Finally, an E-Reader I'd consider buying

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » 2009-10-20 04:44pm

As a huge book-lover I've been somewhat disappointed with the e-readers that are coming to market. I'm looking for economy, versatility, and being able to read pdf's. The article gives me hope of something better from a bookstore I trust: The Nook.

On Tuesday, Barnes & Noble announced that the Nook, the company's e-book reader that aims to compete with Amazon’s Kindle, is available for pre-order. It's a very interesting device: the first dedicated e-book reader that is powered by Google’s Android operating system (it runs Android 1.5).

The Nook should ship at the end of November and it’ll cost you $259. That's the same price as the Kindle 2, though an international Kindle 2 that allows wireless access outside of the U.S. costs $279. (The nook doesn’t include an International option at the moment.)

Barnes & Noble's reader has a 6-inch diagonal E Ink display, just like the Kindle 2, but the clever folks at B&N have also added a 3.5-inch color LCD screen below the E Ink screen. That ancillary screen is used to navigate books via a Cover Flow-like interface, display an on-screen keyboard, and generally operate the device. The Nook comes with 2GB of internal memory, which Barnes & Noble says will hold about 1500 e-books, though that can be expanded by using the included Micro SD slot. You can even listen to MP3s on the nook, either through the built-in mono speaker or by plugging in headphones. And should you wish, you can remove the Nook's battery, for fun and profit—and B&N will sell you an extra battery if the 10-day charge without using wireless isn't enough for you.

The Nook, again much like the Kindle, comes bundles with wireless 3G access—via AT&T, while the Kindle uses Sprint’s network—so you can download content wirelessly. The Nook ups the wireless ante by also including Wi-Fi connectivity (802.11 b/g) and access to free Wi-Fi in all of Barnes & Noble's stores (which is a very good idea, though it doesn’t appear that the Nook has a Web browser, as the Kindle does).

An e-reader isn’t of much interest without something to read on it, and Barnes & Noble boasts more than a million titles, though many of those are through a partnership with Google to distribute public domain titles; there are newspapers and magazines available as well. Free samples of all titles will be available and users will be able to access special content when using their nook at a Barnes & Noble store. You can also read your own PDFs on the Nook, something you can’t do with a Kindle 2 without converting the PDF first.

One of the biggest differences between the Nook and Amazon’s Kindle is that you can let your friends borrow a Nook book for up to 14 days. They will be able to read it on their Nook, or using the Barnes & Noble e-reader available for PCs, Macs, the iPhone, some Motorola smartphones, and the BlackBerry. You can also start reading a book on your Nook, and then keep reading where you left off on your Mac or PC thanks to Barnes & Noble’s Reading Now technology, which sounds very much like Amazon’s WhisperSync feature.

If you want to play around with a Nook in person, you’ll be able to do so at any of Barnes & Noble’s physical stores, thanks to special Nook displays that should be popping up in the coming weeks.

Havok · Post by **Havok** » 2009-10-20 05:31pm

So aside from the LCD screen and letting your friends borrow a book... what is the difference?

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » 2009-10-20 06:51pm

Havok wrote:So aside from the LCD screen and letting your friends borrow a book... what is the difference?

PDF compatibility out of the box and a micro SD slot.

Tritio · Post by **Tritio** » 2009-10-20 09:49pm

Quick question:
Why not get something like an iphone or any other large screened phone and read your ebook off that instead? I don't have one, but my impression is that those phones should be able to open .pdf files as well as other commonly used formats and has the storage capacity to easily store many ebooks. Paying $200+ for a specialised E-Reader? What am I missing?

Count Chocula · Post by **Count Chocula** » 2009-10-20 10:01pm

It's a neat idea, but...for about $75 more you can get an Asus netbook, and view PDFs, text files, Web pages, the Gutenberg Project library, etc. Plus mp3s. Looks like the Kindle e-book format is proprietary, though, like Apple's iTunes. So no new books, a negative for the netbook.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2009-10-20 10:05pm

The whole point is the easier-to-read digital paper and small form-factor.

Reading on the iphone is fine, but it's not as good (I imagine) as the much larger form-factor of these devices.

Did Chocula just say that 'Apple's iTunes' is a 'proprietary format'? Does he have any idea what he's talking about?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2009-10-20 10:42pm

Tritio wrote:Quick question:
Why not get something like an iphone or any other large screened phone and read your ebook off that instead? I don't have one, but my impression is that those phones should be able to open .pdf files as well as other commonly used formats and has the storage capacity to easily store many ebooks. Paying $200+ for a specialised E-Reader? What am I missing?

Some people like the convenience of having a lot of books with them without having to actually carry a lot of books. Plus, iphones. . .frankly are not that good for reading anything. Especially any type of large format PDF where you have to constantly flick to zoom into different areas; I have enough of a headache just trying to browse certain websites on my ipod, let alone books. A dedicated ereader is also a lot more convenient than a laptop, with a superior battery life and more convenient form factor. Obviously they're not for everyone, but there's apparently enough people who can use them that they're profitable.

Ypoknons · Post by **Ypoknons** » 2009-10-20 10:49pm

Count Chocula wrote:It's a neat idea, but...for about $75 more you can get an Asus netbook, and view PDFs, text files, Web pages, the Gutenberg Project library, etc. Plus mp3s. Looks like the Kindle e-book format is proprietary, though, like Apple's iTunes. So no new books, a negative for the netbook.

Yes, but the e-ink screen is much more natural and doesn't use any battery until you turn pages (except for this new B&N one I suppose). Plus it's hard to get on the subway and read a netbook - it's substantially bulkier, has a long start-up time, using a mouse much more fiddly than pushing next page buttons, and they are in my experience, rather hot. Trust me, I have both (a Sony Reader and a eeePC 1000H) and ideally I'd keep their roles separate.

Why not use a phone? You could, I suppose. But aside from the bigger E-Ink screen, even the biggest phone screen mean constant scrolling and peering at this tiny thing (yes, even 3.5-4" screens are pretty small). Fine for the daily headlines, but not an ideal situation for a 300 page novel really. Honestly, if you read a lot $260 is not a huge deal, and the E-Books can be viewed on other mediums - PC, Phone etc... If you want media, the iTouch or PSP will keep you much, much happier.

As for the B&N reader, it looks innovative, but it's still a 6" screen reader. My experience with PDF's on my Sony is that it's not ideal - the screen is not big enough to show one A4 page with a decent sized font, and margins get in the way. The zooming action is not smooth enough for constant use. You can reformat your PDFs, but I have too many documents to bother with (especially law school texts). A 6" reader is much more suitable for reading formatted E-Books and Word documents. For heavy PDF use you really want a 10" Kindle DX or similiar.

Sarevok · Post by **Sarevok** » 2009-10-20 11:29pm

Count Chocula wrote:It's a neat idea, but...for about $75 more you can get an Asus netbook, and view PDFs, text files, Web pages, the Gutenberg Project library, etc. Plus mp3s. Looks like the Kindle e-book format is proprietary, though, like Apple's iTunes. So no new books, a negative for the netbook.

Speaking as a die hard Asus EEE pc fanatic the EEE is not very good at reading books. It is due its traditional clamshell laptop design. You cant hold it at a comfortable angle. Plus in summertime the EEE can get quite warm. The battery life on most EEE models is also not stellar meaning you need to haul an ac adapter if you plan on reading books on the go. Now if we were talking about tablet pcs they would perfect for this assuming they have a good battery.

Count Chocula · Post by **Count Chocula** » 2009-10-20 11:52pm

Stark wrote:Did Chocula just say that 'Apple's iTunes' is a 'proprietary format'? Does he have any idea what he's talking about?

Perhaps I spoke imprecisely. Apple's "aac" algorithm won't play on anything but an iPod, iTouch, iPhone, iLoveMe, etc. My wife's .aac files won't play on Windows Media Player, nor will .mp4 files. I need to whip out my Roxy Easy Media Creator to listen to the files my wife's downloaded for her iTouch and convert them to mp3 files.

BTW, I was thinking about computers and media players, not PlayStation, some cell phones, or Nintendo. Color me abashed. What color is that anyway?

Post by **Beowulf** » 2009-10-20 11:55pm

Count Chocula wrote:
Stark wrote:Did Chocula just say that 'Apple's iTunes' is a 'proprietary format'? Does he have any idea what he's talking about?
Perhaps I spoke imprecisely. Apple's "aac" algorithm won't play on anything but an iPod, iTouch, iPhone, iLoveMe, etc. My wife's .aac files won't play on Windows Media Player, nor will .mp4 files. I need to whip out my Roxy Easy Media Creator to listen to the files my wife's downloaded for her iTouch and convert them to mp3 files.

Then you need to install the correct codecs. I can play .m4a files just fine on any of my computers (with the exception of my wife's netbook, because I haven't been assed to do so.)

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2009-10-20 11:59pm

Count Chocula wrote:
Stark wrote:Did Chocula just say that 'Apple's iTunes' is a 'proprietary format'? Does he have any idea what he's talking about?
Perhaps I spoke imprecisely. Apple's "aac" algorithm won't play on anything but an iPod, iTouch, iPhone, iLoveMe, etc. My wife's .aac files won't play on Windows Media Player, nor will .mp4 files. I need to whip out my Roxy Easy Media Creator to listen to the files my wife's downloaded for her iTouch and convert them to mp3 files.

BTW, I was thinking about computers and media players, not PlayStation, some cell phones, or Nintendo. Color me abashed. What color is that anyway?

Which version of WMP are you talking about? I just played an .aac file that I ripped a few weeks ago just fine in WMP. Unless you're talking about .aac files bought from the Apple store, in which case no shit sherlock. The songs you buy from the store are DRM enabled.

Edit: It seems that even purchased .aac tracks will play just fine in WMP. I have a handful of those so I really don't know what the fuck you're going on about. I also haven't bothered installing any codecs whatsoever for music files that I can recall, so. . .yeah.

Count Chocula · Post by **Count Chocula** » 2009-10-21 12:07am

General Zod wrote:Which version of WMP are you talking about? I just played an .aac file that I ripped a few weeks ago just fine in WMP. Unless you're talking about .aac files bought from the Apple store, in which case no shit sherlock. The songs you buy from the store are DRM enabled.

I'm looking at Windows Media Player, version 11.0.6002.18065, on a 64-bit Vista laptop. Am I doing something wrong?

P.S. Kodiak, sorry about the hijack. I still read .pdf, .prc and Word novels on my PalmOne handheld. Only $200 on eBay, if you can stand a 4" diagonal screen.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2009-10-21 12:13am

Count Chocula wrote:
General Zod wrote:Which version of WMP are you talking about? I just played an .aac file that I ripped a few weeks ago just fine in WMP. Unless you're talking about .aac files bought from the Apple store, in which case no shit sherlock. The songs you buy from the store are DRM enabled.
I'm looking at Windows Media Player, version 11.0.6002.18065, on a 64-bit Vista laptop. Am I doing something wrong?

Beats me. I only have the CCCP codec pack installed on my computer for playing back certain video files, and I can't remember ever doing anything different to WMP to enable AAC playback.

Executor32 · Post by **Executor32** » 2009-10-21 01:54am

It's because CCCP includes ffdshow, which will decode AAC (among other things) in any player that uses Directshow, like WMP.

Duckie · Post by **Duckie** » 2009-10-21 02:00am

Oh, that's what ffshow does. I had been wondering for a while. I'm surprised this thread actually was useful to me, I clicked on it thinking "I do not care about e-readers why am I reading this".

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2009-10-21 02:53am

General Zod wrote:Which version of WMP are you talking about? I just played an .aac file that I ripped a few weeks ago just fine in WMP. Unless you're talking about .aac files bought from the Apple store, in which case no shit sherlock. The songs you buy from the store are DRM enabled.

Edit: It seems that even purchased .aac tracks will play just fine in WMP. I have a handful of those so I really don't know what the fuck you're going on about. I also haven't bothered installing any codecs whatsoever for music files that I can recall, so. . .yeah.

Yes, songs purchased from the iTunes store went DRM-free around this past March, I believe.

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2009-10-21 02:59am

FSTargetDrone wrote:
General Zod wrote:Which version of WMP are you talking about? I just played an .aac file that I ripped a few weeks ago just fine in WMP. Unless you're talking about .aac files bought from the Apple store, in which case no shit sherlock. The songs you buy from the store are DRM enabled.

Edit: It seems that even purchased .aac tracks will play just fine in WMP. I have a handful of those so I really don't know what the fuck you're going on about. I also haven't bothered installing any codecs whatsoever for music files that I can recall, so. . .yeah.
Yes, songs purchased from the iTunes store went DRM-free around this past March, I believe.

Huh, go figure. Looks like that's the case, but I hardly ever buy music off iTunes so I totally forgot.

JointStrikeFighter · Post by **JointStrikeFighter** » 2009-10-21 05:10am

Chocula again shows he is an idiot; aac's can be played on a number of non apple MP3 players.

TheLostVikings · Post by **TheLostVikings** » 2009-10-21 06:14am

JointStrikeFighter wrote:Chocula again shows he is an idiot; aac's can be played on a number of non apple MP3 players.

And plenty (the majority?) of cellphones, because unlike mp3, which require a licensing fee, aac is totally free.

Laughing Mechanicus · Post by **Laughing Mechanicus** » 2009-10-21 08:15am

I read quite a few long pdf/html documents and it would be really, really nice to be able to do that while in the train/toilet/sunlight but so far I have been really underwhelmed with both the design and price of these e-readers.

I mean, the Kindles design is awful - nearly a third of the face of the device is taken up with... a keyboard?. What is it for? I know you can search for new content on it, but couldn't that be done with an on-screen keyboard? As the e-ink is slow to update it would be clunkier than the current method, but how often do you need to enter text? Your enter Amazon account information (once) and then occasional search keywords. Please correct me if there is some other function for it (do people write on their reader? why?). If all else fails, why can't the physical keyboard just fold away?

The Nook (although irrelevant to me, being in the UK) looks a bit better design wise, if only because the LCD takes up a little less space than the Kindles keyboard.

Still though, the price? What about either of these devices means they must cost $280? Are e-ink screens really that expensive?

Kodiak · Post by **Kodiak** » 2009-10-21 11:07am

Count Chocula wrote:
General Zod wrote:Which version of WMP are you talking about? I just played an .aac file that I ripped a few weeks ago just fine in WMP. Unless you're talking about .aac files bought from the Apple store, in which case no shit sherlock. The songs you buy from the store are DRM enabled.
I'm looking at Windows Media Player, version 11.0.6002.18065, on a 64-bit Vista laptop. Am I doing something wrong?

P.S. Kodiak, sorry about the hijack. I still read .pdf, .prc and Word novels on my PalmOne handheld. Only $200 on eBay, if you can stand a 4" diagonal screen.

Hijacks happen. No harm no foul.

One of the main things I would use this for is reading PDF schematics at work. We have a machine shop that I have to regularly go out to to troubleshoot wiring, machining errors, etc. All our machine schematics are in .pdf and with the company wifi rather than just taking armfuls of 3'x4' machine drawings I can pull up the file and read it on a larger-than-palm-sized screen. If I was going on-call somewhere I could load all the pdf's for the machine onto an SD slot and then eliminate the need for a huge paper file.

As a side-note, does anyone know what the potential is for local, county, and university libraries to put their books online? It would be a massive project, but if they have the right to "loan" paper books, couldn't you do the same w/ e-books?

General Zod · Post by **General Zod** » 2009-10-21 11:11am

Kodiak wrote:
As a side-note, does anyone know what the potential is for local, county, and university libraries to put their books online? It would be a massive project, but if they have the right to "loan" paper books, couldn't you do the same w/ e-books?

I imagine such a project would be outside the budget of most libraries, sans free public domain books.

Fleet Admiral JD · Post by **Fleet Admiral JD** » 2009-10-21 11:23am

Kodiak wrote: As a side-note, does anyone know what the potential is for local, county, and university libraries to put their books online? It would be a massive project, but if they have the right to "loan" paper books, couldn't you do the same w/ e-books?

Isn't that what the Google Books project is trying to do? Maybe I misunderstood the intent when I looked at it just now, but it seemed that they were working with libraries to put stuff online.

Also, I am getting the Nook. No questions about it. Makes textbooks cheaper, gives me interwebs wherever I want. Yeah, this thing rocks my socks off.

TheLostVikings · Post by **TheLostVikings** » 2009-10-21 11:32am

Kodiak wrote: As a side-note, does anyone know what the potential is for local, county, and university libraries to put their books online? It would be a massive project, but if they have the right to "loan" paper books, couldn't you do the same w/ e-books?

Actually one of the new Sony readers has a "library" mode where you can use it to check out eBook from your (local?) library for free. And after a little digging it seems that they are just licensing the right to use it from some other company called Overdrive.

You can check out which libraries are included here: http://search.overdrive.com/

And I doubt that they are the only company doing something like that, so surely there must bee other initiatives like it out there. I think my local Norwegian library offer eBooks, but I've never bothered to look into it since I don't own one... yet. I'm liking the look of the Nook so far though.

I think the Nook is definitively the slickest eBook I've seen so far. I've tried both the Kindle2 and a Sony one in person, but the UI on the Kindle is horribly slow and the touchscreen insert on top of the eInk in the Sony one caused massive glare issues. Imho I think separating it like they did was a smart move, the touchscreen means the UI can be much faster without interfering with the eInk itself, and since it turns off automatically when you are not using it the battery drain shouldn't be all that much unless you are fiddling with it every few seconds.

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

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