Drunken Women Nearly Run Over By Subway

[FSTargetDrone]

Short story, a woman in Boston was "standing" at the edge of a subway platform, swaying back and forth and then falls onto the tracks as a train is approaching. Other people on the platform saw what was happening and waved at the train. The operator managed to stop the train with its front edge just over the woman, though it didn't strike her.



Here is a longer video without any sound.



I don't want to think about what it looks like when the person IS run over...

She's fortunate that the train wasn't going full bore and that she didn't stay sprawled across the tracks.

Don't be drunk at a train station.

[McC]

You can see her foot tap the third rail just before she goes completely still for a few seconds. I have a sneaking suspicion that she got a major shock, causing her to muscles to lock up for a bit, which contributed to her inability to get out of there.

This was all over the news here yesterday.

[Fleet Admiral JD]

Gotta love the T. I'm surprised that the conductor was able to stop; those Orange, Blue, and Red Line trains tend to fly into their stations, whereas the Green Line trains take it a little slower.

[McC]

Gotta love the T. I'm surprised that the conductor was able to stop; those Orange, Blue, and Red Line trains tend to fly into their stations, whereas the Green Line trains take it a little slower.

Green line trains don't tend to be in sunken troughs; they tend to be on the same plane as the passengers. So, higher risk of impact by default.

[FSTargetDrone]

You can see her foot tap the third rail just before she goes completely still for a few seconds. I have a sneaking suspicion that she got a major shock, causing her to muscles to lock up for a bit, which contributed to her inability to get out of there.

This was all over the news here yesterday.

I want to know how someone as thoroughly plastered as she seemed to be was even able to get as far as she did. I wonder how many times she fell down getting to the platform.

In the state she was in, it may have been better to stay on the ground than attempt to get up. You can see the other commuters wanted to try and reach down, but it would have been crazy to go down there. The older man on the end of the platform is brushed by the lead car as it is as he tries to flag down the train operator.

[aerius]

Do the subway stations down there have some sort of emergency stop button for the trains?
Here in Toronto, all the subway stations have an emergency button which will supposedly stop the trains in case someone falls on the tracks. They're labeled to do so but I've never seen one get used yet.

[McC]

Do the subway stations down there have some sort of emergency stop button for the trains?
Here in Toronto, all the subway stations have an emergency button which will supposedly stop the trains in case someone falls on the tracks. They're labeled to do so but I've never seen one get used yet.

In Canada, people are polite. In Boston, you'd get a jackass hitting this button all the time.

[Broomstick]

Chicago subways and trains all have an emergency stop mechanism. Oddly enough, there doesn't seem to be a problem with jackasses using them without reason. I suspect peer pressure (i.e. fellow commuters being annoyed at false alarms and resulting delays who administer "street justice") is a major factor.

However, emergency stops only work if a person with access to them actually sees there is a problem on the tracks.

Situations like this is the reason public intoxication is illegal in most places - it's not just a drunk putting herself into danger, it's that other citizens might endanger themselves attempting to save her.

[Starglider]

The London Underground is in the process of installing glass walls on all the platforms, with doors that only open once the train is present and lined up correctly. I assume this is enabled by modernised control electronics that ensure the train stops within an inch or so of the doors. Aside from the public safety aspect, there's the fact that each accident (or suicide) of this type causes huge delays.

[FSTargetDrone]

Situations like this is the reason public intoxication is illegal in most places - it's not just a drunk putting herself into danger, it's that other citizens might endanger themselves attempting to save her.

Imagine if she had been in contact with the live rail as she scuttled around on the ground between the rails in her stupor as someone reached down to pull her up. There could have possibly been multiple electrocutions.

[Broomstick]

I was at a train station in Chicago when another person waiting for the train had an epileptic seizure, fell down, and likewise almost caused an accident. Of course, it wasn't his fault he had epilepsy. But I'd like to see a system that would help prevent people from being run over, whether drunk, seizing, slipping on ice, or whatever. That was on an elevated train - we were not only worried about him being run over by a train, we were also concerned that he might wind up falling off the viaduct which was about two stories about the street in that location.

Unfortunately, some of Chicago's train stations date back to the late 19th Century and renovating them in that manner might be difficult and expensive.

[Starglider]

Unfortunately, some of Chicago's train stations date back to the late 19th Century and renovating them in that manner might be difficult and expensive.

I don't think it's technically that difficult. Many of the London Underground stations I mentioned were built in the 1920s -it looks like they just bolted the glass wall and automatic doors onto the concrete platform. While I'm sure it's fairly expensive, the accident risk is presumably proportional to how busy the station is (and particularly high for stations near bar/club rich areas), so you could dramatically cut the risk by upgrading a small fraction of the stations. OTOH if most of the routes pass through those stations, then most of the trains will need upgrading with whatever tech they use to make them stop lined up perfectly with the doors.

[Stark]

It'd be pretty simple to install shoulder-high barriers at any station in Brisbane, but I believe most of the accidents here involve people illegally crossing the tracks and not station safety.

[CmdrWilkens]

Unfortunately, some of Chicago's train stations date back to the late 19th Century and renovating them in that manner might be difficult and expensive.

I don't think it's technically that difficult. Many of the London Underground stations I mentioned were built in the 1920s -it looks like they just bolted the glass wall and automatic doors onto the concrete platform. While I'm sure it's fairly expensive, the accident risk is presumably proportional to how busy the station is (and particularly high for stations near bar/club rich areas), so you could dramatically cut the risk by upgrading a small fraction of the stations. OTOH if most of the routes pass through those stations, then most of the trains will need upgrading with whatever tech they use to make them stop lined up perfectly with the doors.

Its still a rather significant capital cost. I don't know how dense Chicago is but in DC after we had a rash of Death by Train suicides (and one incident of a teen playing chicken failing to win) somebody started looking in to what it would take to install roughly 120,000 linear feet of plexiglas or other similar material then budget for its recurrent replacement...it ain't a cheap number and the system is already strapped for cash to buy rail cars that don't fold like accordians on impact.

[Broomstick]

Unfortunately, some of Chicago's train stations date back to the late 19th Century and renovating them in that manner might be difficult and expensive.

I don't think it's technically that difficult. Many of the London Underground stations I mentioned were built in the 1920s -it looks like they just bolted the glass wall and automatic doors onto the concrete platform. While I'm sure it's fairly expensive, the accident risk is presumably proportional to how busy the station is (and particularly high for stations near bar/club rich areas), so you could dramatically cut the risk by upgrading a small fraction of the stations. OTOH if most of the routes pass through those stations, then most of the trains will need upgrading with whatever tech they use to make them stop lined up perfectly with the doors.

The problem is that most Chicago train station are not subway, they are elevated. Some stations are narrow wooden platforms sitting between train train tracks. I'm talking about a wood platform less than two meters wide, with a minimal clearance between platform and train, on a viaduct just wide enough to accommodate the tracks as they are at present. Engineering such a barrier would be difficult as narrowing the platform would make it difficult for people to pass by each other and walk safely, but simply adding it to the external edge of the platform would require physically moving the track to accommodate it, which would require rebuilding the supporting viaduct from the ground up.

In some cases, these pass between buildings allowing for clearance about the width of one's hand. In those cases, one would have to carve into the buildings to put such barriers in place. (The Pink Line actually goes through a building in the Rush-Presbytian-St.Luke's medical center, but in that case the building was built around the train tracks, which predated it by decades) Or close the station entirely, but in such areas of the city there may be no place to accommodate the necessary space for a kilometer or two in either direction.

Of course, not all elevated platforms are so space restricted, but those that are actually are more narrow and cramped than any subway station I've ever seen. It's not a matter of adding a barrier to such a station, it would require complete remaking from the ground up.

The system is slowly being renovated and wherever possible stations are being made wider and safer, but in some cases stations would have to be eliminated entirely to reduce the hazard. As fatal falls seldom occur in the city itself there is not the social pressure to do this. Oddly enough, MOST fatal train vs. pedestrian accidents in the greater Chicago area occur in the suburbs which typically have much more extensive gates and signals. Then again, most of their stations are grade-level, which seem more hazardous despite the safety systems. I'd argue that it would save more lives to add such barriers to the suburban rail system rather than the city rail system, since it's in the suburbs we have the greatest number of accidents.

[Fleet Admiral JD]

Gotta love the T. I'm surprised that the conductor was able to stop; those Orange, Blue, and Red Line trains tend to fly into their stations, whereas the Green Line trains take it a little slower.

Green line trains don't tend to be in sunken troughs; they tend to be on the same plane as the passengers. So, higher risk of impact by default.

There again, the way the trains are designed--at least, the newer ones with the flat-face glass on the front, make it easier for the conductors to see the passengers, since the trains are shorter than the Red/Blue/Orange line trains.

In Canada, people are polite. In Boston, you'd get a jackass hitting this button all the time.

I actually had to use one of the emergency buttons aboard a train once--Green Line conductor took off, and an elderly gent cracked his head open. No one else had any fucking clue that the emergency buttons existed. Thank God his wife was there to put pressure on the wound so I could talk to the conductor, who sounded worried as hell.

[Starglider]

I'm talking about a wood platform less than two meters wide.. Engineering such a barrier would be difficult as narrowing the platform would make it difficult for people to pass by each other and walk safely.

And these are high traffic stations? I didn't realise it was that bad; I guess I should take the 'US public transport is horrible' comments more seriously. My experience of it is mostly the Washington DC metro, which I guess is non-typical.

[Broomstick]

Busy, yes - during morning and afternoon commuting times people often wind up waiting on the stairs leading to the platform because there's no room left on the platforms themselves.

The DC metro was build after the mid-1970s, benefiting from the progress made on transit safety and crowd control that had been accumulated up to that point. The train stations in Chicago I mention were built in the 1920's and earlier.

Also keep in mind that not ALL Chicago train stations are on that level. Some are very modern with wide platforms and various other features. Heck, some are almost palatial. Particularly those serving the airports and the downtown areas, which are the ones the tourists and visitors see.

The narrow wooden platforms are in lower class neighborhoods and use by residents and those who work for a living. These stations are not seen or used by the tourists and visitors. This sort of thing I rather typical of a pattern I've observed since the 1990's in Chicago, where the city spends lavishly to upgrade what is seen by those passing through but what is actually used by the residents and worker bees is neglected or even unsafe. Well, there are Mayor Daley's priorities all over, and yet the people keep voting him back into office.

If you come to Chicago the airport and Loop transit stations will be much like the ones you saw in DC. Well, the elevated Loop stations have a definite feel of pre-WWII (because they are - portions of the Loop elevated actually date back to 1890) but even those have wide platforms and ample room, areas sheltered from the weather, and so forth.

[Broomstick]

Here is an image of the Chicago train. Note the width of the supporting structure for the tracks, which really is just wide enough and no more. It also shows the size of the wooden platform (in this case, the platforms flank the train). You're only seeing the narrowest part of the platform - about half the length of this station the platform is about twice as wide as what is shown here, but it gives an idea of how narrow a strip people might be expected to stand on.



This next image is a relatively narrow (though not the narrowest) wooden platform station that illustrates some of the problem. This station serves as a switching point for 3 train lines and is actually comprised of two such platforms. Note the blue stripe on the edge - that is a post-1995 improvement that not only provides a visual reminder to stay back from the edge but also has improved traction. It also protects the edge of the wooden platform - prior to the addition of such strips the wood, over time, would start to deteriorate and crumble. It is a large image so I am providing a link rather than an embed:

http://cdn-write.demandstudios.com/uplo ... /63581.jpg

The canopy style, by the way is typical of stations between between 1900-1910. This was designed and built a century ago with very different safety standards.


Here is narrow platform from the west side (green line Harlem station)



Note that upgrades have been made to these stations, in some cases wood being replaced with more durable materials, anti-skid strips added, visual markers, and so forth so they are safer than they were, but if these train lines were being built today they would be much, much different than what you see here.