2009 National Football League thread

[Qwerty 42]

Preseason starts tomorrow night with Buffalo vs. Tennessee at the annual Hall of Fame game in Canton, Ohio. So, now's as good a time as any to get the thread going.

The Eagles are screwed. Future Hall of Fame free safety Brian Dawkins gone in free agency, defensive coordinator Jim Johnson sadly passed away, middle linebacker Stewart Bradley and now tight end Cornelius Ingram have torn their anterior cruciate ligaments. That said, there's always reason for optimism in the light of serious injuries. Ask Earl Morrall. Omar Gaither, Bradley's likely replacement, has some solid experience at the position and is built like an MLB anyway. Starting tight end Brent Celek was outstanding in last year's postseason, and now-entrenched backup Matt Schobel has a lot of experience. Johnson's irreplaceable, but he also picked good proteges: Steve Spagnolu fielded a monstrous defense with the New York Giants. That said, with as good a team as the Giants are, we could spend another season expending ourselves chasing.

So, on the eve of a new season, what are your thoughts about your team?

[The Spartan]

I don't have any specific thoughts at the moment other than to say they damn well better have a winning season this year. They were 8-8 last season, their first non-losing season, but I think they should have been at least 9-7 if not 10-6. They just blew a couple games: Colts at home and Raiders in LA.

9-7 is the minimum acceptable outcome for this year and I'd much prefer 10-6 with a first round playoff shot.

[Dark Flame]

Well, I expect my Brownies to be significantly improved on game day, even if it doesn't show in the final record. Our whole team is in transition with new coaches and coordinators, and also quite a lot of new faces around. I'm pretty excited about the possibilities of our defense being an aggressive unit, and I like the directions we've been going so far.

Offensively, I'm worried about our offensive linemen quality, we have good depth but I'm not sold on the quality of our potential starting five. Same story at running back, receiver, tight end, and quarterback. I'm also not thrilled that we traded away Kellen Winslow Jr. I like what we did with the draft pick we got in return, but we lost a huge weapon and a favorite target of Brady Quinn's.

Overall, if we're simply more competitive on game day and play with better fundamentals and avoid stupidity, I'll be satisfied with 6 wins this year. I think we have the potential to do better, but if we just stay competitive and develop our players, I won't complain.

[Falkenhayn]

We're still coached by Dick Jauron. So vanilla game plans and at least two games lost to bad decisions per year. For all intents, we've got a brand new O-line, which doesn't really bother me this season; our new guards are young with a mean streak, and they'll need some time to develop. If our interior O-line is holding its own against the AFC East's Nosetackles, and Shawn Nelson turns out to be a recieving threat at TE, all by the end of the year, I'll be a happy man.

TO will win us some games, I think. Not enough to make the post season. In all, I'm looking for:

1. A good year from Trent Edwards.
2. Solid development from our interior O-line.
3. A good performance from Shawn Nelson
4. Another 1k yard season from Marshawn
5. Not getting skinned by short slants.

I'd be over the moon for 8-8, but its feeling more like a 6-10 year for the Bills. Then we fire Dick Jauron and make Bobby April HC, because our special teams coach is the only guy on the staff capable of out-thinking the Patriots satanic braintrust.

[Fleet Admiral JD]

I'm hoping that Tom Brady is back in shape this year. . . and doesn't get injured in the first game AGAIN.

Also, it's a good thing the Bills are playing the hall of fame game. Wouldn't want a professional team getting any injuries that early in the season.

[RedImperator]

I'm hoping that Tom Brady is back in shape this year. . . and doesn't get injured in the first game AGAIN.

Also, it's a good thing the Bills are playing the hall of fame game. Wouldn't want a professional team getting any injuries that early in the season.

Don't worry. I'm sure if he does get injured, the league will create a new rule to make sure it never happens again. "It shall be a personal foul for a defensive player to make contact with the quarterback," or somesuch.

[Darth Fanboy]

Also, it's a good thing the Bills are playing the hall of fame game. Wouldn't want a professional team getting any injuries that early in the season.

Lions would have been a better pick if that was the case.

Dark Flame I think that despite improvements the Browns are still the third best team in their respective four team division. I expect to see two brutal wars between the Steelers and Ravens again, and it won't surprise me in the least if they play a third this year as well.

I have a bad feeling that at least one team will get desperate enough to sign Michael Vick, but i'm sick and tired of hearing people ranting and raving that he's done his time and deserves to play in the NFL. Just because he is eligible to play doesn't mean a team has to sign him, and that fact seems to escape a lot of people.

[Dark Flame]

Fanboy, I'm actually hoping that we're the third best team in the division. Lately it seems like the Bengals have become a trendy sleeper pick. Personally, I think the Browns should finish ahead of them this year.

The Bengals have a very good quarterback (now healthy again), good skill players, and a young and solid defense, but they still don't have much of anything figured out on their offensive line. Without that, kiss Carson Palmer goodbye for another year. And don't even think about a running game unless they come together really fast.

Also, I think they are generally one of the most inept teams in the league. Their first round pick is one of only 5 (I think) that are still unsigned, and they're playing a game this weekend! That's not a good indication.

[FSTargetDrone]

I have a bad feeling that at least one team will get desperate enough to sign Michael Vick, but i'm sick and tired of hearing people ranting and raving that he's done his time and deserves to play in the NFL. Just because he is eligible to play doesn't mean a team has to sign him, and that fact seems to escape a lot of people.

That team would be the Philadelphia Eagles:

QB Michael Vick signs 2-year deal with Eagles

By HANK KURZ Jr. (AP) – 23 minutes ago

PHILADELPHIA — Michael Vick is back in the NFL, landing a job with the Philadelphia Eagles. "He signed with the Eagles," agent Joel Segal told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Thursday. He said it was a two-year deal.

Vick, who served 18 months in prison for running a dogfighting ring, signed less than three weeks after he was conditionally reinstated by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell.

Vick can immediately take part in preseason practices, workouts and meetings and can play in the final two preseason games. The former Atlanta Falcons quarterback can apply for full reinstatement by Week 6 in October.

The Eagles went to the playoffs last season under quarterback Donovan McNabb, and are still looking for their elusive first Super Bowl win.

AP sports writers Hank Kurz Jr. and Jon Krawczynski contributed to this report.

I strongly object to having this psycho on the team. I don't care how he helps or if he helps, I won't go back on my previously stated views on this board. I want no part of this clown. I don't think he belongs in the game.

[Qwerty 42]

I am not going to watch a single Eagles game until Vick is released, traded, or put on IR. I am extremely upset about this development, screw the Bird front office.

e: the optimist in me says they're just trying to turn this into draft picks by sending him to, like, Denver.

[FSTargetDrone]

I have the preseason game tonight on and all of these guys calling the game, Herm Edwards, Douglass are falling all over themselves saying how wonderful it is that he is on the team.

(EDIT: Head up my ass earlier--I was reading about Dungy on an unrelated story and typed his name instead of Hem Edwards')

UPDATE: It's a one-year contract with a one-year option. As if it matters.

[Qwerty 42]

I'm going to amend my earlier post:

I've decided to keep watching Eagles game until such a time that Vick proves to me that he's still an asshole, which I imagine will be about three seconds after scoring his first touchdown as an Eagle. That's not really out of support for Vick, but instead because it's not fair to the other 52 players who have been nothing but model citizens in Philadelphia, and don't deserve the brunt of Lurie's four year memory.

[Darth Fanboy]

Does anyone in their right mind think that Philly will pick up the option for that second year? $5.2 million for a backup? Maybe, MAYBE if there's a catatrophic injury to McNabb and that as a concept doesn't seem so far fetched, but if I didn't loathe the Eagles enough already...

Stallworth got the hammer laid down upon him. Suspended for a year without pay and I can't say I feel bad about it.

[Havok]

Good for Vick. And what better place to go than Philly. The fans there hate the team and all the players and are going to boo anyway, so it works out perfect.

[Tsyroc]

Good for Vick. And what better place to go than Philly. The fans there hate the team and all the players and are going to boo anyway, so it works out perfect.

That's kind of my thought on it.

With all of what the standard Philly crowd dishes out who is going to really notice a few extra protesters?

[Qwerty 42]

From owner Jeff Lurie's conference regarding Vick:

When you’re asked to approve something that you find despicable it takes a lot of soul searching. ... I saw a man who was extremely remorseful, who hated what he (did), who served two years of prison time, and who really wants to change his life. ... There’s no room for error on Michael’s part. There’s no third chances. If it isn’t fulfilled the way we expect it to be, then that will be the end.

Vick and Lurie are both saying the right things, which is the only reason I'm not burning anything green I own.

[RedImperator]

I don't like this signing. It's a distraction, it's going to be fodder for the chuckleheads who call up WIP and demand McNabb be traded every time he has a bad game, and I always thought Vick was overrated anyway. That said, let me offer a counterpoint here on Vick:

Vick did serve his time. He spent two years in prison, he's bankrupt, and he lost three of the prime years of his career (and in all likelihood, will never reach his potential as a player now). He's lost more of his career than Donte Stallworth will or Leonard Little did, and both of them killed somebody. So what's the point of further punishment here?

[erik_t]

I have high hopes that the Vikings quarterback clusterfuck will finally get Childress fired. The Vikings still have a multiyear window to do something special if they take care of those two holes: QB and HC.

[Qwerty 42]

I always thought Vick was overrated anyway.

I agree with your points, including this one: a quarterback having a career rushing YPA higher than his passing YPA is not acceptable at a level higher than Friday Night Lights.

[Havok]

Vick did serve his time. He spent two years in prison, he's bankrupt, and he lost three of the prime years of his career (and in all likelihood, will never reach his potential as a player now). He's lost more of his career than Donte Stallworth will or Leonard Little did, and both of them killed somebody. So what's the point of further punishment here?

This has been my thinking since well before he was released from prison. We are always quick to say innocent until proven guilty, but we want to hamper those that are guilty, but served their punishments, that we as a whole decided was adequate, well after they have finished serving that time.

Vick has lost A LOT. Far more then the players that Red mentioned and they killed people, and no offense to dog lovers, but you can't go down to the old folks home and buy a new Grandpa to replace the one that was killed in a drunken hit and run. Vick has a lot to prove, but the sad thing is most people will never give him the chance to even try.

[erik_t]

While I certainly feel for the men killed by Stallworth et al, I think direct comparison between a repeated conspiratorial crime and a profoundly stupid one is disingenuous. This is not to say I'm not in favor of stricter DUI penalties, or that a man isn't worth more than a dog, but intent counts a lot to me.

[Havok]

I always thought Vick was overrated anyway.

I agree with your points, including this one: a quarterback having a career rushing YPA higher than his passing YPA is not acceptable at a level higher than Friday Night Lights.

While I don't agree with that, something that people, especially those that didn't get to watch Falcon's games while he was there, forget was that he had some of the worst catching receivers in the league. They were positively dismal. If they could have held on to half the passes they dropped, Vick's passing numbers wouldn't be nearly as bad.

[Havok]

While I certainly feel for the men killed by Stallworth et al, I think direct comparison between a repeated conspiratorial crime and a profoundly stupid one is disingenuous. This is not to say I'm not in favor of stricter DUI penalties, or that a man isn't worth more than a dog, but intent counts a lot to me.

I absolutely agree, however Vick's issues with the law had more to do with illegal gambling across state lines than with animal cruelty IIRC. And if you are going to delve into the matter, you need to address exactly what Vick's intent was... Kill dogs or make money gambling on dog fights.

I know it sounds silly to say that, but if it was merely the former, he didn't need to set up/finance an organization to fight dogs, he could have just went and killed them. So realistically, he isn't a malicious dog hating fiend that got his rocks off killing them, he was running an illegal business and probably viewed the dogs simply as tools or a means to an end, whatever that may have been.

[Qwerty 42]

Some more quotes from the Lurie interview, any emphasis is mine. It's from the Philadelphia media, so they'll refer to people by their first names in local tradition.

Jeff Lurie: Eagle owner.
Andy Reid: Eagle coach.
Donovan McNabb: Eagle starting quarterback.

Lurie on Vick: ‘I needed to see a lot of self-hatred’
Posted in Eagles, Sports on Friday, August 14th, 2009 at 3:17 pm |

Nobody was more disgusted, more appalled, more sickened by what Michael Vick did than Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie.

So when Andy Reid first presented him with the idea of signing Michael Vick, Lurie did not react positively.

“I was asked to approve Michael coming to the Eagles after having committed something so many of us – myself very much included – regard as horrific behavior,” Lurie said at a NovaCare Complex press conference this morning. “I don’t even have words to describe the cruelty, the torture, the complete disregard for any definition of common decency. I don’t have the words.

“In the past two years, I’ve had two dogs that have passed away and I think about them every day. So when you’re asked to approve something that you find despicable, it takes a lot of soul searching.”

That soul searching – lengthy talks with Vick and discussions with Vick adviser Tony Dungy and NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell – finally led Lurie to the conclusion that as horrifying as Vick’s crimes were, the disgraced former star quarterback is sincere in his desire to not only rehabilitate himself but to devote his life to educating people about animal cruelty and preventing exactly the sort of crimes he committed.

“After multiple conversations, I felt more open to giving a human being a second chance who possibly could become a socially active NFL player who actually could do great things off the field,” Lurie said, one day after the Eagles signed Vick to a two-year contract.

“Could one be counter-intuitive here on my part and take away the hatred for this kind of behavior and say going forward, can this human being, Michael Vick, become a positive force in our community? Could that be? Or is this just a method to reinvigorate a career and not really have both the remorse and the commitment?

“So I needed to really dissect. I wanted to understand if he had enough self-hatred for me. I needed to see a lot of self-hatred in order to improve this. As all of you know, we take great pride in building a team with great character. Eventually, a question I had to ask, is going forward, is Michael going to be a negative force in society the way he’s been, is he going to be responsible for pain, suffering, disappointment, disloyalty, criminal behavior, or is he going to have an opportunity and be able to be committed enough to … become a force for good? …

“I saw a man who was extremely remorseful, who hated what he had … perpetrated, who had served two years of prison time, and who really wants to have changed his life. There was an opportunity here to be a support system, a coach that really felt strongly that we did have the support in place (and) a mentor in Donovan.

“It was important to me that Donovan really wanted to, in a sense, take this on. If there was any equivocation there, if the thoughts hadn’t come from Donovan originally on how he felt we should proceed here, there’s no way I would have - and probably Coach Reid would have - gone in that direction.”

Vick, a three-time Pro Bowl quarterback with the Falcons, served 18 months at Leavenworth Prison in Kansas and two more months of home confinement on federal charges of running an illegal dogfighting operation in his hometown of Newport News, Va.

Vick was tentatively reinstated last month by NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who decide at what point in the first six weeks of the regular season Vick can play again.

Lurie said he agonized over the Vick decision but was ultimately persuaded to allow the signing following lengthy talks with the 29-year-old quarterback.

“I spent a lot of time talking directly with Michael, just the two of us, and that’s unprecedented in the way we operate with the Eagles,” Lurie said. “I have a very, very close and respectful relationship with Andy Reid and there’s really never been an instance where he wanted to acquire a player and I said I don’t want to. This was one where I had to discover it for myself.

“I spent hours with Michael. Asked him extremely tough questions. Tried to evaluate remorse. It’s a tough thing to do. We’re all skeptical. You’re innately skeptical of somebody (who did) horrendous things that they could be remorseful.

“In spending the time with Michael, I think he deserves that opportunity, (but) he’s going to have to prove it in actions and not in words. He’s going to have to prove to Philadelphia, to the United States, to the National Football league, to human beings and animals everywhere, that this man is committed to save more animals than he has been responsible for eliminating. …

“In terms of influencing young people to not take part in dogfighting and respecting animals, people will listen to somebody who’s been through it much more than somebody who’s just saying the right thing.

“This was an impossibly difficult decision to approve. … Meeting with Michael I felt the self-hatred, I felt the remorse. I felt the plans going forward could be very, very fruitful for animal rights in America. This is not a slam dunk. He is going to have to be absolutely committed to be proactive. If we don’t have an extremely proactive player here off the field then this is a terrible decision.

“It’s going to be initially disappointing to some people that we have given him a second chance and I am aware of that. Sometimes you have to make decisions that are difficult. Hopefully, as we move forward, Michael will prove his value to society.”

Vick, who last played football on New Year’s Eve 2006 in a Falcons-Eagles game at the Linc, is scheduled to practice with the Eagles tomorrow morning at their South Philadelphia training complex.

In his first public comments since he was sentenced in 2007, Vick expressed remorse for his actions and said he understands that if he doesn’t fulfill Lurie’s expectations to work in the community and effect social change, he won’t be an Eagle any longer.

“I’ve done some terrible things,” Vick said. “Made a horrible mistake, and now I want to be part of the solution and not the problem.

“I was wrong for what I did. Everything that happened at that point and time in my life was wrong and unnecessary. And, for the life of me to this day I can’t understand why I was involved in such a pointless activity and why I risked so much at the pinnacle of my career. I was naïve to a lot of things. But if I can help more animals than I hurt, then I am contributing, I am doing my part.

“There was a point in my life when before I was convicted or before the allegations even came out when I knew it was wrong and I felt that it was wrong. Just when I was trying to turn the corner and it was too late, but everything happens for a reason and there is a reason I was sent to Kansas and a reason I was convicted. I was conscious of the fact that it was wrong and to this day I have to deal with that shame and that embarrassment.

“As I grew older and as things started to transpire and then once I went to prison I had plenty of time to think about what I did. I’ve seen people’s reactions and I’ve been to that point that I never really cared. I won’t say I didn’t care, but I never thought about it. Now I understand people care about their animals. They care about their health, their welfare, the protection of animals and now I do.”

Vick said he understands that public opinion will be mixed at best. He knows there will likely be protests and demonstrations at stadiums the Eagles visit and perhaps in Philadelphia as well. He knows many will doubt his sincerity, will doubt his motives.

“I understand,” he said. “I would hope that they would (forgive me). I committed an act that was cruel and it was unethical. It was inhumane, so I understand to a certain degree. But our country is a country of second chances and I’ve paid my debt to society. I spent two years in prison … and that was a humbling experience.

“I can’t explain how deeply hurt and how sorry I was once everything went down and I had to explain to my three kids what had happened, what had transpired, and it was because of daddy’s faults. That was the toughest thing. I asked them for a second chance to be a better father, to do the right things and to show them the way and how things are supposed to be done.”

As a very successful head coach – the Eagles have reached the NFC Championship Game five times in the last eight years, beating Vick’s Falcons in 2004 on the way to the Super Bowl – Reid can make a controversial or unpopular move like this and not worry about the fallout.

He knows what’s being said, but when he believes something, it’s impossible to change his mind.

“I expect the public to have questions initially, which is obviously taking place,” Reid said. “But at that same time, I trust that we do the right things here, that we have done our homework and that Michael himself has his life going in a positive direction.

“I think … the majority of the public wants Michael to do well and that’s us as human beings. We give people an opportunity, as long as they’ve taken the right steps they are given an opportunity and again that’s what makes this country such a great thing and the National Football League such a great thing.”

Reid has been vague about where Vick will fit in on the Eagles, and how he’ll use his talents. But asked whether he expects Vick to be a factor sooner than later, he said this:

“He will contribute. And you can ask defensive coordinators on other teams if they’re worried about that.”

But the football stuff won’t matter if Vick doesn’t live up to his commitment to Lurie off the field.

“My actions will speak louder than my words,” Vick said. “To be proactive and be involved in the community. People will see that in due time. I’ve partnered with the Humane Society and we’ve consciously been working hard to reach out to certain communities to make sure that we attack the problem.

And the booing he’ll hear? And the pickets he may have to walk through? And the outcry from animal rights activists that will follow him wherever he goes?

He knows it’s all coming.

“It’s life, I have to deal with it,” he said. “I have to make a lot of people believers.”

Reuben Frank covers the Eagles for Phillyburbs.com. His email address is ###rfrank@phillyburbs.com

Like I said, this is a dumb decision. But, Lurie and Vick are saying all of the right things at this point. I'll wait and see if they live up to the talk.

[Ericxihn]

While I don't agree with that, something that people, especially those that didn't get to watch Falcon's games while he was there, forget was that he had some of the worst catching receivers in the league. They were positively dismal. If they could have held on to half the passes they dropped, Vick's passing numbers wouldn't be nearly as bad.

Yeah, how can he possibly succeed throwing to the likes of Roddy White?