoiled by the the existence of the urban-type settlement.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

I think, within the context of this discussion(IE, the natural of a rural town to be both conservative and not have the slightest bit of entertainment for young folks), a town of 80,000 even with the Townlet infrastructure isn't going to break out of the 'rural' bit. That, and I think I've driven through Canton, and can say from eye-witness position that there ain't shit to do except hit the Dairy Queen.

[Darth Wong]

PS. Of course, one thing too is that some people think a town of 80,000 is a built-up urban community. When I lived in a little town of 6000 people, they referred to a nearby city of 130,000 as "the big city", when I drove through it and thought it was just a small town. It certainly doesn't have the social attitude of the big city, although it was closer than midway towns like a nearby 40,000 person town where the social attitude was virtually identical to that in the 6,000 person town. The 40,000 person town was pure redneck: anti-gay marriage, etc. And that's in Ontario, which is absurdly liberal compared to Ohio. I can't imagine actually living in a state where 85 of 88 districts have abstinence-only sex education.

Well, I think a town of 80,000 is an urban environment, and I've never lived in a city smaller than 4 million. Of course, I've been irreversably spoiled by the the existence of the urban-type settlement.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Well, that cuts to the urban/rural terminology debate, which is something of a sidetrack. For the purposes of assessing social attitudes in a state where 92% of the school districts use abstinence-only sex education, it's likely that only the most urban areas would use more liberalized sex education programs, and a town of 80,000 in the state of Ohio is not likely to be on that very short list, regardless of whether it fits your personal idea of a small town or a big city.

[TimothyC]

I can't imagine actually living in a state where 85 of 88 districts have abstinence-only sex education.

Where do you get this number of 88 districts dumbass?

Ohio has 88 Counties, not 88 School Districts. I grew up in Montgomery county. There were easliy a half a dozen districts in that county alone (Want proof? I'll name a few: Vandalia-Butler, Northridge, Dayton, Kettering, Northmont, and that's just the western half of the county, and only those that I could think of off the top of my head). Miami County, which is directly north of Montgomery has atleast 3 school districts (Tipp City Schools, Troy City Schools, and Piqua City Schools) and is by any strech of the imagination a rural district.

[RedImperator]

Do you think they'll assign these kids that project where you take care of the electronic crying baby? (Or where you take care of the flour/egg for you lower tech students)

You think you're joking, but there was at least one girl in my high school with a baby who was assigned that project. It was a major "WTF?" moment for all of us. Hoooray for rigid graduation requirements!

[Darth Wong]

I can't imagine actually living in a state where 85 of 88 districts have abstinence-only sex education.

Where do you get this number of 88 districts dumbass?

Ohio has 88 Counties, not 88 School Districts.

And I should give a shit whether the correct terminology is "county" rather than "district" for some reason? What does it have to do with my point, asshole? Do you have any other nitpicks you would like to raise, or would you just like me to shove your head up your ass right now?

I grew up in Montgomery county. There were easliy a half a dozen districts in that county alone (Want proof? I'll name a few: Vandalia-Butler, Northridge, Dayton, Kettering, Northmont, and that's just the western half of the county, and only those that I could think of off the top of my head). Miami County, which is directly north of Montgomery has atleast 3 school districts (Tipp City Schools, Troy City Schools, and Piqua City Schools) and is by any strech of the imagination a rural district.

And once again, what the fuck does this have to do with anything? Oh God, I've been caught using an incorrect term for two levels of local government in a US state! I must be an idiot!

Fuck off, moron. If you have a real criticism to make, either make it or shut your fucking hole, dipshit.

[fgalkin]

PS. Of course, one thing too is that some people think a town of 80,000 is a built-up urban community. When I lived in a little town of 6000 people, they referred to a nearby city of 130,000 as "the big city", when I drove through it and thought it was just a small town. It certainly doesn't have the social attitude of the big city, although it was closer than midway towns like a nearby 40,000 person town where the social attitude was virtually identical to that in the 6,000 person town. The 40,000 person town was pure redneck: anti-gay marriage, etc. And that's in Ontario, which is absurdly liberal compared to Ohio. I can't imagine actually living in a state where 85 of 88 districts have abstinence-only sex education.

Well, I think a town of 80,000 is an urban environment, and I've never lived in a city smaller than 4 million. Of course, I've been irreversably spoiled by the the existence of the urban-type settlement.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Well, that cuts to the urban/rural terminology debate, which is something of a sidetrack. For the purposes of assessing social attitudes in a state where 92% of the school districts use abstinence-only sex education, it's likely that only the most urban areas would use more liberalized sex education programs, and a town of 80,000 in the state of Ohio is not likely to be on that very short list, regardless of whether it fits your personal idea of a small town or a big city.

True, it looks like "liberal" is a curseword there, just like it is in much of rural USA. But my orignial point (in that and the other post) was that you cannot make assumptions about whether an area is urban or rural based only on average population density for the region (and not the settlement). In the case of Canton, according to the Wiki article, the population density is 1,518.2/km² (3,933.0/mi²), which would suggest that it is, in fact, not quite urban. However, it is much more urbanized than the county average.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

[felineki]

Don't these kids have anything better to do than screw each other?

[Big Phil]

Arcen's stupidity aside, it is possible that the incidence of pregnant girls at this school can be attributed to more than just AO education and a rural mindset.

It is not uncommon, for example, for kids to do certain things because they're "popular." This can range from everyone joining the football team, lots of people declaring themselves "gay," orgies, Christianity, abstinence, Goth, or even girls getting knocked up. Maybe at this school a lot of girls are getting knocked up because their friends are getting knocked up, because their friends got knocked up, etc.

[Darth Wong]

True, it looks like "liberal" is a curseword there, just like it is in much of rural USA. But my orignial point (in that and the other post) was that you cannot make assumptions about whether an area is urban or rural based only on average population density for the region (and not the settlement). In the case of Canton, according to the Wiki article, the population density is 1,518.2/km² (3,933.0/mi²), which would suggest that it is, in fact, not quite urban. However, it is much more urbanized than the county average.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

I would dispute that, actually. A town of 80,000 is simply not that big, and no matter how dense it is, if it is surrounded by much less dense regions, it's going to have a less urban mindset than a similarly dense town which is a direct suburb of a city. Exurbs exist in large part because the people who live there do not want to live in or even next to the city, so they're not going to be as urban in mindset as the city itself, even if they're "only" a hundred kilometres away. That's assuming Canton is an exurb, of course.

[Darth Wong]

Arcen's stupidity aside, it is possible that the incidence of pregnant girls at this school can be attributed to more than just AO education and a rural mindset.

It is not uncommon, for example, for kids to do certain things because they're "popular." This can range from everyone joining the football team, lots of people declaring themselves "gay," orgies, Christianity, abstinence, Goth, or even girls getting knocked up. Maybe at this school a lot of girls are getting knocked up because their friends are getting knocked up, because their friends got knocked up, etc.

Yes, but peer pressure exists in all schools, so it can be factored out.

[Flagg]

Don't these kids have anything better to do than screw each other?

It's Ohio. So, no.

[Darth Wong]

I wonder if some of the board members who haven't followed the longstanding evolution vs creationism news do not realize how bad Ohio is, when it comes to religious interference in the school system. Ohio is one of the leading states when it comes to insinuating creationism into the classroom.