Countdown of powerful 40K beings.

Tatterdemalion · Post by **Tatterdemalion** » 2004-07-04 03:59pm

Would the C'tan be more powerful than the chaos gods? I mean, perhaps at their prime... but even then Khaine managed to take down the Nightbringer, albeit with some insane firepower backing him up, meanwhile Slaanesh pretty much blasted the entire Eldar pantheon with it's birthcries.

Really I don't think it's possible to judge between the C'tan and Chaos, as on their home turf the chaos gods are pretty much omnipotent, while the C'tan have the significant advantage of being about the only beings in the galaxy to be truly immortal, even if they aren't all that physically (compared to the other god like 40k creatures). Then again, if they were to construct a titan-size Necodermis to go one on one with a Demon Primarch... but that's all speculation.

Guardsman Bass · Post by **Guardsman Bass** » 2004-07-04 04:51pm

Wait, what exactly ARE the C'tan? And the Nightbringer?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-07-04 05:00pm

Tatterdemalion wrote:Would the C'tan be more powerful than the chaos gods? I mean, perhaps at their prime... but even then Khaine managed to take down the Nightbringer,

He managed to kill its avatar, and get himself seriously and agonisingly wounded in doing so, deprived the Eldar of eternal life, and has burning metal running through his viens for eternity. Good job.

albeit with some insane firepower backing him up, meanwhile Slaanesh pretty much blasted the entire Eldar pantheon with it's birthcries.

Really I don't think it's possible to judge between the C'tan and Chaos, as on their home turf the chaos gods are pretty much omnipotent,

Thing is, the stuff in the warp isn't real. It's not proper matter, it evaporates when taken into reality. It's rather like a federation holodeck in that respect. C'tan powers are real.

C'tan [real] powers = make star systems go bye bye. Whistle up stellar masses.

Chaos [real] god powers = make planets go bang, once. Straining themselves. Working together.

while the C'tan have the significant advantage of being about the only beings in the galaxy to be truly immortal, even if they aren't all that physically (compared to the other god like 40k creatures). Then again, if they were to construct a titan-size Necodermis to go one on one with a Demon Primarch... but that's all speculation.

Even in weak ass state, both C'tan are slated to be a titan killer in Epic, you know that right?. Epic Necrons Beta List

For reference, they're stated as being able to make supermassive black holes appear and consume entire solar systems in the codex (or Necron warships do that, your choice

).

Full strength C'tan would shit all over the modern ones without blinking.
They're also capable of altering reality on a universal scale and making the warp go 'bye bye' - Great Warding - given long enough (Millenia) which is something the Chaos Gods have never shown the ability to do.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-07-04 05:03pm

Guardsman Bass wrote:Wait, what exactly ARE the C'tan? And the Nightbringer?

Necron Gods. All described in Codex Necrons.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2004-07-04 06:11pm

He managed to kill its avatar, and get himself seriously and agonisingly wounded in doing so, deprived the Eldar of eternal life, and has burning metal running through his viens for eternity. Good job.

*shrug* Khorne/Khaine beat the Nightbringer one on one, and Khorne is no longer burdened by the Nightbringers necrodermis, as the Birth of slaanesh scatter the chunks of tainted necrodermis across reality.

He WON. And the Khorne of today is most likely even more powerful, due to a larger population of psychic potentials.

BTW, what do you mean by depriving the Eldar of eternal life ? I have a suspicion, but would like clarification.

Even in weak ass state, both C'tan are slated to be a titan killer in Epic, you know that right

*shrug* Cherubael vaped a Battle Titan in Hereticus,

And the Epic DP is just about as hard as a awakened C'tan as well. Long ways to go for the C'tan to be anything like approaching a Chaos God.

For reference, they're stated as being able to make supermassive black holes appear and consume entire solar systems in the codex (or Necron warships do that, your choice

Its very cool either way

[/quote]They're also capable of altering reality on a universal scale and making the warp go 'bye bye' - Great Warding - given long enough (Millenia) which is something the Chaos Gods have never shown the ability to do

Are they ? what reasons do you have to believe that the C'tan have this ability, rather than it being a function of the Pylons and the collection of PAriahs they have.

Presumably the Outsider gorged itself into insanity while the Nightbringer did it in relative moderation.

Seems awfully tenous to me, the Nightbringer is described as the exact opposite of moderation, the Outsider always seemed to me to be the dumbarse who got tricked into munching his kin, and couldnt hold his liquor.

anything else ?

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2004-07-04 07:17pm

Originally the eldar died and where reborn the death of Nightbringer took that aspect from them, bringing true deathto the Eldar...

This coincidently allowed the Eldar to actually collect and form Slannesh, if it where not for Nightbringers defeat the Souls of the departed Eldar would have been reborn rather than gathered together in the Warp...

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-07-05 04:26am

white_rabbit wrote:*shrug* Khorne/Khaine beat the Nightbringer one on one, and Khorne is no longer burdened by the Nightbringers necrodermis,

Khorne =!= Khaine, and yes, yes he is, hence why he has that "Rawr, I'm living metal" deal.

as the Birth of slaanesh scatter the chunks of tainted necrodermis across reality.

Why do you think the avatar of Khaine 1 - looks like the reaper and 2 - is made of molten friggin metal.

He WON.

A phrric victory at best, given what it cost him. Perhaps you also missed the point that in just about every other encounter between an Old One and a C'tan, the Old One died.

And the Khorne of today is most likely even more powerful, due to a larger population of psychic potentials.

BTW, what do you mean by depriving the Eldar of eternal life ? I have a suspicion, but would like clarification.

Even in weak ass state, both C'tan are slated to be a titan killer in Epic, you know that right

Before then they reincarnated. Thanks the the botched ass job Khaine did in that fight, we have limited life for Eldar, and as a direct result, the Fall and the Birth of Slanessh.
And the Epic DP is just about as hard as a awakened C'tan as well. Long ways to go for the C'tan to be anything like approaching a Chaos God.

Get this. It isn't a modern C'tan this is talking about, this is "RWAR, I'm huge, EAT BLACK HOLE DEATH FUCKFACE" ancient C'tan. There's a world of difference.

Are they ? what reasons do you have to believe that the C'tan have this ability, rather than it being a function of the Pylons and the collection of PAriahs they have.

1 Pariahs are new. They were planning to do it in the past, long before humans arrived. 2 The Pylons are probably involved, but it almost certainly has a role for the C'tan, given that the Deceiver needs to awaken the others for the plan to succeed.

Grand Admiral Ancaris · Post by **Grand Admiral Ancaris** » 2004-07-05 05:22am

We shall see the true power of a C'tan when Dragon awakens.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-07-05 05:33am

Grand Admiral Ancaris wrote:We shall see the true power of a C'tan when Dragon awakens.

Even he I suspect will be reduced in power (possibly by his little run-in with the Blackstones). Though far more formidable than the others.

Chris OFarrell · Post by **Chris OFarrell** » 2004-07-05 05:38am

And for the record, Nightbringer got away from the fight with nothing but a busted Necrodermis which was probably replaced within a very short time, no other effects. Khaine walked away contaminated forever and the Eldar lost the ability to be reborn as themselves into the warp.

Not exactly what I would call Khaine WINING.

Typhonis 1 · Post by **Typhonis 1** » 2004-07-05 12:53pm

Willl GW be bringing the Slann back? or are they as dead as Squats and Zoats?. I kno0w they had a low powered version in Rogue Trader.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2004-07-05 12:59pm

Khorne =!= Khaine, and yes, yes he is, hence why he has that "Rawr, I'm living metal" deal

No, he isn't Liber Chaotic Slaanesh states that the Birth of Slaanesh "freed khorne from the prison of living metal he had been imprisoned in since his battle with the Khaelis Ra, and scattered the fragments"

precise quote and page later tonight.

Why do you think the avatar of Khaine 1 - looks like the reaper and 2 - is made of molten friggin metal

see above

A phrric victory at best, given what it cost him. Perhaps you also missed the point that in just about every other encounter between an Old One and a C'tan, the Old One died.

Old one ?

The Eldar Gods weren't old ones, they were psychic gestalts created as weapons by the eldar that ascended to true sentience.

[/quote]Get this. It isn't a modern C'tan this is talking about, this is "RWAR, I'm huge, EAT BLACK HOLE DEATH FUCKFACE" ancient C'tan. There's a world of difference

Indeed, and the Daemon prince in question isnt a powerful one, the powerful ones are the ones that rip space hulks to bits with their bare hands.

1 Pariahs are new. They were planning to do it in the past, long before humans arrived. 2 The Pylons are probably involved, but it almost certainly has a role for the C'tan, given that the Deceiver needs to awaken the others for the plan to succeed

From what I can remember, and I shall have to check, the pariahs are harvest of the crop the C'tan seeded for exactly that purpose, not a suprise benefit.

And the Deceiver could just need the muscle of the others to help in the harvest, be visible targets, and so forth.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We shall see the true power of a C'tan when Dragon awakens

I really hope he arrives with a bang, having him just wreak havoc, then float away to be evil would be really shit.

Even he I suspect will be reduced in power (possibly by his little run-in with the Blackstones). Though far more formidable than the others.

Hes been supping the life energy more than the others I think, he should be harder.

Khaine walked away contaminated forever

No he didn't

Nightbringer got away from the fight with nothing but a busted Necrodermis which was probably replaced within a very short time, no other effects

*shrug* whatever qualifiers you add to it, Nightbringer lost the fight, one on one, with the physical avatar of a weaker Khorne/Khaine, and fled.

And without his necrodermis, a C'tan is a giant space leech, immaterial and apparently ineffectual.

So without the support mechanism of a galaxy of necron bases.....whoops..

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-07-05 01:32pm

Could you please repost that with corrected quotes and I'll delete that post, as it makes little to no sense.

Let's say it again.

C'tan = make things dissapear into black holes of their own creation.
Chaos Entities = Blow up planets, at best, working together, once.

2000AD · Post by **2000AD** » 2004-07-05 01:45pm

Typhonis 1 wrote:Willl GW be bringing the Slann back? or are they as dead as Squats and Zoats?. I kno0w they had a low powered version in Rogue Trader.

Slann are alive and well in WFB, leading Lizardmen armies.

Grand Admiral Ancaris · Post by **Grand Admiral Ancaris** » 2004-07-05 07:25pm

2000AD wrote:Slann are alive and well in WFB, leading Lizardmen armies.

I believe those Slann are different from the 40K Slann of old, having been servants of the Old Ones.

Grand Admiral Ancaris · Post by **Grand Admiral Ancaris** » 2004-07-05 07:34pm

white_rabbit wrote:*shrug* whatever qualifiers you add to it, Nightbringer lost the fight, one on one, with the physical avatar of a weaker Khorne/Khaine, and fled.

Khaine had the better strategy, with the aid of the Laughing God. With a better strategy even a weak opponent can defeat a superior adversary.

Grand Admiral Ancaris · Post by **Grand Admiral Ancaris** » 2004-07-05 07:37pm

Khaine was forever tainted from his encounter with the Nightbringer. Don't believe me?

US White Dwarf 280, page 87:

"But victory came at a price. Shards of the Yngir's flesh, driven deep into Khaine's body by the cataclysmic demise of his foe, melted in the fires of the War God's wrath. The silver poison flowed into his bloodstream, forever tainting his physical incarnation with the aspect of the reaper."

Good enough for you?

Skelron · Post by **Skelron** » 2004-07-06 01:30am

A little confused here by this

Old one ?

The Eldar Gods weren't old ones, they were psychic gestalts created as weapons by the eldar that ascended to true sentience.

So what the Eldar just decided to go fighting Yngir for the fun of it! Oh wait no they had managed to make God's before Slaanash which is why it took them by such complete surprise. The Old Ones are the Eldar's Gods, and creators, I'm sure Necronlord can produce stuff from the Necron Codex on this, but I would at least ask for some evidence of the assertion that the Eldar created their God's through Psychic gestalts...

Although if you CAN provide this evidence... hmm I might be able to use it on NS.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2004-07-06 03:10am

Khaine was forever tainted from his encounter with the Nightbringer. Don't believe me?

Yes, however, Khaine/khornes prior physical incarnation no longer exists, it has been seperated from khorne by the birth of slaanesh.

C'tan = make things dissapear into black holes of their own creation.
Chaos Entities = Blow up planets, at best, working together, once.

Well, if you recall you yourself cast doubt on whether the black hole incident was tech or direct C'tan actions.

Khorne =!= Khaine, and yes, yes he is, hence why he has that "Rawr, I'm living metal" deal

No, he isn't Liber Chaotic Slaanesh states that the Birth of Slaanesh "freed khorne from the prison of living metal he had been imprisoned in since his battle with the Khaelis Ra, and scattered the fragments"

Get this. It isn't a modern C'tan this is talking about, this is "RWAR, I'm huge, EAT BLACK HOLE DEATH FUCKFACE" ancient C'tan. There's a world of difference

Indeed, and the Daemon prince in question isnt a powerful one, the powerful ones are the ones that rip space hulks to bits with their bare hands.

1 Pariahs are new. They were planning to do it in the past, long before humans arrived. 2 The Pylons are probably involved, but it almost certainly has a role for the C'tan, given that the Deceiver needs to awaken the others for the plan to succeed

From what I can remember, and I shall have to check, the pariahs are harvest of the crop the C'tan seeded for exactly that purpose, not a suprise benefit.

And the Deceiver could just need the muscle of the others to help in the harvest, be visible targets, and so forth.

Nightbringer got away from the fight with nothing but a busted Necrodermis which was probably replaced within a very short time, no other effects

*shrug* whatever qualifiers you add to it, Nightbringer lost the fight, one on one, with the physical avatar of a weaker Khorne/Khaine, and fled.

And without his necrodermis, a C'tan is a giant space leech, immaterial and apparently ineffectual.

So without the support mechanism of a galaxy of necron bases.....whoops.. not so independant now.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-07-06 03:20am

white_rabbit wrote:Well, if you recall you yourself cast doubt on whether the black hole incident was tech or direct C'tan actions.

Yeah, thing is, compared to the necrontyr technology base, the C'tan are meant to be godlike. If it was technology, that makes the C'tan even more uber.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2004-07-06 03:28am

NecronLord wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:Well, if you recall you yourself cast doubt on whether the black hole incident was tech or direct C'tan actions.
Yeah, thing is, compared to the necrontyr technology base, the C'tan are meant to be godlike. If it was technology, that makes the C'tan even more uber.

A touch open ended unfortunately.

I personally think the C'tan compliment the Necron tech, their massive energies and necrontyr methods of exploiting it. living metal for example

Grand Admiral Ancaris · Post by **Grand Admiral Ancaris** » 2004-07-06 09:14am

White Rabbit, could you please provide some quotes with sources and page numbers?

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2004-07-06 11:45am

Grand Admiral Ancaris wrote:White Rabbit, could you please provide some quotes with sources and page numbers?

No.....bwaahahahahhahahaha!

Post by **NecronLord** » 2004-07-06 11:46am

white_rabbit wrote:
Grand Admiral Ancaris wrote:White Rabbit, could you please provide some quotes with sources and page numbers?
No.....bwaahahahahhahahaha!

This is... a new low.

white_rabbit · Post by **white_rabbit** » 2004-07-06 12:09pm

Shit, you managed to post in the 5 minutes between me posting and fetching the book.

Eldar Gods, Khaine/khorne etc.

Of Pleasure and Rage, Liber Chaotica Slaanesh.

no page numbers.

exact words coming...its bloody difficult to read