"There is no reason to accept the doctrines crafted to sustain power and privilege, or to believe that we are constrained by mysterious and unknown social laws. These are simply decisions made within institutions that are subject to human will and that must face the test of legitimacy. And if they do not meet the test, they can be replaced by other institutions that are more free and more just, as has happened often in the past."
-Noam Chomsky
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."
-Noam Chomsky
A foundation for truth must be created with logic and rationality. Noam Chomsky, is a man who does this with near perfection. Examining politics, media, and the control of the Elite, he has used percise rational and logical examination to come to the conclusion that, all is not what it seems. That is that our ideals of freedom, equailty, liberty and justice, have been superceded and replaced by contol, subversion, inequailty, and injustice. At the hands of an inherently corrupt Capitalist system.
For, those who have anwsered yes and have something valuable to add, you are welcome add imput for disscusion. And calls for action.
For, those who said no but wish to know more, I'll post some helpful links tomorrow.
For, those who don't care and are ignorant. You are just that.
BTW, that last choice is for Azeron, John, ECC, and any other ignorant jingoist dumbshit, who refuses to adhere to reason, logic, and blatant fact. Also, i'm not really a commie so get over the immature ad hominem attacks.
If those in charge of our society-politicians, corporate executives and owners of press and television-can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves
-Howard Zinn
No, he doesn't use logic. He has pretty sentnces. Prove that this state of affairs exists. Prove that no real change has occured in who rules and how they control society. Prove that people who don't want to waste their time on this blithering idiot are ignorant and apathetic.
ph3@r the k3oot3 0n3z
I thought this was a capture the b33r mod?!
PS: Your entire post is also biased. Just because someone doesn't agree with you or support your political views doesn't make them an idiot, you moron.
PPS: And how productive is a discussion if everyone participating already agrees with you?
I believe in a sign of Zeta.
[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]
"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
Last edited by Resident Commie on 2002-07-26 07:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
If those in charge of our society-politicians, corporate executives and owners of press and television-can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves
-Howard Zinn
Resident Commie wrote:"There is no reason to accept the doctrines crafted to sustain power and privilege, or to believe that we are constrained by mysterious and unknown social laws. These are simply decisions made within institutions that are subject to human will and that must face the test of legitimacy. And if they do not meet the test, they can be replaced by other institutions that are more free and more just, as has happened often in the past."
-Noam Chomsky
"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."
Seems like a statment about the structure of governments to me, what has that got to do with "whats going on" in America?
-Noam Chomsky
A foundation for truth must be created with logic and rationality. Noam Chomsky, is a man who does this with near perfection. Examining politics, media, and the control of the Elite, he has used percise rational and logical examination to come to the conclusion that, all is not what it seems. That is that our ideals of freedom, equailty, liberty and justice, have been superceded and replaced by contol, subversion, inequailty, and injustice. At the hands of an inherently corrupt Capitalist system.
For, those who have anwsered yes and have something valuable to add, you are welcome add imput for disscusion. And calls for action.
For, those who said no but wish to know more, I'll post some helpful links tomorrow.
For, those who don't care and are ignorant. You are just that.
BTW, that last choice is for Azeron, John, ECC, and any other ignorant jingoist dumbshit, who refuses to adhere to reason, logic, and blatant fact. Also, i'm not really a commie so get over the immature ad hominem attacks.
The repetative nature of your posts is more telling of you, than the world you describe.
You are a victim of "southcentral LA Emergency room syndrome". Emergengy room personel see mostly young black and hispanic male youths, with gunshot wounds, during the peak of the gang wars. After a while, they begin to think that this is the norm, everywhere, rather than a local, disproportunate problem.
You see so much corruption, evil, and suffering in the western world, because that is what sells the most copy. "If it bleeds, it leads" is the buisness model. Do you honestly think that LESS coruption and suffering goes on in places you don't hear from, because the press is restricted?
If your answer is yes, than you are seeing the world through your anti western goggles. The most corruption and suffering that goes on in the world, goes on in piss poor, third world shitpot countries. Corruption is the norm, and expected way of life. Go to Mexico sometime, and get a traffic citation. See how long it takes the policeman to hint about a bribe.
This type of thing, (soliciting bribes) is the freak event in America, not the norm.Freak events get headlines.
Do you feel that aircraft fall from the sky on a regular basis? They do, but in a miles traveled VS accidents, it is the safest form of travel.
Does the western world have problems? Yes! In the number of people VS suffering and corruption index, the west is the best place to be in.
You remind me of a joke. A man goes into a psycologists office to be tested. The psyc shows him an ink blot. The man sees two people fucking. An other ink blot. He sees three people fucking. An other ink blot, more people fucking. One more ink blot, more pictures of people fucking. (You see where this is going) 40 pictures later, the psyc says, "You seem to be thinking about sex quite a bit." The man replies, "Your the one showing me the dirty pictures!"
What is the relavence of the joke, you ask?
Everywhere you look, you see the evil of the west, and corruption, and suffering.
When someone calls you on it, you claim we are clueless, or brainwashed.
After all, we are the ones showing you the dirty pictures.
You sir, have both an agenda, (socialism the cure all for the evils of capitalism, and the west in general) and issues. (You hate yourself, for the splendor and riches you don't feel that you, or any other westerner deserves.) You are right, you DON'T deserve to live as well as you do, as you spit in the face of those that provide you with the riches you couldn't live without.
You are also a self admitted nihilist. On of the most evil, and unproductive philosophies ever thought up. Nihilism always leads to selfish hedonism, (hooray for me, and to hell with the rest of the world) and miserable outlooks on life. The inevitable breakdown of law and order this thinking leads to, is fertile ground from which springs forth tyrrany. Or anarchy.
A nihilist doesn't understand the difference between pleasure, and happyness. Pleasure is easy, with sex and drugs. Then that isn't enough, and the jaded pallete is allways seeking the next, bigger thrill. The apetite for pleasure grows out of unhappyness, confused with pleasure.
I submit, that you have much pleasure in your life, and little, or no true happyness. If you do experience any happyness, it is the result of what is left of the things you profess to reject. The honest love, of your family and friends.
Since you reject the sacredness of human life, and human love, you are bitter.
It colors your word view. Typical of your kind, you assume that you have no bias, and you view is the only one for an"obective" oberver can have.
I have news for you. NO opinion is obective. It is not possible to have a view, without a point from which you are viewing from. There is NO SUCH THING as an outsiders point of view. ALL obervers are part of the event. Your hatred of the best in human nature, (that which is truely sacred) and embracing the worst of human nature, (hedonism, and the greed, corruption, that goes with it) that makes you want to smash the whole thing, and start from scratch. You have nothing to replace what you smash, you vandal.
Bitch bitch, bitch. Do YOU, RC, have anything posative to say about ANYTHING, other than the discredited, totalitarian, socialist society that only could exsist in your head, with "modified" human nature? Can you praise ANYTHING other than the works of people who believe as you do, and thus validate your "enlightened" viewpoint? Are you as truly miserble as you sound?
Do YOU, RC have any CONSTRUCTIVE remarks to make, or suggestions? Just how do you propose to lower the NET level of suffering in the world? All you do is complain.
Any FOOL can tear down, and critisise an exsisting work. The challenge is to make improvements, or come up with something better. (Not rehash FAILED social experiments!)
In short, if you said nothing negative, would you have anything to say at ALL?
Prove me wrong. Say something nice, about someone else, that doesn't agree with you. Show me that your warped philosphy of life hasn't leeched the last little bit of human spirit out of your overeducated pinhead.
Ask anyone who has children, a wife, and family, how can pleasure not bring happyness, and unselfish love, (while not directly pleasurable,) bring happyness, and contentedness, and serenity? They may not know how, but that it happens will be undisputable.
A sociopath has no sympathy, and empathy, and thinks they are weaknesses, that the majority share. (Because they limit his choices)Normal people think they are the key to true happyness, and see the sociopath as defective, missing a vital part.
After a fasion you are a sociopath. You can not conceive that others have traits that you lack. You are either a diffent person when not on the internet, (courage and vemon from the safety and distance of your keyboard) or you are one sad sorry son of a bitch.
Your reply should be interesting, from the point of view of pathology. Your style of useing the letter, and ignoring the spirit of the law, (or posting!) will show who and what you are. That and your redefining words to "prove" you, (and the tiny slivver who agreewith you) were right, and the rest of us, who don't agree, were fools.
On the off chance I'm wrong about you, I will in fact, be a winner, because the sum total of good in the world can never be enough. If you can do, or say something good, kind, or constructive, and MEAN what you say or do, the lives of all will be better. Not just yours.
Happyness is NOT, a zero sum game!
Hmmmmmm.
"It is happening now, It has happened before, It will surely happen again."
Oldest member of SD.net, not most mature.
Brotherhood of the Monkey
Fortunately, people like us never went through this "socialist phase" that occurs with most teens during high school or college. A lot of kids* these days seem to go through a period where they shout out "Fight the system!!" and "Down with the Evil Empire of the United States!!". Later on they grow out of it and end up voting Republican.
RC (and the author he's quoting) also seem to be unaware that it's the people in a society that are responcible for upholding the class structure, not some unseen authority or institution. They always want to blame someone other then themselves.
How typical.
*Funny of me using this term, as I'm only 20 myself. They all seem like kids to me.
I believe in a sign of Zeta.
[BOTM|WG|JL|Mecha Maniacs|Pax Cybertronia|Veteran of the Psychic Wars|Eva Expert]
"And besides, who cares if a monster destroys Australia?"
I went through the Ayn Rand objectiveist capitaliist uberlibertarian new romantisist phase my self. . Far less threatening to the status quo, but very annoying. I am 41, and sometimes people your age seem to be from an other planet. Then I talk with people like you, and realize that there is just as many bad and good ideas now as in my youth. You actualy seem to be wise beyond your years,unlike I.
The wheel turns, and now it is my turn to try and impart wisdom to the young, and be ignored by the unready, just as I ignored the elders of my time!
I am reminded of the words of Abrahan Simpson, talking to his teenage son Homer:
Homer,"Dad, your just not with it!"
Abraham, "I was with it, until they changed what IT was. Now what IT is, seems wierd and scary! And someday it will happen to YOU!"
I think you are judging these "kids", by the level of maturity displayed, not chronological age. I know men 10 years older than my self, still in high school, so to speak.
Hmmmmmm.
"It is happening now, It has happened before, It will surely happen again."
Oldest member of SD.net, not most mature.
Brotherhood of the Monkey
Haven't read ECC's post yet, but im sure it's going to be as amusing as ever. For now I will repond to Spanky.
RC (and the author he's quoting) also seem to be unaware that it's the people in a society that are responcible for upholding the class structure, not some unseen authority or institution. They always want to blame someone other then themselves.
True, this statement is absolutely true. Those who are ignorant will continue to be ignorant. I however have realized the reality of this deception. Seeing this deception either you don't recognize the current control system or you have been saturated in it so much that you have lost your will to change and accepted the apparent futility of the situation. This situation which I speak of is control and it can be seen if one wishes to see it.
We the people are responsible for our actions, and in a democracy we the people must be responsible and consequently in control. Not the Elite. This simple fact is that we as a population have been conditioned and trained by the rulers of this class structure or the Elite. And I see it as my responsibility to inform people of this truth. You cannot deny the facts of our subjugation. But only ask yourselves do the Ends really justify the Means.
"There is no reason to accept the doctrines crafted to sustain power and privilege, or to believe that we are constrained by mysterious and unknown social laws. These are simply decisions made within institutions that are subject to human will and that must face the test of legitimacy. And if they do not meet the test, they can be replaced by other institutions that are more free and more just, as has happened often in the past."-Noam Chomsky
If those in charge of our society-politicians, corporate executives and owners of press and television-can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves
-Howard Zinn
After a lot of assumptions about my personal life you paint me as an unloving nihilist commie. Which is most certainly not on all counts. Then you go on to state that I only care about my self and hate everyone and blame them for my misery.
That is about the farthest from the truth one can get. I am angry for a reason. And I keep debating this for a reason. And that is that we are too content with being fed lies and not active enough in the pursuit of truth.
First off,
Yes most of the world is a shit hole.
Should we not make it better?
Yes, corruption is prevalent in most governments.
Should we not stop it, elect new officials and write new laws?
In short, inaction is worse than any action even if its effectiveness is unproven.
Does the western world have problems? Yes! In the number of people VS suffering and corruption index, the west is the best place to be in.
Again, why is it the best place to be. Because we fucking took everything good from everywhere else. The US Empire just as strong and oppresive as the Romans.
"With unfailing consistency, U.S. intervention has been on the side of the rich and powerful of various nations at the expense of the poor and needy. Rather than strengthening democracies, U.S. leaders have overthrown numerous democratically elected governments or other populist regimes in dozens of countries ... whenever these nations give evidence of putting the interests of their people ahead of the interests of multinational corporate interests."
- Michael Parenti, political scientist, author
You are also a self admitted nihilist. On of the most evil, and unproductive philosophies ever thought up. Nihilism always leads to selfish hedonism, (hooray for me, and to hell with the rest of the world) and miserable outlooks on life. The inevitable breakdown of law and order this thinking leads to, is fertile ground from which springs forth tyrrany. Or anarchy.
A nihilist doesn't understand the difference between pleasure, and happyness. Pleasure is easy, with sex and drugs. Then that isn't enough, and the jaded pallete is allways seeking the next, bigger thrill. The apetite for pleasure grows out of unhappyness, confused with pleasure.
I submit, that you have much pleasure in your life, and little, or no true happyness. If you do experience any happyness, it is the result of what is left of the things you profess to reject. The honest love, of your family and friends.
Since you reject the sacredness of human life, and human love, you are bitter.
Since your basis is false your conclusions are also false. Nothing more to be said.
Bitch bitch, bitch. Do YOU, RC, have anything posative to say about ANYTHING, other than the discredited, totalitarian, socialist society that only could exsist in your head, with "modified" human nature? Can you praise ANYTHING other than the works of people who believe as you do, and thus validate your "enlightened" viewpoint? Are you as truly miserble as you sound?
I am promoting change while you are the one BITCHING.
Want something positive talk to your mommy.
Want something constructive go volunteer to do some charity work.
Donate money towards charities.
Vote for a third party.
Boycott corporations that break international law, or have unethical practices. (i.e. Taco Bell, McDonalds, Nike, ect.)
Protest corporate Globalization. http://www.globalexchange.org/
Protest the School of the Americas. http://www.soaw.org/new/
Advocate cival and social rights.
Do some research on Noam Chomsky.
Listen to alternate media, not controlled by companies. (such as CounterSpin http://www.webactive.com/cspin/)
There are plenty of ways to get involved and fight for change. You’re just unwilling to do so. SO GET OFF YOUR ASS AND DO IT. (By the way that was positive encouragement )
If those in charge of our society-politicians, corporate executives and owners of press and television-can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves
-Howard Zinn
To start, I am posative that you professed to be a Nihilist, because in one of you posts, you mentioned that although your web monicer was resident commie, you were not a comunist, but a nihilist. This stuck in my mind. One of those, "Ahh, I see now where he's coming from!" situations. I have searched this site and can not find the relavant post. This presents me with 3 possibilities.
1. My memory is incorrect. Highest probability. With that in mind, I give you a provisional PARTIAL apology, pending further review.
2. You have out and out LIED, and taken advantage of the Edit funtion, to remove that line from the board. Less likely, but quite possible, as I do not know the full range of options this forum gives us. Or your true character.
(To other members, is this checkable?)
3. X the unknown, the everpresent extra option.
The provisional is only partial, because I never accused you of being an unloving nihilist commie, only an unloving nihlist. Communism and Nihilism are mutualy exclusive, as the communist has faith in, and worships the State, as the corporeal embodiment of Society, which is his sacred object of worship.
You claiming I called you this, leads me to believe you are dishonest, (Option 2) or sloppy. (Option 1)
If you are not a nihilist, then your ignorance of what it means to BE a nihilist is understandable.
As to why we are the richest nation on earth. You see our wealth as a result of theft. I see it a result of good luck, good planning, and lot of hard work. The luck is the natural resourses in America. The good planning, is our system of government, and economics. It is NOT a coincidence that we are both the freest, politicaly and economicly, and the richest. We are the richest, BECAUSE we are the freest.
You see theft. Do you know the difference between honest profit, and fraud or theft?
We did push the natives out, 100 years or so ago. I had no say in the matter, nor did anyone now alive. I don't believe in the original sin concept, racial, or historical. I have no guilt about the evil done before I was born, or that I PERSONALY can't stop. The wealth you claim we stole, was not produced until well after the indigs were gone. Like since WWII.
The intervention you harp about, was in the cold war, against the very real threat of communism, a self admitted, expansionist totalitarian enemy.
Simply put, SURVIVAL is the single highest goal. You must be alive to win. You must be alive to have ideals.
I have looked through this site, and I have yet to see ANY post of yours, that isn't a slam on America. You are a johnny one note. Accusing the US government from being facistic at best, and evil at worst. You ARE the bitcher, and moaner.
Look throgh this site, and you will find I am only confrontational, and hostile, to you and Altoid Master. This is because I find your posts repugnant.
I didn't ask you to say something possative to fill my empty heart, but to see if you COULD do so. A test you failed miserably. Perhaps you didn't want to pass my test, like a small child who does the opposite of what he is told, to prove his independance. It would have been so easy, to shut me down hardcore. Don't play on the freeway.
You mixed venom, and implied insults with what passes as your list of some posative things to do. You could not resist.
As to your last points:
Do you feel that your posts on this web site do one whiff of good? Is your goal to"wake up the masses"?
If so I invite you to read the posts of ShaoLin. How many souls do you think he saved? 0
I am a Big Brother. The ones who work with children of single mothers, to mentor young men into manhood. (Not the Orwell kind)
I do not donate to charity, as the administrative overhead is just too hungry for my tastes. I donate my time, something infinitly more valuable, as there is only so much of it, and I don't know how much I have left in my "lifeforce bank acount."The payoff is much greater. I can point to one great thing I am doing with my life, besides producing more than I consume.
I don't vote for a third party, as it is a waste of my only one. The Loosertarians, and the GreenREDS, will never win any power worth mentioning, until they get a little closer to center.
I don't buy overpriced garbage that McFood, or the other Trendor mega corps. I live simply, and frugaly. To a point. I shop at Wallmart, because it is the most bang for the buck. I also shop at Trader Joes. I also use winblows, because, as of now, it is the best I can do. If you are using ANY computer, internet service provider, phone line, or for that matter electricity that you didn't generate your self, you see the futility of trying ot be 100% anti corporate.
Protest is like masterbation. It makes you feel good, but achieves nothing. In fact, when even the smallest fraction of the protesters throw rocks, or break windows, this is all the majority of us see on the news.This actualy hurts the cause, even if it's just.
Get up a pettition, start an initiative. Lobby your representatives. That is the way real change.
I am FOR corporate globalisation, with govermments to protect against fraud, theft, and civil rights violations.
There is NO SUCH THING as social rights. There are only individual rights. Society is a group of individuals. How does joining a group give you rights that you didn't have before you joined the group?
"Social rights" is a code word for states rights, that supercede individual right. Socialism.Government limiting the individuals rights.
Very similar to "economic justice", a code word for socialising the economy. Read that as more government controle of your rights.
I have read much of Dr. Nonothing Chimpsky, and find him to be just an other blathering overeducated leftist. Using words of ten sylables, or more, to state the obvious, which could be beter stated in smaller, more accurate ones. Or promoting leftism as the cure for human nature. There is a term called elegance, which means useing the smallest, simplest words and terms possible. The left often uses overly complicated, complex, polysylabolic syntax to hide the true meaning of what they say, for plausable deniability, or intelectual intimidation.
If you can't explain your point to a 12 year old, then you don't understand your own point, or have a hidden agenda.
I do listen to alternative media, talk radio, surf the web,and read corporate doublespeak. I'm talking to you, aren't I? (I have to grit my teeth, when I hear the moral relativism, and big lies both the far right, and far left both spout.)
You should heed your own advice, and do something. You have as much chance of converting others to your point of view here, as Shaolin has of "Saving" a "soul" here.
I would remind you, that while I have made errors, (and copped to them)I have never been told I need an aluminum foil deflector beany. I believe my credibility is much higher than yours, especially after your claim of US involvement in 9/11. (She was asking for it, the way she was dressed)
As to the ad hominun attack, you are either ignorant, or dishonest. I do not say that you are full of shit, therefore you are wrong, I say you are wrong, therefore you are full of shit.
Do you know the difference?
I do not think you are evil, therefore what you say is horrible, I say what you say is horrible, therefore you are evil.(advocating the "changing" of human nature, and more socialism in the world)
That you do not grasp this, or mistate this, makes me think you are stupid, or dishonest.
I am not polite to people I consider fools, which I'll admit I should work on.
Your constant accusations of my being brainwashed, ignorant, or foolish, (with the obvious implication that that you are immune to that which consumes me,) is condesending, and dishonest (Insult by implication, with plausable deniability, a classic passive agressive baby game) and pisses me off.
Is this clear enough for you?
Hmmmmmm.
"It is happening now, It has happened before, It will surely happen again."
Oldest member of SD.net, not most mature.
Brotherhood of the Monkey
. Far less threatening to the status quo, but very annoying. 
