D-day force sub

[wautd]

The Germans defending the beaches are replaced by hardened soldiers from the Great War, used to years of trench warfare. What happens?

[Stormbringer]

The Germans defending the beaches are replaced by hardened soldiers from the Great War, used to years of trench warfare. What happens?

Not much different. If anything they have a lot better chance of fucking it up. The difference of thirty years or so of quick advances are going to leave them well behind.

They'll be tough, but so were the men assigned there already.

[Exmoor Cat]

They weren't that tough just spirited and well dug-in, most of the forward units were Ukrainians and R&R battalions. The only really tough stuff were over facing the British in the form of 21st SS Panzer (and a significant wory for the planners), and the 84th Mechanised, lurking in reserve behind Utah beach.

[Zoink]

If they haven't seen tanks yet, then they run for their life saying:

"Wir werden durch riesige Metalldrachen angegriffen! Laufen Sie für Ihre Leben!"

... or at least that's what Babelfish says they'll be saying, lol.

[Trytostaydead]

The Germans defending the beaches are replaced by hardened soldiers from the Great War, used to years of trench warfare. What happens?

Outside of tanks, and automatic weapons? I think hand to hand they would've been more brutal of an enemy once in the trenches. Though I'd think they'd have to be trained to deal with the newer weapons.

[Sharpshooter]

It probably wouldn't make a fairly substantial difference: a good deal of what had made D-Day a success had been that Hitler had ordered forced to be deployed to an area further up north from where the Allies struc, thanks to a clever ruse they had put into play month before. The substitution of troops from thirty years before would probably just cause a lessening and increasing of Allied and Axis forces respectively, since they might be mentally unprepared for the new weaponry developed and deployed since their days. Even if they got a crash-course of modern arms before the invasion, the sight of these tanks rolling up the beaches and crashing through everything in their paths might cause them to just bug out and go into a retreat.

I think that's what the History channel said on a program I was watching a while back...

[Sea Skimmer]

German troops from WW2 have inferior weapons and equipment at every level even if we ignore the tanks issue, and being used to being shelled will be no advantage, because it wasn't an issue for the historical German forces either. The invasion goes even more in the Allies favor. Indeed, it might go heavily in the Allies favor because depending on the year of WW1 the Germans would emphasis making immediate counter attacks to restore lost territory. That will play right into the hands of Allied firepower, by bringing the Germans out of there fixed defenses and into the open in which they can easily be killed.

[Exmoor Cat]

SS - surely only on the beaches >looks at the maps< AFAIK there were no really organised defences inland (apart from the flooded areas at the base of the Cotentin peninsula).

This is wandering into the popular debate of what would have happened if Rommel had pushed forward his penny-packet idea for the panzers in suport of infantry defence, instead of the grand sweep idea that prevailed.

[Sea Skimmer]

SS - surely only on the beaches >looks at the maps< AFAIK there were no really organised defences inland (apart from the flooded areas at the base of the Cotentin peninsula).

Indeed that was the case, the Germans did not have anything like the troops and material needed just to defend the beaches, let alone also build and man inland defenses. Since the Allies, once ashore in strength, would be near unbeatable, Rommel gave the shoreline all available resources and limited inland defenses to efforts to deny the allies suitable landing fields for airborne forces

This is wandering into the popular debate of what would have happened if Rommel had pushed forward his penny-packet idea for the panzers in suport of infantry defence, instead of the grand sweep idea that prevailed.

Such a move might have defeated the Omaha landing, but done little more then that, naval gunfire does bad things to tanks, and even a 5 inch shell will knock almost any Panzer, that's not the case with even relatively weak bunkers. However there simply weren't enough Panzers to cover everything, and if they'd been pushed far forward the vast majority would have been in the wrong position, and would then have an even harder time of redeploying to Normandy. What needed to happen were those divisions needed to be spread out better behind the costal defenses, with less emphasis on reinforcing the 15th Army, but while still being far enough inland to avoid being damaged by preliminary bombing or naval gunfire.

[acesand8s]

I assume that the German Great War units (unlike the WW2 Germans) will be equipped with poison gas weapons and will make prolific use of those weapons. How damaging will they be? I can't remember hearing anything about D-Day units being equipped with gas masks. Also, will the close proximity of the ocean hamper the effect of gas weapons?

[Sea Skimmer]

I assume that the German Great War units (unlike the WW2 Germans) will be equipped with poison gas weapons and will make prolific use of those weapons. How damaging will they be? I can't remember hearing anything about D-Day units being equipped with gas masks. Also, will the close proximity of the ocean hamper the effect of gas weapons?

Gas masks where universal issues throughout WW2 in all armies fielded by industrialized nations. Though some like the Russians and Japanese had major shortages. But anyway, everyone who matters at D-day has a gas mask, and in addition to that many of the vital assault engineers who went in ahead of the first waves had full body suits to protect against mustard gas. The Germans didn't have very much artillery to fire gas from but they would likely inflict heavy losses on the opening waves if they did so.

But the problem is that the Allies had vast stocks of gas shells and gas bombs in Britain (and also in Italy and all other theaters of the war) and they have overwhelming air superiority. If the Germans use gas then the Germans will get gassed in return, and in quantities they cannot match. And if the Allies chose to gas bomb German cities (British had much better civilian gas defence measures then the Germans) then it could be all over for them. The British also had an array of biological weapons and radiological weapons ready for use if the Germans used gas.

Basically, German use of gas gives them a limited short-term gain, and catastrophic long-term losses, even if they use their arsenal of nerve gases. You can't win with gas if you can't deliver it to the enemy.

[IRG CommandoJoe]

WWII soldiers replaced with WWI soldiers? That sounds kind of stupid. How about replacing the Germans with Stormtroopers? The panzers are all replaced with AT-STs, all soldiers are equipped with E-11s, all MG emplacements are replaced with E-WEBs, and all artillery (including anti-air) are replaced with light turbolaser turrets. And just for added fun, the two Me-109s that flew over the beach are replaced with a flight of TIE Interceptors.