Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
In this particular case, I most certainly do.Howedar wrote:Do you take pleasure in watching people throw away their careers, their livelihoods, and their freedom?
Seconded. I believe he deserves that fate due to his severely cheapening the idea that everyone should have someone to defend him. He let the NAACP down, he let his supporters down, and he let down anyone who dares speak as an advocate for anyone charged with a heinous crime!Frank Hipper wrote:In this particular case, I most certainly do.Howedar wrote:Do you take pleasure in watching people throw away their careers, their livelihoods, and their freedom?
He chose to entertain himself with something that degrades the word "barbaric"; I'm enjoying this immensely, and I sincerely hope he ends up out on the street sucking cock for beer money.
The concern is association with professional gamblers could lead to a compromising relationship, which could potentially queer playoff races. And in the wake of the Tim Donaghy scandal in the NBA, there is zero chance of any sort of tolerance being extended.Plekhanov wrote:Why what's so terrible about gambling that it's illegal or gets you banned from the NFL?General Deathdealer wrote:I just hope that one of the charges he pleads guilty to is gambling. If he does that, then according to NFL policy, he will be banned for life.
It's not as of he was betting that team he was playing for was going to lose or even on American Football at all.
Not with his herpes, you don't. Too many innocent people would be afflicted if Vick sucks dick.Einhander Sn0m4n wrote:Seconded.Frank Hipper wrote:In this particular case, I most certainly do.Howedar wrote:Do you take pleasure in watching people throw away their careers, their livelihoods, and their freedom?
He chose to entertain himself with something that degrades the word "barbaric"; I'm enjoying this immensely, and I sincerely hope he ends up out on the street sucking cock for beer money.
What if they deserved none of the above in the first place?Howedar wrote:Do you take pleasure in watching people throw away their careers, their livelihoods, and their freedom?
It's called "mockery of stupid people".Howedar wrote:Do you take pleasure in watching people throw away their careers, their livelihoods, and their freedom?
So the tough guy admitted to bankrolling gambling and killing the dogs, but not actually gambling.Associated Press
NFL Suspends Michael Vick Indefinitely
By LARRY O'DELL 08.24.07, 6:12 PM ET
RICHMOND, Va. -
The NFL indefinitely suspended Michael Vick without pay Friday just hours after he acknowledged in court papers that he did, indeed, bankroll gambling on dogfighting and helped kill some dogs not worthy of the pit.
Vick, however, insisted he placed no bets of his own nor took any winnings.
In disciplining Vick, commissioner Roger Goodell said Vick's admitted conduct was "not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible" and regardless whether he personally placed bets, "your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player."
Goodell freed the Falcons to "assert any claims or remedies" to recover $22 million of Vick's signing bonus from the 10-year, $130 million contract he signed in 2004.
The commissioner didn't speak to Vick but based his deicison on the court filings. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Goodell may meet with Vick in the future, but that hasn't been determined.
"You have engaged in conduct detrimental to the welfare of the NFL and have violated the league's personal conduct policy," Goodell told Vick in a letter.
Earlier Friday, a "summary of facts" signed by Vick was filed along with his written plea agreement on a federal dogfighting conspiracy charge. He will appear before U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson to formally plead guilty Monday and then await sentencing at a later date.
The court documents and a statement by Vick's legal team seek to portray him as less involved in the dogfighting ring than three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty and agreed to testify against the Atlanta Falcons quarterback.
"While Mr. Vick is not personally charged with or responsible for committing all of the acts alleged in the indictment, as with any conspiracy charge, he is taking full responsibility for his actions and the actions of the others involved," the defense team said in a written statement after the plea agreement was filed.
"Mr. Vick apologizes for his poor judgment in associating himself with those involved in dog fighting and realizes he should never have been involved in this conduct," the statement said.
Vick signed the plea agreement late Thursday.
"Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," the summary of facts said, echoing language in plea agreements by the three co-defendants.
The statement said that when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants - Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.
"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.
According to the statement, Vick also was involved with the others in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in testing sessions last April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging.
"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts" of Vick, Phillips and Peace, the statement said.
In the plea agreement, the government committed to recommending a sentence on the low end of the federal sentencing guideline range of a year to 18 months. However, the conspiracy charge is punishable by up to five years in prison, and the judge is not bound by any recommendation or by the guidelines.
Hudson has a reputation for imposing stiff sentences, according to lawyers who have appeared in his court. The judge will set a sentencing date at Monday's hearing.
"Our position has been that we are going to try to help Judge Hudson understand all the facts and Michael's role," Vick's defense attorney, Billy Martin, said in telephone interview. "Michael's role was different than others associated with this incident."
Martin said Vick will "speak to the public and explain his actions." Though he declined to say when and where, the Tom Joyner Morning Show, a syndicated program based in Dallas, said it will have a live interview with Vick on Tuesday.
The U.S. attorney's office, which has declined to comment on the case, said it would issue a statement after the hearing.
The case began in April when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick's cousin raided a Surry County property owned by Vick and found dozens of dogs, some injured, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting.
A federal indictment issued in July charged Vick, Peace, Phillips and Taylor with an interstate dogfighting conspiracy. Vick initially denied any involvement, and all four men pleaded innocent.
Taylor was the first to change his plea to guilty, saying Vick financed the dogfighting ring's gambling and operations. Peace and Phillips soon followed, alleging that Vick joined them in killing dogs that did not measure up in test fights.
The sickening details outlined in the indictment and other court papers prompted a public backlash against Vick, who had been one of the NFL's most popular players.
As animal-rights groups mobilized against Vick and sponsors dropped him, Vick was barred from the Falcons training camp, but neither the NFL nor the team have taken further action.
NFL writer Dave Goldberg in New York and Associated Press Writers Matthew Barakat in McLean, Va., and Michael Felberbaum in Richmond contributed to this report.
You're not, though.spaceaddict wrote:I would argue an NFL Quarterback or any other player has a positive effect on society.
I'm saying almost all professional sports players are overpaid, what about the doctor that had to reset his leg after he dislocated it, and after it's all done and through, what has he done it for? Money and Fame, what does he have to show, what are essentially self-inflicted lifelong injuries that are going to affect any job performance he has after his football career.Define overpaid. If his boss wants to pay him x amount and he is in line with other quarterbacks,he is getting paid normally.
Good thing I didn't say everyone should have the same pay, that's a strawman.Just because it isn't in your realm of pay scale, doesn't mean he is overpaid.
You see, there's our difference, I recognize that cruelty animals is one of the first indications of a sociopath with the capability to kill people. I also feel that animal abuse laws should be brought up to at least the current level as child abuse laws, child abuse laws would of course be raised by to an equivelant.After he pays his debt to society he should have a chance to come back to the job he had before, if his employers allow him to do it.
Vick's wasted fortune of historic proportions
Dogfighting's cost: Salary, deals lost top $120 million
By TIM TUCKER
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 08/26/07
Falcons quarterback Michael Vick's guilty plea on federal dogfighting charges could wind up costing him well over $100 million.
Vick will lose $71 million in salary over the next seven years if the Falcons eventually terminate his contract, which legal experts say the team has the right to do.
He also figures to lose as much as $50 million in endorsement income over the next decade, according to an estimate by the University of Oregon's Warsaw Sports Marketing Center.
And the Falcons will try to recoup $22 million in bonuses already paid to Vick, a person with knowledge of the team's plans said Saturday.
Then add in Vick's legal fees — which will run well into the hundreds of thousands of dollars if not higher, legal experts say — and a possible fine of up to $250,000.
Paul Swangard, the Oregon sports marketing center's managing director, said he can think of no other athlete who has hurt himself financially as much as Vick has.
"He has created a new [height] of lost opportunity," Swangard said. "There's an inherent sadness in seeing someone with so much potential wave it all goodbye with poor decisions."
The NFL superstar's attorneys on Friday filed a plea agreement with prosecutors stemming from his indictment last month. Vick is scheduled to formally enter his plea at 10:30 a.m. Monday in U.S. District Court in Richmond. He will be sentenced later.
Also Friday, the NFL suspended Vick without pay indefinitely.
The Falcons signed Vick, a quarterback with a penchant for the spectacular, to a 10-year, $130 million contract in December 2004, one day after he was selected to the Pro Bowl for the second time. A month later, he led the team to the NFC championship game. Endorsement offers poured in.
"A Falcon for life," team owner Arthur Blank called Vick upon signing him to the largest contract in league history.
According to the NFL Players Association, that contract calls for Vick to receive a salary of $6 million this season, followed by $7.5 million in 2008, $9 million in 2009, $10.5 million in 2010, $12 million in 2011, $12.5 million in 2012 and $13.5 million in 2013, plus incentive bonuses.
Now, all of that money could be gone.
The only part of Vick's contract that might matter now is the clause that allows the Falcons to terminate it if he "has engaged in personal conduct reasonably judged by club to adversely affect or reflect on club."
Michael McCann, a Mississippi College School of Law professor who often writes on sports legal issues, said the Falcons clearly can terminate the contract, although legal and salary-cap tactics will drive the timing of such action. For example, the Falcons probably would have to keep Vick under contract — albeit suspended without pay — until resolving the issue of signing bonus repayments.
"I think they're going to argue the signing bonus reflects an understanding Vick would play for the totality of the contract, and clearly he's not able to satisfy that," McCann said. "They're not going to get all of it back, but I think they have a pretty compelling argument to get some of it back."
How much could be debated, because of the creative way in which the Falcons structured Vick's bonuses for salary-cap management purposes.
The Falcons have declined to say how they'll deal with Vick's contract, beyond Blank's comment to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution on Aug. 17 that the team will "move very decisively."
If the Falcons cut Vick, it is unclear when or whether he could join another NFL team. That will depend on the length of his NFL suspension, the length of his expected federal prison term and possible state prosecution in Virginia. The maximum prison term in the federal case is five years, although sentencing guidelines likely would suggest 12 to 18 months.
If Vick returns to the league, it likely would be at a drastically reduced salary.
Unlike Vick's football contract, the specifics of his endorsement deals with Nike, Rawlings and other companies have never been made public.
But in its ranking of America's highest-paid athletes last year, Sports Illustrated estimated Vick's endorsement income at $7 million annually. And Oregon's Swangard said that, if not for the dogfighting scandal, a "conservative" estimate of Vick's ongoing endorsement earnings over the next 10 years would have been an average of $5 million per year.
"There is $50 million on the marketing side that has disappeared," Swangard said.
Nike on Friday terminated Vick's endorsement contract without pay, and at least seven other deals have either been suspended or allowed to expire.
"There is no corporation that will touch Michael Vick again, ever," said Ronn Torossian, president and chief executive officer of New York-based 5W Public Relations, which has represented athletes and entertainers.
The federal indictment against Vick and his three co-defendants described the dog-fighting operation in chilling detail, including accounts of dogs being shot, drowned or electrocuted if they did not perform well. Animal rights groups launched protests.
"The best advice any PR person can give Vick is 'work out, lift weights and run a lot while in jail,'" Torossian said, "because the only money he has a chance to make in the future is on the football field, not off it."
Swangard said Vick perhaps could get a small endorsement deal from an upstart company seeking "awareness" for a product if he makes it back to the NFL. "But his ability to be a mainstream endorser is gone forever."
The guilty plea will save Vick money in one respect. The case, sparked by a police raid at Vick's rural Virginia property in April, has been resolved quickly.
"His [five] attorneys are high-profile, high-charging attorneys, but it really hasn't been that long a litigation," McCann said. "I would say [the legal fees are] at least in the hundreds of thousands, but if it went to trial, it would be in the millions."
The 1919 White Sox fixing the World Series comes to mind.Patrick Degan wrote:The concern is association with professional gamblers could lead to a compromising relationship, which could potentially queer playoff races. And in the wake of the Tim Donaghy scandal in the NBA, there is zero chance of any sort of tolerance being extended.Plekhanov wrote: Why what's so terrible about gambling that it's illegal or gets you banned from the NFL?
It's not as of he was betting that team he was playing for was going to lose or even on American Football at all.
To equate the gambling portion of what Vick did to Tim Donaghy is crazy.Elfdart wrote:The 1919 White Sox fixing the World Series comes to mind.Patrick Degan wrote:The concern is association with professional gamblers could lead to a compromising relationship, which could potentially queer playoff races. And in the wake of the Tim Donaghy scandal in the NBA, there is zero chance of any sort of tolerance being extended.Plekhanov wrote: Why what's so terrible about gambling that it's illegal or gets you banned from the NFL?
It's not as of he was betting that team he was playing for was going to lose or even on American Football at all.
Post-Donaghy, even the appearance of consorting with gamblers and gambling is not going to be tolerated. Doesn't matter if the betting was directly connected to the NFL or not. As it is, however, it's just one more item to make Vick persona-non-grata in the NFL. His very name is now poison. He won't win a second-string slot on some half-assed semipro team in a Prairie-states league or even Arena-2 ball after this.spaceaddict wrote:To equate the gambling portion of what Vick did to Tim Donaghy is crazy. Betting on which dog will kill the other isn't even on the same plane as an official of a proffesional sport having a vested interest in it's outcome and a side bet.
For someone who bet on dog fights? Good. I just hope he doesn't expect anyone to feel sorry for him.Patrick Degan wrote:Post-Donaghy, even the appearance of consorting with gamblers and gambling is not going to be tolerated. Doesn't matter if the betting was directly connected to the NFL or not. As it is, however, it's just one more item to make Vick persona-non-grata in the NFL. His very name is now poison. He won't win a second-string slot on some half-assed semipro team in a Prairie-states league or even Arena-2 ball after this.spaceaddict wrote:To equate the gambling portion of what Vick did to Tim Donaghy is crazy. Betting on which dog will kill the other isn't even on the same plane as an official of a proffesional sport having a vested interest in it's outcome and a side bet.
I don't believe for a moment that he feels bad about the dogfighting, and I "reject" that his apology was sincere. Most people find this behavior reprehensible and I can't imagine he understands why that is so. He's just sorry he was caught.Monday, August 27, 2007
Vick to be sentenced Dec. 10 after guilty plea
ESPN.com news services
RICHMOND, Va. -- Michael Vick pleaded guilty Monday to a federal dogfighting charge and awaited a Dec. 10 sentencing date that could send the NFL star to prison.
In a statement Monday, Vick said he took full responsiblity for his actions.
"First, I want to apologize for all the things that I have done and I have allowed to happen. I want to personally apologize to Commissioner Goodell, Arthur Blank, Coach Bobby Petrino, and my Atlanta Falcons teammates, for I was not honest and forthright in our discussions," Vick said.
"I was shamed and totally disappointed in myself, to say the least. I want to apologize to all the young kids out there for my immature acts. What I did was very immature, so that means I need to grow up."
Vick said he now has rejected dogfighting. "Dogfighting is a terrible thing. I reject it," he said.
"I totally ask for forgiveness and understanding as I move forward to better Michael Vick the person, not the football player," Vick said.
"I take full responsibility for my actions … I am totally responsible."
The plea by the suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback was accepted by U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson, who asked: "Are you entering the plea of guilty to a conspiracy charge because you are in fact guilty?"
Vick replied, "Yes, sir."
Hudson emphasized he is not bound by sentencing guidelines and can impose the maximum sentence of up to five years in prison.
"You're taking your chances here. You'll have to live with whatever decision I make," Hudson.
In his written plea filed in federal court Friday, Vick admitted helping kill six to eight pit bulls and supplying money for gambling on the fights. He said he did not personally place any bets or share in any winnings.
The NFL suspended him indefinitely and without pay Friday after his plea agreement was filed. Merely associating with gamblers can trigger a lifetime ban under the league's personal conduct policy.
ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports that Vick stands to lose approximately $100 million because of his conviction.
In announcing the suspension, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell opened the way for the Falcons to attempt to recover $22 million of Vick's signing bonus from the 10-year, $130 million contract he signed in 2004.
Federal prosecutors recommended 12-18 months in prison.
"A first-time offender might well receive no jail time for this offense," U.S. Attorney Chuck Rosenberg said in a statement. "We thought, however, that the conduct in this conspiracy was heinous, cruel and inhumane" so three of the four defendants, including Vick, should receive harsher sentences.
The first defendant to plead guilty left the conspiracy in 2004 and is not as culpable, he said.
The case began in late April when authorities conducting a drug investigation of Vick's cousin raided the former Virginia Tech star's rural Surry County property and seized dozens of dogs, some injured, and equipment commonly used in dogfighting.
Vick's plea came hours before the Falcons are scheduled to play an exhibition game at home against the Cincinnati Bengals. This will be the first chance for the team to see what effect Vick's case has on attendance at the Georgia Dome. Vick wears the biggest-selling jersey in team history and is given much credit for the team's 51 consecutive sellouts.
After initially denying his involvement, Vick has said little publicly about the case. Privately, he met with Goodell and Falcons owner Arthur Blank when the investigation was just beginning, and almost certainly lied to both.
Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.
Here's a transcript of what he said today (the video is available at this link as well):Stravo wrote:There was no sincerity in the statement. In fact everything from the "I'm not much of a public speaker" bit seemed scripted and rehearsed. The I found Jesus moment was also pandering. Finding faith should be something private and it was relegated to a throw away line.
The NFL better have balls and keep this asshole off any professional team for the rest of his life.
My favorite part was when he said he wasn't one to point fingers at anyone else. Yeah, well it's hard to do so after everyone else involved in this sad affair has rolled over and implicated you, eh Mikey?"For most of my life, I've been a football player, not a public speaker, so, you know, I really don't know, you know, how to say what I really want to say.
"You know, I understand it's -- it's important or not important, you know, as far as what you say but how you say things. So, you know, I take this opportunity just to speak from the heart.
"First, I want to apologize, you know, for all the things that -- that I've done and that I have allowed to happen. I want to personally apologize to commissioner Goodell, Arthur Blank, coach Bobby Petrino, my Atlanta Falcons teammates, you know, for our -- for our previous discussions that we had. And I was not honest and forthright in our discussions, and, you know, I was ashamed and totally disappointed in myself to say the least.
"I want to apologize to all the young kids out there for my immature acts and, you know, what I did was, what I did was very immature so that means I need to grow up.
"I totally ask for forgiveness and understanding as I move forward to bettering Michael Vick the person, not the football player.
"I take full responsibility for my actions. For one second will I sit right here -- not for one second will I sit right here and point the finger and try to blame anybody else for my actions or what I've done.
"I'm totally responsible, and those things just didn't have to happen. I feel like we all make mistakes. It's just I made a mistake in using bad judgment and making bad decisions. And you know, those things, you know, just can't happen.
"Dog fighting is a terrible thing, and I did reject it.
"I'm upset with myself, and, you know, through this situation I found Jesus and asked him for forgiveness and turned my life over to God. And I think that's the right thing to do as of right now.
"Like I said, for this -- for this entire situation I never pointed the finger at anybody else, I accepted responsibility for my actions of what I did and now I have to pay the consequences for it. But in a sense, I think it will help, you know, me as a person. I got a lot to think about in the next year or so.
"I offer my deepest apologies to everybody out in there in the world who was affected by this whole situation. And if I'm more disappointed with myself than anything it's because of all the young people, young kids that I've let down, who look at Michael Vick as a role model. And to have to go through this and put myself in this situation, you know, I hope that every young kid out there in the world watching this interview right now who's been following the case will use me as an example to using better judgment and making better decisions.
"Once again, I offer my deepest apologies to everyone. And I will redeem myself. I have to.
"So I got a lot of down time, a lot of time to think about my actions and what I've done and how to make Michael Vick a better person.
"Thank you.''
Thats right! He's found Da LORD'a! What any good person faced with his own failings does, he gives it to Da Lord'a and POOF! He's a new man! Yep! no more dog fights for him!"I'm upset with myself, and, you know, through this situation I found Jesus and asked him for forgiveness and turned my life over to God. And I think that's the right thing to do as of right now.
The sad thing is that his apologists and supporters will see that as some sort of meaningful contrition, that he's all the more worthy of (mindless) forgiveness.Crossroads Inc. wrote:I liked this party:
Thats right! He's found Da LORD'a! What any good person faced with his own failings does, he gives it to Da Lord'a and POOF! He's a new man! Yep! no more dog fights for him!"I'm upset with myself, and, you know, through this situation I found Jesus and asked him for forgiveness and turned my life over to God. And I think that's the right thing to do as of right now.
