Apple TV's Foundation

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Apple TV's Foundation

Post by FaxModem1 »



I personally rolled my eyes at the "Apple is the company of the future" line. But this could be good. I don't really know where they're going to take this.
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by Adam Reynolds »

FaxModem1 wrote: 2020-07-13 03:37am

I personally rolled my eyes at the "Apple is the company of the future" line. But this could be good. I don't really know where they're going to take this.
I found it amusing that the Youtube comments originally were discussing the same thing, that Apple would more likely be a villain in Asimov stories, before Apple turned them off.
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by Zaune »

What I want to know is, how are they going to deal with the fact that the concept of Psychohistory has aged like milk?
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by bilateralrope »

Zaune wrote: 2020-11-24 02:42pm What I want to know is, how are they going to deal with the fact that the concept of Psychohistory has aged like milk?
I'm hoping they just play it straight. Have it work in their series exactly like it worked in the novels.

From what I remember about Foundation, psychohistory is too big of a plot device to do much else with if you're wanting to make a faithful adaptation.
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by Gunhead »

Zaune wrote: 2020-11-24 02:42pm What I want to know is, how are they going to deal with the fact that the concept of Psychohistory has aged like milk?
Reveal it's bullshit like they did in the book? They did that right.. it's been ages since I read it and don't have a copy conveniently placed so I could check. I'm not holding my breath on this one, even if it does have Jared Harris in it who is consistently great at anything he does.
Foundation is a book kinda like Dune, I think a scifi aficionado should read it but it's underlying ideas are more interesting than the actual story.

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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

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Gunhead wrote: 2020-11-24 03:01pm
Zaune wrote: 2020-11-24 02:42pm What I want to know is, how are they going to deal with the fact that the concept of Psychohistory has aged like milk?
Reveal it's bullshit like they did in the book? They did that right.. it's been ages since I read it and don't have a copy conveniently placed so I could check. I'm not holding my breath on this one, even if it does have Jared Harris in it who is consistently great at anything he does.
Foundation is a book kinda like Dune, I think a scifi aficionado should read it but it's underlying ideas are more interesting than the actual story.

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Hopefully this.

Psychohistory was always more of a plot device so that Asimov could tell a sci-fi tale of the fall of the Roman Empire and attempts to save it.

That being said, I felt he did a decent job discussing the practicalities of such a scheme and it faults.

IIRC the main conditions of psychohistory were:

The population size had to be sufficiently large
The population must not know the results of the predictions
There must not be a significant and unforeseen change in culture / technology
Individuals' behaviour must overall more or less cancel each other out, so that no individual can single-handily disrupt the results
Human interactions with each other and the environment must fundamentally remain the same

And the final reveal:

that humans are the only sentient intelligence in the galaxy

Unfortunately this last one was never fully explored as Asimov didn't know where to go with it, but was a huge cliff-hanger when I read it the first time.

The first few stories explore what psychohistory is and what it can theoretically do so that the reader understands the idea... while the rest of the series essentially deconstructs the whole thing, with each of the above conditions being eventually broken (the last one being heavily implied, hence the cliff hanger).

It's made pretty clear by the end that psychohistory and Seldon's plan would never work without constant intervention (of the mind-controlling kind where people's behaviour can be literally forced into following it). And even then it's not a desirable outcome.
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

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I find it 'very' hard to mesh that with the Foundation storyline as actually written, especially the apparent time travel bit at the beginning
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by Marikina »

Batman wrote: 2021-06-28 08:02pm I find it 'very' hard to mesh that with the Foundation storyline as actually written, especially the apparent time travel bit at the beginning
What do you mean by that last bit?
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

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A very much grown up Seldon watching his own birth?
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by Marikina »

Batman wrote: 2021-06-28 09:10pm A very much grown up Seldon watching his own birth?
That wasn't Seldon, that was Brother Dusk. In this adaptation the ruling body of the Empire is comprised of clones of the original Emperor Cleon.
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by Batman »

'Strange. Watching yourself being born' is hard to interpret any OTHER way.
And assuming your information is correct it is curiously absent from the trailer so people watching the trailer wouldn't KNOW that
'Next time I let Superman take charge, just hit me. Real hard.'
'You're a princess from a society of immortal warriors. I'm a rich kid with issues. Lots of issues.'
'No. No dating for the Batman. It might cut into your brooding time.'
'Tactically we have multiple objectives. So we need to split into teams.'-'Dibs on the Amazon!'
'Hey, we both have a Martian's phone number on our speed dial. I think I deserve the benefit of the doubt.'
'You know, for a guy with like 50 different kinds of vision, you sure are blind.'
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

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Batman wrote: 2021-06-28 09:43pm 'Strange. Watching yourself being born' is hard to interpret any OTHER way.
And assuming your information is correct it is curiously absent from the trailer so people watching the trailer wouldn't KNOW that
I don't see what's confusing. Immediately after Dusk says he's watching his youngest self, we flash through all of the clones from infancy to oldest incarnation (Dusk), and later Brother Day proclaims that their genetic dynasty has ruled the Empire for centuries.
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by bilateralrope »

Batman wrote: 2021-06-28 09:43pm 'Strange. Watching yourself being born' is hard to interpret any OTHER way.
And assuming your information is correct it is curiously absent from the trailer so people watching the trailer wouldn't KNOW that
I don't remember much about the Foundation novels. But babies in tubes shouts cloning vats to me and the talk of genetic dynasty reinforces that.

The only question I'm left with is if " Watching yourself being born'" refers to some form of memory transfer or just a different perspective on how they view clones.
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by Zaune »

That sounds more Dune than Foundation to me.
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
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Replace "ginger" with "n*gger," and suddenly it become a lot less funny, doesn't it?
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by Tribble »

bilateralrope wrote: 2021-06-29 12:24am
Batman wrote: 2021-06-28 09:43pm 'Strange. Watching yourself being born' is hard to interpret any OTHER way.
And assuming your information is correct it is curiously absent from the trailer so people watching the trailer wouldn't KNOW that
I don't remember much about the Foundation novels. But babies in tubes shouts cloning vats to me and the talk of genetic dynasty reinforces that.

The only question I'm left with is if " Watching yourself being born'" refers to some form of memory transfer or just a different perspective on how they view clones.
And after Seldon realizes that he cannot convince the Trantorian Council that the planet is doomed, he helps conceive the first freeborn infant on the planet in centuries, steals the Codex, puts them both in a pod and sends them to a faraway planet with a yellow sun in order to be the Foundation for a new Empire.

Meanwhile the Emperor declares that HE! WILL! FIND! THEM! and starts searching for Terminus.
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Re: Apple TV's Foundation

Post by Tribble »

*sigh*

Cleon was actually very supportive of Seldon’s work and did his best to help him succeed. And while not being particularly smart or capable he did genuinely want the Empire to do well under his reign.

His unexpected and preventable murder by someone seemingly unimportant not only accelerated the fall but also drove home to Seldon the limits of his work and the need to have a backup / corrective force to keep things on track.

But here he’s just… a clone dynasty trying to cling onto power, by the looks of it?
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