Parents and religion

[Captain Cyran]

ARRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! My mother is quoting from the bible really loudly as she reads it, it is getting really annoying!!!

Anyway, what are the rest of your views upon parents and how most seem to push their religion upon their children? The family of a good friend of mine has actually threatened to disown him if he quits the Catholic church.

I find it to be stupid and pointless as the more they shove the religion down the teenagers throught the more likely they are to shy away from it. I myself am shying away from Christianity, it however is not due to my father (and he is a minister) it is due to my mother because she wants me to be the way she wants me to be, what I want be damned. Plus there are many things I disagree about with the church.

[Alyrium Denryle]

My father is like Jerry F(Bigotry multipled by 5 and minus about 60 IQ points) I used to buy into all that bullshit. Then my parents got divorced, my mother won custody, and we moved from Fairbanks Alaska to Mesa AZ. It was 3 years(I was 10 when the divorce was final) Before I began to think for myself. Now I am a gay Atheist.

[Darth Wong]

My wife's parents tried to shove their religion down her throat too. Every parent tends to want his kid to share his or her beliefs and values. Unfortunately, those values are cretinous and/or evil in some cases. If Hitler had children, he would have been absolutely livid if they were open-minded and kind-hearted toward Jews or blacks.

[Patrick Degan]

—is for somebody to try to shove it down your throat. That's the mistake my Catholic school made in my junior year, when they began to dragoon us into mass religious services about six times a year.

Helped no end to kill just about any and all religious impulses within me. I stopped even pretending by age 19.

[Durandal]

Mike, just out of pure curiosity, what beliefs have you raised your kids with? Or have you left them to come up with their own conclusions?

You don't have to answer, as I know the matter could be considered personal, but I was just curious.

[Darth Wong]

Mike, just out of pure curiosity, what beliefs have you raised your kids with? Or have you left them to come up with their own conclusions?

They're not old enough to be asking those kinds of questions yet. When they ask, I will answer honestly.

You don't have to answer, as I know the matter could be considered personal, but I was just curious.

They used to go to Sunday school, before my wife dumped her faith. The idea was that they would choose for themselves. I had no problem with this; I was confident that when the Sunday school people presented their mindless circular logic and I presented arguments, facts, and information about the world's religious diversity to my boys, I would win.

[TrailerParkJawa]

I dont see how religious parents can do anything but "push" their religion upon their kids. For a lot of religous people its not that big of a deal, because they are not frothing at the mouth fundies. It is the super fundamentalist, you will die if you dont believe types that are so harmful.

[Nick]

I dont see how religious parents can do anything but "push" their religion upon their kids. For a lot of religous people its not that big of a deal, because they are not frothing at the mouth fundies. It is the super fundamentalist, you will die if you dont believe types that are so harmful.

Parents can't do anything except teach their kids what they know. So if the parents don't know squat all about critical thinking how are they meant to pass it on to their kids?

I was lucky - my parents believe in God, but they also believe in primacy of conscience and thinking for yourself. So you end up with a family who recognise that these are very interesting questions, and that many things are going to come down to subjective experience and what helps a particular individual deal effectively with the world. Hell, I was talking to Dad yesterday about the morality of embryonic stem cell research - he has concerns about it, but they're rational concerns. They aren't the knee-jerk reactions of some Right-To-Lifers (it was actually my reaction to an article by that mob that started the discussion in the first place).

As my eldest sister put it, my parents came to realise that after adolescence, communication between parent and child is more important than anything else. Once the communication channels shut down, then reopening them again is likely to be damn near impossible. When the parents stop listening, then the relationship is likely to go to crap, no matter what issue forms the particular bone of contention.

The question is - does a son or daughter love their parents enough to try to help the parents recognise they have a problem? Or is it better to find a way to cut your losses and get the hell out?

[Lagmonster]

I was confident that when the Sunday school people presented their mindless circular logic and I presented arguments, facts, and information about the world's religious diversity to my boys, I would win.

Not a bad plan, as long as your presentation is clear. Children, even some young adults, often respond to the presentation itself, not the content. I won't be wanting die-hard religionists to have unsupervised time alone with my kids until they're old enough to ask the right kind of questions about what they're being told.

[Alyeska]

I am of the mind that introducing a young child into religon is nothing less then brainwashing. That is not to say it is intentional brainwashing (with the intent to harm), but that the parents want their child to be raised to the same beliefs. However I am a strong believer in the freedom of religon, and I believe that raising children in a religous enviroment is FAR from free. There is no choice, and invariably they child will become a near copy of their parents (that is not always the case though).

Here is how it ought to be. Parents should NOT teach their children about religon untill the child is old enough to understand it AND make a logical decision on the issue. They should be given a broad understanding of religon (and Athiesm and Agnosticism) so that they can make an educated decision.

As for my personal experiences... I was rather lucky growing up. My parents never took me to church untill I was 8 or 9 years old. I had a vague understanding of religon, and even believed in God, but I was not indoctrinated into religon. Even better, my parents openly encouraged me to watch scientific shows (I love the Discovery Channel). As a matter of fact my parents both are strong believers in science (they believe in Evolution and the sort) even though they are Christians. Things did indeed get odd though. At age 14 I started to doubt religon to a serious degree and did my own research. At 16 I told my parents I was an Athiest and it shocked them. While they encouraged my free thought, they seemed extremely disapointed in me. It seems they believe the faulty concept that morality can only be learned through religon, as such they forced me to attend church as long I as stayed at home.

[AdmiralKanos]

I was confident that when the Sunday school people presented their mindless circular logic and I presented arguments, facts, and information about the world's religious diversity to my boys, I would win.

Not a bad plan, as long as your presentation is clear. Children, even some young adults, often respond to the presentation itself, not the content. I won't be wanting die-hard religionists to have unsupervised time alone with my kids until they're old enough to ask the right kind of questions about what they're being told.

Exactly. That's why I went to Sunday School with them (an important aspect of my approach that I forgot to mention earlier). Nobody's going to indoctrinate my sons in any religious faith without my supervision. If somebody's selling myth as fact and trying to shovel that in front of my boys, I'm going to make sure I hear every single word, so I know what I'm dealing with. As Sun Tzu said, know your enemy as you know yourself, and you can never be defeated.

[Master of Ossus]

Actually, what Sun Tzu said more accurately translates into: "He who knows himself and his enemy will never in a hundred battles be at risk." The meaning is the same, though. And I am sure that you will have no trouble in dealing with those circular logic religious types. I like your approach to Sunday School. Perhaps my parents should have done that with me, but all I ended up picking up anyway from it was the stories. It was actually kind of a good thing, as knowing the Bible as mythology really helps with writing, and I never went until I was old enough to deal with them, so for me it wasn't much of an issue.

[Nick]

. . . but all I ended up picking up anyway from it was the stories. It was actually kind of a good thing, as knowing the Bible as mythology really helps with writing, and I never went until I was old enough to deal with them, so for me it wasn't much of an issue.

And it's not like there isn't a lot of wisdom to be found in many of the Christian denominations (The serenity prayer is one of my all-time favourite pieces of poetry). The only problem is filtering out all of the crap that tends to get served up along with the good stuff. (hmm, kinda like 'PG' television, really. . .)

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

I never really bothered to defy my parent's faith, but they weren't fundamentalists who were afraid of gays and non-Catholics, so I really didn't have much of a reason. As for if I ever have kids, they'll probably grow up Catholic, considering there aren't many non-Catholics where I live, and if I have kids, I'll let them take their own path when they become teens. As for Sunday School, I was in one as a kid, and it was less of a religous study session, and more of one hour of song and games. I really didn't like it.

[Durandal]

Exactly. That's why I went to Sunday School with them (an important aspect of my approach that I forgot to mention earlier). Nobody's going to indoctrinate my sons in any religious faith without my supervision. If somebody's selling myth as fact and trying to shovel that in front of my boys, I'm going to make sure I hear every single word, so I know what I'm dealing with. As Sun Tzu said, know your enemy as you know yourself, and you can never be defeated.

Oh, that's certainly an interesting way of doing it. Did you actively participate, or just sit there giving the teacher dirty looks the whole time? :D

[Darth Wong]

Exactly. That's why I went to Sunday School with them (an important aspect of my approach that I forgot to mention earlier). Nobody's going to indoctrinate my sons in any religious faith without my supervision. If somebody's selling myth as fact and trying to shovel that in front of my boys, I'm going to make sure I hear every single word, so I know what I'm dealing with. As Sun Tzu said, know your enemy as you know yourself, and you can never be defeated.

Oh, that's certainly an interesting way of doing it. Did you actively participate, or just sit there giving the teacher dirty looks the whole time?

No, I sat on the sidelines and observed (although I was sorely tempted to stand up and say something on occasion).

But later, on the way home, Matthew would ask questions like "Daddy, did that really happen?" And I would say "No, it's just a children's story, like Winnie the Pooh." He would smile and say "Can we watch Winnie the Pooh when we get home?" And I would say "yes", knowing that this simple conversation with his father was, for the time being, more than enough to erase any credibility from the story in his mind.

[beyond hope]

Whether it's conscious or not, we all want our kids to grow up believing the same things we do. I know how I'd feel if a child of mine became a fundamentalist: I'd wonder where I'd gone wrong raising them. My mom comments all the time on how she feels like she "failed" me because I'm not christian, and how she hopes I "come back to Jesus someday." I'd have to say that the odds of me spontaneously combusting are better.

[Darth Yoshi]

Whether or not we want to, our beliefs, experiences and views tend to guide or determine the path our children take. For example, my folks are are Chinese immigrants, raised in Communist China. As I understand it, the Communist party tried to discourage religion, and as a result, my folks aren't really religious, and definitely not Christian. So I've never been to church in my life, despite living my entire life in the US. From what I've seen on this board, it seems that I'm unique in that regard.

[His Divine Shadow]

My wife's parents tried to shove their religion down her throat too. Every parent tends to want his kid to share his or her beliefs and values. Unfortunately, those values are cretinous and/or evil in some cases. If Hitler had children, he would have been absolutely livid if they were open-minded and kind-hearted toward Jews or blacks.

Like Homer Simpson said "Kids are great, Apu. You can teach them to hate the things you hate"

[Lusankya]

One annoying thing is the way there doesn't seem to be a single boarding school that doesn't make the boarders attend church. Since quite a few of the girls who went to my boarding school grew up atheist, all it did was instil in them a strong hatred of churches, since they now associate them with boringness or (in one case) weirdness, wheras before they'd just look at a church and say "ooh! isn't that pretty."

I suppose the parents always have the option of not sending their children to these schools, but country public schools suck. In the school that I would have gone to had I not boarded, not one person passed Maths I. This included a girl who got As for her all her other subjects (which included Physics and Chemistry, not artsy subjects), so it obviously wasn't the pupils.

[Captain Cyran]

I got lucky. My dad is very accepting of people and religions (I have 4 Wiccan friends, 2 or 3 Jewish friends, 1 Muslim friend, 2 Atheist friends, 1 Agnostic friend). In terms of stuff like sunday school it's all discussion but none of them are fundamentalists and we have, many a time, had discussions which have covered many problems with the Christian religion. Most of what we talk about, is how we would react to things, what life is like, etc. and it is not very often that religion becomes a really big part of it.

However, one problem I have currently run into is that one of my friends is turning into a religous fundie, for the past month I have been trying to nicely push her away from it (I don't want to be too harsh, she's been a good friend for awhile now). But so far nothing is working too well, she even truely believes God talked to her through one of those Magic 8 Balls. That is what has recently gotten me very worried for her, and for the children I know she plans on having. Please, if any of you have ideas on what I can do PLEASE help.

[Mr. B]

Have her ask the 8 ball if god exists. It's a long shot but probably the only thing that will convince her. Or maybe not.


I remember my mothers futile attampts to send me to church. It's didn't really work though as I remember stopping believeing in god around the end of 6th grade, about the same time I actually understodd what the biology teacher was saying.

[Captain Cyran]

Have her ask the 8 ball if god exists. It's a long shot but probably the only thing that will convince her. Or maybe not.

She's not that stupid, She'll call it a fluke if it says no and say that it proves her point if it says yes, not to mention that there are more yes answers in that damned 8 ball then no.

[Raptor 597]

Yeah, it was one of the reasons I abondened creatonism, I may of ostayed if I got my own decision who knows....

[Lagmonster]

She's not that stupid, She'll call it a fluke if it says no and say that it proves her point if it says yes, not to mention that there are more yes answers in that damned 8 ball then no.

Clue: If she thinks an 8-ball is speaking for a god, she's not all right in the head. Does she display any obvious symptoms of emotional instability? Crying, frustration, outbursts for no reason? Does she have trouble focussing? Are there major problems in her life that would cause her to seek solace in something like that? People who turn to religion usually do so because they cannot find reassurance about the evils of reality within reality.

As for the 8-ball, you could set up a series of tests to prove that it's not capable of predicting anything. Of course, if she comes back with the old bible quote of 'thou shalt not put the lord thy 8-ball to the test', then you have a tad more work to do.