Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

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Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Broomstick »

A certain recently deceased celebrity has claimed to have suffered vitiligo for years. Well, let's look at the evidence. Here are some pictures of vitiligo:

link to very large picture

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A Detroit area TV news anchor of African descent, Lee Thomas, without his makeup:
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And with his makeup:
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He has elected to darken the white areas of his face when appearing on TV as he feels his skin condition would distract from what he is doing on camera otherwise, but off work he often goes about with his bare skin. He has spoken out in recent years about the problems he has faced with this skin condition, particularly as someone who is otherwise dark skinned.

Now here's a picture of Michael Jackson, and a close up of his arms:
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Here's a couple close-ups of one leg - some of this is an infected spider bite, but lower down you can see both pigmented and de-pigmented skin:
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Daaaaay-um... looks like he might have had vitiligo. Of course, I'm not a doctor and even if I was I couldn't diagnosis over the internet via picture, but that appearance is consistent with a thumping good case of vitiligo. The MJ pictures are from this blog date June 10, 2007 so it wasn't put up recently during the hullaballoo about his death.

Here is another one:
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I can not verify that these pictures are 100% authentic, but they would seem to lend credence to his claim. It would go along way to explain why he took some pains to keep his skin as covered as possible and used an umbrella in sunlight - the areas depigmented by vitiligo no longer have any natural protection from the sun, they are effectively the same as an albino's skin. Sunburn could set in quickly, in only 10-15 minutes, and the risk of skin cancer is vastly increased.

I just thought it was interesting. It also wouldn't have helped his body image, either, and we already know he had issues with that.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Dooey Jo »

No no, I heard Michael Jackson had some kind of surgery and/or bleached himself, to gradually become more and more pale over the years, because he so crazy.


It was always a pretty dumb rumour.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Darth Wong »

If vitiligo were his only problem, he should have been able to deal with it. Ultimately, his root problem was that he was "so crazy".
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Broomstick »

Well, yes, if he was a well-adjusted human being he would have "dealt with it". Or at least been more upfront - "I have the disfiguring disease and I find it embarrassing, but here is what's happening". In the US (I can't speak for other countries) dermatologists do point out that this disease can be especially distressing for those of African descent as there is such as contrast between the dark and light parts of their skin. If I had vitiligo you'd hardly notice, particularly in the winter, but with black people you can spot it a block away.

Contrast MJ with Lee Thomas - Thomas admits that it has and sometimes does cause him enormous distress and it was very difficult for him to appear on camera during an interview to discuss his condition. Nonetheless, he "deals" with it without being totally freaky in the rest of his life.

There has been speculation for years that MJ did not have vitiligo. It appears that there is evidence that he did, in fact, have it. It's sad that there is so much bullshit around the man that such doubt was cast on what was, apparently, a real affliction.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Oskuro »

Considering that much of the gossip regarding MJ's skin colour accussed him of racism, it must have been really hard for him to admit he had that illness, since such an admission would have justified his image change. But, then again, there's the "so crazy" factor.

I'd wager racism, or race identity, might play a part in those of African descent suffering the illness having a hard time, appart from the obvious aesthethics issue. I wouldn't put it past many social groups of both ethnicities to discriminate aganist such a person as being ethnically inpure.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Broomstick »

Not just that - for black people who's bone structure is closer to Caucasian, the end result of a bad case of vitiligo is that they won't even be accepted as black anymore because they don't look black. Imagine living your whole life identifying with a particular group then waking up one morning and being told you don't belong anymore.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by FSTargetDrone »

Broomstick wrote:Well, yes, if he was a well-adjusted human being he would have "dealt with it". Or at least been more upfront - "I have the disfiguring disease and I find it embarrassing, but here is what's happening". In the US (I can't speak for other countries) dermatologists do point out that this disease can be especially distressing for those of African descent as there is such as contrast between the dark and light parts of their skin.
I may be getting my facts wrong, but didn't he deny having any sort of plastic surgery (aside from the chin cleft thing which he evidently DID admit to) for years, even when confronted with pictures of himself when he had a larger nose, etc.? If he doesn't want to deal with and publicly admit to a series of elective surgeries which clearly whittled his nose down to something less than human in appearance, then it doesn't surprise me that he would deal with his skin condition in a less than sensible way.

EDIT:

Broomstick mentioned Lee Thomas. There is a short video documentary about him here if anyone is interested.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Broomstick »

MJ admitted to nose surgery at one point, saying that as a young man he'd sustained a broken nose (pretty sure that's even true) and opted for surgical repair. It is possible that something went wrong with the initial nose surgery, leading to subsequent problems and more surgery. This site shows graphic pictures of just how badly wrong a nose job can go - I made a link rather than having the pictures show up here because they are images that could be pretty disturbing and upsetting to someone, as it's a picture of someone who's nose partially died and really is rotting away. It's also possible he just couldn't stop having his nose tweaked again and again until it fell off.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Big Orange »

I agree his skin was already going and like Lee Thomas he hid it, but of course being Jacko he went off in the opposite, terminal extreme of covering his condition up with whitening bleach (IMHO).
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Oskuro »

Broomstick wrote:Not just that - for black people who's bone structure is closer to Caucasian, the end result of a bad case of vitiligo is that they won't even be accepted as black anymore because they don't look black. Imagine living your whole life identifying with a particular group then waking up one morning and being told you don't belong anymore.
I imagine it might be worse for those whose features remaing clearly distinguishable as African, yet their skin is white, I suspect that they would be shunned by both ehtnicities, wich I think might have been part of the rationale for MJ's transformation, that is, until he took things way too far.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Vendetta »

I thought this was common knowledge? I certainly heard a long time ago that it was this condition which caused Jackson to progressively bleach his skin to hide the effect.
Broomstick wrote:MJ admitted to nose surgery at one point, saying that as a young man he'd sustained a broken nose (pretty sure that's even true) and opted for surgical repair. It is possible that something went wrong with the initial nose surgery, leading to subsequent problems and more surgery
I think there's more to it than that. He had a lot more work done than his nose. His jawline, for instance, changes significantly between the two pictures in the OP. Jackson obviously had massive body image issues, and his repeated surgeries are likely as much an expression of that as the reported eating disorder, he was able to afford to have his body repeatedly changed, and no-one was really able to say no.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Broomstick »

Vendetta wrote:I thought this was common knowledge? I certainly heard a long time ago that it was this condition which caused Jackson to progressively bleach his skin to hide the effect.
:roll: No, he did not bleach his skin. Vitiligo bleached his skin. That's what it does, it destroys the melanocytes in the skin. Actual skin bleaching, which is rare these days, does not leave patchiness of the sort seen in the photos. (I also presume MJ would have gone to a doctor for any cosmetic procedures - he had way too many of them, but at least stuck with MD's rather than DIY) I've had my doubts in the past, but the pictures are pretty convincing to me. He didn't chemically bleach his skin. If he had, the skin tone would have been more consistent and even.

As for why he went for lighter makeup rather than that matching his natural skin tone like Lee Thomas: racism. Really, I absolutely believe that was a factor in his choice. The music business is as full of racist bullshit as any other part of society. For years MJ was the only black performer on MTV (hard to believe these days, but it's true), and that was only because Sony threatened to pull all of their artist videos if MTV didn't show Jackson's. Jackson grew up in the 1960's during all sorts of racial upheavals, he grew up in the Gary/Chicago area which even now still have more than its fair share of bigots, and he may have been a freak but he wasn't stupid. Did a lighter skin tone work to his advantage professionally? Almost certainly. Even in Motown - a music genre entirely dominated by black performers and largely controlled by them - the biggest stars tended to have the lighter skin, and many performers there also used makeup to lighten their skin color (though not to the extent Jackson did). Nor was that practice restricted to musicians - actors in movies and TV did the same damn thing. It's obvious with, say, Nichelle Nichols when comparing her in costume as Lt. Uhura for TOS vs. her appearing entirely without makeup, or in some of the later Star Trek movies. This is one of those ugly historical facts people like to ignore. Even if MJ had never had vitiligo he might have used makeup to lighten his skin tone (though probably not as much). Combine that with the sweat generated in his dance routines and its tendency to make the makeup run, a lighter makeup that ran during a performance was also going to be less noticeable than a darker color that ran and revealed totally white skin. Vitiligo might have pushed it to an extreme, but it wasn't the sole reason MJ wore so much makeup. It was, at least in part, driven by business concerns.

As to why his vitiligo was so extensive.... sometimes it just happens that way. Vitiligo is also, however, associated with autoimmune disorders. Jackson at one point reported he suffered from lupus. Now, not everyone with lupus has vitiligo (the performer Seal has lupus - that's what caused the extensive scarring on his face - but his skin color in intact) but lupus is a severe autoimmune disorder and anyone with vitiglio and lupus would be expected to have pretty severe vitiligo. I don't know if MJ actually had lupus or not, but it is possible.

I wish MJ had used his celebrity to bring some attention, sympathy, and understanding about vitiligo to the general public. Especially, given his star status globally, this might have done a lot of good in some other countries where those with vitiligo are treated as lepers - social ostracism, unemployment, family rejection, etc. However, he was not required to parade his disorder(s) in public. Indeed, many people wish his disorders had been less on display. We are talking about someone with severe body image issues and, frankly, vitiligo isn't pretty to look at. I don't blame him for wanting to cover it up, most people with the disorder do so, even those who are light-skinned Caucasians to begin with much less dark skinned and of African descent.
Broomstick wrote:MJ admitted to nose surgery at one point, saying that as a young man he'd sustained a broken nose (pretty sure that's even true) and opted for surgical repair. It is possible that something went wrong with the initial nose surgery, leading to subsequent problems and more surgery
I think there's more to it than that. He had a lot more work done than his nose.
Oh, yes, I agree - I just saying it's a possibility for how the ball got rolling. Once you have one thing done it becomes much easier to keep snipping and trimming.
His jawline, for instance, changes significantly between the two pictures in the OP.
Hey, for awhile there his jawline changed on at least a yearly basis.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Oskuro »

Broomstick wrote:This is one of those ugly historical facts people like to ignore.
Historical? It still happens today. Wasn't there some controversy about Beyonce's skin color in a L'Oreal ad recently? And it is evident how black actors tend to be of the very light skin category in many movies.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Broomstick »

Yes, it's still a problem today. Sorry if I came across implying it wasn't. Today's situation, however, is much improved over prior decades.

I can't speak directly for black Americans, but my observation is that in some ways gradations of skin color are even more important to the black community than to the white. Whites tend to lump all blacks together in many ways but among blacks there's a hyperawareness of shades and subtleties of skin color that is quite remarkable. Terms such as "high yellow" and "paper bag parties" are nearly unknown among white people. Skin color bias is alive and well in the black community, sad to say. Favoritism of lighter skin isn't wholly driven by white America.

After our recent election I was a little surprised at the amount of commentary I overheard around here regarding our current First Lady being darker skinned than her husband - meanwhile, the white folks largely aren't noticing that. I sure didn't until someone pointed it out to me. It's not a huge difference to my eyes but it's sure important to some of my neighbors.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Oskuro »

Amusingly, I had kind of the reverse effect recently, regarding Lewis Hamilton (F1-Driver), who I didn't realize was black until his chaffing with Fernando Alonso brought about an onslaught of racist assholery from Spanish fans.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Vendetta »

No, he did not bleach his skin. Vitiligo bleached his skin. That's what it does, it destroys the melanocytes in the skin. Actual skin bleaching, which is rare these days, does not leave patchiness of the sort seen in the photos.
However, the background to the patches on Jackson's skin get progressively lighter, whereas the picture of Lee Thomas shows no such effect, there's a marked contrast between the affected and unaffected skin areas.

The appearance is that Jackson chose, rather than to continuously apply makeup, to lighten the rest of his skin so that the vitiligo patches stood out less. Which is quite consistent with the rest of the body image choices he made, going in for repeated surgical modification.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Oskuro »

I remember MJ had been quoted as saying "At first I used make-up to cover white patches, evetually, I ended up using make-up to cover dark patches".

And I'm guessing that, just as the speed and pattern vary, the look of the borders might be different from individual to individual. Not to mention that the properties of a person's skin can vary drastically from one person to the next.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Broomstick »

True.

And some people with extensive vitiligo have, indeed, chosen to chemically bleach their remaining pigmented skin to even out their skin color. It is a perfectly legitimate course to take in extreme cases. However, professionally, medically done skin bleaching for such cases IS pretty total in nature. If MJ had had it done he would not have had remaining patches of brown as shown. His skin would have looked like that shown for Caucasian sufferers of vitiligo, if not completely white. To my eye, what brown he still has remaining would be consistent with brown skin shield for many years from sunlight, not truly bleached skin.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Eleas »

It's funny. I've had vitiligo all my life, as has my sister; clearly not to that extent, though. It's never bothered me (my sister it did bother for a while, since she got caught up in barbed wire and the resultant scars were extremely noticeable; they did eventually bleach, I think). Seeing as how my skin is pale, however, its impact is obviously far less noticeable and aggravating than it would be to people with naturally dark skin. The most I get from it is an interesting marble pattern on the backs of my hand and a few other spots - I usually have to point it out for people to really notice.

Seems pretty unfair, really.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by folti78 »

I've had it since around age ten and it's quite visible thanks to my tad darker than usual original skin color, especially during the summer. Thanks to it being rather pervasive, I'm that funny guy wearing as much cover as possible (long trousers, long sleeved shirts, socks with sandals and a wide brimmed hat) with an SPF 50 sunscreen at hand, no matter how hot it is outside.

It gave the bullies more fodder against me back in primary and high school, which didn't helped too much.

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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by xerex »

Vendetta wrote:
No, he did not bleach his skin. Vitiligo bleached his skin. That's what it does, it destroys the melanocytes in the skin. Actual skin bleaching, which is rare these days, does not leave patchiness of the sort seen in the photos.
However, the background to the patches on Jackson's skin get progressively lighter, whereas the picture of Lee Thomas shows no such effect, there's a marked contrast between the affected and unaffected skin areas.

The appearance is that Jackson chose, rather than to continuously apply makeup, to lighten the rest of his skin so that the vitiligo patches stood out less. Which is quite consistent with the rest of the body image choices he made, going in for repeated surgical modification.
vitiligo isnt static. It spreads.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by CaptainChewbacca »

xerex wrote:vitiligo isnt static. It spreads.
Indeed, and in some cases can completely change a person's skin tone on 100% of their body in a matter of years.
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Re: Vitiligo and Celebrity (image heavy OP)

Post by Broomstick »

Another important point is that Lee Thomas still walks around in sunlight so that part of his skin that retains functional melanocytes remains dark. Jackson started covering up and staying out of the sun years ago and even dark skinned people will become lighter if they keep out of the sun. That, too, contributed to his lightening skin color.
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