Which ship would you serve on?

paladin · Post by **paladin** » 2004-01-05 07:36pm

Enterprise-nil under Kirk as long as I don't have to wear a red shirt!

Shok Teenik · Post by **Shok Teenik** » 2004-01-05 11:52pm

Excelsior. elegant yet robust ship design, stylish uniforms, and one could easily spend an eternity listening to Sulu's mind-blowingly rich voice handing out orders.

though I wouldn't mind Kirk's Enterprise either.

dacis2 · Post by **dacis2** » 2004-01-06 08:15am

E-Nil or E-D

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2004-01-06 08:45am

Lord Pounder wrote:I chose the E-Nil for obvious reasons. Major score against the E-D male crew men had to wear skirts too.

What ep was that? Pics please?

Tsyroc · Post by **Tsyroc** » 2004-01-06 09:49am

It looks like they still had relatively mini skirts during the TOS Movie era.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/galle ... forms3.jpg

Interesting. The same site is using Star Trek: The Magazine as a reference and TNG era skirts are nowhere to be found. They did look pretty dorky, especially on the guy that got stuck wearing one. I think the main problem is that they didn't come up with decent footwear to go with those uniforms when they were showing that much leg.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-01-06 10:25am

I'd want the E-E. Reasons:

- tactically pwns everything else on the list (unless you mean Voyager as of "Endgame," in which case I'll take Voyager)
- it might get refitted with Adm. Janeway's armor and torpedoes eventually
- never blew up
- IIRC, the worst exploding console was Geordi's station in "Nemesis," and that was just a few sparks
- holosuites that have never gone haywire
- Picard has a song that amuses me
- Picard has a nice voice
- Picard has nice legs

- Picard's addiction to weed in "Nemesis" can be cured by Crusher
- Riker is gone
- Troi is gone
- Data is gone, so there's only one person on the ship with his inflection - me
- ground vehicles at last
- it's fucking gorgeous to look at
- no real enemies left as of "Nemesis"
- I don't have to deal with Spock, Scotty, any of the TOS airhead bimbos, Wesley Crusher, Riker, Troi, anyone from Voyager
- I may have to take occasional orders from Janeway, but at least she's not on a ship anymore
- no miniskirts for me to flaunt my clit ring in
- no boob-smashing TOS movie uniforms
- no heels
- mini transporters

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2004-01-06 01:21pm

tactically pwns everything else on the list (unless you mean Voyager as of "Endgame," in which case I'll take Voyager)

Lets see it go up against a Dominion battleship or a Klingon Neghvar.

dworkin · Post by **dworkin** » 2004-01-06 07:30pm

I'ld shoot the starfleet recruiting officer with the phaser.
Guess that's another disintergration Straha.

Rhoades · Post by **Rhoades** » 2004-01-06 08:54pm

I'd try to get assigned to the Excelsior, just ask yourself this. How many redshirts died off on away teams on that ship. Limited screentime might be a huge factor, but hey it's one of the better bets.

One negative side is that I might get Tuvok as a bunkmate.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-01-06 09:09pm

evilcat4000 wrote:
tactically pwns everything else on the list (unless you mean Voyager as of "Endgame," in which case I'll take Voyager)
Lets see it go up against a Dominion battleship or a Klingon Neghvar.

Both of which aren't on the list...

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-01-06 10:58pm

evilcat4000 wrote:
tactically pwns everything else on the list (unless you mean Voyager as of "Endgame," in which case I'll take Voyager)
Lets see it go up against a Dominion battleship or a Klingon Neghvar.

Let's see any TWO of the other ships go up against them. Considering how well the E-E did against the Scimitar (which should have destroyed the E-E handily with its conventional weapons and couldn't), it packs a lot more punch than you think.

StarshipTitanic · Post by **StarshipTitanic** » 2004-01-07 04:24pm

Metrion Cascade wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote:
tactically pwns everything else on the list (unless you mean Voyager as of "Endgame," in which case I'll take Voyager)
Lets see it go up against a Dominion battleship or a Klingon Neghvar.
Let's see any TWO of the other ships go up against them. Considering how well the E-E did against the Scimitar (which should have destroyed the E-E handily with its conventional weapons and couldn't), it packs a lot more punch than you think.

Except the Scimitar wasn't trying to kill them. Shinzon needed Picard. If they didn't, the Enterprise would have been toast. The Romulans need to put that thing in mass production and kick some tail.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-01-07 07:54pm

StarshipTitanic wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:
evilcat4000 wrote: Lets see it go up against a Dominion battleship or a Klingon Neghvar.
Let's see any TWO of the other ships go up against them. Considering how well the E-E did against the Scimitar (which should have destroyed the E-E handily with its conventional weapons and couldn't), it packs a lot more punch than you think.
Except the Scimitar wasn't trying to kill them. Shinzon needed Picard. If they didn't, the Enterprise would have been toast. The Romulans need to put that thing in mass production and kick some tail.

Shinzon eventually gave up on Picard and decided to kill him, and the Scimitar's conventional weapons were gone from the Enterprise's attack. And why couldn't the Scimitar take out the E-E's weapons and shields faster, even if they just wanted Picard? 52 disruptor banks and 27 photon torpedo tubes, and they couldn't get the shields down or take out the E-E's weapons any faster. Were the E-E any other Fed ship, they would have been utterly crippled within the first ten seconds of the Scimitar's attack. Shinzon said to target weapons and shields. With that many weapons trained on them (and the ship cloaked), the E-E shouldn't have stood a chance in hell. Instead, they flushed out a perfectly cloaked ship with two sets of shields and dozens of times their weapons fixtures, dropped its cloak, damageed its sublight engines to the point that it could barely maneuver and needed emergency thrusters just to back away, and disabled all of its conventional weapons. That's called holding your own against a superior foe.

And really all that needs proving is that the E-E did better than any of the other ships on the list would have. Honestly the rest of the ships on the list are embarrassments by comparison. The E-D would have been completely destroyed by the Scimitar's opening volley. The Defiant would have lasted a bit longer than the E-D and probably Voyager, but it wouldn't have scored a single hit on the Scimitar with those PPCs, and the E-E actually survived and took out the Scimitar's weapons.

The only way any ship on the list is superior to the E-E is if you're assuming Voyager as of "Endgame," in which case it could obliterate the rest of the list ten times before breakfast. Except you'd go mad from serving with that crew.

Stravo · Post by **Stravo** » 2004-01-07 08:18pm

<<<-------------------

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-01-07 08:24pm

Ideally, I'd want a squad of Sovereign, Defiant, and Prometheus classes with Kirk, Picard, Kira, Sulu, Data, Uhura, Bones, Crusher, Bashir, LaForge, O'Brien, Quark, Harry Mudd, the Doctor, and Guinan serving in some capacity or another. I'd also want Janeway's armor and torpedoes...

And Janeway herself tied naked to the bow of my ship, to turn enemies to stone when they saw her.

Straha · Post by **Straha** » 2004-01-07 09:32pm

Metrion Cascade wrote:Ideally, I'd want a squad of Sovereign, Defiant, and Prometheus classes with Kirk, Picard, Kira, Sulu, Data, Uhura, Bones, Crusher, Bashir, LaForge, O'Brien, Quark, Harry Mudd, the Doctor, and Guinan serving in some capacity or another. I'd also want Janeway's armor and torpedoes...

And Janeway herself tied naked to the bow of my ship, to turn enemies to stone when they saw her.

No, I rather think that the point would be to turn the enemy to jelly and definetly not to stone.

Einhander Sn0m4n · Post by **Einhander Sn0m4n** » 2004-01-07 10:52pm

Metrion Cascade wrote:- Picard has nice legs

Yummy! Pics, please? *searches for 'Picard' on Google Image Search*

Metrion Cascade wrote:- Picard's addiction to weed in "Nemesis" can be cured by Crusher

Picaard smoked weed!??! W00ty!

Metrion Cascade wrote:- no miniskirts for me to flaunt my clit ring in

You say that like it's a bad thing.

*reviews search results and finds this: 'Holy Shit this guy's Headlights are ON!' and this: 'Random Gynecomastia=T3h Phun!'

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-08 12:07am

Metrion Cascade wrote:Shinzon eventually gave up on Picard and decided to kill him, and the Scimitar's conventional weapons were gone from the Enterprise's attack.

Wrong. They were gone only after the Scimitar had been rammed. Before the ramming attack, the E-E was crippled, while the Scimitar was still combat-capable with 70% shielding.

And why couldn't the Scimitar take out the E-E's weapons and shields faster, even if they just wanted Picard? 52 disruptor banks and 27 photon torpedo tubes, and they couldn't get the shields down or take out the E-E's weapons any faster.

They took down the E-E's defenses and weapons quite quickly once Shinzon gave up on trying to capture Picard alive. And since you don't know how powerful any one of those disruptor banks were, the sheer number of disruptor banks proves nothing. Indeed, a very large number of disruptor banks might even suggest that they're individually weaker.

Were the E-E any other Fed ship, they would have been utterly crippled within the first ten seconds of the Scimitar's attack. Shinzon said to target weapons and shields. With that many weapons trained on them (and the ship cloaked), the E-E shouldn't have stood a chance in hell. Instead, they flushed out a perfectly cloaked ship with two sets of shields and dozens of times their weapons fixtures, dropped its cloak, damageed its sublight engines to the point that it could barely maneuver and needed emergency thrusters just to back away, and disabled all of its conventional weapons. That's called holding your own against a superior foe.

That's called "bullshit", since almost all of this damage was inflicted by the ramming attack, which was conducted only after the Scimitar had been completely victorious and Shinzon had stupidly decided to park it right in front of the E-E in order to gloat.

And really all that needs proving is that the E-E did better than any of the other ships on the list would have.

Wrong yet again, since the question only asks which ship you would serve on. It says nothing about taking these ships out of their respective eras. If you serve on the E-Nil with Kirk, then you obviously serve when Kirk was alive. If you serve on the E-D with Picard, then you obviously serve in the TNG era.

And if you serve on the E-E, then your chances of survival are extremely low because most of its original crew was killed or assimilated by the Borg in STFC, remember?

Mayabird · Post by **Mayabird** » 2004-01-08 12:11am

neoolong wrote: I bet they all draw straws as to who has to accompany the captain on an away team.

<Family Guy>
Captain Kirk: "We are going on a dangerous mission where there is a good chance that someone on the away team will be killed. I'm taking myself, Mr. Spock, Lt. Sulu, and Ensign Ritchie."
Ensign Ritchie: "Aw, shit."
</Family Guy>

JME2 · Post by **JME2** » 2004-01-08 01:42am

Mayabird wrote:
neoolong wrote: I bet they all draw straws as to who has to accompany the captain on an away team.
<Family Guy>
Captain Kirk: "We are going on a dangerous mission where there is a good chance that someone on the away team will be killed. I'm taking myself, Mr. Spock, Lt. Sulu, and Ensign Ritchie."
Ensign Ritchie: "Aw, shit."
</Family Guy>

Woah, Uhura's black?

I kid. I kid.

Anyway, I'd go as long as I wasn't a red shirt.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-01-08 10:17am

Darth Wong wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:Shinzon eventually gave up on Picard and decided to kill him, and the Scimitar's conventional weapons were gone from the Enterprise's attack.
Wrong. They were gone only after the Scimitar had been rammed. Before the ramming attack, the E-E was crippled, while the Scimitar was still combat-capable with 70% shielding.

You mean...(gasp)...they CHEATED? Horror of horrors, cheating in war? Despicable Starfleeters, not following the rules of war...

We're not just evaluating the technology here. We're also evaluating the crew. The ship and crew combined, regardless of how they did it, destroyed the Scimitar from an inferior position. And even before the ramming, they'd fucked up its sublights to the point that it couldn't get out of the way with a kilometer between them. How they did it is no more relevant than saying an X-Wing can only destroy a Death Star by cheating. Did the X-wing carrying Luke Skywalker and R2D2 do it, or not?

And why couldn't the Scimitar take out the E-E's weapons and shields faster, even if they just wanted Picard? 52 disruptor banks and 27 photon torpedo tubes, and they couldn't get the shields down or take out the E-E's weapons any faster.
They took down the E-E's defenses and weapons quite quickly once Shinzon gave up on trying to capture Picard alive. And since you don't know how powerful any one of those disruptor banks were, the sheer number of disruptor banks proves nothing. Indeed, a very large number of disruptor banks might even suggest that they're individually weaker.

Worf might have said so. But that doesn't change the number of photorp tubes, or the fact that if Shinzon could take out the E-E's weapons and shields any faster he would have done it (he ordered those targeted first).

Were the E-E any other Fed ship, they would have been utterly crippled within the first ten seconds of the Scimitar's attack. Shinzon said to target weapons and shields. With that many weapons trained on them (and the ship cloaked), the E-E shouldn't have stood a chance in hell. Instead, they flushed out a perfectly cloaked ship with two sets of shields and dozens of times their weapons fixtures, dropped its cloak, damageed its sublight engines to the point that it could barely maneuver and needed emergency thrusters just to back away, and disabled all of its conventional weapons. That's called holding your own against a superior foe.
That's called "bullshit", since almost all of this damage was inflicted by the ramming attack, which was conducted only after the Scimitar had been completely victorious and Shinzon had stupidly decided to park it right in front of the E-E in order to gloat.

Did it work or not? And would any other ship on the list have dropped the Scimitar's cloak or gotten its shields down to 70% with a gaping hole in the front? No. Granted, in a straight fight with a more rational Shinzon the E-E would not have won. But they did better than anyone else on the list.

And really all that needs proving is that the E-E did better than any of the other ships on the list would have.
Wrong yet again, since the question only asks which ship you would serve on. It says nothing about taking these ships out of their respective eras. If you serve on the E-Nil with Kirk, then you obviously serve when Kirk was alive. If you serve on the E-D with Picard, then you obviously serve in the TNG era.

Okay. But it hasn't been said what point in that era we have to join. Straha listed the E-nil under Kirk, meaning no Pike or April, and I can't serve in any of the movies before ST5 because Kirk wasn't captain of the Enterprise until then. But Straha didn't do the same for Voyager. Maybe I should therefore factor out all the Maquis crew, since they're not original crew? Or pick the Defiant but before it was given to DS9, so I wind up living back in Sol system after I transfer off. Or the Excelsior as of ST3 (onscreen canon unlike the Defiant or Voyager's past history). You can't die in war if you're stuck in Spacedock. And since our presence rewrites the story anyway, the E-nil could get sent through a wormhole five minutes after you join and run into the Scimitar anyway.

And if you serve on the E-E, then your chances of survival are extremely low because most of its original crew was killed or assimilated by the Borg in STFC, remember?

Nobody said I have to join before FC. Nor has it been demonstrated how many of the crew were killed or assimilated, or even how many there were. Nor has anyone said what type of officer I have to be. "Second-rate character" could mean LaForge or Ogawa or Hawke. I can choose to join Starfleet and train as a pilot or stellar cartographer, preventing me from being in Engineering while on duty. And unlike any of the other crew, I'd have a machine gun in my quarters (or at least my Mossberg M9) and a nice tritanium baseball bat, increasing my chances against the Borg greatly. And I suspect most SDnetters would survive against the Borg by similar means. Especially considering that we know these ships' futures. Unlike anyone else, I'd know that the Borg could be pwned right off the bat by killing the Queen. I'd calmly stroll past them armed (like so many other crew did until they fired on the drones, except my stuff is more primitive so the Borg care even less), walk into Engineering, up to a catwalk above the core, and happily blow out one of the nice thin glass coolant tanks. After I had coffee. Hell, the Borg sphere might not even make it to the 21st century. I'd just inform Picard off the bat that the sphere would launch and a single burst of four quantum torpedoes would obliterate it, and we'd never even see any drones up close.

Nor did anyone say the standard has to be chances of survival anyway. We can choose based on armament or favorite hull color or sexiest barber if we want. You're seriously trying to refute a subjective opinion? Are you going to tell me I don't like Picard's legs next?

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2004-01-09 11:16am

Metrion Cascade wrote:You mean...(gasp)...they CHEATED? Horror of horrors, cheating in war? Despicable Starfleeters, not following the rules of war...

No, I mean their fluke victory did NOT demonstrate the superiority of their ship, despite your handwaving and all-too-typical use of bullshit.

We're not just evaluating the technology here. We're also evaluating the crew. The ship and crew combined, regardless of how they did it, destroyed the Scimitar from an inferior position. And even before the ramming, they'd fucked up its sublights to the point that it couldn't get out of the way with a kilometer between them. How they did it is no more relevant than saying an X-Wing can only destroy a Death Star by cheating. Did the X-wing carrying Luke Skywalker and R2D2 do it, or not?

It did, but if you use it to "prove" that Skywalker's X-Wing is a more powerful fighter than any other fighter ever built, you'd be an idiot. And that is precisely what you're doing by using the Nemesis battle to "prove" that the E-E is the best ship.

Worf might have said so. But that doesn't change the number of photorp tubes, or the fact that if Shinzon could take out the E-E's weapons and shields any faster he would have done it (he ordered those targeted first).

Fine, now show that he would have been more successful against one of the other ships.

Did it work or not? And would any other ship on the list have dropped the Scimitar's cloak or gotten its shields down to 70% with a gaping hole in the front? No. Granted, in a straight fight with a more rational Shinzon the E-E would not have won. But they did better than anyone else on the list.

More bullshit. Any one of those ships could have had its shields blown down to nothing and then rammed the Scimitar out of desperation, which is all the E-E did. It does not prove the E-E's superiority in any way.

Okay. But it hasn't been said what point in that era we have to join. Straha listed the E-nil under Kirk, meaning no Pike or April, and I can't serve in any of the movies before ST5 because Kirk wasn't captain of the Enterprise until then. But Straha didn't do the same for Voyager. Maybe I should therefore factor out all the Maquis crew, since they're not original crew? Or pick the Defiant but before it was given to DS9, so I wind up living back in Sol system after I transfer off. Or the Excelsior as of ST3 (onscreen canon unlike the Defiant or Voyager's past history). You can't die in war if you're stuck in Spacedock.

Once again, you miss the entire point (as usual, once you get combative, you have a history of throwing logic to the winds and trying to win through increasingly vehement rhetoric, no matter how trivial the point is; I can only imagine it's that time of month for you). You don't know precisely what part of the E-Nil's service record you'd be in, but we do know the entire E-Nil's service record, and at no point did that ship ever suffer the kind of casualties that the E-E did when it was boarded and nearly assimilated. Given a situation where you know you're going to be plunked onto it but you have no control over when, it is obviously wiser to choose the ship that never went through such a calamity. Get it?

And since our presence rewrites the story anyway, the E-nil could get sent through a wormhole five minutes after you join and run into the Scimitar anyway.

More bizarre hand-waving. The scenario says absolutely nothing about changing the events that took place on the ships in their original histories. As a second-rate crewman, your presence would change nothing. That's the whole point.

Nobody said I have to join before FC. Nor has it been demonstrated how many of the crew were killed or assimilated, or even how many there were. Nor has anyone said what type of officer I have to be. "Second-rate character" could mean LaForge or Ogawa or Hawke. I can choose to join Starfleet and train as a pilot or stellar cartographer, preventing me from being in Engineering while on duty. And unlike any of the other crew, I'd have a machine gun in my quarters (or at least my Mossberg M9) and a nice tritanium baseball bat, increasing my chances against the Borg greatly. And I suspect most SDnetters would survive against the Borg by similar means. Especially considering that we know these ships' futures. Unlike anyone else, I'd know that the Borg could be pwned right off the bat by killing the Queen. I'd calmly stroll past them armed (like so many other crew did until they fired on the drones, except my stuff is more primitive so the Borg care even less), walk into Engineering, up to a catwalk above the core, and happily blow out one of the nice thin glass coolant tanks. After I had coffee. Hell, the Borg sphere might not even make it to the 21st century. I'd just inform Picard off the bat that the sphere would launch and a single burst of four quantum torpedoes would obliterate it, and we'd never even see any drones up close.

I can see you've been masturbating quite heavily to this scenario.

Nor did anyone say the standard has to be chances of survival anyway. We can choose based on armament or favorite hull color or sexiest barber if we want. You're seriously trying to refute a subjective opinion? Are you going to tell me I don't like Picard's legs next?

No, I'm trying to tell you that your argument (that the E-E is obviously the best ship based on its ability to ram the Scimitar after its shields were downed) is nonsense. If you would prefer to change your argument to a purely subjective one and concede the point, that's fine by me.

Metrion Cascade · Post by **Metrion Cascade** » 2004-01-09 02:23pm

Darth Wong wrote:
Metrion Cascade wrote:You mean...(gasp)...they CHEATED? Horror of horrors, cheating in war? Despicable Starfleeters, not following the rules of war...
No, I mean their fluke victory did NOT demonstrate the superiority of their ship, despite your handwaving and all-too-typical use of bullshit.

Their ship wasn't superior to the Scimitar, and I said so. Nor was Voyager superior to any of the Borg cubes it went up against, or the E-nil's shuttle superior to the Doomsday machine.

We're not just evaluating the technology here. We're also evaluating the crew. The ship and crew combined, regardless of how they did it, destroyed the Scimitar from an inferior position. And even before the ramming, they'd fucked up its sublights to the point that it couldn't get out of the way with a kilometer between them. How they did it is no more relevant than saying an X-Wing can only destroy a Death Star by cheating. Did the X-wing carrying Luke Skywalker and R2D2 do it, or not?
It did, but if you use it to "prove" that Skywalker's X-Wing is a more powerful fighter than any other fighter ever built, you'd be an idiot. And that is precisely what you're doing by using the Nemesis battle to "prove" that the E-E is the best ship.

I'd rather be Luke Skywalker in that X-wing than any other person in Star Wars. Or a grunt on Voyager than captain of the Yamato. Luke's fighter doesn't have to be the best in the fleet to prove that his situation and accomplishments were the best depicted. Hell, that's the theme of more war and sci-fi movies than I can name. David beating Goliath.

Nor do I have to prove jack shit. This is not a logical debate when we're factoring in shit like "Kirk is the man" and "ooh, miniskirts." I need no reason whatsoever to be more impressed with the E-E's performance against the Scimitar's than with the E-A's performance against Chang. I just am.

Worf might have said so. But that doesn't change the number of photorp tubes, or the fact that if Shinzon could take out the E-E's weapons and shields any faster he would have done it (he ordered those targeted first).
Fine, now show that he would have been more successful against one of the other ships.

Name one ship as heavily armed, with the same weapons coverage, helmed by anyone who'd predict Shinzon's actions. I can name one right off the bat that would have no chance of hitting the Scimitar even once - Defiant. And the E-nil would have taken weeks longer just to get out of Romulan space.

Did it work or not? And would any other ship on the list have dropped the Scimitar's cloak or gotten its shields down to 70% with a gaping hole in the front? No. Granted, in a straight fight with a more rational Shinzon the E-E would not have won. But they did better than anyone else on the list.
More bullshit. Any one of those ships could have had its shields blown down to nothing and then rammed the Scimitar out of desperation, which is all the E-E did. It does not prove the E-E's superiority in any way.
Okay. But it hasn't been said what point in that era we have to join. Straha listed the E-nil under Kirk, meaning no Pike or April, and I can't serve in any of the movies before ST5 because Kirk wasn't captain of the Enterprise until then. But Straha didn't do the same for Voyager. Maybe I should therefore factor out all the Maquis crew, since they're not original crew? Or pick the Defiant but before it was given to DS9, so I wind up living back in Sol system after I transfer off. Or the Excelsior as of ST3 (onscreen canon unlike the Defiant or Voyager's past history). You can't die in war if you're stuck in Spacedock.
Once again, you miss the entire point (as usual, once you get combative, you have a history of throwing logic to the winds and trying to win through increasingly vehement rhetoric, no matter how trivial the point is; I can only imagine it's that time of month for you). You don't know precisely what part of the E-Nil's service record you'd be in, but we do know the entire E-Nil's service record, and at no point did that ship ever suffer the kind of casualties that the E-E did when it was boarded and nearly assimilated. Given a situation where you know you're going to be plunked onto it but you have no control over when, it is obviously wiser to choose the ship that never went through such a calamity. Get it?

I'm not trying to win anything. This is not a debate, and you making one up because you'd like to win a pissing contest doesn't change that.

And since our presence rewrites the story anyway, the E-nil could get sent through a wormhole five minutes after you join and run into the Scimitar anyway.
More bizarre hand-waving. The scenario says absolutely nothing about changing the events that took place on the ships in their original histories. As a second-rate crewman, your presence would change nothing. That's the whole point.

In other words you can't make choices or do anything to affect your own actions, so you're no longer a person. Bullshit. By that standard you're functionally a zombie or bridge console no matter where you go.

Nobody said I have to join before FC. Nor has it been demonstrated how many of the crew were killed or assimilated, or even how many there were. Nor has anyone said what type of officer I have to be. "Second-rate character" could mean LaForge or Ogawa or Hawke. I can choose to join Starfleet and train as a pilot or stellar cartographer, preventing me from being in Engineering while on duty. And unlike any of the other crew, I'd have a machine gun in my quarters (or at least my Mossberg M9) and a nice tritanium baseball bat, increasing my chances against the Borg greatly. And I suspect most SDnetters would survive against the Borg by similar means. Especially considering that we know these ships' futures. Unlike anyone else, I'd know that the Borg could be pwned right off the bat by killing the Queen. I'd calmly stroll past them armed (like so many other crew did until they fired on the drones, except my stuff is more primitive so the Borg care even less), walk into Engineering, up to a catwalk above the core, and happily blow out one of the nice thin glass coolant tanks. After I had coffee. Hell, the Borg sphere might not even make it to the 21st century. I'd just inform Picard off the bat that the sphere would launch and a single burst of four quantum torpedoes would obliterate it, and we'd never even see any drones up close.
I can see you've been masturbating quite heavily to this scenario.

Would it work or not? Oh, I forgot. We're zombies.

Nor did anyone say the standard has to be chances of survival anyway. We can choose based on armament or favorite hull color or sexiest barber if we want. You're seriously trying to refute a subjective opinion? Are you going to tell me I don't like Picard's legs next?
No, I'm trying to tell you that your argument (that the E-E is obviously the best ship based on its ability to ram the Scimitar after its shields were downed) is nonsense. If you would prefer to change your argument to a purely subjective one and concede the point, that's fine by me.

Fuck you rectally with a ten foot lightsabre ten times every day for the rest of your life. With no lube. The E-E is the best ship and Picard has nice legs because I fucking say so. It's called an opinion. YOU have already admitted that this is mainly subjective:

Darth Wong wrote:Ahem. Factors in favour of the E-Nil:
All of the women wore miniskirts.

Kirk is The Man.

All of the women wore miniskirts.

McCoy is the finest STD treatment specialist in the known universe. No matter what you picked up from the alien chick you reamed last night, he'll fix you right up.

All of the women wore miniskirts.

Most of the crew made it back alive after their five-year tour, although it's true that wearing a red shirt and going down to a planet on an away mission was pretty much a death sentence. Hopefully, you can be a nondescript engineering crewman.

All of the women wore miniskirts.

The ship was not destroyed until the original crew had long since rotated out.

All of the women wore miniskirts.
Now let's look at the other choices. The E-D suffered just as many bizarre deaths as the E-Nil did, and there were probably a lot of crewmen who were killed or seriously injured during the crash in STG. The E-E was mostly assimilated by the Borg on one of its first missions; I'll take a pass on that one. The Excelsior is a big unknown; you just don't know what happened on that ship. But we know that they had already stopped issuing the miniskirts for female crewmembers by then. Defiant wasn't even big enough to have second-rate characters, and I can think of a lot of placed I'd rather be than Voyager.

Kirk's Enterprise, all the way.

If you ever jump on me again for an opinion no less based in personal taste than your own, I will simply fucking ignore you, pissant. Maybe some fucking height issues or something. I don't know or care what your fucking problem is, but I will simply ignore your testosterone-poisoned Napoleon complex ass and be done with it, slut.

FUCK YOU MIKE.

The Kernel · Post by **The Kernel** » 2004-01-09 02:47pm

*looks into Crystal Ball*

I see a flamewar followed closely by an HOS'ing of this thread. Time to bust out the popcorn...

*sits back and watches the fireworks*

FOG3 · Post by **FOG3** » 2004-01-09 03:11pm

Metrion Cascade wrote:I'd rather be Luke Skywalker in that X-wing than any other person in Star Wars. Or a grunt on Voyager than captain of the Yamato.

Wildstar, prepare the Wave Motion Gun.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Which ship would you serve on?

Hmmmm?