Agent Smith vs Mace Windu

[2000AD]

A little thing. According to the book I, Jedi a lightsabre blade is 133cm (1.33m) long.

Also (tangent. Ignore if you want)

or like Jedi Master Nejaa Halcyon, simply pick him up, and crush his ribcage on his internal organs w/ the Force.

The halcyon family is notoriusly (sp) weak in the power of TK. Neeja only did this after his opponent had stabbed him with his lightsabre, Neeja then used on of the Halcyon strenghts and absorbed the energy from the lightsabre, using that energy to boost his TK before he died.

[Darth Wong]

Which means at most they had perhaps 0.3 seconds at most, although rotor speeds vary and I don't know the specs on that aircraft. Since no Jedi has ever done a force-push that quickly, your point is beaten.

0.3 seconds? The sequence between the chopper showing up and Neo opening fire took only 1.5 seconds of screen time? I'll have to watch that again.

Even if it's accurate, a Jedi reacts to danger before he sees it, and would Force-push Neo as soon as he sees him. Moreover, even if we use your scaling, he can cover around 3 metres from a standing start in that time while Agent Smith just stood there looking stupid. So actually, your point is beaten. Again.

So then we can both agree that from frame 0 to frame 5 they moved only about 2.2 meters.

Frame 1 to frame 5, actually. Frame 0 was simply put in as a reference, since I figured people would react oddly if I started at a frame where they appear to be invisible. And please, explain this:

Notice how, with two frames interlaced upon each other, you can clearly see that Obi-Wan moves roughly one sabre-length, ie- 1 metre, in just one frame. Qui-Gon is a little slower, but the man is in his fifties! Try as you might, you cannot explain this. Instead, you:

A) ignore my point about going from frame 1, not frame 0.
B) nitpick my speculation about arm movement with much more long-winded counter-speculation about arm movement, in an obvious attempt to distract from the photographic evidence that disproves your whole argument.
C) completely ignore my point about acceleration; in your world, a fit human being can apparently accelerate from 0 to 30 mph in 0.04 seconds.

I like the way you refused to address the point about acceleration anywhere in your "rebuttal". You obviously can't answer, but you are obviously too prideful to admit defeat, so you simply ignore the offending point and try to paint up over the disaster as best you can.

Doesn't wash, for your claims to be true this would indicate that from frame 3 to frame 5 they somehow only covered .1 meters despite covering a meter per frame earlier.

Frame 3 and 5 overlaid:

0.1 metres, eh? Interesting scaling. Since we can clearly see Qui-Gon's sabre move roughly 30 pixels to the right, and
Qui-Gon is about 90 pixels tall, this means he moves roughly 1/3 of his height in that sequence, ie- around 0.65 metres. This makes it seem as if Obi-Wan has slowed down dramatically, which is undoubtedly why you carefully chose this frame. But look at frames four to six, which I should have included earlier if I'd realized what a weaselly little twerp you'd be:



Hey, where's Obi? He's gone! He's almost completely out of frame, with only the shadow of his cloak left behind.

What's your explanation for that, or for the earlier shot of him covering 1 m/frame? The most obvious explanation is simply that frame 5 has slightly uneven timing, hence the apparently slow movement before and the sudden huge movement after (right out of the damned frame, well over 1 metre per frame). This is not unheard-of, and that's one of the reasons that your careful selection of frames is a dangerous thing; you hang your hat on analyzing only the velocity between a carefully picked pair of frames and ignoring the general pattern of the scene.

You would have us believe that somehow the Jedi covered 2 meters in rougly 1/10th seconds and then only .2 meters in the next tenth.

Your scaling is wrong, and your methods non-objective. I have presented two consecutive frames which show movement of 1 metre in 0.04 seconds. It is impossible to make that movement unless they were travelling at the requisite velocity; do you understand this? If they slowed down later, that does not change this fact. The fact that continuation of the sequence confounds your analysis is a good indicator of how poor that analysis is.

This means that at first they travelled at your absurdly expanded rate of 68mph, then immediately slowed down to about 6mph, the speed of an average human walking. Simple inertia would have made them cover more distance even if they had stopped running altogether, and it's absurd to think they decided to force-decelerate themselves and slow back down at that point.

Simple inertia makes it impossible for them to accelerate from a standing start to that velocity that quickly in the first place, idiot! The fact that they can do it means that we can hardly rule out a quick deceleration.

The only reasonable explanation for the absurd variance in speeds in the set of frames is that Obi-Wan swung his arm forward as he started moving, adding his torso and hand momentum together and producing a far higher figure than his body was really moving.

Right, but his lightsabre was still angled in exactly the same orientation And how do you explain frame six, in which his whole fucking body is out of the frame except for the tail of his cloak? More magic?

Slightly uneven timing explains it. Even an absurd accel/decel curve explains it (if they can accelerate that fast, maybe they can decelerate that fast). But simply acting as though the earlier frames didn't happen (ie- your preferred explanation) is absurd and unreasonable.

Ah? And where have I said that your crude language invalidates your statments? I simply haven't let you replace proof with profanity as you want to.

More strawwman fallacies; where have I ever attempted to replace proof with profanity? You asked that I prove that which everyone else could see (shifting the burden of proof; he who denies what everyone else sees bears the burden). I ignored this obvious fallacy and provided that proof: it is impossible for a man to accelerate to 30 mph in 0.04 seconds, never mind the more accurate velocity of 60 mph.

You said you would gladly concede if evidence was provided. You did not. You tried to diminish the scaling by carefully selecting frames, and you simply ignored the need for acceleration from 0 to top speed, as if a normal human can actually accelerate from 0 to his top running speed in a few hundredths of a second. You may whine, and bitch, and play sanctimonious games in order to pretend you're better than me, but in the end, you've only shown yourself to be a liar, pure and simple. Even if you were 100% correct about the scaling and frame six didn't exist, it would still be impossible for a human being to perform that acceleration. In short,

YOU COMPLETELY IGNORED MY POINT ABOUT ACCELERATING FROM A STANDING START TO FULL SPEED IN 0.04 SECONDS. CONCESSION ACCEPTED, FUCKTARD.

I haven't even suggested you shouldn't swear, I've merely repeatedly asked for you to prove your points, which of course you have responded to by swearing at me.

You forgot the part where I did produce loads of evidence, to which you responded with asinine nitpicking, ignorance of the concept of acceleration (what; do you think it's normal to go from standing start to full gallop in 0.04 seconds?) and an obvious refusal to admit defeat in order to save face. Pathetic. Your concluding strawman accusation that I use swearing to cover for a lack of evidence is even more pathetic in light of the fact that I have been providing 100% of the evidence in this debate, while you have provided nothing.

[Darth Wong]

i just have one thing to point out, now i havent read all of this yet, i think i will, but from what i see so far, is what always happens, you people get so bent on your side of the arguement that the arguement loses its seriousness, we dont need to fight about this, and if your proven wrong, just accept it, feel enlightend or something, you dont need to drag out your wrong points when we could discuse something better.

Moonstone Spider challenged me to provide evidence. I called his bluff. Now he's just trying to save face with bullshit; notice how he carefully sliced out the parts of my post involving the dreaded word "acceleration" in his rebuttal, sinec he knows that part of the argument is basically invincible; no human can accelerate from standing start to top running in 0.04 seconds. He knows he's beaten, but he just won't admit it.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

*Cues Imperial March*

*Points at MoonStone, laughs* And so the mighty have fallen!

[Durandal]

*Cues Imperial March*

*Points at MoonStone, laughs* And so the mighty have fallen!

He was mighty?

[DPDarkPrimus]

Mighty stupid.

[Illuminatus Primus]

A little thing. According to the book I, Jedi a lightsabre blade is 133cm (1.33m) long.

Also (tangent. Ignore if you want)

or like Jedi Master Nejaa Halcyon, simply pick him up, and crush his ribcage on his internal organs w/ the Force.

The halcyon family is notoriusly (sp) weak in the power of TK. Neeja only did this after his opponent had stabbed him with his lightsabre, Neeja then used on of the Halcyon strenghts and absorbed the energy from the lightsabre, using that energy to boost his TK before he died.

Exactly my point--he pulled off a TK insta-kill feat w/ bad TK while he couldn't see his target and was in extreme pain from a mortal wound. Oh....and by the way Windu is a lot more skilled and has no TK problem or needing to use syphoned energy,

[Darth Wong]

*Dead thread resurrected because Connor MacLeod requested info on Jedi speed capabilities*