[Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
Re: [Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
As is probably obvious, I'm pretty pessmistic about most of those voting on the issue even having read these threads, let alone considering the discussion. I think it's far too early for such a vote; ideas have been floated and people are thinking about the issue, but there's certainly no reason to expect any of them have sunk in.
Honestly, the Senate voting to dissolve itself, even after considering the discussion was completed with it was determined it was largely useless, would be an expression of maturity I would never expect from the internet.
Honestly, the Senate voting to dissolve itself, even after considering the discussion was completed with it was determined it was largely useless, would be an expression of maturity I would never expect from the internet.
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Re: [Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
Look, to make this reverse psychology thing work, you have to sweeten it by offering to eat some item of headgear if you are proven wrong.Stark wrote:Honestly, the Senate voting to dissolve itself, even after considering the discussion was completed with it was determined it was largely useless, would be an expression of maturity I would never expect from the internet.
Re: [Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
Well, it's probably not going to happen. As Wilkens pointed out you may not even be allowed to do it, but even if it were allowed (Duchess' initial response is probably only the tip of a much larger, silent, iceberg) there are people personally invested in their Senatorial status who will never vote to eliminate their "elite*" status.Stark wrote:Honestly, the Senate voting to dissolve itself, even after considering the discussion was completed with it was determined it was largely useless, would be an expression of maturity I would never expect from the internet.
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Re: [Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
Honestly, I don't think most Senators really care.
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Re: [Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
No, but there is input from users who, to be honest, are part of the problem rather than the solution. They may not consider their input "spam", but that doesn't mean it is desirable.Starglider wrote:Restricting membership of the Senate serves three possible functions. It used to restrict who can discuss board issues. This was already dubious (to the point of serious discussion being forced to Testing) before the HoC was created, and it is completely worthless now. As various senators have recognised, discussion here works at least as well as in the Senate. There is no tidal wave of spam.
This function would still be served if people were rotated out of the Senate. The problem is that such rotation would be viewed as some kind of assault or heinous insult upon the person in question. I have been meaning to try to make modifications to the board software to bring back some of the badges and perks, but I keep forgetting. My personal to-do list is long and varied, and it's just too easy for this particular item to keep sliding off the bottom.So the first purpose is pointless. The second possible purpose is recognising good debaters. The Senate used to be ok for that with the badge and the editing and the regular additions. Now that there are no perks, no recognition and no new admissions, it is utterly worthless in this role.
This is actually something I've been meaning to bring up with the mods, but which I haven't had time to lately. Far too many of them are acting more and more unilaterally (perhaps in inverse proportion to my presence on the board, since I have always taken a dim view of that behaviour).The only remaining purpose is to restrict who can vote on punishment threads. This is currently irrelevant because the mods aren't paying attention to the Senate, and >95% of mod action occurs without a senate vote. However I agree that in principle having votes is a good idea, and that in principle we might want to limit who can vote rather more strictly than who can discuss.
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"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
Re: [Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
I think that's a pretty clear statement of intent.
With regard to the board software stuff, is it a matter of finding the time to change options, or would someone changing the code help?
With regard to the board software stuff, is it a matter of finding the time to change options, or would someone changing the code help?
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Re: [Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
Then why not nuke the whole thing and start over? The original concept of the Senate was as some sort of reward, and when the reward is taken away, people feel miffed, even if the reward itself was more work and an illusion of status.Darth Wong wrote:This function would still be served if people were rotated out of the Senate. The problem is that such rotation would be viewed as some kind of assault or heinous insult upon the person in question.
Moreover, if it is something that's designed to keep the board running smoothly, or at least make some aspect easier or less of a hassle, then those in the role should be actively attempting to perform to the best of their abilities and not just dead weight, granted however that it is an unpaid position.
At the end of the day, I'm not going to shed tears over anyone in the Senate who is upset at the loss of their position. If tomorrow I was removed from the Senate, oh well. I'd still likely be as active as I was before, and I'd probably still make whatever suggestions I had heard, as I did before I was a Senator in the first place. So long as the Senate exists, however, and so long as I am part of it, I will do what I can to make suggestions for what I feel would best help this board run smoothly. That is, as far as I'm concerned, my duty as a Senator, even if I think right now that abolishing the Senate is better for the board in the long run.
Of course, hey, I could be wrong. That's why I wanted to have this discussion. If there's a real reason to keep the Senate around, I do want to hear it, and if we are supposed to be the Judge and Jury to the Supermod and Admin Executioners, so be it, that's what the Senate is.
If you give someone the ability to ban, they're generally going to use it as they see fit unless otherwise instructed. So far, I really haven't seen much of a problem there. Frankly I prefer quicker ban triggers, and banning from serious offenses (taunting/baiting the staff, etc.) seems to be the primary reason for banning. So be it. The nature of the board has already self-selected out the worst examples of spammers, trolls, and idiots. All that really remains are a few wandering time bombs that we can't select out until they go off and a bonafide invasion, which itself requires no Senate action for a response.This is actually something I've been meaning to bring up with the mods, but which I haven't had time to lately. Far too many of them are acting more and more unilaterally (perhaps in inverse proportion to my presence on the board, since I have always taken a dim view of that behaviour).
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Re: [Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
Thank you for weighing in Mike. If you would like any assistance with;
I am now more available after a long period of being too busy.Darth Wong wrote:I have been meaning to try to make modifications to the board software to bring back some of the badges and perks, but I keep forgetting.
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Re: [Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
Well, the board is mostly stock now (the version 3 software is much more robust and secure than the old version 2 software and it includes things like the CAPTCHA and multiple login-attempt lockout out of the box, so a lot less modding was required), so if there was a mod to create a badge and a hard-coded edit permission for one particular group which worked with the stock phpbb3 software, I should be able to install it with little or no complications.Starglider wrote:Thank you for weighing in Mike. If you would like any assistance with;
I am now more available after a long period of being too busy.Darth Wong wrote:I have been meaning to try to make modifications to the board software to bring back some of the badges and perks, but I keep forgetting.
"It's not evil for God to do it. Or for someone to do it at God's command."- Jonathan Boyd on baby-killing
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
"you guys are fascinated with the use of those "rules of logic" to the extent that you don't really want to discussus anything."- GC
"I do not believe Russian Roulette is a stupid act" - Embracer of Darkness
"Viagra commercials appear to save lives" - tharkûn on US health care.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Mike/RantMode/Blurbs.html
Re: [Discussion]Ideal Size Of The Senate
Have you tried putting those permissions into the Senate usergroup (custom title and all that), and then changing the Senator's into have that as their default group? Because that's how supermods got their green names and Governor tags (the ones who don't still have Registered Users as the default).Darth Wong wrote:Well, the board is mostly stock now (the version 3 software is much more robust and secure than the old version 2 software and it includes things like the CAPTCHA and multiple login-attempt lockout out of the box, so a lot less modding was required), so if there was a mod to create a badge and a hard-coded edit permission for one particular group which worked with the stock phpbb3 software, I should be able to install it with little or no complications.Starglider wrote:Thank you for weighing in Mike. If you would like any assistance with;
I am now more available after a long period of being too busy.Darth Wong wrote:I have been meaning to try to make modifications to the board software to bring back some of the badges and perks, but I keep forgetting.
I know it's an option for usergroups, because I've seen it. But I don't know if it works with 'regular' usergroups (Global Mods and Admins are 'special' groups) because I figured I'd get in trouble if I made it somebody's default. Mainly because I have no way to change it back, and also because I don't know that I'm allowed to anyway.
EDIT: Actually, maybe not. Lagmonster and Alyeska have green names but no tag, and Durandal, Stravo, Zaia and Master of Ossus have tags but no green names. So that blows my theory out of the water.
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And we risk all that is pure..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, Forever (Rome: Total War)
"On and on, through the years,
The war continues on..." - Angela & Jeff van Dyck, We Are All One (Medieval 2: Total War)
"Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important than fear." - Ambrose Redmoon
"You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain." - Harvey Dent, The Dark Knight