Movies where the heroes bother you

[Pulp Hero]

What movies have you watched where either the supposed heroes or the movies philosophy bother you. And I don't mean where it is understood that a hero is doing something bad (Like in The Shield ) but where it is presented as good.

Two examples:
The Matrix: The lobby scene. Neo walks in and blows away a group of rent-a-cops and then shoots up a bunch of SWAT mooks. None of these guys knew what was going on or deserved it (yeah the SWAT guys had heavy weapons, but that doesn't make them evil). And yes I understand they could have turned into Agents, but really, with any piece of equipment avalible to Neo he couldn't think of something better than shooting everything.

The Incredibles: "When everyone is special- no one is." To me that line reads as, "We are superior so the rest of you shouldn't even try, and just do as we say." I mean the villain was a normal person that invented his way to power and had to be defeated by the perfect family of Ubermensch. And he wasn't just shown as evil, but the whole movie made the point that anyone who tried to work there way up was "bad".

[Lusankya]

Taken. Alright, so I got that Liam Neeson was pissed because his daughter was kidnapped. I just got the feeling that he could have killed only half as many people and still rescued his daughter. On top of that, he ran into about a gajillion other girls who had been kidnapped, and he didn't bother doing anything at all to help any of them, except for the one who had his daughter's jacket and could thus provide him with information.

Also, the story was basically Little Red Riding Hood, except instead of the moral being "Don't go into the Russian woods alone, children, because you'll get eaten by a wolf", the moral was "Don't leave America, children, because eeeevil foreigners are eeeevil and weak".

[Zim]

Tom Cruise's character in the Last Samurai was a pretty sanctimonious cunt.

Hey, I'm gonna be pissed off at my captain for butchering Indians and turn right around and be OK with Samurai butchering their own people because it's they were only doing their fucking duty.

Here's something more eloquent than I wrote.
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net ... tty_movies

[phongn]

The Incredibles: "When everyone is special- no one is." To me that line reads as, "We are superior so the rest of you shouldn't even try, and just do as we say." I mean the villain was a normal person that invented his way to power and had to be defeated by the perfect family of Ubermensch. And he wasn't just shown as evil, but the whole movie made the point that anyone who tried to work there way up was "bad".

I never really saw it that way - but read the movie as an attack on mediocrity and uniformity. I also don't see how the movie showed anyone working their way up was "bad," either.

[xerex]

The Incredibles: "When everyone is special- no one is." To me that line reads as, "We are superior so the rest of you shouldn't even try, and just do as we say." I mean the villain was a normal person that invented his way to power and had to be defeated by the perfect family of Ubermensch. And he wasn't just shown as evil, but the whole movie made the point that anyone who tried to work there way up was "bad".

umm doesnt the villain say that line ? the guy is basically angry at being rejected at as a sidekick when he was kid and decided to seek revenge by destroying not only the superheroes but also the concept of of the superhero.

mind u I dont think his statement is even logical. even if everone got his super tech some would simply be better skilled at handling it and thus be special.

also he didnt invent his way to power, he sold weaponry to the highest bidder. He was a high tech arms dealer.

to me the message of the movie was you shouldnt have to hide your specialness to blend into the crowd. Be yourself and be proud of it.

[Kanastrous]

Anakin Skywalker. He isn't anything special, other than by virtue of just happening to be born with a bunch more midichlorions, than the rest of us. Big freakin' whoop; he made it down the birth canal; surely an achievement for the record books. Then follows that feat up with a life squandered on foolish simple-minded adolescent pursuit of power in the hopes of being able to mold the world so he can avoid personal pain.

At least, I think Anakin was supposed to be some kind of hero, at least, for a little while. The way the story is presented, it's not particularly clear.

[Zac Naloen]

I don't think Anakin is a hero.

It's a story of the young innocent falling for the lust of power and eventually redeeming himself with the help of the stories true hero.

He is supposed to be a wanker, if he was perfect his fall from innocence wouldn't make any sense.

The hero is his son who redeems him.

[Kanastrous]

Fair enough.

It's true that in the sense of Carpenter's Hero, Jar-Jar Binks is the only character who comes close to fitting the bill...

[speaker-to-trolls]

The Incredibles: "When everyone is special- no one is." To me that line reads as, "We are superior so the rest of you shouldn't even try, and just do as we say." I mean the villain was a normal person that invented his way to power and had to be defeated by the perfect family of Ubermensch. And he wasn't just shown as evil, but the whole movie made the point that anyone who tried to work there way up was "bad".

I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on this, I get kind of uneasy about The Incredibles because it's a superb film, great animation, plotting, voice acting, humour and characterisation but on the other hand you've got, well, that. I think, as Xerex said, the primary point wasn't against ordinary people trying to work their way up, but against extraordinary people having to bring themselves down, but it does have the unfortunate side effect of casting the ordinary guy rising up in the world through hard work and ingenuity (and arms dealing, although no one minds when Iron Man does it) as the psychotic villain.

That said I don't actually have a problem with any of the characters, the characters are all awesome.

[Darth Wong]

I don't recall any of the Incredibles actually saying that Buddy was wrong to try and make technologies which could enhance everyone. It was just that his entire motive for doing so was to bring down the heroes, who themselves never intended to do anything but help others.

[Ryushikaze]

The Incredibles: "When everyone is special- no one is." To me that line reads as, "We are superior so the rest of you shouldn't even try, and just do as we say." I mean the villain was a normal person that invented his way to power and had to be defeated by the perfect family of Ubermensch. And he wasn't just shown as evil, but the whole movie made the point that anyone who tried to work there way up was "bad".

I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on this, I get kind of uneasy about The Incredibles because it's a superb film, great animation, plotting, voice acting, humour and characterisation but on the other hand you've got, well, that. I think, as Xerex said, the primary point wasn't against ordinary people trying to work their way up, but against extraordinary people having to bring themselves down, but it does have the unfortunate side effect of casting the ordinary guy rising up in the world through hard work and ingenuity (and arms dealing, although no one minds when Iron Man does it) as the psychotic villain.

That said I don't actually have a problem with any of the characters, the characters are all awesome.

Syndrome isn't the villain because he's a "I worked my way up from the bottom with my intellect, and hey, nifty tech" character, specifically, that he's using his intellect and tech for revenge. Stark is a hero because he uses his technology and intellect to try and make the world better (even if in the movie it's just fixing his own unwitting damages thus far).

I don't think that Syndrome getting his power via artificial means was really at all relevant except to show that his fixation was on the power of the heroes, not on the heroism.

[Darth Wong]

Tom Cruise's character in the Last Samurai was a pretty sanctimonious cunt.

Hey, I'm gonna be pissed off at my captain for butchering Indians and turn right around and be OK with Samurai butchering their own people because it's they were only doing their fucking duty.

Most people think there's a difference between slaughtering defenseless women and children, and killing armed soldiers (armed with superior weapons, in fact).

[Big Orange]

Syndrome's lack of superhuman ability was not what made him bad but his selfish obsessions and abuse of technology at the expense of everyone.

I second the opion that Neo and his Zion compatriots were dicks in gunning down those hapless cops and soldiers, who were not willing henchmen like most other movie cannon fodder, but ignorant government employees just doing their jobs.

[Anguirus]

I really like the Princess Bride, but Westley sure acts like a dick to Buttercup for awhile. Plus, there's the squicky implication that he routinely slaughters people as Dread Pirate Roberts (though I think in the book there was a section about how everyone just surrendered because they were so afraid, and he made every ship think that they were the only ones he ever spared. Uh-huh.)

Inigo and Fezzik were by far the best characters.

[Isolder74]

I don't recall any of the Incredibles actually saying that Buddy was wrong to try and make technologies which could enhance everyone. It was just that his entire motive for doing so was to bring down the heroes, who themselves never intended to do anything but help others.

He was also bad for purposely hurting people so he could do his little I am hero show. Look at the chene with the gas truck. He saves the baby then simply tosses the truck behind him into the crowd!

The point of the Dash scene was the fact that it had been declared against the law for them to use their powers and Dash is resenting that.

[Admiral Valdemar]

Syndrome's lack of superhuman ability was not what made him bad but his selfish obsessions and abuse of technology at the expense of everyone.

I second the opion that Neo and his Zion compatriots were dicks in gunning down those hapless cops and soldiers, who were not willing henchmen like most other movie cannon fodder, but ignorant government employees just doing their jobs.

What were they meant to do? Ask them nicely to step aside while they fight against computer programs implemented by the machine overlords to keep the average meatbag under the impression they still live in the 21st century Earth prior to all hell breaking loose?

It would've made a shite movie, if anything.

[Ted C]

I really like the Princess Bride, but Westley sure acts like a dick to Buttercup for awhile. Plus, there's the squicky implication that he routinely slaughters people as Dread Pirate Roberts (though I think in the book there was a section about how everyone just surrendered because they were so afraid, and he made every ship think that they were the only ones he ever spared. Uh-huh.).

I always took that to mean that if you surrendered, he took your cargo and let you go, but if you fought, he killed every last one of you (then took your cargo).

[CmdrWilkens]

Kingdom of Heaven yeah I've mentioned it a few times recently but while I get where they were taking Bloom's character it doesn't mean I don't have to dislike his overmoralising about being fair to Guy. Jeremy Iron's nailed it in pointing out that certainly it would be evil to allow for Guy to be executed but not nearly so evil as to subject thousands of soldiers and tens of thousands more civilians to possible death and destruction because of the policies Guy would certainly pursue. I understan the absolutist stand that Bloom has to be true to his own moral conscience but at the same time its a very thin line to hold against everything that is almsot certain to occur not in the least of which is that Guy was certainly, if not in a way that could be proven, guilty of crimes against the crown and peace.

Now that said a lot of the rest of Bloom's character's journey is very well done and certainly is something I wish more folks had seen even granted the historical contrivances neccessitated to create the love story. That and the amazing fucking job of playing Saladin by Ghassan Massoud.

[Thanas]

^Did you watch the director's cut by any chance? That enhances the movie even more.

[Imperial Overlord]

^Did you watch the director's cut by any chance? That enhances the movie even more.

Watching the director's cut reveals just what a horrible travesty the theatrical cut was. Big important subplots that have direct affects on the characters and their decisions? Who the fuck needs to keep those in a movie? Cut them out.

[Thanas]

^Did you watch the director's cut by any chance? That enhances the movie even more.

Watching the director's cut reveals just what a horrible travesty the theatrical cut was. Big important subplots that have direct affects on the characters and their decisions? Who the fuck needs to keep those in a movie? Cut them out.

Same thing happened to Troy, although the overall quality still leaves something to be desired. I wonder what goes on in the mind of american editors these days.

Another case in point: Pride&Prejudice - butchered by the ending in the US version. The European version has far superior editing.

[Sea Skimmer]

Most people think there's a difference between slaughtering defenseless women and children, and killing armed soldiers (armed with superior weapons, in fact).

Yea they were killing soldiers… so they could maintain medieval lifestyle which gave them the right to kill commoners for the slightest insult, while they lived on stipends paid for by taxes on those commoners and basically had to do nothing at all. Quite the noble cause hun?

Anyway the movie is utterly disconnected from real life, reality is the very first act in the Satsuma Rebellion was a string of rebel attacks on government arsenals to carry off modern weapons. Both sides fielded large numbers of Samurai and used swords in major battles, but it was primarily a gunpowder war for all involved, Samurai or not. The rebels even captured several government steamers armed with rifled shell firing guns and used them in a whole string of minor naval battles no one’s ever heard of.

[The Guid]

Transformers. The lead guy is far more concerned for himself and getting laid than anything or anyone else.

What a dick.

[Plekhanov]

The guy from Gladiator, he's a top ranking general in an imperialistic army who's made a living invading places, looting them and enslaving the inhabitants. Why exactly am I supposed to feel sorry for him when he gets a taste of what he's been inflicting upon others for all these years?

[CmdrWilkens]

The guy from Gladiator, he's a top ranking general in an imperialistic army who's made a living invading places, looting them and enslaving the inhabitants. Why exactly am I supposed to feel sorry for him when he gets a taste of what he's been inflicting upon others for all these years?

Because he did it in the name of civilization

Anyway I'm going to add a second for Transformers. He is more concerned with not looking like an idiot than he is in actually doing anything productive.