Westworld Discussion Thread

[FaxModem1]

I figured that Westworld was a giant in-door dome/stadium. This way, they could have complete control of all weather and conditions if needed. Others have theorized that this is on an artificial island, another planet, or deep underground. Though, in the first episode, we do see Theresa and the douche writer hanging outside the facility, on the roof of it, for a smoke break, and they seem to be outside. They seem to see the ocean on the horizon. Question is if the facility is outside the park, or in a hidden part of it(say, at the top of a bunch of utterly tall mountains).

[FaxModem1]

Scratch that. Elsie commented in the latest episode that the hosts were sending signals to satellites, so the sky has to be open to the park.

[FaxModem1]

So, with episode 7's reveal, we know that the episodes are tricking us a bit in how things are presented. As we saw one character(revealed to be a host) pass by a wall, and once they passed, an actual human passed by and saw the door, and pointed it out. The camera then revealed to us that the wall contained a door.

This is going to make analysis of everything a bit tricky.

[Guardsman Bass]

Very interesting.
Spoiler

There might have been more support for the "two timelines" theory there, with Dolores seeing the buried church steeple when she was consciously with William, and the fully populated, excavated town when she wasn't (and was in her usual clothes). Or was it? Was she seeing the town back when Arnold was alive, before it went sour and Ford had it buried?

I like how they're heading for "multiple break-outs" here, with Dolores going rogue in the present, Maeve going rogue again, the hack writer guy being forced to smuggle one out with the full source code, Bernard accidentally having his memory jogged again about Theresa, and so forth. I assume it's going to turn out to be some secret design by Arnold to encourage multiple break-outs, since the title of the next episode - "well-tempered clavier" - references a stringed keyboard instrument like a piano (like the player piano that does cycle breaks).

[Imperial Overlord]

I hope we aren't dealing with two timelines. That screws up Delores's progression and to a lesser extent, William's. They could brute force it by inserting scenes to show force the characters through the necessary paces to make the "two timeline" thing work, but its not playing fair with the audience and it badly undermines the show by making all developments untrustworthy and therefore meaningless.

[Agent Fisher]

Spoiler

One piece of evidence for the two timeline or perhaps three time line theory, is the fact that the blonde that is with Wyatt's cult, the one that was the trap for Teddy and the Man in Black? That's the same Host that greeted William when he first came to the park. With the Man in Black making a reference to 'I thought you'd have been retired by now', certainly indicates that she's been active for a very long time. If she was greeting guests within the past couple weeks, why would the Man in Black think she'd be retired from service?

[bilateralrope]

Spoiler

One piece of evidence for the two timeline or perhaps three time line theory, is the fact that the blonde that is with Wyatt's cult, the one that was the trap for Teddy and the Man in Black? That's the same Host that greeted William when he first came to the park. With the Man in Black making a reference to 'I thought you'd have been retired by now', certainly indicates that she's been active for a very long time. If she was greeting guests within the past couple weeks, why would the Man in Black think she'd be retired from service?

Because he didn't see her when he arrived in the park. Likely because she didn't greet him.

[Imperial Overlord]

That just means the Man in Black hasn't seen her recently. We know there are a lot of hosts, they're periodically reassigned, and that Ford has conscripted lots of them for his new story line. Now, to be clear, I'm not saying their isn't two timelines, I'm saying that if the two timelines theory is correct it's a bad storytelling decision in my opinion because it undermines the characterization and story lines of William and Delores and audiences ability to get emotionally involved with the show. It doesn't mean they didn't do that or that my personal opinions on this matter are ones you have to agree with.

[FaxModem1]

I really hope that isn't the case. It means that both A. William's character of being the moral center is going to be thrown away, and more importantly, B. all of Dolores progress this season will be washed away.

[bilateralrope]

Have we seen anything that contradicts the idea of a single timeline ?

[Imperial Overlord]

Nothing that I know of. It seems to be a fan theory based on having one of the younger characters being the Man in Black's younger self. Since Delores seems to start waking up after the Man in Black's attack, it requires a fair number of contortions to make work although I'm not aware of anything directly contradicting it.

Also, Ford recognizing there is no real meaningful moral difference between the consciousness of humans and hosts and still going on to play god was awesome.

[FaxModem1]

I wonder if they can keep Anthony Hopkins for another season, or would he be way too expensive and they'll have to let him go? After all, he's probably the most expensive thing on the show.

[The Grim Squeaker]

A maximum of twenty-eight (28) days is allowed for being within the parks before guests must proceed to the Mesa Gold area for decompression

Decompression is an odd term to use here.
.

It's a term used by people who attend Burning man and the like. We talk about "Decompressing" at the end of a burn. Some Burns have entire post-burn events for decompression, and getting used to boring mundane life.
I.E : Someone's a Burner . (The similarities are many now that I think about it. Costumes, wacky clothes, desert..)

[The Grim Squeaker]

One thing that really feels like a plot-hole (and seems to remain unaddressed):
Why are the techs going along with Maeve? ESPECIALLY early on.
She threatened to attack them, and was unconscious or paralyzed most of the time, and didn't have constant access to them. She also couldn't hide any blackmail material. There's literally nothing stopping them from just ignoring her next time she comes up.
Nevermind the Prometheus level plot stupidity of:
"Hey, this robot started to threaten us, but we don't know if she can actually hurt us. What if we.... Turn her into a super-genius, and manually allow her to hurt people, for no actual personal gain? Yeah, set it to 20! " .

I'm all in favor of manipulating, blackmailing or seducing fleshbags, but there's no reason they should have kept going on with it here. (Saying "Asian tech fell in love with her" doesn't really carry it in my opinion. It isn't really carried out by the story. Also there's a difference between "We won't tell" and "We'll do whatever you say, you've got us by the goolies" [except she hasn't. Not really]).

[FaxModem1]

Felix, the Asian tech, just has moral standards and didn't want to see her hurt or die, which Maeve took advantage of. Sylvester though, had ample opportunity to destroy any evidence of his deeds and brick her at any point.

Though, Maeve taking one of those tablets and spamming the entire company about Sylvester's host hooker business for techs would get him unwanted attention, no matter if there was proof or not.

[Imperial Overlord]

Yeah, but bricking her might attract attention and Felix might feel bad about it and spill his guts so Sylvester had reason to hope he could make it all go away by just paying Maeve off. It's dumb, but some people will do dumb shit to just push their problems away and Sylvester isn't the brightest dude on the planet.

[Parallax]

I'm wondering what the failure rate on Hosts is - springing from the idea that bricking Maeve would draw attention.
I mean, we see that their programming is insanely complex but we have seen groups of Hosts not coping with a situation (that camp of men stuck in a loop becase one character was missing, springs to mind). And the general rule is the more complex something is, the more likely something goes wrong.

And would Hosts pass the Turing Test?

[The Grim Squeaker]

And would Hosts pass the Turing Test?

We've seen them pass the Turing test
(Think of Spoiler

. )

[FaxModem1]

Ford even says that the hosts passed the Turing test within the first couple years in the second or third episode.

[Joun_Lord]

I'm wondering what the failure rate on Hosts is - springing from the idea that bricking Maeve would draw attention.
I mean, we see that their programming is insanely complex but we have seen groups of Hosts not coping with a situation (that camp of men stuck in a loop becase one character was missing, springs to mind). And the general rule is the more complex something is, the more likely something goes wrong.

Looking at the storage area they have ALOT of bricked hosts. However those are the accumulated hosts done over decades. One can assume they only brick hosts as a last resort, when they become dangerous or impossible to control like the dad-bot after the pic and Arnold's programming taking hold, Trevor's milk buddy and poor Clementine was thought to be dangerous.

One has to assume there is a hefty investment in them, that they don't want to destroy them if at all possible. I think they mentioned thousands of hours going into programming them. Probably the construction time isn't much, if I remember correctly Bernard says their construction takes a few hours, though no idea on the cost beyond they are cheaper then the mechanical hosts. Either way they are worth enough to not incinerate, even the bricked models are stored for whatever reason (spare parts? later reconditioning? body parts to fill out murder scenes?).

Presumably though hosts more likely to interact with guests are given more lifelike programming. Delores, Teddy, and Maeve all are probably well programmed. Hosts like the camp which probably get little interaction with guests probably have far more basic programming, thus explaining how they could not adapt their programming when the woodcutter left because he was the only one with axe privileges. Thats probably why Maeve would draw attention, she is a integral part of part narrative, her absence would fuck with some story. Her being gone temporarily won't effect but long term her being gone would be noticed quick, one of the techs even commented that people would notice if she kept going in for repairs.

On the topic of their programming, their intelligence. It seems really dumb to have the ability to set them to 19 when they say no host is set over 14. What the point of having a setting they don't use and presumably don't use because its dangerous. Why have super smart hosts in the park? No reason, some why give the ability? I originally thought maybe some of the staff are hosts but the lady in charge seemed to be shocked that a certain someone was one though its possible she was shocked because he was so human and also the porking. I still wonder if some of the staff is secretly or overtly hosts. How would someone know? Maeve even asks if the two techs know they are human. Very Fallout 4-ish, how do you know whats real or not? How do you know if you are real or not when the difference between a human and a robot is a few scraps of machinery between their ears?

Ford does remind me of Father from the Institute. Acknowledges his creations are intelligent, barely any different from human, even calls them his children, but unwilling to see them as human. Even built a boyhood duplicate of himself because of a lost childhood. Though I think the difference between Ford and Father is while Father knew the synths were intelligent he didn't think they were sapient while Ford probably knows they are and just doesn't care so he can play god.

You know what this series needs? Power armor and laser rifles.

[bilateralrope]

On the topic of their programming, their intelligence. It seems really dumb to have the ability to set them to 19 when they say no host is set over 14. What the point of having a setting they don't use and presumably don't use because its dangerous.

I'm guessing that the capability of the hosts accidentally exceeded requirements because the code better than expected. Or maybe they are using off the shelf hardware for host processing, which is more capable than necessary.

Since it meets requirements, rewriting the code is seen as a waste of money and if it's off the shelf hardware, it's likely cheaper than designing their own.

Ford does remind me of Father from the Institute. Acknowledges his creations are intelligent, barely any different from human, even calls them his children, but unwilling to see them as human. Even built a boyhood duplicate of himself because of a lost childhood. Though I think the difference between Ford and Father is while Father knew the synths were intelligent he didn't think they were sapient while Ford probably knows they are and just doesn't care so he can play god.

That assumes that Ford treats humans better than hosts. Which I'm not sure about.

[Iroscato]

Ok, so episode 9. Fuck.
Spoiler

We discover the Man in Black appears to be on the board of directors for Delos itself, if not the outright owner of the company. This explains his limitless freedom and access to the park, his obviously substantial wealth, and the power-play between him and Ford.

Bernard is in fact a host made in the image of Arnold (as was suspected by myself and many others), right down to his mannerisms as programmed by Ford. This explains why (who we now know to be Arnold) would seemingly randomly interject in Dolores' activities with questioning back at HQ.

Dolores apparently murdered Arnold, all those years ago.


I'm becoming increasingly convinced by the theory that the MIB is an older William. His "massacre" of the hosts would serve as a good breaking point, the point at which he becomes totally consumed with Westworld and loosens his grip on humanity.

All in all a great episode, looking forward to the finale.

[FaxModem1]

So, season finale....
Spoiler

Apparently all humans except Felix are utter shits and deserve to be killed, or at least that's what the show wants to say. Rather disappointed, really. Even someone with empathy like William will become an utter psycho and kill anyone who gets in his way or for fun, due to a simple broken heart.

So, unanswered questions:
Spoiler

What happened to Stubbs and Elsie? What happened to the inactive hosts? Where is 'Arnold', in the computer software somewhere? What happened to Logan?

[ray245]

So, season finale....
Spoiler

Apparently all humans except Felix are utter shits and deserve to be killed, or at least that's what the show wants to say. Rather disappointed, really. Even someone with empathy like William will become an utter psycho and kill anyone who gets in his way or for fun, due to a simple broken heart.

spoiler]William did it because he realized that trauma is necessary for the Host to awaken.That's why he's happy that host can now injure and kill him. He wanted the host to gain freedom, and he's willing to be a big villain to force them into it. He first realised the maze when he attacked Mavae and her daughter. [/spoiler]

[Ziggy Stardust]

Overall, I thought it was a good finale. I had been struggling to finish the first season, because the last few episodes leading up to the finale were terrible. There are still a fuck-ton of plot holes due to lazy and stupid writing, even if the overall show is pretty enjoyable. (Like, there was still nothing that explained how utterly incompetent Felix and the other human employees were. In fact, I was hoping that they would reveal in this episode that the various technicians like Felix were all hosts who had been programmed to aid Maeve in the whole escape, because it would really be the only way to explain the inexplicable behavior displayed by the various technicians throughout the series). Anyway, this finale did as good a job as possible tying up loose ends and explaining some of the plot holes.

Still ...
Spoiler

William/The Man in Black's character is still kind of a mess. For one thing, why was William such a moron? He wanders around the wilderness of the park looking for Dolores instead of going back to the town to look for her (and despite being told specifically that that is where she probably is), and acts utterly flabbergasted when he sees her there, talking to another guest. You can make the argument Logan made, that he didn't really care about Dolores and that she was just an excuse for him to act that way, but the Man in Black explicitly says that Logan is wrong on that point. So if he actually did care about Dolores, and it was caring for her that sent him over the edge, than why was he too stupid to go back to the town almost immediately?

And it doesn't explain why it took him SO FUCKING LONG to find the maze. Why did it take him 30 (or whatever) years? It's not like he didn't know the maze existed; he learned that from Dolores when he was still William. And he even went to the buried town in the sand with her. So what was he doing for 30 years? Why did he need to cut the head off of the Indian fellow a few episodes ago to get the drawing of the maze on his scalp, which did precisely nothing to help direct him (all it did was show him a picture of the maze, which he had already seen several times at that point)? His MOTIVATIONS for finding the maze were well explained, but it wasn't really explained exactly why it took him so long, and what the point of all those intermediate steps actually were, like scalping the Indian and all.

Also, on a different note, the gun-fight sequence during Maeve's escape was one of the most poorly choreographed fight sequences I've ever seen in a high budget production. It was like watching someone play a first person shooter with the difficulty set to "Beginner". The Delos guards must have been drunk janitors handed guns and told to go kill robots, because otherwise it makes no sense why they would act the way they did. "Hey, let me wander alone into this dark room full of hosts without back-up, or even telling any of the other guards that I was literally just with" and "Hey, I just saw the two guards in front of me get gunned down, let me run down the middle of this hallway with my gun at my hip and see how that works out!"