NFL Football Thread

CarsonPalmer · Post by **CarsonPalmer** » 2007-01-16 11:29am

I did not see the video. All I saw was Tomlinson storm off the field past three Patriots who tried to shake his hand. Its odd to see an NFL game get that chippy.

I can't blame the Chargers defeat on Marty. I simply can't. I don't see anything he did wrong. Unless I'm missing something, they simply got beat, albeit hurt by some baaad bounces.

Falkenhayn · Post by **Falkenhayn** » 2007-01-16 03:59pm

CarsonPalmer wrote:I did not see the video. All I saw was Tomlinson storm off the field past three Patriots who tried to shake his hand. Its odd to see an NFL game get that chippy.

I can't blame the Chargers defeat on Marty. I simply can't. I don't see anything he did wrong. Unless I'm missing something, they simply got beat, albeit hurt by some baaad bounces.

If you get NFL Network, they run the clip on All Access. There is very clearly someone in a Patriots jersey doing the Merriman on the Charger's logo. Then LT goes "To have a word" and is corralled by three Patriots.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2007-01-16 04:15pm

Patrick Degan wrote:Failing to convert and turning the ball over on their own 35 hands New Orleans another easy score for dead certain. Punt the ball, and you lose. Hand the ball to a Saints team already well in FG range, and you lose. Again, this was a situation where there really was no good choice to make. As it was, the Eagles defence had kept McAllister to 32 yards total for the fourth quarter —less than half the Saints' rushing yards of the third quarter alone, so the New Orleans offence was getting tired. And as for the "lousy run-defence all season" argument, New Orleans is not that much better against the run (23rd in the league) than Philadelphia (26th) —that also is our biggest weakness. It was a vanishingly thin hope at best, but so would going for it on 4th-and-15 had been.

McAllister's numbers in the fourth are misleading because the Saints only had three drives, the first of which was a three and out with all pass plays, the second ended in a fumble (McAllister had 19 yards on six carries and two first downs), and the third was the last drive where McAllister gained 14 yards on three carries before New Orleans knelt on the ball. Weird playcalling, a turnover, and time expiring had more to do with slowing down McAllister than the Eagles defense did.

Both teams were about evenly matched in strengths and weaknesses. The plain fact is that New Orleans was able to go to the well one time more than Philadelphia but that game could have gone either way. Indeed, Philadelphia was in a better 4th quarter position this past Saturday than in the previous matchup with the Saints when we played ball-control for the last eight minutes of that game and closed for the winning FG at 0:03.

Oh, no doubt, that game could have gone the other way and we shouldn't have been in that fourth and fifteen in the first place. The Eagles left at least two touchdowns out on the field: one was a Brian Westbook dropped pass in the third quarter where he had nothing but 38 yards of empty space between him and the goal line, and the other was the drive that stalled on the NO 4 in the fourth. Who the hell calls a screen pass on third and less than one on the four yard line? Westbrook off left, Westbook off right, Buckhalter up the middle, QB sneak, throw to the end zone, any of those would have been acceptable because barring a turnover, even if they fail you still have fourth and inches. Fat Andy calls the play which puts us at fourth and three instead. And that's before you wonder what would have happened if Shaun Andrews hadn't gotten hurt and we hadn't had a rookie in at guard on 4th and 10. 1st and 10 at the NO 36 is a whole different situation from 4th and 15 at the PHI 39.

Of course, if Brees doesn't pitch that ball over Reggie Bush's head, New Orleans probably scores a touchdown on that drive and the game is over. That's football. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to wallow in my own misery for a few months, until I believe in the Phillies just enough to have my heart broken by them, too.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2007-01-18 11:42pm

You want an example of truly stupid play-calling, I can point to the game in which the Saints almost had their first winning season and their first playoff shot in 1983 in the final game against the Los Angeles Rams: late fourth quarter, the Saints are driving towards the L.A. red zone, it's third down with only a few yards to go for the first —and Bum Phillips decides that's the time to go for a field goal instead of trying for first down. I can't remember if the kick missed or not. All I remember is that I was screaming at the TV at that point. We never got the ball back and the Rams instead kicked the winning field goal as the clock was winding down.

That burned worse than the year we went 1-15.

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2007-01-19 12:45am

CarsonPalmer wrote:I can't blame the Chargers defeat on Marty. I simply can't. I don't see anything he did wrong. Unless I'm missing something, they simply got beat, albeit hurt by some baaad bounces.

Chokenheimer wasted two timeouts. The first time, when McCree fumbled and it was obviously a fumble, he challenged the play. Then he had another timeout right after the officials called an injury timeout. If the Chargers had kept just one of those, they most likely would have been kicking from closer than 55 yards.

The decision to go for it on 4th and 11 when in field goal range (they lost by 3) was stupid and so was giving Tomlinson only 9 touches in the 2nd half. What really chapped my hide was the stupid penalties, and that goes to coaching as far as I'm concerned. Winning coaches stress to their players the importance of not taking the bait when the opponent tries to start a fight -especially in the playoffs. The guy who starts it almost never gets caught because he makes damn sure nobody's watching when he spits, kicks, gouges, throws a punch or grabs your nuts.

What the Chargers need is a few veteran players who can lead by example, like when Jimmy Johnson brought Charles Haley, James Washington and Jay Novacek to a Dallas team made up of mostly new players.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2007-01-19 01:36am

There was an interesting comment to TMQ this week regarding that seemingly awful challenge. Too often, a team will make a mistake and the other team will immediately capitalize on it (ie the offense fumbling the ball away and the other team taking a successful shot down the field on their first play from scrimmage). By challenging the call, Schottenheimer effectively got about a five minute timeout. If a coach felt his team needed a lot of time to emotionally and physically regroup, challenging an obvious call could be worthwhile.

I'm not saying that it necessarily was in this case, but I think it's an interesting possibility to consider.

RedImperator · Post by **RedImperator** » 2007-01-19 03:45pm

Patrick Degan wrote:You want an example of truly stupid play-calling, I can point to the game in which the Saints almost had their first winning season and their first playoff shot in 1983 in the final game against the Los Angeles Rams: late fourth quarter, the Saints are driving towards the L.A. red zone, it's third down with only a few yards to go for the first —and Bum Phillips decides that's the time to go for a field goal instead of trying for first down. I can't remember if the kick missed or not. All I remember is that I was screaming at the TV at that point. We never got the ball back and the Rams instead kicked the winning field goal as the clock was winding down.

That burned worse than the year we went 1-15.

He kicked a field goal on third down? What the fuck. That's worse than the time Rich Kotite went for two in an extra point situation because the rain made the ink on his "when to go for two" chart run (we lost that game, of course--nobody remembers bad calls in games you won).

Elfdart · Post by **Elfdart** » 2007-01-19 10:37pm

Howedar wrote:There was an interesting comment to TMQ this week regarding that seemingly awful challenge. Too often, a team will make a mistake and the other team will immediately capitalize on it (ie the offense fumbling the ball away and the other team taking a successful shot down the field on their first play from scrimmage). By challenging the call, Schottenheimer effectively got about a five minute timeout. If a coach felt his team needed a lot of time to emotionally and physically regroup, challenging an obvious call could be worthwhile.

I'm not saying that it necessarily was in this case, but I think it's an interesting possibility to consider.

When Marty found out he wasn't fired, he admitted he was just grasping at straws. The 5-minute timeout is something Mike Martz used to do, but mostly early in games. If it's close and late, you're better served by keeping them if possible.

RedImperator wrote:He kicked a field goal on third down? What the fuck. That's worse than the time Rich Kotite went for two in an extra point situation because the rain made the ink on his "when to go for two" chart run (we lost that game, of course--nobody remembers bad calls in games you won).

Kicking on 3rd can be a good idea if you are close. If the holder fucks up (or the snapper), he can just fall on it and they can try again. I'll bet Bill Parcells wishes he had ordered a field goal on third down a couple of weeks ago.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2007-01-21 03:47pm

That was THE WORST OFFICIATING I HAVE EVER SEEN IN ANY LEVEL OF FOOTBALL AT ANY TIME IN MY LIFE.

(Referring to the "fumble" on the NO kickoff return).

Cthulhuvong · Post by **Cthulhuvong** » 2007-01-21 04:06pm

All I have to say is:

Bears, drop your QB or I will drop him for you. Honestly, I will get a lead pipe and go to the game and break his legs. He cannot do anything. Get Grossman out! Get the other guy in!

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2007-01-21 04:45pm

Amateur hour on Soldier Field in the first half... three first quarter fumbles by the Saints should have sank them, but the Bears playing like Keystone Kops with their red zone offense keeps NO alive.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2007-01-21 04:50pm

Two fumbles, DGG. There were two. Believe it or not (the officials lean towards "not"), you cannot fumble when you are laying down on the ground with a defender touching you.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2007-01-21 04:58pm

Well, in any event:

Holy moly Reggie Bush.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2007-01-21 05:00pm

Yeah, apparently he's pretty good.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2007-01-21 05:46pm

Ladies and gentlemen, your Chicago Bears, NFC representatives for Super Bowl XLI.

Jason von Evil · Post by **Jason von Evil** » 2007-01-21 06:29pm

Colbert's going to have kittens. He said the other night that if Bears beat Saints, then there is no God.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2007-01-21 07:19pm

In related news, Rex Grossman is a Super Bowl quarterback. I'm going to go light myself on fire.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-01-21 07:26pm

Grossman is great when he's on. When he's off he's a fucking disaster, but he got the job done this season and helped get his team to the Superbowl so, whatever. I'm just glad the overhyped Saints got beat down. That 'Americas team' bullshit was wearing thin.

I'm pulling for the Colts because of my respect for Dungy, and the way he was treated by Tampa at the end of the 2001 season, which was just inexcusable.

Patrick Degan · Post by **Patrick Degan** » 2007-01-21 07:36pm

All due congratulations to the Bears, who pulled it off in what became a clutch situation. The missed FG attempt and the safety in the 3rd was the turning point.

Still a bit depressed over it, but on the other hand, the Saints have never risen so high before, and we keep getting a bit higher with each trip to the postseason.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2007-01-21 07:40pm

Pretty typical start here for the Colts, 14-3 and all that...

EDIT: No no, I forgot the INT return for a score. Now it's typical.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2007-01-21 08:24pm

Patrick Degan wrote:All due congratulations to the Bears, who pulled it off in what became a clutch situation. The missed FG attempt and the safety in the 3rd was the turning point.

Still a bit depressed over it, but on the other hand, the Saints have never risen so high before, and we keep getting a bit higher with each trip to the postseason.

Yeah, and they're only going to get better for a few years. There were quite a number of starting rookies, including of course Payton.

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2007-01-21 10:18pm

Prepare for the Manning Bowl...

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-01-21 10:24pm

Awesome, Dungy takes his long overdue trip to the Superbowl.

Great fucking game, too. I'f I'm lucky my bitch grandmother had a stroke watching the Patriots lose, and I've hit the trifecta!

Master of Ossus · Post by **Master of Ossus** » 2007-01-21 10:26pm

Tom "Mr. 'Clutch'" Brady threw an interception to end the game on the last drive. And Peyton Manning now owns the largest comeback in history.

Also, Belichick really is classless. He didn't even bother to shake hands with Manning after the game.

Flagg · Post by **Flagg** » 2007-01-21 10:35pm

Master of Ossus wrote:Tom "Mr. 'Clutch'" Brady threw an interception to end the game on the last drive. And Peyton Manning now owns the largest comeback in history.

Also, Belichick really is classless. He didn't even bother to shake hands with Manning after the game.

Yeah, he barely even acknowledged Dungy. And was it just me, or did Brady run off the field crying like a little bitch with a skinned knee?