Transporter Reliability Myths

[SirNitram]

Wow.

Did you see that everyone? Subspace communications jamming, which to my knowledge is never mentioned in the episode(If it is, quote please) will not block a Subtrans.

What a fucking pity the Empire can jamm sensors as well, isn't it?

Or did you not think before you spout this nonsense off, Darkling? How are you going to get a transporter lock to send this stuff?

SENSORS

Holy shit, did everyone see that? Do I need it in Point 500 to get it across, Darkling?

An ISD can scan all of subspace in three hours. All. Of. It. You have offered no rebuttals to this when it was presented, so admit the fact.

Even if by some fucking miracle the Subtrans can enter in via different levels than the Imperial ones(ZERO PROOF OF THIS, DARKLING), you cannot scan an ISD from afar because it's shields block subspace sensors. No targetting lock, no transporting into any part of the ISD.

Now shut the fuck up or find a real rebuttal, not speculation or misdirection.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Blocking Subcom doesnt affect Subtrans.

The imps are blocking Subcomm not subtrans - since the two are seperate what affects one doesnt affect the other.

Subcom travels by subspace. Shields would logically block subspace. Subtrans travel by supspace.



And of course simple jamming will stop anyone from scanning the ships and being able to lock on.

[TheDarkling]

SirNitram: I have mentioned the sensor problem several times, I even gave an episode and quotes - please dont make me repeat myself.

No let me take you through the reasoning .

Geordi Is an engineer on the Feds flagship - agreed?
Geordi knows about subspace - actually he knows more than just what applies to ships systems - agreed?
Starfleet knows how to jam comms - agreed?
Thus Geordi knows this - agreed?
Geordi nows of nothing that can stop subtrans - agreed?
Thus sutrans cant be blocked by commms blocking - agreed?

I just want to see where we part ways on this.

Comms blocking is used in DS9s first episode and many more times during ds9 - thus known to starfleet.
Geordi and Data both keep upto date on the tech so would know about this - if it were a knerw developement and the chief seems to understand the tech in DS9 indicating it isnt new tech.

[TheDarkling]

Grand Admiral Thrawn:

First is that it would seemingly be impossible to block all of subspace (and why would they waste power doing this - if you dont understand why read the evidence of the multi doimain nature of sybspace in my previous posts).

Agreed but already discussed.

[SirNitram]

SirNitram: I have mentioned the sensor problem several times, I even gave an episode and quotes - please dont make me repeat myself.

No let me take you through the reasoning .

Geordi Is an engineer on the Feds flagship - agreed?
Geordi knows about subspace - actually he knows more than just what applies to ships systems - agreed?
Starfleet knows how to jam comms - agreed?
Thus Geordi knows this - agreed?
Geordi nows of nothing that can stop subtrans - agreed?
Thus sutrans cant be blocked by commms blocking - agreed?

I just want to see where we part ways on this.

Comms blocking is used in DS9s first episode and many more times during ds9 - thus known to starfleet.
Geordi and Data both keep upto date on the tech so would know about this - if it were a knerw developement and the chief seems to understand the tech in DS9 indicating it isnt new tech.

Well, Concession Accepted on the shields blocking the sensors and thus preventing transporting.


You are, however, engaging in a fallacy. In DS9, they can comm jam. In TNG, they show no signs of being capable. Show me proof they can do it in both. If you have proof it is not new in DS9, present it. If you don't, concede.

And concession accepted on the ISD being able to scan all of subspace.

[TheDarkling]

Well, Concession Accepted on the shields blocking the sensors and thus preventing transporting.

Anyone who has taken the time to read the thread knows that this incorrect.

Thus Concession Accepted on that point since you havent bothered to debate on that point.

You are, however, engaging in a fallacy. In DS9, they can comm jam. In TNG, they show no signs of being capable. Show me proof they can do it in both. If you have proof it is not new in DS9, present it. If you don't, concede.

And at what point did they become seperate universes? oh they didnt thuis what works on one works on the other.

Thus concession accepeted since you accept the fact that it work in DS9 ( and since they are the smae universe by extention TNG due to the fact that the first Episode of DS9 predates this episode of TNG by at least a year and a half).


All of that subspace domain - scanning all of subspace would be useless to a military vessel because most subspace realms have no correlation to real space Ref Schisms.
[/quote]

[Master of Ossus]

SirNitram: As I stated before the SW/ST knowledge of subspace is not relevant and your information proves that SW have a better grasp of subspace comms not of subspace itself.

But you started this by saying that SW ships do not use subspace. Then you moved on and said that SW doesn't know how to use subspace because they don't use it. Now we present you, not only, with examples where we understand something quite well but do not use it, AND with examples of things that SW DOES use subspace for. We have won this small portion of the debate.

The fact is the SW is interested in science for its benefits whereas the ST boys just love science.

Another unsubstantiated claim. In a galaxy of quadrillions of beings, there are probably some people who are interested in science for its own sake (like Qui Xux and Danni Quee). There are also people who use science as a means to develop new technology. Neither approach is better than the other one. I should also point out, that often times people who are researching into finding benefits find NO benefits, and often people who are studying science for its own sake find benefits within their research. Your implication that ST people are better researchers because they like it is crap. Are you seriously proposing that a Federation of a few hundred planets has better research and development capabilities than an Empire spanning a galaxy?

All you have proven is that subspace comms is more advanced in the empire not that it opertes on different principles.

But you started this by saying that the Federation had a better understanding of subspace than the Empire, and thus it "proved" that if the Federation cannot block subspace transporters then the Empire could not, either. Later, you will come back by saying that the Empire may not even understand subspace communication. Are you seriously trying to say that the Empire may not even understand its own technology?

Ok now as I said it isnt relevant onto what is.

We have two questions before us (assuming the imps know of the other subspace realms).

Can the imps block ever subspace realm?
Would/Do the imps block every subspace realm?

This first question is an unknown - the laws of reality alter between each subspace reaml thus having a method to block each one wuold take a huge amoubnt of research and many differing pieces of technology not to mention power.

The laws of reality do not, fundamentally, alter between each realm of subspace. If they did, then your statement that the Federation knows more about subspace because of their subspace transporters becomes bullshit. Are you admitting to lying in the past in order to make an attempt at carrying the debate?

The second question, Do they?
Well heres the thing - why would they?
If comms/sensors only work on one strata why block every other level which are useless as far as the imps know.

I have already answered this question. Comms probably work in lots of different "levels" of subspace. We know that subspace communications can be done in several realms of subspace, including the one that involves subspace transports. Thus, not only is this level NOT useless, but it is also relevent when jamming subspace frequencies. Thus, if the Imperials WERE jamming subspace communications, they should be jamming this level, as well.

So we dont have a reason to do so - lets pretend that they decide to look into doing it anyway.
First off the power requirements to blck near infinite realms for no reason would be prohibitive - why would a warship waste power (yes theres no reason to block the other domains) when that power could go to weapons of shields.

This is just wrong. The power requirements would be insignificant to an Imperator class Star Destroyer. While they MIGHT be significant for a GCS, the power output of an ISD makes this easily manageable. Jamming takes up MUCH less power than transmitting, so it follows that jamming takes up MUCH less power than transporting someone. Since Federation transporters use insignificant amounts of power (they can use transporters during combat situations), we should be able to conclude that transporting people does not take tremendous amounts of power for UFP ships. If transporting takes up small amounts of power for UFP ships, jamming should take up MINISCULE amounts of power for Imperial ships.

We also have the concern of equipment - since physics varies from one domain to another the ship would have to care multiple devices since there isnt a one device fits all - thus taking up space that could be used for weapons, sensors and so on.
This jamming would lead many aliens in the various realms to notice the empire - a distinct disadvantage.

But one device does appear to "fit all." Both the DS and ISDs carry equipment for jamming subspace communications. An ISD is able to jam ALL communications from a planet (including subspace communications) AND bombard the planet in a BDZ operation AT THE SAME TIME. For a BDZ to be successful, there cannot be witnesses to the destruction, and no transmissions from the planet can be made, including ones on unorthodox channels. Thus we SHOULD conclude that Imperator class Star Destroyers carry equipment for jamming subspace communications on ALL frequencies. Many ships carry equipment designed to mask transponder signals, which is amazing because it would require that one alter the transponder code of his own ship--extremely difficult if you don't understand the science behind the original transponder.

To sum up :-
The imps may or may not now of the various subspace domains (its possible the knowledge was lost since it was of no more importance).

But it IS important. The Imperials use subspace for many things, including fields in which they are MUCH more advanced than the Federation.

The imps would have no reason to block the other realms except a better safe than sorry policy.

This "better safe than sorry policy" exists! It MUST exist for BDZs to make sense.

This policy would require huge amounts of research into the various realms of subspace.

Not true.

Jamming these realms may or may not be possible.

True, but unlikely given the preponderance of evidence. I also don't know how you can tell ME this after you seemed oblivious to the fact that physical limitations even exist.

If it can be do the jamming would require huge amounts of power and storage space (wasted for no reason).

Seriously not true, the equipment would take up little space (it may be built in to the ISD's communications array, already), even if it took up a room that space would be insignificant for an Imperator class Star Destroyer, and jamming would take up very little power.

If this went a head it would alert every single being living in all the subspace realms.

OOOHHH... The Imperials are so scared....

So wasting of resources for no combat reasons goes against everything the empire is about - Brute force, they dont bother being customisable like the Feds they simple destroy and hats what their ships are designed for.

That isn't true, either. Their equipment is highly customizable. In many cases, more so than Federation technology. It employs many fail safes (ref. Heir to the Empire (capital ships reference from Bilbringi), Dark Force Rising (Luke's cybernetic hand), YT-series freighters (ALL EU evidence says that they are easily modified), etc.). ISD's can also be used to do research, COLONIZE PLANETS (something that a GCS CANNOT do), and explore. The other thing is that the Imperials sometimes DO waste resources, (When Vader killed Captain Needa, he nobly died for the Empire?) just as people do in ALL sci-fi universes.

Now to answer Master of Ossus.

This should be good...

1.Why must ther be a limit and even if there is the word infinite implies its a huge limit.

It is possible for there to be an infinite number of theoretical levels. This would not mean that there are an infinite number of ACCESSIBLE levels. Let's say that you were tearing subspace and the machine told you to tell it which "honeycomb" you wanted to go to. There can only be so many levels that the machine can access before physical limitations on the machine begin to cause problems. While it may be possible to transmit radiowaves at many different channels, eventually it becomes impossible for us to transmit distinguishable signals due to the limits of our technology. There also have to be PHYSICAL limits, as well. When building a nanobot, one can only create a machine that is so small. After that, the sizes of atoms begin to interfere with the ability of the engineer to create working systems. These physical constants cannot be changed or altered in any way, and while we do not know the mechanisms of subspace, we know that certain physical constants dictate the behavior of everything in the universe. There MUST be limits to the number of subspace "cells" that we can access before it becomes impossible for our hypothetical machine to differentiate between the two and send a signal to determine which realm we want to go to.

2.I assume that the least deep levelshave the closest link to our reality since humans can survive in subspace where warp travel occurs yet in the deep subspace realm weird physics took over and humans couldnt survive there properly.

I thought you were trying to say that ALL realms have different laws? If that was the case, then perhaps the two are just lucky and unlucky realms, but not representative of the whole. In my scenario (the one in which some things must remain constant) there are many explanations for why people are not able to survive. If I were to go down 10,000 feet in a submarine, I would not be able to survive outside my submarine. That does not mean that the laws of physics there are different. If I were to travel to Jupiter, I would not be able to survive, but that does not mean that the laws of gravity are different. This may surprise you, but there are MANY places where humans cannot survive, even if the laws of physics are the same as the ones we have here on Earth (or anywhere in the universe, except black holes and a couple of other STRANGE phenomena).

3.No they did discover subspace tech at least 25,000 years ago - its a canon fact.
No I have not heard of this device - could I have more info, however if it isnt military then Imp ships have no need to block it.

But do you know that the aliens coming BEFORE humans in the SW universe did NOT discover subspace? We're talking about an alien race that could transport BLACK HOLES. These guys were seriously powerful, even by SW standards. How do you know that they did not discover subspace, also? Maybe you should look up this device. If you did, you would know that it was not some sort of magical device that is capable of doing anything. Instead, you would realize that it has limitations just like all other SW technology (or, indeed, like all other technology in general).

4.No it doesnt - I proposed many tactics, the shuttle and the hangar fly by, I simply said that deeper into the war the tactics could be further improved by scanning imps ships.

Deeper into a war that would be over before it began? There would be no TIME for all of this. In the time the Federation took to gather its fleets to defend a location, the planet would already have been conquered. Hyperdrives are MUCH faster than warp drives. I simply do not see how there could be the weeks and months needed by SF to do detailed research into the Empire's methods.

I will call it 5. I guess.

5.Its may be true that subspace can be better used by the imps but that doesnt mean that a ship designer understands all about subspace - he simply understands subspace radio and how to block it and thus he incorperates this into his design, what else does he need?.

I will once again reiterate Subspace comms blocking cant stop Subtrans thus there is no link (at least enough to be useful) between the two.

But can subspace transporters be USED as subspace communicators? Of course! Therefore, such a method of communication would be jammed before a BDZ operation. I should point out that a ship designer might not even understand the subspace radio, but he knows that he needs one on his ship. The subspace radio designer, on the other hand, would probably have a VERY good understanding of how such a system would work. And no, after a point scientific research becomes more than "99% perspiration." After a point, there simply become too many different possibilities to try each of them out. Then you HAVE to have an understanding of the underlying concepts behind your technology in order to create a new system.

BTW, you still have not said why only the "least deep" levels of subspace may be used for communications. You have not explained your assumption that subspace transporters could operate on antimatter. You have not explained why only a few levels of subspace can be used for communications. Indeed, it fully appears as if many or all of them CAN.

[Master of Ossus]

Blocking Subcom doesnt affect Subtrans.

The imps are blocking Subcomm not subtrans - since the two are seperate what affects one doesnt affect the other.

But obviously the same "level" of subspace transporters CAN be used for communication. Therefore, it should be obvious that the Imperials would be jamming subspace transporters, as well.

[SirNitram]

[quote="TheDarkling]

And at what point did they become seperate universes? oh they didnt thuis what works on one works on the other.

Thus concession accepeted since you accept the fact that it work in DS9 ( and since they are the smae universe by extention TNG due to the fact that the first Episode of DS9 predates this episode of TNG by at least a year and a half).


All of that subspace domain - scanning all of subspace would be useless to a military vessel because most subspace realms have no correlation to real space Ref Schisms.
[/quote]

And does the episode where comm jamming is first shown predate this episode, Darkling? Please, prove this. Come on, you can do it, if it exists.

As for 'It can't be scanning all of subspace because.. Uh... It's a lot of stuff and ST doesn't use it therefore no one does!' is nonsense that anyone can see through. The ISD does it. Fucking deal, asscrab.

Sensors are blocked, so they can't transport. You can run and hide and say 'That's tactical I'm not talking about tactical wah wah wah' but it means this does not work, period. Unless you're going to say it's a dead weight ISD with no systems on.

Finally, I remind you that Subtrans are referred to as unreliable compared to normal transporters, and thus will not likely be able to transport through the radiation, heavy metals, and electrical power all present on an ISD... Do I really need to dig up quotes on transporters not being able to go through those phenomenon?

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

Federation started using subtrans when?

[Master of Ossus]

Federation started using subtrans when?

When Darkling said so.

Anyway, Darkling, you haven't yet made SirNitram stop dancing, so unless you can come up with something that will totally refute all of our information and evidence, I think you lose.

Incidentally, DS9 and TNG are in the same UNIVERSE, but not at the same TIME. TNG makes no mention of the Dominion War, for instance, even though the Enterprise D probably saw action in that conflict (being the flagship, and all).

[CNS Sarajevo]

(Somebody might've already made this point, but I'm not going to read 9 pages of posts.)

My interpretation of the movie was that the leak had been going for a while, making the nearby area irradiated, but it wasn't an intense leak. Lily went into the Phoenix's silo during the bombardment and stayed there to protect the ship. IIRC, she was standing around the leak for 20 minutes or more until the Enterprise crew found her.

It wasn't a big leak and transporters can work through LOW-LEVEL radiation.

[Master of Ossus]

(Somebody might've already made this point, but I'm not going to read 9 pages of posts.)

My interpretation of the movie was that the leak had been going for a while, making the nearby area irradiated, but it wasn't an intense leak. Lily went into the Phoenix's silo during the bombardment and stayed there to protect the ship. IIRC, she was standing around the leak for 20 minutes or more until the Enterprise crew found her.

It wasn't a big leak and transporters can work through LOW-LEVEL radiation.

Maybe. Actually, we just kind of ignored the point after a while. Either that, or it was a highly localized phenomena, but in both scenarios it was the exception and not the rule about transporters.

[TheDarkling]

I have never asserted SW ships didnt use subspace - I found that quote ages ago during the first Subtrans thread.

No you missed the point - Imps designers are more geared towards application than pure science, thats a belie and not really relevant to the discussion.

The Feds probably do have a better understanding of subspace but this isnt really relevant since I have since allowed that the imps know about it (I contest this but allow it to go for sake of argument).

The rules of reality do alter in subspace domains im afraid.

I have already answered this question. Comms probably work in lots of different "levels" of subspace. We know that subspace communications can be done in several realms of subspace, including the one that involves subspace transports. Thus, not only is this level NOT useless, but it is also relevent when jamming subspace frequencies. Thus, if the Imperials WERE jamming subspace communications, they should be jamming this level, as well.

Not according to WEG as far as we know subspace comms are a freq only affair in both ST and SW (since we assume they work the same).

This is just wrong. The power requirements would be insignificant to an Imperator class Star Destroyer. While they MIGHT be significant for a GCS, the power output of an ISD makes this easily manageable. Jamming takes up MUCH less power than transmitting, so it follows that jamming takes up MUCH less power than transporting someone. Since Federation transporters use insignificant amounts of power (they can use transporters during combat situations), we should be able to conclude that transporting people does not take tremendous amounts of power for UFP ships. If transporting takes up small amounts of power for UFP ships, jamming should take up MINISCULE amounts of power for Imperial ships.

Thats a statement without evidence - blocking infinite frequencies would take alot of power and I wasnt saying they wouldnt be able to block it if they knew how what im saying is they dont block all of subspace due to power concerns.

But one device does appear to "fit all." Both the DS and ISDs carry equipment for jamming subspace communications. An ISD is able to jam ALL communications from a planet (including subspace communications) AND bombard the planet in a BDZ operation AT THE SAME TIME. For a BDZ to be successful, there cannot be witnesses to the destruction, and no transmissions from the planet can be made, including ones on unorthodox channels. Thus we SHOULD conclude that Imperator class Star Destroyers carry equipment for jamming subspace communications on ALL frequencies. Many ships carry equipment designed to mask transponder signals, which is amazing because it would require that one alter the transponder code of his own ship--extremely difficult if you don't understand the science behind the original transponder.

This quote covers all your comms worries - since the laws of physics are different for each domain means that the equipment couldnt cover everything, many different types of jamming would be needed.

The BDZ has a reason to block comms it isnt wasting huge amouts or power for no reason.

The imps are going about with the aim of having maxium fire power - they are war ships after all, blocking everything would take huge power - in fact just blocking cap ship sensors well takes a jamming ship Ref ROTJ book.

Geordi was talking about which levels the aliens could be in and hge had no way to narrow it down thus accesible levels must be high, Im not saying the subtrans uses them all but Im saying the Imps cant block them all - which you indicate that no machine can.

We are told the physics is different nio the different realms.

But do you know that the aliens coming BEFORE humans in the SW universe did NOT discover subspace? We're talking about an alien race that could transport BLACK HOLES. These guys were seriously powerful, even by SW standards. How do you know that they did not discover subspace, also? Maybe you should look up this device. If you did, you would know that it was not some sort of magical device that is capable of doing anything. Instead, you would realize that it has limitations just like all other SW technology (or, indeed, like all other technology in general).

Im not sure of your point - yes this alien race could have been very powerful what of it?

Once again this isnt about tactics and I have said this many times yet you ersist to discuss them.

No evidence of a subtrans being used as a subspace comms unit would work at all and the star wars BDZ blocks all comms channels but if the imps out anyone else doesnt use it as a comms channel then it isnt classified as a commms channel.

The least deep as you point it are the levels closest to out own and have the best link to real space.
Anti matter can be beamed its been down some whats the problem there.
All subspace realms cant be used for subspace due to the differences in physics and why use them all if one will work? - extra power et al ect.

If I missed anything please post specific questions it was rather large and im rushing.

[TheDarkling]

Grand Admiral Thrawn: I am arguing that they would work not that they would be used.

SirNitram: Again blind transporting has been done Descent Part 1.

The first episode of DS9 takes place before Season 7 TNG - go to startrek.com and check if you dont believe me.

We are told subspace is infinite and not all of it can easily access are realm if at all thus using these realms as scanners for convetional space would be useless.

I have moved this point wrong again and again - Blind transporting is possible.

Those things you mention - Em is a sensor problem as is most radiation (which would most likely be shielded anyway) and Subtrans has less interaction with normal space - thus shields dont work.

As for the hull - provide me with density and Hull thickness and I can work out if it would block them.

[SirNitram]

Hull is Neutronium-impregnated, much like the Iconian structures, Thinktank ship and Doomsday machine.

Radiation, particularly ions, will be in massive quantities out the back of a SD.

Now, I ask again. Was the DS9 episode that first featured jamming before or after the Subtrans episode? Answer or concede.

As for your usual defense.. 'Subspace is too big! no! You can't scan it all!', maybe you should re-read the quote I provided. It scans all of subspace. Mostly for communications and sensor readouts. But it happens. You can't disprove it, so stop trying.

Sensor problems? What, because it's not intrinsic to the Subtrans it doesn't count? Hint for you, Darkling, you can't use it if you can't get a sensor image of what you see.

Descent featured blind transporting? So they couldn't see -anything- of the surface? Or just they couldn't get a very good lock?

Again: SW SHIELDS BLOCK SUBSPACE. Deal with it.

[SirNitram]

Hull is Neutronium-impregnated, much like the Iconian structures, Thinktank ship and Doomsday machine.

Radiation, particularly ions, will be in massive quantities out the back of a SD.

Now, I ask again. Was the DS9 episode that first featured jamming before or after the Subtrans episode? Answer or concede.

As for your usual defense.. 'Subspace is too big! no! You can't scan it all!', maybe you should re-read the quote I provided. It scans all of subspace. Mostly for communications and sensor readouts. But it happens. You can't disprove it, so stop trying.

Sensor problems? What, because it's not intrinsic to the Subtrans it doesn't count? Hint for you, Darkling, you can't use it if you can't get a sensor image of what you see.

Descent featured blind transporting? So they couldn't see -anything- of the surface? Or just they couldn't get a very good lock?

Again: SW SHIELDS BLOCK SUBSPACE. Deal with it.

[SirNitram]

Fucking doublepost and no erase option.

[TheDarkling]

The exact quote is "the entire subspace DOMAIN" one DOMAIN not domains and it references freqs only not Domain level.

Scanning all subspace domains would be pointless for combat purposes anyway.

Yes the DS9 episode was before the TNG episode.

They couldnt tell if anyone was on the surface due to EM interference which has blocked sensors before - the answer is blind transporting is possible but you could end up in a wall.

SW shields block Subspace comms - I have proven theres no link between that and Subtrans.

[TheDarkling]

Oh yes and normal transporters work with the think tank ship, If I recall correctly.

[Howedar]

In the Voyager era, perhaps. In TNG neutronium seems to block everything.

[TheDarkling]

Howedar: true it may just be levels of neutronium in he hull.

[Spanky The Dolphin]

"The entire subspace domain" means ALL of subspace, you doorknob. And "all" means EVERYTHING. The fact that you can't understand this is baffling to us. That's not the way physics work.

Since when has ST refered to subspace in domains and then frequencies? And I'm asking for something like "subspace domain 26, 6782GHz." or whatever units SF uses.

The exact quote is "the entire subspace DOMAIN" one DOMAIN not domains and it references freqs only not Domain level.

If you're going to resort to crap like that, you should just quit now and stop running in circles.

[TheDarkling]

Subspace is split up into domains however when someone referes to subspace they mean the lowest subspace level - wher subspace comms go on.

Scanning all of subspace just aint possible with one scanner and why wuld the Imps do this?

That quote meant simply meant Domani as the domain used for subspace comms and yes that quote was low but saying it means ALL of subspace it also twisting it.

It talks about scanning those comms frequencies - its jsut not likely that comms can travel through all subspace domains since they have differing laws of physics.

To claims ALL means all of subspace instead of just the entire comms range is twisting that quote.

Its split up into domains just accept it.

However this doesnt matter the fact is Subcomms dont relate to Subtrans - what blocks one doesnt affect the other meaning shields that block subspace comms and subspace comm jammers dont affect it.

You keep saying it isnt split up into domains when it is since I have a quote to prove it.

Prehaps subspace in SW isnt the same thing as in ST thus one has domains and one doesnt.

[SPOOFE]

TheDarkling, I note that you ignored my post. You have yet to satisfy the criteria for presenting evidence, to wit:

-You still need to show, conclusively, that subspace transporters are NOT affected by jamming (good luck).

-You still need to show that the Imperials cannot produce subspace jamming (again, good luck).

So far, we have our two pieces of evidence - that I mentioned earlier - that give us a rational reason to doubt the effectiveness of subspace transporters. That is all we need to do... create a reasonable doubt, and it is unusable as a debating tactic. YOU still need to prove, conclusively, that it WILL work.

So far, you have conjecture - "Geordi hinted that subspace MAY possibly have OTHER domains that the Imperials DON'T know about" is not conclusive - which makes your theory unusable as a debating tool.