Modern World STGOD Concept

[Jub]

I've decided to make Dreisgrond a bit larger of a player by upping my population to ~116 million people while leaving Versahinveld as a her less populated former breadbasket with slightly higher GDP than originally planned. Staying within my given range Dreisgrond has a national GDP of 4.66 billion and Versahinveld comes in below budget with 1.12 billion GDP.

[Steve]

You mean trillion, not billion, yes?

[Jub]

Yes.

[Force Lord]

I'd say that modern Granadia's population is around 60-70 million. Considering the Iberian Peninsula is home to around 55 million people in Earth, it's not too much of a stretch.

[Simon_Jester]

In real life the two countries have a combined GDP of about 1.65 trillion per year; you could push it to two trillion and still have a country recognizable as Iberia in my opinion.

[RogueIce]

Wait, what is this about Omnian colonies? That makes no sense. The Omnians never had much of a fleet and they can't even properly defend their own territories, they have zero ability to engange in colonialist adventures.

They're not Omnian colonies. The idea was, TRR wanted someone to attack his colonies at some point. His idea was Briton, but that may or may not have interfered with WWII too much. So I suggested that Omnia go after those colonies.

And...well, why not? Is the concept that Omnia at one point did try to have naval ambitions going to irrevocably break a player nation's history in some essential way? If it will, fair enough. But if all it does is upset the general backstory of an NPC a little...well, heck, why not squeeze it in and give the rest of us something to do? It won't break things that much, considering they came out on the losing end of it anyway which can still contribute to their current status of a declining empire.

23 Principality of Gujura
Princedom, de-facto power lies with the Administrator of the Realm who is technically elected but really the position is hereditary. Historically the Administrator's most important duty is who to decide who to buy off with the vast quantities of gold produced by Gujura's gold mines. Currently the Shinrans are in favor, as evidenced by a recent gift of white tusked mastodonts to Rufus Shinra.

This is just a minor heads up, but as of game start Rufus Shinra will be Vice President, not the actual President. And relatively recently elevated to the VP position, at that.

This doesn't necessitate a change to the above; given it's a recent gift, and Rufus was recently elevated, it is clearly a present given to the new Shinra Vice President and heir-apparent to the Republic's leadership. I just wanted to make people aware of this, as I imagine most everyone familiar with me is probably expecting a Rufus Shinra sitting in the Big Chair. Right now he's still sitting in the Slightly Smaller But Still Pretty Big Chair.

[RogueIce]

Oh, and I would like to remind TimothyC and Simon_Jester of their friendly neighbor the Shinra Republic, who would have a large navy and has probably conducted buildups and subsequent draw-downs as global tensions dictate, and would be a clear and obvious source for second-hand warships.

[TimothyC]

Notes About Hawai'i as they have come to me:

I mentioned the Hawai'ian food situation before, but the Hawai'ian energy situation is also slightly unstable. While all but Kauai of the main islands have nuclear power from the plants on Molokai, there are some installations of renewables - solar, ocean thermal, wind, biomass (rare, as most food production is for domestic consumption), & geo-thermal. Remote islands rely on these (mostly ocean thermal) as much as possible. The flip side is vehicles - other than on O'ahu and Vitu Levu the rail networks run on diesel (the density of service isn't there to justify electrification), as are many cars. There are incentives to move to natural gas powered vehicles, but the transition is slow (around 30% at the present time, and only 10-15% per decade). The Hawai'ians would love to completely be removed from diesel, but that takes time, and improvements to the natural gas infrastructure.

The highest per-capita GDP is in the Capital of Honolulu, with the figures being the equivalent of about 55kUSD/year. This drops as you get further away with an average in the Main islands of just 46k, and the total average being closer to 40k (the fact that over 40% of the total population of the Kingdom lives on O'ahu means it disproportionately impacts GDP). One of the reasons for this highly localized economic activity is the Hawai'ian Stock Exchange & Board of Trade - the second largest stock exchange by volume on all of Tellus (after the San Dorado Exchange).

[TimothyC]

Oh, and I would like to remind TimothyC and Simon_Jester of their friendly neighbor the Shinra Republic, who would have a large navy and has probably conducted buildups and subsequent draw-downs as global tensions dictate, and would be a clear and obvious source for second-hand warships.

We'd be more interested in aid to buy from your shipyards...

You would want the work and a friendly place to go on vacation correct?

[Siege]

And...well, why not? Is the concept that Omnia at one point did try to have naval ambitions going to irrevocably break a player nation's history in some essential way?

Note that I said "that makes no sense", not "that cannot have happened". I'm not wedded to Omnia not having tried and failed naval adventuring at some point, I just think it would make more sense if it was another nation.

[madd0ct0r]

I'm claiming I'm an ex colony of Dreisgond, so maybe that would work? (with Jub's permission)

@RougeIce - Champa would have been in the market for maybe half a dozen old frigates. Would that be possible?

@TimothyC. It'll have to wait until the game starts, but Champa is working on novel energy sources that may well be useful for you. Marine Algae mostly I suspect.

[Simon_Jester]

By the way, while we'd expect Champan participation in the construction and upkeep costs commensurate with their share of the benefits... Umeria is willing to host nuclear reactors and high-voltage long range power lines for its friendly neighbor to the west. If they can be built, we'll take our chances on their meltdown-resistance; it helps that we have more useless land than you do.

[TimothyC]

And...well, why not? Is the concept that Omnia at one point did try to have naval ambitions going to irrevocably break a player nation's history in some essential way?

Note that I said "that makes no sense", not "that cannot have happened". I'm not wedded to Omnia not having tried and failed naval adventuring at some point, I just think it would make more sense if it was another nation.

For the record, the "Omnian Colony" thing was me forgetting who each player was.

[madd0ct0r]

By the way, while we'd expect Champan participation in the construction and upkeep costs commensurate with their share of the benefits... Umeria is willing to host nuclear reactors and high-voltage long range power lines for its friendly neighbor to the west. If they can be built, we'll take our chances on their meltdown-resistance; it helps that we have more useless land than you do.

interesting. have you seen the pm i sent you a while back?

[RogueIce]

And...well, why not? Is the concept that Omnia at one point did try to have naval ambitions going to irrevocably break a player nation's history in some essential way?

Note that I said "that makes no sense", not "that cannot have happened". I'm not wedded to Omnia not having tried and failed naval adventuring at some point, I just think it would make more sense if it was another nation.

Fair enough. If we can come up with one that's sufficiently powerful to credibly threaten Corona and is stronger than them, and so requires some outside assistance with their "main fleet" or whatever, while he fights second-line stuff (which I think is what TRR wants, and I'm offering said outside assistance) then by all means, I'm game.

I just can't think of any other NPC nearby who is plausible, unless some PC wants to step up to that role and feels like having a naval defeat and failed venture at colony snatching in their history books?

[Siege]

Frankly I'd rather see more PCs stepping up to admitting having done bad things in the past. Thanas designated the Britonians the Loser Bad Guys of our WW2 equivalent. And that's fine. But now it's starting to look like Britonia/Nippon were the only terrible people around in the 1st half of the 20th century. Everybody else was their aggrieved victim.

I don't have a problem with aggrieved victims per se. But if we start writing this stuff into our past I feel it would be nice to have a few nations that were involved in badness still actually be around. Right now practically everything terrible is conveniently attributed to states that no longer exist. And frankly that's kinda lame. If we look closely at the history of our world we find that the victors of WW2 were responsible for plenty morally reprehensible shit in that exact same era.

Our nations obviously don't have to adhere to such historical parallels, we can make up whatever we want, but it's a little easy for every significant player in WW2 to have had an otherwise squeaky clean past. If y'all were around back then and had these big ol' battlefleets to toss around, then as far as I'm concerned you can have tried to blow up Corona yourself.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I would offer Arcadia up, but we haven't had colonies for centuries and I don't think I could justify trying to take Corona's.

[Simon_Jester]

By the way, while we'd expect Champan participation in the construction and upkeep costs commensurate with their share of the benefits... Umeria is willing to host nuclear reactors and high-voltage long range power lines for its friendly neighbor to the west. If they can be built, we'll take our chances on their meltdown-resistance; it helps that we have more useless land than you do.

interesting. have you seen the pm i sent you a while back?

Yes.

Want to collaborate on setting up our end of Ausfrica? I've only got a single NPC country to set up, but it's quite large and would probably have played the local role I thought Omnia would.

Not sure. Need more time to think about that. This week is stupidly busy.

I'm guessing that the large grey block we're all spaced around must be impassible hinterland.

Yes.

Certainly it's big enough to throw the amount of river silt at me to make Champa, (same as alps and nepal plateau for Bangladesh)

I quite agree.

I haven't really got a concept for nation 5 yet, still trying to figure out how to make it interesting without having already conquered Champa. Any ideas you're playing with?

Not yet, no.

[Steve]

I would offer Arcadia up, but we haven't had colonies for centuries and I don't think I could justify trying to take Corona's.

Because of your loose federal structure?

[Simon_Jester]

Frankly I'd rather see more PCs stepping up to admitting having done bad things in the past. Thanas designated the Britonians the Loser Bad Guys of our WW2 equivalent. And that's fine. But now it's starting to look like Britonia/Nippon were the only terrible people around in the 1st half of the 20th century. Everybody else was their aggrieved victim.

I don't have a problem with aggrieved victims per se. But if we start writing this stuff into our past I feel it would be nice to have a few nations that were involved in badness still actually be around. Right now practically everything terrible is conveniently attributed to states that no longer exist. And frankly that's kinda lame. If we look closely at the history of our world we find that the victors of WW2 were responsible for plenty morally reprehensible shit in that exact same era.

Our nations obviously don't have to adhere to such historical parallels, we can make up whatever we want, but it's a little easy for every significant player in WW2 to have had an otherwise squeaky clean past. If y'all were around back then and had these big ol' battlefleets to toss around, then as far as I'm concerned you can have tried to blow up Corona yourself.

Agreed. I've just tacitly assumed that every major industrial or mercantile power on the planet had its fingers in Umerian pies during the 19th and early 20th century; anyone who tries to deny it is going to get laughed at by me, if no one else.

Unfortunately, my nation-concept really doesn't lend itself to having done much heinous shit during or since the industrial revolution. On the other hand, my government hasn't held an election since the 1920s, regards mustard gas as a type of party favor, and routinely sends people to labor camps for "being a very bad boss."

Okay, I guess the third one isn't too bad.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I would offer Arcadia up, but we haven't had colonies for centuries and I don't think I could justify trying to take Corona's.

Because of your loose federal structure?

Yep. While its possible some factions may want to take colonies, the others would keep them from doing it.

[KlavoHunter]

And...well, why not? Is the concept that Omnia at one point did try to have naval ambitions going to irrevocably break a player nation's history in some essential way?

Note that I said "that makes no sense", not "that cannot have happened". I'm not wedded to Omnia not having tried and failed naval adventuring at some point, I just think it would make more sense if it was another nation.

My nation, after all, is the result of an Omnian naval adventure of sorts - though even that was an unusual occurrence, where they sat down and felled a few forests to make a very large fleet. And naturally some San Doradans got rich in the process.

Then naturally some San Doradans went broke when the now-Klavostanis used those ships to commit acts of piracy...

Frankly I'd rather see more PCs stepping up to admitting having done bad things in the past. Thanas designated the Britonians the Loser Bad Guys of our WW2 equivalent. And that's fine. But now it's starting to look like Britonia/Nippon were the only terrible people around in the 1st half of the 20th century. Everybody else was their aggrieved victim.

I don't have a problem with aggrieved victims per se. But if we start writing this stuff into our past I feel it would be nice to have a few nations that were involved in badness still actually be around. Right now practically everything terrible is conveniently attributed to states that no longer exist. And frankly that's kinda lame. If we look closely at the history of our world we find that the victors of WW2 were responsible for plenty morally reprehensible shit in that exact same era.

Our nations obviously don't have to adhere to such historical parallels, we can make up whatever we want, but it's a little easy for every significant player in WW2 to have had an otherwise squeaky clean past. If y'all were around back then and had these big ol' battlefleets to toss around, then as far as I'm concerned you can have tried to blow up Corona yourself.

I already volunteered to be on Team Evil Axis for back in the day (And evil babykilling communism in the modern day!), but alas, I already have a pretty full dance card, trying to fight Germany-versus-Russia style against the shockingly populous Cascadian horde... So I probably can't bombard Corona.

[RogueIce]

Frankly I'd rather see more PCs stepping up to admitting having done bad things in the past. Thanas designated the Britonians the Loser Bad Guys of our WW2 equivalent. And that's fine. But now it's starting to look like Britonia/Nippon were the only terrible people around in the 1st half of the 20th century. Everybody else was their aggrieved victim.

I don't have a problem with aggrieved victims per se. But if we start writing this stuff into our past I feel it would be nice to have a few nations that were involved in badness still actually be around. Right now practically everything terrible is conveniently attributed to states that no longer exist. And frankly that's kinda lame. If we look closely at the history of our world we find that the victors of WW2 were responsible for plenty morally reprehensible shit in that exact same era.

Our nations obviously don't have to adhere to such historical parallels, we can make up whatever we want, but it's a little easy for every significant player in WW2 to have had an otherwise squeaky clean past. If y'all were around back then and had these big ol' battlefleets to toss around, then as far as I'm concerned you can have tried to blow up Corona yourself.

Okay. Well, if someone wants to take Omnia's place, I'm game. Otherwise, I guess it'll wind up being Omnia. Fair enough?

As far as bad things in the past, I'm not adverse to that. Geography wise, my obvious "colonial playground" would be the Austrafrica continent, and me and Simon are working on a Shinra-Umerian war along those lines. How much else I got up to depends on the other residents of that continent.

Aside from there, I'm sure me and Hawai'i have a history, which I'll work out with Timothy at some point. And then there's "South America" at the furthest extent. But anything north, like "North America", Eurasia or Fuso/Nippon has been pretty well established so I would, at best, be a supporting player there - maybe sometimes throwing some naval assistance at one faction or another, butting heads and having diplomatic disputes, etc. Some of which I already outline WRT Thanas and his annexing Nippon and if me and Steve want to work out some tensions over his Imperial Republic phase, depending on where they went and what they were doing - my idea mostly being us objecting to him messing about in Hawai'i, depending on the extent of anything done there.

[The Romulan Republic]

I'd rather not have a major attack on Corona. If others think it's a good idea, I'm willing to be flexible about it, but I was envisioning an attack on my colony/overseas naval battles more than an attack on Corona itself.

And we need to work out what Corona's role in the world wars was. Unless I drop the alliance with Orion idea, Corona would probably be involved in some way, even if its just non-military support. Is that acceptable? There seems to be some disagreement about it.

[Eternal_Freedom]

If you and I dropped out alliance idea, we could have had a Falklands-style war over a colony in the 1950s or 60's.