Zero Dark Thirty
Moderator: Edi
Zero Dark Thirty
I don't give a shit about the movie itself but that fact that the movie exists.
Why is it that I feel... I don't know, awkward about this movie being made when I have enjoyed many war movies based on Vietnam, WWII, WWI and even shows like Generation Kill which are based on a war with Irag that I absolutely objected to.
I am trying to flesh this out in my head and with Jenn and I can't quite articulate my reasoning for wincing when I see the commercials for this movie.
Anyone want to throw their Two Cents at me or have similar feelings?
Actually... have I ever seen a WWI movie?
Why is it that I feel... I don't know, awkward about this movie being made when I have enjoyed many war movies based on Vietnam, WWII, WWI and even shows like Generation Kill which are based on a war with Irag that I absolutely objected to.
I am trying to flesh this out in my head and with Jenn and I can't quite articulate my reasoning for wincing when I see the commercials for this movie.
Anyone want to throw their Two Cents at me or have similar feelings?
Actually... have I ever seen a WWI movie?
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Maybe because its not only in living memory but that the events took place not long ago. Perhaps it is the willful glorification of an assassination?
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
There are interpretations of the ending that suggest the killing still leaves the protagonist empty inside, even after a decade long hunt. That's not my interpretation, mind you, but you know, art is like that.Zwinmar wrote:Maybe because its not only in living memory but that the events took place not long ago. Perhaps it is the willful glorification of an assassination?
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Elaborate. The only thing I know about it is the basic premise so this doesn't follow.Stark wrote:Probably because its so transparent.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Not having seen it, or more importantly having lived it, but why wouldn't they feel that way? They didn't change anything, solve any problem and were basically just a military hit squad. Not that I don't see the need for that to a point.JLTucker wrote:There are interpretations of the ending that suggest the killing still leaves the protagonist empty inside, even after a decade long hunt. That's not my interpretation, mind you, but you know, art is like that.Zwinmar wrote:Maybe because its not only in living memory but that the events took place not long ago. Perhaps it is the willful glorification of an assassination?
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Because you don't exist in a vacuum and you are already thinking 'did they really make a film to justify all the horrible shit my country has done where the emotional climax is shooting an old man in a hole'.Havok wrote:Elaborate. The only thing I know about it is the basic premise so this doesn't follow.Stark wrote:Probably because its so transparent.
Even if you didn't know that the military itself has said 'whoa, that's a really inaccurate way of showing how we found Bin Laden and the utility of torture', you know what the aim of the film is.
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
I'm just going to point out that most of the people crying about how this film tried to validate torture had never seen the film and once they did, seemed to shut up. I haven't seen anyone who's actually seen the movie say that it had the aim you're seeming to give it.Stark wrote:Because you don't exist in a vacuum and you are already thinking 'did they really make a film to justify all the horrible shit my country has done where the emotional climax is shooting an old man in a hole'.Havok wrote:Elaborate. The only thing I know about it is the basic premise so this doesn't follow.Stark wrote:Probably because its so transparent.
Even if you didn't know that the military itself has said 'whoa, that's a really inaccurate way of showing how we found Bin Laden and the utility of torture', you know what the aim of the film is.
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
That isn't actually what I said. I think it's pretty remarkable that an obvious piece of propaganda is so obvious that even the military have said 'whoa, that isn't factually accurate'. It doesn't have to be 'about' justifying torture; it can just be lying about the utility of torture in a way used by the government for years BY ACCIDENT. That doesn't change how hilarious it is.
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
It only validates torture in the sense that it shows America did it. It doesn't connect torture with the capture of Bin laden, like that reactionary fool Glenn Greenwald claimed, prior to seeing it, and fell victim to confirmation bias after he did. The film uses the protagonist as a metaphor for America's eventual numbness to it. I will venture into spoiler territory, so read at your own risk.
Spoiler
Spoiler
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Goddamn, there is totally a word for what it does and I can't remember it.
Regardless, that doesn't change the film. Arguably, by being so bald it will obviously be viewed a certain way by a population inculated and prepped by the whole decade. It would have been pretty easy to say something if that's what they wanted to do.
Regardless, that doesn't change the film. Arguably, by being so bald it will obviously be viewed a certain way by a population inculated and prepped by the whole decade. It would have been pretty easy to say something if that's what they wanted to do.
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
See, it almost wants to say something. In fact, it breaches that area in the final moments.Stark wrote:Regardless, that doesn't change the film. Arguably, by being so bald it will obviously be viewed a certain way by a population inculated and prepped by the whole decade. It would have been pretty easy to say something if that's what they wanted to do.
Spoiler
I think one of my problems stems from the fact that I went into it knowing that the Hurt Locker, the director's previous movie, was staunchly anti-war and shows what it does to people (from an American perspective). I hoped that would come back again in Zero Dark Thirty with perhaps a little more to say about the last decade outside of snippets. I expected too much and that's my fault.
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
For me the it just comes across as another America Fuck Yeah movie, I don't see it as this intense thriller the trailers try to portray. The trailers make it sound like they have to find him or something bad will happen when we know he was reclusive and a paper tiger at that point. The portrayal of the SEAL guys being loud mouth gung ho hunk types doesn't help either. Where every instance you see SEAL guys in real documentaries they are more calm soft spoken intelligent guys with knowledge in multiple areas not just how to lift weights, clean a gun and grow beards. Never saw Hurt Locker so no opinion on the director, other than constant praise on award shows for positive female roles, if that's true or just pandering.
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty
I enjoyed it, especially after the torture shit. That said, the torture shit bothered me. They can try and say it doesn't say torture led to the information that led to his killing, but the very fact that it's featured so explicitely and in large quantities in a movie about killing Bin Laden...
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You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to Shit. Your. Pants!
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He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches.
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty
I find myself agreeing with this and disagreeing with Tucker for the same reasons the author did:
Spoiler
Spoiler
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Thanas, have you seen it? If so, how about an original thought instead of a link to a blog?
Edit: I was rude. Would you mind explaining in your own words what you object to in my critique of this movie? It would be far more efficient in the realm of discussion than to simply post a link to a blog.
Edit: I was rude. Would you mind explaining in your own words what you object to in my critique of this movie? It would be far more efficient in the realm of discussion than to simply post a link to a blog.
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
I wonder if anyone who isn't American would have any interest in seeing it. Those people don't need their niggling doubts about the last decade assuaged and fuck, what's the goddamn word.
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
What word?!
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
Hit it.
Blank Yellow (NSFW)
"Mostly Harmless Nutcase"
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
I've just got a mental blank. There's a really appropriate term for how I see this movie and I literally cannot find it in my brain anymore.
Once I forgot the word 'pretext' for four years. I knew what it was, I just couldn't remember the word. :V
Once I forgot the word 'pretext' for four years. I knew what it was, I just couldn't remember the word. :V
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Everyone I know that's seen it has suddenly expressed doubt about whether the WAR ON TERROR was worth all this human suffering, though.:V
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Didn't all normal people think that before it even started? :v
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty
I would say barely anyone realizes how brutal "enhanced interrogation" is and it sounds like the movie forces you to watch a pretty explicit demonstration. And apparently the wild celebrations directly against the aftermath of the assassination made my mother feel sick to her stomach.
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Yeah. The interrogation scenes are quite explicit and disgust you. The water boarding scene made me squirm. The end is a display of American bloodlust, naturally.Losonti Tokash wrote:I would say barely anyone realizes how brutal "enhanced interrogation" is and it sounds like the movie forces you to watch a pretty explicit demonstration. And apparently the wild celebrations directly against the aftermath of the assassination made my mother feel sick to her stomach.
Re: Zero Dark Thirty
Maybe the movie can help those so divorced from reality. Its pretty funny that it plays into something Hav said in another thread; that people are comfortable with sanitised violence (or violence with a clean and formal name, or violence against people you're comfortable not caring about) but uncomfortable with actually facing the inevitable reality of it.Losonti Tokash wrote:I would say barely anyone realizes how brutal "enhanced interrogation" is
When people said torture in 2002 I knew exactly what it was.
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Re: Zero Dark Thirty
People are less informed than they think they are, film at 11 :p