X-Men vs. Avengers

[Tsyroc]

Modak was involved in the creation of the two Red Hulks (Betty and General Ross). I think there was some combination of cosmic energy and gamma rays used, which is why they are red. Also, I think the process was the most effective on people who had been present at the original gamma test that turned Banner into the Hulk. Which I guess hints how Jones ended up as A-Bomb but I really don't know how that happened. I don't know why it would work all that well on either Ross since they weren't caught in the blast at all but Modak said the process was most effective on those who were at "the event". Whatever that means.

More hulk news. There's another green She-Hulk. She' supposed to be the daughter of Thundra conceived through genetic material recovered from the original Hulk. She's from an alternate future, has some sort of physical or mental block that weakens her when gets angry instead of letting her get stronger and stronger which is supposedly within her natural abilities. She's also been immunized against Venom type symbiotes so she can't be possessed by one.

[Tsyroc]

This story sounds like typical Brian Michael Bendis hackery. I can't believe this guy a) is still employed by Marvel and b) fuckwit loser fatty nerds lap his shit up.

I like his character stuff but his big cross-over events really piss me off.

It's frustrating because I'll like what he's doing with his characters but then the next big thing will come along and that stuff will get back burnered or fucked up beyond all recognition.

He's one of those writers who likes the decompressed type of story telling. Which means, if I was reading his stuff on a monthly basis instead of in TPB he would have driven me to quit reading his stuff a long time ago.

[Ahriman238]

I probably would have forgotten all about the heating thing, except that he's causing the sea to boil while fighting Colosuss.

Cyclops was almost always stiff and aloof, the result of being Professor X's protege and chosen team leader since he was 18. Because of the Professor's trust, he always had to be the responsible one. Because he oculd kill anyone with a glance, he always had to be in control. That and Jean dying. But he did grow and learn better, and had all of that undone by later writers.

Man, I still have (albeit in a collected volume) the issue with Scott standing over Jean's grave immediatly after the Dark Phoenix fiasco, promising not to retreat within a shell or forget to enjoy life because learning to do that was the greatest gift Jean ever gave him. Did no present X-men writer ever actually read the Dark phoenix story? You'd think with the number of reprints and "return of the Dark Phoenix" stories they must have.

[Enigma]

About the Red Hulks, that's stupid. The Red Hulk and who he really is, is one thing. But to introduce a Red She Hulk? Another Green She Hulk? Talk about milking it for all its worth.

Why oh why do I have pictured in my mind the Hulk Squad, with every Hulk being a member?

I'm also waiting for Marvel to travel further down the stupid path and reveal a Pink Hulk, Blue Hulk, White Hulk, Black Hulk.... and so forth and so forth...

[Tsyroc]

About the Red Hulks, that's stupid. The Red Hulk and who he really is, is one thing. But to introduce a Red She Hulk? Another Green She Hulk? Talk about milking it for all its worth.

Why oh why do I have pictured in my mind the Hulk Squad, with every Hulk being a member?

I'm also waiting for Marvel to travel further down the stupid path and reveal a Pink Hulk, Blue Hulk, White Hulk, Black Hulk.... and so forth and so forth...

I
The other green She-Hulk is much more like a green version of Thundra IMO. I haven't seen her in much though.

Don't forget that Banner has two sons running around. At least one of whom can change into a Hulk.

[Ahriman238]

About the Red Hulks, that's stupid. The Red Hulk and who he really is, is one thing. But to introduce a Red She Hulk? Another Green She Hulk? Talk about milking it for all its worth.

Why oh why do I have pictured in my mind the Hulk Squad, with every Hulk being a member?

I'm also waiting for Marvel to travel further down the stupid path and reveal a Pink Hulk, Blue Hulk, White Hulk, Black Hulk.... and so forth and so forth...

Skaar, Son of Hulk. A-Bomb is blue. Oh, and in a recent Avengers story Norman Osborn gave himself the power to dteal other people's powers. He used it on Red Hulk and became... Purple Hulk.

[Ford Prefect]

Uhhh... since when has Cyclops not been an arrogant ass that only cares about mutants and Jean Grey to the point of stupidity?

That said, technically Spider-Man is an Avenger, so the X-Men are toast.

While I couldn't help but smile, both Magneto (!!) and Namor (!!!) have joined Cyclops' X-Israel, and the team is generally a lot more potent now than it been in the past (so I hear). On the other hand Stark managed to beat Erik through bullshit and Ben Grimm took out Namor in an underwater duel because he has been working the fuck out or something so it turned out not to be relevant. :v

[Tsyroc]

While I couldn't help but smile, both Magneto (!!) and Namor (!!!) have joined Cyclops' X-Israel, and the team is generally a lot more potent now than it been in the past (so I hear). On the other hand Stark managed to beat Erik through bullshit and Ben Grimm took out Namor in an underwater duel because he has been working the fuck out or something so it turned out not to be relevant. :v

Doesn't Stark often defeat people through techno bullshit? Way back when he defeated a reserected Terrax by absorbing a shot from his cosmic axe, amping it up and shooting it back at Terrax. Him being able to pull some mumbo-jumbo against Magneto is less far fetched than human super tech defeating a Herald of Galactus. Being able to defeat Magneto has probably been on the list of Avengers "just in case" things for a long time and Stark went in to this knowing Magneto was there. Since I haven't read the comic I don't know if it was something he planned or if it was a complete ass pull. Knowing how Marvel has been lately I bet it was a complete ass pull.

Grimm has needed a bit of an upgrade lately. He always seems to be the one character who doesn't go up in strength, or at least not for long. Against Hulk in WW Hulk it was no contest and he was lucky not to have died. They've also gone and boosted She-Hulk in strength. Apparently all she needed to be in the Hulk Class was to work out a lot as her human self and that translated into her being Class 100. So the Thing has been dropping significantly in the big boy weight lifting class for awhile now. It's kind of nice that they decided to do something about it. Even if him beating Namor in the water is stupid.

Grimm has always worked out but usually as the Thing so that makes getting a really effective work out difficult. Still, even though I'm a big Thing fan, Ben defeating Namor in the water seems a bit far fetched even if he's been working out a lot. I wouldn't have even expected his stronger spikey form to be able to defeat Namor in the water.

[Ford Prefect]

I don't mean he was literally working out, that was just a joke. I don't really follow comic books, but this was so gonzo that I picked it up through osmosis. To Magneto's credit Stark's increasingly ludicrous methods to counter his abilities don't work exactly as advertised and Erik had to have a metnal breakdown or something in orbit before Stark could get a win.

[Tsyroc]

I don't mean he was literally working out, that was just a joke. I don't really follow comic books, but this was so gonzo that I picked it up through osmosis. To Magneto's credit Stark's increasingly ludicrous methods to counter his abilities don't work exactly as advertised and Erik had to have a metnal breakdown or something in orbit before Stark could get a win.

Well, after the She-Hulk getting oodles stronger through working out you can see how I took it literally.


I looked up the Thing/Namor fight via Google. I didn't get the whole fight but judging by what I saw the Thing only sort of wins. Spoiler

He pins Namor to the sea floor with a couple of giant teeth Grimm had pulled from one Namor's giant fish. The last page shows the thing coming out of the water making a comment about the next time he fights Namor. In the background you can see Namor flying out of the water. So not really much of win, other than the Thing got a pin.

One thing I found out about the versus battles books is that they include tid bits along the way. One of which was the Thing's fist hits with the same force as being hit by a car going 52 MPH. I hate to go all Sheldon Cooper but the force is going to vary a lot depending on which car is the basis. So that note seems really stupid IMO.

Incidentally, I'm not sure if everyone is aware that the main fights are expanded in books that only cover those fights. I just looked up a check list and it's pretty long.

[Ahriman238]

One thing I found out about the versus battles books is that they include tid bits along the way. One of which was the Thing's fist hits with the same force as being hit by a car going 52 MPH. I hate to go all Sheldon Cooper but the force is going to vary a lot depending on which car is the basis. So that note seems really stupid IMO.

Apparently the impact of Colossus against the Helicarrier registered on seismographs several states away.

[Gandalf]

I picked up the first issue of this out of curiosity. This book was advertised as a good jumping on point for the curious. I was so lost it was ridiculous. Why was Cyclops with Magneto? Were there always only a few hundred mutants?

Is there some sort of prologue I missed?

[Ahriman238]

I picked up the first issue of this out of curiosity. This book was advertised as a good jumping on point for the curious. I was so lost it was ridiculous. Why was Cyclops with Magneto? Were there always only a few hundred mutants?

Is there some sort of prologue I missed?

Hoo. Boy.

A couple years back Joe Queseda (the same genius who gave us Civil War and One More Day) tired of all these stories with too many mutants to keep track of, arranged an event (the House of M) in which the Scarlet Witch (Avenger, daughter of Magneto, reality-warper) rewrote history to make Magneto king of the world, at the urgning of her brother. When that all fell apart, and the crazy woman with god-like powers had to deal with daddy choosing the mutant 'race' over her and her brother, she reality back to rights sans mutants.

So there's just under 300 mutants in the entire world, with no new ones being born, a species on the verge of extinction. Even Dr. Strange can't help because the "no more mutants" thing is apparently now one of the laws of physics and can't be altered without undoing all creation.

Naturally religious nuts were proclaiming this a Miracle from God and the need to finish the job. The X-men moved to California to shelter the rest of the mutants, and when it became clear while Norman Osborn was head of SHIELD/HAMMER (another long story) that they were never going to be left alone, they crashed Magneto's old orbital asteroid base into the Pacific a dozen miles out from San Francisco, and declared their new Utopia a sovreign nation.

Magneto is helping them because, well, there's really not enough left for fraticidal struggle. And Cyclops is being a bonehead about the return of the Phoenix because he's clinging to any hope to restore the mutants.

[avatarxprime]

So there's just under 300 mutants in the entire world, with no new ones being born, a species on the verge of extinction. Even Dr. Strange can't help because the "no more mutants" thing is apparently now one of the laws of physics and can't be altered without undoing all creation.

Just under 300 ? When did that happen? I thought there were only 198 left, hence the series after the depowering of the same name. Although since Hope came back from the future there have been like 6 or 7 mutants born. Of course of those mutants born like 3 are dead already so...

[Havok]

Man, they need an H-Day.

[mr friendly guy]

So how does Marvel's multicolour Hulks compare to DC's multicolour lantern corps.

Reading this thread the only thing I liked was the Avengers beating the X-men. And no I am not going to even search for an online copy of this comic because after reading the descriptions and reviews, its most probably not worth the bandwidth.

[Ahriman238]

So there's just under 300 mutants in the entire world, with no new ones being born, a species on the verge of extinction. Even Dr. Strange can't help because the "no more mutants" thing is apparently now one of the laws of physics and can't be altered without undoing all creation.

Just under 300 ? When did that happen? I thought there were only 198 left, hence the series after the depowering of the same name. Although since Hope came back from the future there have been like 6 or 7 mutants born. Of course of those mutants born like 3 are dead already so...

... ok, 200.

[Majin Gojira]

So how does Marvel's multicolour Hulks compare to DC's multicolour lantern corps.

Simpler, actually. Less characters to keep track of, all easily identifiable visually . Greg Pak handled it rather well. The less said about Loeb's Red Hulk, the better (though with Pak's help on the event portion of it, it became at least readable).

Pak's the kind of writer who uses the fact that Hulk/Banner's had three wives (Betty, Caeira and Jarella), 4 children (Lyja, Skaar, Hiro-Kila and possible the second/new Scorpion) and at least 3 other romantic interests who aren't currently dead or seeing other people yet to his advantage rather than detriment. Then again, this is the guy who gave us Planet Hulk and The Incredible Hercules series, which are both Ace (conclusions are a little meh, but the main stories themselves are very re-readable).

He crops the cast down (Lyja, the "Savage" She-Hulk, being more of a side-kick to Jennifer Walter's "Sensational" She-Hulk; Scorpion being in Comic book limbo, and the other son being a villain they end up killing in Pak's run) and lets most red hulk craziness be as villains/anti-heroes or not showing up at all. Mostly, it's Bruce Banner and Skaar, with Rick Jones (Blue Abomination/"A-Bomb"), the She-Hulks (Well, Red and Sensational mainly) and even Korg and the other Warbound from Planet Hulk showing up as supporting cast members in roughly that amount of screen time order.

[SylasGaunt]

I've actually really started liking Red Hulk's series since Loeb was taken off of it and I've kind liked what they're doing in building him a rogue's gallery.. and I admit I did get a good laugh out of Rulk ending up with his own 'Ross' chasing after him (because one of the things he did during his 'bad' phase was fake his own death).


As for AvX.. yeah it's stupid. My favorite bit has to be Scott's 'The Avengers are trying to kidnap a girl like Nazis!' press release. Yeah what to be a dishonest prick and fail to mention the incoming Solar System killer who's been killing billions on the way to Earth. But hey, Captain America's a terrible person for wanting to move her off planet just in case Cyke wishing really hard for it not to blow the place up doesn't work.

[Tsyroc]

I've actually really started liking Red Hulk's series since Loeb was taken off of it and I've kind liked what they're doing in building him a rogue's gallery.. and I admit I did get a good laugh out of Rulk ending up with his own 'Ross' chasing after him (because one of the things he did during his 'bad' phase was fake his own death).

I've been liking the Red Hulk series too. It's been more entertaining than standard Hulk has been for years. His rogues gallery has been interesting in that even those characters have evolved a bit in the short time they've been around.

As for AvX.. yeah it's stupid. My favorite bit has to be Scott's 'The Avengers are trying to kidnap a girl like Nazis!' press release. Yeah what to be a dishonest prick and fail to mention the incoming Solar System killer who's been killing billions on the way to Earth. But hey, Captain America's a terrible person for wanting to move her off planet just in case Cyke wishing really hard for it not to blow the place up doesn't work.

I haven't read enough of the series to have seen that about the press release or the bit about Cap wanting Hope off planet. To me that makes the Avengers look more sensible and Cyclops more of a douche. He does remember that the Phoenix ate a fucking star back when it was pretending to be Jean Grey? 4.5 billion Debari down the tubes but everyone is supposed to just sit back and wait for the Phoenix to come to Earth, possess Hope, all in hopes that the power of the Phoenix might be able to undo what happened to mutants. What a fucking jack ass.

Why doesn't he just invite Galactus to lunch and offer him the Earth in exchange for kick starting the mutant gene again or something?

[Cosmic Average]

I've been liking the Red Hulk series too. It's been more entertaining than standard Hulk has been for years. His rogues gallery has been interesting in that even those characters have evolved a bit in the short time they've been around.

I'll say! It's one of the best series out there. Red Hulk has been remade into a very complex and interesting character. Like his preference for android and robot companionship over human companionship.

It's a thousand times better than this Avengers vs X-Men claptrap.

[MrDakka]

To me that makes the Avengers look more sensible and Cyclops more of a douche.

When hasn't Cyke been a douche?

[Ahriman238]

To me that makes the Avengers look more sensible and Cyclops more of a douche.

When hasn't Cyke been a douche?

During all of Claremont's run?

[Majin Gojira]

To me that makes the Avengers look more sensible and Cyclops more of a douche.

When hasn't Cyke been a douche?

Also, during Joss Whedon's run with Astonishing X-Men.

Where Cyke was BOSS.

[MrDakka]

During all of Claremont's run?

D'uh, facepalm. Forgot he wrote Days of Future Past, damn.

Also, during Joss Whedon's run with Astonishing X-Men.

Where Cyke was BOSS.

Haven't read this, thought it would be all screwed up with House of M, Civil War stuff.