Pat Tillman Update: Multiple head shots.

[Flagg]

It's abominable to me that years later we still don't have a fucking clue what happened to Pat Tillman.

Sure we do. In fact, there's a IG big ass report (BIG PDF) that came out last year. It even mentions the "3 forehead woulds within an approximate 2-inch diameter." It even criticizes the third AR 15-6 investigation for failing to interview snipers attached to Serial 2 regarding the suspicious wounds. In fact, it seems the only thing AP did to obtain these documents was to go to Defenselink.

What's new are these Army physicians moonlighting as a CSIs drawing their own conclusions about how the shooting went down. You should note that Bryan O'Neal, who came under fire with Tillman that day, hotly disputes this speculation.

Hey fukctard, those "Army Physicians" are medical examiners. You know what a medical examiner routinely does, right? They investigate murders. Moron.

[Flagg]

It's abominable to me that years later we still don't have a fucking clue what happened to Pat Tillman.

Sure we do. In fact, there's a IG big ass report (BIG PDF) that came out last year. It even mentions the "3 forehead woulds within an approximate 2-inch diameter." It even criticizes the third AR 15-6 investigation for failing to interview snipers attached to Serial 2 regarding the suspicious wounds. In fact, it seems the only thing AP did to obtain these documents was to go to Defenselink.

What's new are these Army physicians moonlighting as a CSIs drawing their own conclusions about how the shooting went down. You should note that Bryan O'Neal, who came under fire with Tillman that day, hotly disputes this speculation.

Hey fukctard, those "Army Physicians" are medical examiners. You know what a medical examiner routinely does, right? They investigate murders. Moron.

Note to self: When calling someone a fucktard, make sure you spell "fucktard" right...

[chitoryu12]

Hey, you could start a new trend, Flagg! Make up a new "meme" or whatever Wikipedia calls them. Who comes up with these words?

This is a warning for posting a vacuous one liner. You're already on the shit list for this kind of thing, so get your head on straight or you'll be in trouble sooner or later.
~Pablo Sanchez

[Coyote]

OK, first off, something fishy is going on because of all the suspicious wierdness going on around this. It's worth an investigation, for sure. But it leaves a lot of questions unanswered-- the biggest is, "why"?

I'd like to point out that, in the Army, bitching someone out for being a sniveling pissant is very, very, very common. It is something that happens to every soldier in basic training. Ordinary, non-elite, non-combat soldiers get ragged on in ways like this. If an overweight Nintendo-addict wanna-be pencil jockey can tough it out, then a big Ranger boy can handle it too. So I wouldn't hang too much on that hook, it sounds like someone may be fishing.

The circumstances, however, are unquestionably bizarre. An honest accident is just that-- an honest accident, and we all know about friendly-fire casualties from Desert Storm in the 90's and the early stages of this war.

I personally see three possible explanations:
If I apply maximum Benefit Of The Doubt, I see a chain of command that panicked at the PR fallout of killing a popular celebrity. They had a firefight that went wrong, he got smoked by his buddies on accident, and they covered it up to avoid a publicity blunder. They then got so heavily invasted in the cover-up than any perceived success was cause for celebration in maintaining it, and they are bewildered that people won't just let him have a tragic hero's way out.

Or, it was a stupid accident-- involving a mistaken firefight with no one at all but hallucinations brought on by fear, heat, and shadow, or something else. Embarrassed, the Army covered it up and things got out of control and, again, by this time they'd invested in the cover-up and they had to ride it out even to the point of ridiculousness,

Or, with maximum cynicism, he was deliberately dragged out and murdered by his own troops. Which puts us back at "but what the fuck for?"

What could cause [ordinarily] highly-trained, disciplined Rangers in a combat unit deployed to a war zone gain from killing a famous person whom they know will be followed up on? If one guy went batshit and killed Tillman, ordinarily one would expect the others to turn on him for killing a comrade. The only motive I can come up with is insane jealousy, or if Tillman was an overbearing egotistical asshole. But even among ordinary soldiers this crops up, and it doesn't lead to fratricide, and among the more disciplined and [theoretically] inured to stress Rangers, it would be less likely. And damn near impossible to expect the entire chain of command to go along with it.

[metavac]

Hey fukctard, those "Army Physicians" are medical examiners. You know what a medical examiner routinely does, right? They investigate murders. Moron.

Yo, dumbass. Name one medical examiner that does. While you're at it, name one medical examiner that's not a physician.

[Coyote]

The title "Medical Examiner" is, I believe, used to describe someone whose primary job is forensic pathology. In the USA, a Medical Examiner is frequently called a Coroner.

Many jurisdictions have a coroner or their equivalent. Medical examiner is a frequent alternative title in the United States; however, unlike a coroner, a medical examiner must be a licensed pathologist.

That means examining a dead body to determine cause of death for death certificates.

[metavac]

You missed the entire context of it and took a sentence fragment.

What other context did I need? I was showing that there was an IG report released a year ago that addressed these very issues.

That is not a quote...

Oh, it most definitely is. It's in quotes. It's lifted right from the document. Therefore, it's a quote and an accurate one at that.

Which is an obvious lie as Elfdart pointed out.

Talk about cutting and pasting. From that same post: "What's new are these Army physicians moonlighting as a CSIs drawing their own conclusions about how the shooting went down." Ya'done.

[metavac]

The title "Medical Examiner" is, I believe, used to describe someone whose primary job is forensic pathology. In the USA, a Medical Examiner is frequently called a Coroner.

Many jurisdictions have a coroner or their equivalent. Medical examiner is a frequent alternative title in the United States; however, unlike a coroner, a medical examiner must be a licensed pathologist.

That means examining a dead body to determine cause of death for death certificates.

That's absolutely correct.

[Elfdart]

OK, first off, something fishy is going on because of all the suspicious wierdness going on around this. It's worth an investigation, for sure. But it leaves a lot of questions unanswered-- the biggest is, "why"?

When Tillman's brother testified, he said he thought the reason for the coverup was to deflect attention away from Abu Ghraib. Sounds plausible to me.

[brianeyci]

You missed the entire context of it and took a sentence fragment.

What other context did I need? I was showing that there was an IG report released a year ago that addressed these very issues.

That is not a quote...

Oh, it most definitely is. It's in quotes. It's lifted right from the document. Therefore, it's a quote and an accurate one at that.

Again with the sentence fragments. Looks like meta-intellect still thinks persistence pays off. It only makes you look foolish. You've got some nerve, spamming links and expecting them to make the argument for you. Lifting a sentence fragment and declaring it a quote, too. There is more in that news article than the three forehead wounds and you know it you pissant. I don't necessarily agree that Tillman was murdered, but your "sure we do" was meta-proof and you know it.

Which is an obvious lie as Elfdart pointed out.

Talk about cutting and pasting. From that same post: "What's new are these Army physicians moonlighting as a CSIs drawing their own conclusions about how the shooting went down." Ya'done.

Did you or did you not claim that the AP took the documents from Defenselink and not through a FOIA request asshole? One day you're going to piss off the wrong person and get banned boy. When that day happens, I'll be pissing on your goalpost shifting lying ass. By the way, the big bad math majors still picking on you? I guess it's time for a meta-comeback. Maybe you'll call my mother a fat cow I feed off of too, now that's what I expect from meta-brain. Next up: meta insults, based on attacking people who have nothing to do with the thread at all. Scratch that -- you already attacked Nitram for no reason other than posting the article and making one comment, you dumbfuck. Peanut brain, pot kettle black.

[metavac]

Again with the sentence fragments.

Save it for somebody who gives a fuck, you lazy shit.

Did you or did you not claim that the AP took the documents from Defenselink and not through a FOIA request asshole?

Obviously, I didn't, jackass.

[brianeyci]

Again with the sentence fragments.

Save it for somebody who gives a fuck, you lazy shit.

Obviously you give a fuck, or you wouldn't have said shit. And you're so lazy you can't tap the arrow key a few more times to highlight a few extra words for the quote. Actually, scratch that. You do it on purpose, to destroy context. You hope people don't read the other posts and see the shit you're trying to pull. That might work on dumbfuck forum, but people here read back and see you for who you are, a fucking lying prick.

Did you or did you not claim that the AP took the documents from Defenselink and not through a FOIA request asshole?

Obviously, I didn't, jackass.

Obviously you're a goalpost shifting fuckface whose debating strategy involves saying as little as possible so you can't be nailed, then accusing people of strawmen despite inconsistencies in your own position. And when you are nailed, never admit wrong. And maybe get personal too, when's that going to happen I've been waiting.

[metavac]

Obviously you give a fuck, or you wouldn't have said shit.

Wow. That reads suspiciously like a battered child desperately craving his next beating because that's all the attention he can get from his folks. Disabusing you of your self-importance in no way elevates your whining to a reasonable objection. That said, it's clear you've given up trying to carry Elfdart's water. Just to be sure, let's parse the rest of your rant.

Obviously you're a goalpost shifting fuckface whose debating strategy involves saying as little as possible so you can't be nailed...

Nothing here...

...then accusing people of strawmen despite inconsistencies in your own position. And when you are nailed, never admit wrong. And maybe get personal too, when's that going to happen I've been waiting.

And nothing here. Fine. I accept your concession, bitch.

[Elfdart]

Let's see: posting a link and either lying about the contents or twisting them into a pretzel or chopping them up like so much parsley -all in the hope that no one actually reads the material and catches you in a lie. Since this is your only stock in trade (aside from incoherent abuse), henceforth this shyster technique of yours will be known as Metavac's Fork. Unfortunately for you, the fact that you just flail away in such cretinous fashion with said Fork does absolutely nothing for you, aside from leaving red puncture wounds on your diminutive weenie.

So fuck you.

[brianeyci]

Obviously you give a fuck, or you wouldn't have said shit.

Wow. That reads suspiciously like a battered child desperately craving his next beating because that's all the attention he can get from his folks. Disabusing you of your self-importance in no way elevates your whining to a reasonable objection. That said, it's clear you've given up trying to carry Elfdart's water. Just to be sure, let's parse the rest of your rant.

Well well so we've come to the crux of the issue. What happened, your parents beat you when you were a kid? Projection is quite the interesting phenomenon. By the way those bad math majors still making fun of your no-math or weak math coding monkey ass? Given up trying to hold Elfdart's water? Another meta-intellect tactic, to create two possibilities, both lies, that either I'm holding Elfdart's water or I've given up holding his water. Elfdart can speak for himself dumbshit, and at no time did I speak for him. He lost patience, since your debating strategy is to keep repeating the same point and deny, deny deny like the Clinton times ten, only with no class.

And nothing here. Fine. I accept your concession, bitch.

Don't you worry meta-intellect. I'm sure your stupidity won't end today, so we'll meet again. And I bet you'll come back after this "accepted concession" and talk more too. Another metatard tactic: always get the last word, no matter how much you're wrong.

[metavac]

Hey, look who's back.

Let's see: posting a link and either lying about the contents or twisting them into a pretzel or chopping them up like so much parsley -all in the hope that no one actually reads the material and catches you in a lie.

So you still feel making shit up allows you to dodge this inconvenient fact: the same post where you claim I denied the existence of testimony from the medical examiners is the same post where I said the following:

"What's new are these Army physicians moonlighting as a CSIs drawing their own conclusions about how the shooting went down."

You're free to whine, of course, but in the end your bluster is belied by the facts. Deal with it.

[metavac]

By the way those bad math majors still making fun of your no-math or weak math coding monkey ass?

You brought this up before. What math majors?

[Elfdart]

Hey, look who's back.

Let's see: posting a link and either lying about the contents or twisting them into a pretzel or chopping them up like so much parsley -all in the hope that no one actually reads the material and catches you in a lie.

So you still feel making shit up allows you to dodge this inconvenient fact: the same post where you claim I denied the existence of testimony from the medical examiners is the same post where I said the following:

"What's new are these Army physicians moonlighting as a CSIs drawing their own conclusions about how the shooting went down."

You're free to whine, of course, but in the end your bluster is belied by the facts. Deal with it.

Dropped the Fork already? I guess you had to in a feeble effort to bullshit your way out of your latest lie. Please post the section in which I "denied the existence of testimony from the medical examiners ". I did no such thing, you lying cocksucker.

[Elfdart]

By the way those bad math majors still making fun of your no-math or weak math coding monkey ass?

You brought this up before. What math majors?

The ones who tried to teach you that you could count to eleven without leaving your fly open, moron.

Or ten and a quarter in your case.

[metavac]

Dropped the Fork already?

Nah, I stuck it in the shredded remains of your argument.

Please post the section in which I "denied the existence of testimony from the medical examiners ". I did no such thing, you lying cocksucker.

Nobody said you denied the existence of such testimony, you dumb fuck. You did claim that I denied it. And so long as you keep your down low fantasies to yourself, feel free to dream about my schlong all you like, cocksucker. Ya'done.

[Keevan_Colton]

The title "Medical Examiner" is, I believe, used to describe someone whose primary job is forensic pathology. In the USA, a Medical Examiner is frequently called a Coroner.

Many jurisdictions have a coroner or their equivalent. Medical examiner is a frequent alternative title in the United States; however, unlike a coroner, a medical examiner must be a licensed pathologist.

That means examining a dead body to determine cause of death for death certificates.

That's absolutely correct.

You'll also find that in some areas there are things known as Coroners Courts, which convene to investigate the circumstances surrounding a death.

[Flagg]

Hey fukctard, those "Army Physicians" are medical examiners. You know what a medical examiner routinely does, right? They investigate murders. Moron.

Yo, dumbass. Name one medical examiner that does.

Dr. Michael Baden, you dumb cunt. Oh, but I know your playbook so you're going to claim that ME's don't "investigate murders", they simply make determinations on whether a murder occurred. Well, consider this a preemptive concession, brainboy. Now explain why an Army Medical Examiner is unqualified in determining if a murder occured using their knowledge of the human body and projectiles.

While you're at it, name one medical examiner that's not a physician.

How about you chug my cock you dishonest little dipshit? You used the term "army physicians" as a derogatory suggesting they have no ability to determine whether or not a murder has occurred. Now show how a crime scene investigator is more qualified than a medical examiner in determining whether or not a murder has occured based on the analysis of a victims corpse.

[metavac]

Dr. Michael Baden, you dumb cunt. Oh, but I know your playbook so you're going to claim that ME's don't "investigate murders", they simply make determinations on whether a murder occurred.

They don't even make that determination. MEs decide whether or not deaths were the result of homicide or other causes. They are not responsible for investigating any element of a criminal act. Your concession's accepted, jackass.

Now explain why an Army Medical Examiner is unqualified in determining if a murder occured using their knowledge of the human body and projectiles.

Who said they know ballistics? Why would you even think that ballistics is in their area of expertise? They're frigging pathologists, dumbass.

How about you chug my cock you dishonest little dipshit? You used the term "army physicians" as a derogatory suggesting they have no ability to determine whether or not a murder has occurred.

"Army physician" is derogatory now? And since when did I say that the examiner has no role in determining whether a murder occurred or not? Determining a death to be a homicide (a simple matter in this case, since the cause of death were fucking bullet woiunds, moron) is a necessary stop for the criminal investigation to move forward. Stop cowering behind strawmen and address what's been written, you dumb, pusillanimous fuck.

Now show how a crime scene investigator is more qualified than a medical examiner in determining whether or not a murder has occured based on the analysis of a victims corpse.

Because it's their fucking job--not an ME's--to investigate the forensic ballistics of a crime scene, moron. How is it the same handful of people--yourself included--sink to new levels of stupidity at roughly the same time in the same threads?

[brianeyci]

If an army examiner has a partial role, then you concede that the opinion of an army examiner can be worthwhile retard. You claimed that the Army examiners wanted to "play CSI", a tone of wording that was clearly derogatory and an implicit claim that examiners have no worthwhile opinion and therefore no worthwhile role. But of course meta-tard doesn't even understand the implications of his own words.

In meta-tard land, conclusions to investigations are declared by fiat, with the lead man the only one who can speak out, the only one with worthwhile things to say. There is a difference between a man having the authority to declare official results in an investigation and a man having the expertise to make comments about an investigation. But of course in meta-facist land, only the top, the leader, should be listened to, his decrees truth. Unsurprising, given your tendency to believe lies from the Bush administration.

[Flagg]

Dr. Michael Baden, you dumb cunt. Oh, but I know your playbook so you're going to claim that ME's don't "investigate murders", they simply make determinations on whether a murder occurred.

They don't even make that determination. MEs decide whether or not deaths were the result of homicide or other causes. They are not responsible for investigating any element of a criminal act. Your concession's accepted, jackass.

The corpse of a murder victim is an element of a criminal act, dipshit. They are able to determine whether a homicide is an accident or intentional murder based on... Wait for it... The autopsy! You know, where they gather physical evidence from inside the body and determine entrance wounds, exit wounds, and the angle of those wounds?

Now explain why an Army Medical Examiner is unqualified in determining if a murder occured using their knowledge of the human body and projectiles.

Who said they know ballistics? Why would you even think that ballistics is in their area of expertise? They're frigging pathologists, dumbass.

Of course they have experience with ballistics, you dumb git. They routinely pull bullets out of corpses and make determinations about the angle upon which those projectiles entered the body. Or is this too complex for you?

How about you chug my cock you dishonest little dipshit? You used the term "army physicians" as a derogatory suggesting they have no ability to determine whether or not a murder has occurred.

"Army physician" is derogatory now? And since when did I say that the examiner has no role in determining whether a murder occurred or not? Determining a death to be a homicide (a simple matter in this case, since the cause of death were fucking bullet woiunds, moron) is a necessary stop for the criminal investigation to move forward. Stop cowering behind strawmen and address what's been written, you dumb, pusillanimous fuck.

Awwwe, the dumb baby can use big words, how cute! You implied that army physicians are unqualified to make any determination on whether something should be investigated as a murder. It goes beyond just "determining whether or not a death is a homicide".

Now show how a crime scene investigator is more qualified than a medical examiner in determining whether or not a murder has occured based on the analysis of a victims corpse.

Because it's their fucking job--not an ME's--to investigate the forensic ballistics of a crime scene, moron. How is it the same handful of people--yourself included--sink to new levels of stupidity at roughly the same time in the same threads?

This coming from the Village Idiot. Keep trying, cunt.