US Military vs Coruscant

Manji · Post by **Manji** » 2002-07-26 11:21am

A wormhole opens linking an undisclosed location in the Arizona desert to the lower levels of Coruscant at the time towards the end of the Republic (anywhere from TPM-AOTC).

The Americans discover it first.

George W Bush, while hopped up on LSD, decides to invade this new planet.

What happens?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-07-26 11:35am

The US army arries, then realises that as they don't have repulsor tech theyre stuck down there.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-07-26 11:38am

If it was during the reign of Palpatine it would be a squash win for the empire but the republic, well they didn't have a lot of defences I don't think.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-07-26 11:40am

Unless W sends a few h-bombs through then the republic will just use it's jedi...

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-26 11:43am

We had this a while ago. SW claims another victory.

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2002-07-26 11:48am

Manji wrote:A wormhole opens linking an undisclosed location in the Arizona desert to the lower levels of Coruscant at the time towards the end of the Republic (anywhere from TPM-AOTC).

The Americans discover it first.

George W Bush, while hopped up on LSD, decides to invade this new planet.

What happens?

On one side we have the U.S. military, supported by 280 million people with a few thousand nuclear weapons. On the other side we have the police force of a planetary city with several trillion inhabitants.

Who do you think wins?

Manji · Post by **Manji** » 2002-07-26 11:50am

NecronLord wrote:The US army arries, then realises that as they don't have repulsor tech theyre stuck down there.

What?

Umm... the US military is replete with helicopters, planes etc. They're not "stuck down there".

And even if they somehow forgot to bring all their aircraft, they would not be "stuck down there" since they could just take vehicles from the locals.

Manji · Post by **Manji** » 2002-07-26 11:56am

NecronLord wrote:Unless W sends a few h-bombs through then the republic will just use it's jedi...

Bleh. We have Delta Force, Green Berets, SEALs.

If a DF/SEAL unit encounters a group of Jedi and they outnumber the Jedi, the Jedi are screwed. Even if they encounter a group of Jedi comparable in size to their unit they could still give really good account of themselves before going down. The Jedi would just expect their standard walkover - and then get a nasty surprise.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-26 11:56am

Planes and helicopters which will be quickly shot down by starfighters, cause they are more maneuverable, have shields (at least some of them) and don't have to rely solely on aerodynamics to resist gravity.

Crazy_Vasey · Post by **Crazy_Vasey** » 2002-07-26 11:57am

If they came in while the clone army was still there before going to war the Yanks would really take a beating IMO.

drifter god · Post by **drifter god** » 2002-07-26 12:22pm

well the us would do pretty good i think, well at least until theyre noticed 5 seconds later and blown to shit

Graeme Dice · Post by **Graeme Dice** » 2002-07-26 12:29pm

Manji wrote:
NecronLord wrote:Unless W sends a few h-bombs through then the republic will just use it's jedi...
Bleh. We have Delta Force, Green Berets, SEALs.

If a DF/SEAL unit encounters a group of Jedi and they outnumber the Jedi, the Jedi are screwed. Even if they encounter a group of Jedi comparable in size to their unit they could still give really good account of themselves before going down. The Jedi would just expect their standard walkover - and then get a nasty surprise.

Yes, elite units have such an easy time with Jedi. They walk all over them just like Fett did with Obi-Wan. Oh wait. He was completely unable to harm him even though he had a bloody starship for support.

Then you have the battle scene in the arena where the Jedi only manage to hold off several hundred to several thousand battle droids.

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-07-26 12:33pm

After the first crushing defeat, the military recommends that all operations cease and the US withdraw from Coruscant. If W is still "hopped up on LSD" and insists on continuing the operation, then Vice President Cheney goes to the Congress and says "Impeach this guy before he gets us all killed."

The Special Forces troopers and indeed even regular infantry would do pretty well, even against Jedi - you can't deflect bullets with a lightsaber and even they can't block dozens of rounds coming at them at any one moment.

Cpt_Frank · Post by **Cpt_Frank** » 2002-07-26 12:35pm

Not to forget that as far as I know, the US special forces don't have jet backpacks. That was one of Jango's main advantages in the battle with Obi-Wan.

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-07-26 12:43pm

Sure, one on one battles, jetpacks are essential to staying alive. When going up against squads, sections, platoons, and the like, they work as a team, covering each other. The Jedi would probably look at the opposition as a series of one on one battles rather than a one guy with a lightsaber against a team of six to ten to thirty men. Those six to ten to thirty would put so much fire upon the Jedi that the Jedi would either withdraw or be killed or go Darkside to survive...

Manji · Post by **Manji** » 2002-07-26 01:02pm

willburns84 wrote:Sure, one on one battles, jetpacks are essential to staying alive. When going up against squads, sections, platoons, and the like, they work as a team, covering each other. The Jedi would probably look at the opposition as a series of one on one battles rather than a one guy with a lightsaber against a team of six to ten to thirty men. Those six to ten to thirty would put so much fire upon the Jedi that the Jedi would either withdraw or be killed or go Darkside to survive...

Yup - every fourth man in the USMC also has an M203.

So a group of ten men would be firing 8-10 automatic assault rifles (rate of fire 600-800 rpm for each rifle, X 10 = 6,000-8,000 RPM, similar to the rate of fire of a minigun, only from different angles, with pure KE projectiles as opposed to energy bolts and therefore undeflectable by a lightsaber (blockable maybe, but impossible to deflect back at an opponent), plus two M203's lobbing 40mm grenades.

That would be enough to kill any Jedi.

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-07-26 01:13pm

In addition, it would not take the military long to get samples of blasters and other military grade weaponry (if only from the local cops and even local criminals) for their own use - not to mention study. Also, down on the lower levels of Coruscant the use of Starfighters and other military attack craft would be greatly limited given the terrain - the troopers could always take cover in the buildings, and even if the buildings were blasted, rubble provides even better cover than a building for fighting positions. Any craft with shielding would be able to withstand Stinger attacks, but capture a few of the heavier blaster weapons from the locals and poof there goes a few of those starfighters.

Now, if clone troopers were sent in, then there could be some problems since their personal armor can probably stop most small arms. But that's what grenade launchers, etc. are for. There's a tripod mounted 40mm grenade launcher in use with the US Military that has a rate of fire high enough to scare the crap out of anyone - at least a sixty rounds a minute, perhaps more. Dual purpose HE/AP rounds would ruin a clone trooper's day.

And again, dead clone troopers = getting blasters, et al.

Akm72 · Post by **Akm72** » 2002-07-26 01:39pm

Yup - every fourth man in the USMC also has an M203.

So a group of ten men would be firing 8-10 automatic assault rifles (rate of fire 600-800 rpm for each rifle, X 10 = 6,000-8,000 RPM, similar to the rate of fire of a minigun, only from different angles, with pure KE projectiles as opposed to energy bolts and therefore undeflectable by a lightsaber (blockable maybe, but impossible to deflect back at an opponent), plus two M203's lobbing 40mm grenades.

A couple of points, the USMC has been taught not to 'spray and pray' when firing their weapons; they'll probably fire on single-shot instead. The M16A2 used by the US military doesn't have a fully-automatic mode they have 3-round burst instead. But even if they did have fully-auto, and used it, most of the rounds fired wouldn't go anywhere near the Jedi anyway.

But how do the Marines deal with an enemy that can move at 100mph (or however fast Jedi can run) and can out-flank them by Jedi-leaping right over their heads. That can knock them down with a gesture, can distract them by causing them to hear sounds behind them, and can side-step or block bullets with a gesture or with their sabres?

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-07-26 02:04pm

Manji wrote:
willburns84 wrote:Sure, one on one battles, jetpacks are essential to staying alive. When going up against squads, sections, platoons, and the like, they work as a team, covering each other. The Jedi would probably look at the opposition as a series of one on one battles rather than a one guy with a lightsaber against a team of six to ten to thirty men. Those six to ten to thirty would put so much fire upon the Jedi that the Jedi would either withdraw or be killed or go Darkside to survive...
Yup - every fourth man in the USMC also has an M203.

So a group of ten men would be firing 8-10 automatic assault rifles (rate of fire 600-800 rpm for each rifle, X 10 = 6,000-8,000 RPM, similar to the rate of fire of a minigun, only from different angles, with pure KE projectiles as opposed to energy bolts and therefore undeflectable by a lightsaber (blockable maybe, but impossible to deflect back at an opponent), plus two M203's lobbing 40mm grenades.

That would be enough to kill any Jedi.

[/b]the jedi don't have to they just raise their hand and all those men go flying, or are force poked in eye or kicked in groin. Please also remember that the jedi can see things before they happen. even as the marines or whatever raise their weapons the barrels miraculously bend, all the clips are removed and the safety's go on.

also to whoever said the us could get blasters and study them, thats a very bad idea, it'd be like giving a minigun to a caveman.

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-26 02:59pm

Also as somone kindly pointed out in a similar thread awhile back
The POLICE Force of Courscant numbers in the millions by ITSELF

The acutal military Presance is around 10 million to prehaps hundred million because of the lack of soild numbers on this if we can take the fact that We have at LEAST 1 Trillion people on Courscant that 100 million Strong Army would not be THAT unrelistic roughly 1 in 10,000,000 people are a memeber of the miltary...

Keep in mind the US does not even have 10million people under arms...
The Courscant Police force, let alone the Military might have more Troops than the US does

We are talking anywhere from a 100-1 Disavantge for the US to a 10,000-1 Disadvantage

Deimos Anomaly · Post by **Deimos Anomaly** » 2002-07-26 03:03pm

NecronLord wrote:also to whoever said the us could get blasters and study them, thats a very bad idea, it'd be like giving a minigun to a caveman.

Not really.

The technological/usage/method/capability difference in terms of ground/air combat weapons between a modern real life army and a Star Wars army is utterly miniscule in comparison with the technological/usage/method/capability difference between a modern army and some cavemen.

The only area in which the gap between our current technology and the technology of SW is comparable to that between our current technology and that of cavemen, is in the area of space travel and space combat. They have massive capital starships with shields, energy weapons in the gigaton range, artificial gravity, FTL drive, power cores with an energy density beyond anything we can dream of seeing in real life at least for another half-millenia, etc... while we have (trumpets sound) the Space Shuttle and a few Apollo rockets.

But as for operations on planets, they are clearly not so advanced as to make modern real life militaries look like cavemen by comparison.

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-07-26 03:46pm

yes it is, there is very little differnce in principle from a gun and throwing a rock at someone, but the tech that goes into a blaster is vastly more advanced than anything we have today

Post by **Mr Bean** » 2002-07-26 04:03pm

But any old yahoo can use a blaster just as easy as a gun

After all if it has a triger and a trigger guard even if its in a giant Watermellon shape I think most US(I hope all) Troops would be able to use the giant watermellon gun

Post by **NecronLord** » 2002-07-26 04:08pm

Yes i agree, however someone mentioned reverse engineering a blaster.

willburns84 · Post by **willburns84** » 2002-07-26 09:22pm

No, no, no, - I specifically mentioned that the US wouldn't be able to reverse engineer a blaster. The US would certainly try to do it, but would not be successful. Besides, some yahoo over there would easily show the group just how to use such weapons and teach them basic principles.

As far as police go. Police are police. Police, despite advanced weaponry such as blasters, still think like police. Soldiers have a completely different mindset than police. Example:

Police notice there's a sniper in random building - they possibly storm the building to deal with the sniper, or just evacuate everyone nearby and just wait the perp out.
Soldiers notice there's a sniper in random building - BOOM! Building gone. Better safe than sorry. Firepower is a way of life.

Modern day Marines are taught to aim rather than spray. Fine. They can adapt to new situations if need be. If they need to spray, they can spray even with three round burst fire. Not to mention the good old SAW and heavier automatic weapons.

Jedi have some amazing abilities but they are not unassailable. And they can see into the future, possible futures, usually too far ahead to be useful in any combat situation. Otherwise they would've known just how many of their number would've been killed at Geonosis with their original plan and would have adjusted tactics accordingly.

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US Military vs Coruscant

US Military vs Coruscant

Re: US Military vs Coruscant

Jedi are not unassailable