Replicators invade Star Trek galaxy

[Gurgeh]

While the Replicators are invading the Ida galaxy they discover a anomoly that could take them to another reality and that happens to be the Star Trek universe. One infested Beliskner class ship was sent into the anomoly and some how the anomoly vanished after the ship went through. The Replicator ship is somewhere deep in the Beta quadrant. Their first target for their ship was a lone Klingon Bird of Prey out for a deep space mission. The timeline for this takes place in the years 2400-2411 (using Star Trek online timeline) I would like to know. What would a long scenario like this play out? I also would like long descriptive answers on this post not just a few sentances.
there are some rules in this post:
1. No Omnipoint beings (Q and other creatures0
2. No Technobable that saves the day.
3. No Off topic trends (like talking about if Replicators could infest organic material)
Those are my rules for right now.

[avatarxprime]

3. No Off topic trends (like talking about if Replicators could infest organic material)

Well actually it's not Off topic, at least not that specific example, Replicators can take control of organic matter as seen in Arc of Truth.

Honestly though, the Replicators win and it's as simple as that. Every major power we've seen use energy weapons, the Replicators are not affected by energy weapons (by and large). Since you posited them as being of the Ida stock, they have access to Asgard technology+ meaning they can run around the Milky Way in ST with impunity because absolutely nothing can catch them. Heck, if they wanted they could pop over to a nearby galaxy and build up forces before returning the sweep the entire ST-verse version of the Milky Way. The major constraint for them will be finding sources of neutronium for use in producing the higher end Asgard tech and Human-forms. Also, I'd bet every race that's not Borg assume the Replicators are some new kind of Borg and fight them in a terribly inappropriate fashion.

So, the Replicators attack and consume the Bird of Prey. I'm assuming some level of competancy on the part of the Klingons and they get a message out about a "new and mysterious strain of Borg" they are fighting before they are all killed. The Replicators now have access to a Klingon database on the situation in the Milky Way. Realizing this is not the MW they are familiar with they do as they always do, find more matter to use to replicate. Priority one for them would be to amass additional units since they are one (now 2) ships in a hostile galaxy. They go on absorbing new matter while the Klingons send more ships out to investigate. Eventually they realize these things are a threat and pass along the info they have to the Federation. In the meanwhile I would expect rumors of these "new Borg" to start floating about everywhere. The Federation come to help their allies the Klingons, possibly ending the Klingon-Gorn war right then and there (through diplomacy) so they can concentrate on the Replicators.

The presence of Replicators would also give weight to the Klingon argument about the Undine since the two forces are enemies. Likely, the Federation and Klingon split never happens now. The Undine go off and attack the Replicators just like they attack Borg and possibly the Federation and Klingons enter a temporary alliance against the Replicators for so long as the threat exists. As the "foremost expert" on the Borg, Janeway is recruited to head up a taskforce to fight the Replicators and dies a terrible and ignoble death. The Replicators procede to take over the galaxy and eventually start working on finding a way back to their universe.

[Molyneux]

3. No Off topic trends (like talking about if Replicators could infest organic material)

Well actually it's not Off topic, at least not that specific example, Replicators can take control of organic matter as seen in Arc of Truth.

Honestly though, the Replicators win and it's as simple as that. Every major power we've seen use energy weapons, the Replicators are not affected by energy weapons (by and large). Since you posited them as being of the Ida stock, they have access to Asgard technology+ meaning they can run around the Milky Way in ST with impunity because absolutely nothing can catch them. Heck, if they wanted they could pop over to a nearby galaxy and build up forces before returning the sweep the entire ST-verse version of the Milky Way. The major constraint for them will be finding sources of neutronium for use in producing the higher end Asgard tech and Human-forms. Also, I'd bet every race that's not Borg assume the Replicators are some new kind of Borg and fight them in a terribly inappropriate fashion.

So, the Replicators attack and consume the Bird of Prey. I'm assuming some level of competancy on the part of the Klingons and they get a message out about a "new and mysterious strain of Borg" they are fighting before they are all killed. The Replicators now have access to a Klingon database on the situation in the Milky Way. Realizing this is not the MW they are familiar with they do as they always do, find more matter to use to replicate. Priority one for them would be to amass additional units since they are one (now 2) ships in a hostile galaxy. They go on absorbing new matter while the Klingons send more ships out to investigate. Eventually they realize these things are a threat and pass along the info they have to the Federation. In the meanwhile I would expect rumors of these "new Borg" to start floating about everywhere. The Federation come to help their allies the Klingons, possibly ending the Klingon-Gorn war right then and there (through diplomacy) so they can concentrate on the Replicators.

The presence of Replicators would also give weight to the Klingon argument about the Undine since the two forces are enemies. Likely, the Federation and Klingon split never happens now. The Undine go off and attack the Replicators just like they attack Borg and possibly the Federation and Klingons enter a temporary alliance against the Replicators for so long as the threat exists. As the "foremost expert" on the Borg, Janeway is recruited to head up a taskforce to fight the Replicators and dies a terrible and ignoble death. The Replicators procede to take over the galaxy and eventually start working on finding a way back to their universe.

How are they "not affected by energy weapons"? Do they just have author-fiat immunity, or do they use some kind of mechanism to protect themselves?

[Gurgeh]

3. No Off topic trends (like talking about if Replicators could infest organic material)

Well actually it's not Off topic, at least not that specific example, Replicators can take control of organic matter as seen in Arc of Truth.

I have this little discussion on www.spacebattles.com for a bit. So that is why I don't want to talk about it again.

[Darth Tedious]

How are they "not affected by energy weapons"? Do they just have author-fiat immunity, or do they use some kind of mechanism to protect themselves?

Then there's the fact that not all ST weapons are purely energy-based.
Phasers, for one, fire a stream of nadion particles.

[Gurgeh]

How are they "not affected by energy weapons"? Do they just have author-fiat immunity, or do they use some kind of mechanism to protect themselves?

Then there's the fact that not all ST weapons are purely energy-based.
Phasers, for one, fire a stream of nadion particles.

Although they could adapt to that. Could they do well against Klingon Distruptors?

[wautd]

2. No Technobable that saves the day.

Yeah, I don't really see how Star Trek has any chance against the replicators using only conventional means.

[Gurgeh]

2. No Technobable that saves the day.

Yeah, I don't really see how Star Trek has any chance against the replicators using only conventional means.

I may change my mind later on to see could Star Trek win the fight as a AU Replicators vs Star Trek.

[avatarxprime]

How are they "not affected by energy weapons"? Do they just have author-fiat immunity, or do they use some kind of mechanism to protect themselves?

Then there's the fact that not all ST weapons are purely energy-based.
Phasers, for one, fire a stream of nadion particles.

A particle beam weapon is essentially an energy weapon and Replicators absorb energy directed against them, hence why I said that by and large energy weapons have no effect on them. The upper limit of this ability is unknown, but the Asgard were unable to find an effective way of eliminating individual Replicators at infantry level with their energy weapons. Now there are some exceptions, like the weapon that Jack designed while full of the Ancient's knowledge. That was an energy weapon too, but the Replicators couldn't absorb it. Also, in ship to ship combat it is possible to dump sufficient energy to overcome the ability of Replicators to absorb it or simply reassemble after having their structure disrupted by it, effectively killing them. They are also vulnerable to projectile weapons. Unfortunately few ST races use slug throwers in any version of conventional combat. Considering Replicators like to come over to your ship and take control of it, without a reliable way to eliminate their boarding actions, you lose.

3. No Off topic trends (like talking about if Replicators could infest organic material)

Well actually it's not Off topic, at least not that specific example, Replicators can take control of organic matter as seen in Ark of Truth.

I have this little discussion on http://www.spacebattles.com for a bit. So that is why I don't want to talk about it again.

That's fine and all, it's just I don't see why there should be a discussion. Ark of Truth showed that it's possible, discussion over. Anyone who says otherwise needs to somehow show why the canon is wrong.

[Darth Tedious]

How are they "not affected by energy weapons"? Do they just have author-fiat immunity, or do they use some kind of mechanism to protect themselves?

Then there's the fact that not all ST weapons are purely energy-based.
Phasers, for one, fire a stream of nadion particles.

Although they could adapt to that.

While I'm not saying that they couldn't (I know very little about the Replicators), I must ask for your reasoning behind this assertion.

Could they do well against Klingon Distruptors?

Insufficient data for meaningful answer. Very little information is available about the workings of Klingon disruptors, and what tidbits have been given throughout Trek about disruptors in general show that they have radically differing mechanisms (from sonics to antiprotons, hell- even Federation phasers have a 'disruptor' setting).

A particle beam weapon is essentially an energy weapon...

How does firing matter qualify it as an energy weapon?

[Ahriman238]

They may have a chance on the the personal level. The replicators were able to absorb a number of zat blasts without injury but shattered into component blocks when shot with projectile weapons. Of course, they promptly reassembled themselves, but they could only do it once and after the first episode the ability was never seen or mentioned again.

So if the Federation replicates a lot of shotguns, they be able to (very) briefly stem the tide. Keep in mind that unless there were a dozen or less Replicators, all the guns ever did was give SG-1 time to escape or enact a plan to sabotage the ship they were on.

On the sip level, as per usual, the Federation gets ass-raped. Once the replicators board a ship they will consume anything not useful to them: internal bulkheads, furniture, life support systems, probably Warp systems, etc. When left with a purely functional starship they will upgrade it with Asgard-level technology backed up with their rather insane energy generation abilities. When they encounter planets, they will consume all useful materials and form ships made entirely of Replicator blocks, with accompanying energy-immunity.

Yeah, unless something has really changed by the time of STO, this one is the Replicators easily.

[Metahive]

Absorbing Zats isn't that impressive since those are just future-y tazers and might simply not function all that well when the target has no nervous system to overload. Absorbing staff blasts is more impressive since those, at least in the first season of SG-1, were able to blow up rocks (yet left squishy flesh mostly intact, go figure).
I'd question that the Replicators can just "adapt" Borg-style to exotic weapons just by being exposed to them. While that was something the Asurans were capable of, the Ida Replicators had to go and steal the plans and specifications of the disruptor to counter it after all.

[Gurgeh]

If the Federation where to write a report on the Replicators what would they say? like I saw a section on here once and it was describing what would the Empire think of the Milky Way Galaxy http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tac ... val-1.html But with the Federation about the Replicators what would they think? I also want to know what would a report from the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassian, and Borg. I like it to be in character and I would like to know what would just want to know what the Alpha Quadrand and other Quadrant races would think of the Reps.

[Gurgeh]

Hello is this thread dead? I wonder how would the Replicators invade the Klingons or the Romulans if they meet them.

[Solauren]

Same has the Replicators do anything.

They build up massive numbers, and then swarm. They ignore damage and reassemble, and they keep coming.

Imagine the Borg, but if you shot the Borg up, the Borg parts keep interswaping until from 10 borg, you then kill 9, then 8, then 7, then 6, then 5, then 4, then 3, then 2, then 1.

Except in this case, you have ships that would EAT Borg cubes doing it.

The Replicators have also shown tactics. They promptly take over the systems that let the Asguard detect individual blocks and disable them. Presumably this is to prevent the Asguard from simply beaming the Replicators into space.

Sorry, any and every Star Trek race gets it's ass-raped against the Replicators. Nothing sort of Deux Ex Machina stops those things.

Hell, given enough time, the Replicators could presumably take out just about any space civilization that fails to notice them before a certain point.

[Gurgeh]

How would Species 8472 handle the Replicators can they put up much of a fight against them?

I know this has prob been done to deat as well but who would win in this fight the Borg Collective vs Replicators after several months in the new galaxy?

[Darth Tedious]

Going back to the question of disruptor fire, Romulan disruptors should have some effect, as they (apparently) fire antiprotons.

Not that this would greatly affect the overall outcome, from the looks of things...

[Batman]

How would Species 8472 handle the Replicators can they put up much of a fight against them?

On the infantry level they are likely to fare better than most other Trek races since they like to punch their opponents to death, and we know the spider replicators are vulnerable to modern day firearms, suggesting a definite vulnerability to KE/momentum attacks. Overall?
They get reamed just like everybody else. The LEGO villains have SG level shielding, firepower, and stardrive speed, while 8472 had trouble dealing with VOY.

I know this has prob been done to death as well but who would win in this fight the Borg Collective vs Replicators after several months in the new galaxy?

Actually I can't recall that scenario having come up before (which doesn't necessarily mean much, mind you, I hardly know everything that ever happened on this board). And unless you blithely assume the Borg can assimilate the replicators because of, um, because, they're in as much trouble as everybody else. No projectile weapons and slow as molasses Drones on the infantry level, firepower/shield resilience/speed within hailing range of AQ technology in space.

[Ahriman238]

Keep in mind that without technobabble, Stargate's Earth, Asgard, etc. would have been wtfpwned by the replicators too, long term. They could win individual battles, but were losing the war horribly until magic ended it.

?

In the begining it was made very clear that for all the small victories against the Replicators, like saving Earth and the Asgard Homeworld, the Replicators themselves never lost anything important, and most of those 'victories' relied on situational factors unlikely to repeat themselves. There was always this feeling that if the Replicators ever got even a tiny toehold in the Milky Way, or ever set foot on Earth, that was it. Game over.
(Yes, I remember Small Victories. Remember how the prescence of a single Replicator on Earth was treated as impending Armageddon?)

Towards the end of season five though, they finally got something important. Reese, the android who created the Replicators. From that point on, the war with the Replicators became a sort of ping-pong match of sudden reversals:
The Asgard use Reese to lure all the Replicators to a single planet where they can be contained in a time-dilation field, Good. The Replicators reach the device and reverse the field so they have centuries to build up their numbers and prepare, Bad.
SG-1 fixes the field and the Asgard destroy the local star, leaving the Replicators with subjective seconds before their doom, Good. The Replicators turn the time-dilation device into an exotic engine (Thor had no idea how) and escapes to the new Asgard Homeworld, Orilla, Bad.
Thor nearly destroys the Replicator ship while in Hyperspace, Good. He is foiled by Replicator saboteurs on his ship, Bad.
The Asgard intercept the Replicator ship, Good. Enough Replicators survive to multiply and overrun the planet, Bad.
Col. O'neil under the influence of the Ancient Archive device designs a magiktech gun that disables the Replicators and they use it to save Orilla, Good. A single Replicator ship escapes, Bad.
The Replicators are now hunted throughout the Ida galaxy by ARG-armed Asgard ships, Good. So they hide and build up their numbers, and launch a bizarre plot that lets them immunize themselves to the ARGs, Bad.
Then of course, the Replicators launch a massive invasion of the Milky Way, Bad. That ends when an Ancient device is jury rigged to send an ARG-like effect to every world in the galaxy, Good. /War.

The point is, there were a good eight or nine points where if the Asgard had been quicker, or more aggressive or simply luckier they could have ended the Replicator threat forever. If they had destroyed the sun right after SG-1 restored the time-dilation field, If Thor had warned Sam and Teal'c of the possibility of boarders earlier, If the Orilla defense fleet could attack a vessel before it left hyperspace, or just a fraction of a second earlier, If the original ship-based ARG had charged just a little quiker. If, most important word in the language, it is.

But if the dice (writers) had fallen the other way on any of these events, the Asgard would have won, and they would have won through their own courage and ingenuity, or a little extraordinary help from SG-1. No Deus ex Machina or magic. They were in fact losing the war, until Sg-1 dug up Reese.

Not that I expect any of this to help out Star Trek. I do have one thought for something that may mitigate the pwnage, but I doubt it would do all that much. In Small Victories we learned that while Ida Replicators could make more Replicators using common earth materials, they were signifigantly inferior to the Ida models that built them. Naquadah or Neutronium Replicators may have all sorts of functions that cannot be copied by Replicators made of base iron and steel, like Surviving re-entry or swimming, and I believe they are implied to be inferior in computing terms as well.

[Gurgeh]

Does anyone think that the Borg would be destroyed in this scenario? I keep thinking that Borg Drones in Star Trek would be to slow to even catch the replicator bugs and then cant assimilate them. People always argue that Borg can assimlate Rep blocks and then try to gain information into their subspace networks but that would be hard to do because the drone would slowly have to walk up to a fast moving Rep bug and trying to pick it up is like picking up a pissed off cat. Also if the drone did try to assimlate it the blocks could just deactivate when infected and fall to the ground.

[avatarxprime]

A particle beam weapon is essentially an energy weapon...

How does firing matter qualify it as an energy weapon?

When the matter isn't important. You're firing a stream of sub-atomic particles that likely masses under 0.01kg all together. However, none of that matters since the KE and momentum is based on each individual particle in the set. For an electron that's KE=4.987E-13 J and momentum=1.916E-21 N*s assuming 99% of lightspeed. For a proton you get 9.151E-10 J and 3.516E-18 N*s respectively. Not exactly anything close to a kinetic impactor which will break stuff up on impact. That's why you consider it in terms of the beam's overall energy content since that's what matters. Like a laser or other DEW a particle beam is about the amount of energy it's dumping into the target with photons being replaced by subatomic particles. You can read this if you're interested in more.

As to the effectiveness of slug throwers and KE weapons in general, they work because they smash up the Replicator blocks. If you seperate the individual blocks by enough space or smash them up enough that they can't literally pull themselves together they stop working.

Does anyone think that the Borg would be destroyed in this scenario? I keep thinking that Borg Drones in Star Trek would be to slow to even catch the replicator bugs and then cant assimilate them. People always argue that Borg can assimlate Rep blocks and then try to gain information into their subspace networks but that would be hard to do because the drone would slowly have to walk up to a fast moving Rep bug and trying to pick it up is like picking up a pissed off cat. Also if the drone did try to assimlate it the blocks could just deactivate when infected and fall to the ground.

Keep in mind, a Replicator's offensive abilities as displayed in the show consist of using claws or acid spray, they're melee fighters and would be charging the Borg so the Borg wouldn't need to chase them.

How would Species 8472 handle the Replicators can they put up much of a fight against them?

They can claw up some individual Replicators in infantry level combat, but anyone doing so will eventually be torn apart and killed, their matter being used to produce new Replicators. Ship to Ship, they put out enough energy to quickly frag Cubes so they might be able to hold off against the Replicators in combat, but winning is highly doubtful. 8472 probably does better than most Trek races but will fail none the less. Just imagine Replicators in Fluidic Space, they'd literally be turning the very space around 8472 into new Replicators.

[Johonebesus]

Does anyone think that the Borg would be destroyed in this scenario? I keep thinking that Borg Drones in Star Trek would be to slow to even catch the replicator bugs and then cant assimilate them. People always argue that Borg can assimlate Rep blocks and then try to gain information into their subspace networks but that would be hard to do because the drone would slowly have to walk up to a fast moving Rep bug and trying to pick it up is like picking up a pissed off cat. Also if the drone did try to assimlate it the blocks could just deactivate when infected and fall to the ground.

This gave me an interesting thought. Ultimately the Replicators are nano-robots. Whether "spiders," "queens," humanoids, or ships, the nano machines are the important part, not the shapes they form themselves into. The Borg also might be seen hosts for their nano-probes. A few stray nanites shed by 7of9 created a new drone out of random bits of DNA, the Doc's holo-emitter, and whatever material was at hand. If a Replicator got close enough to a Borg drone, it would come down to a war between their respective nanites. I expect the Replicators would still win, but it is an interesting way to view the conflict.

I wonder why the Replicators always formed blocks or humanoids. It seems like a grey goo would be a very effective strategy once they are on a ship or planet. Perhaps they require a fairly large brain with solid structures to think.

[Metahive]

Only the human form Replicators nano-machine colonies and they achieved this by copying and modifying the makeup of their android creator for thousands of years. The lego-block Replicators are not, they're just...lego-blocks held together by technobabble.

[bilateralrope]

How reasonable would it be to assume that the replicators can use the fluid of fluidic space as raw material for new replicators ?

Just how screwed would they be if it is true and the replicators make their way there ?

One scenario that keeps coming to mind when talking about species 8472 is a runaway compression event:
Start with something sufficiently denser than the fluid finding its way into fludic space. Since it's denser, its gravity increases the fluid density around it. This increases the gravity of the dense part of fluid space, attracting more fluid. This keeps building until it has sucked most of the fluid down a black hole.
Is that scenario reasonable ?

[Darth Tedious]

When the matter isn't important. You're firing a stream of sub-atomic particles that likely masses under 0.01kg all together. However, none of that matters since the KE and momentum is based on each individual particle in the set. For an electron that's KE=4.987E-13 J and momentum=1.916E-21 N*s assuming 99% of lightspeed. For a proton you get 9.151E-10 J and 3.516E-18 N*s respectively. Not exactly anything close to a kinetic impactor which will break stuff up on impact. That's why you consider it in terms of the beam's overall energy content since that's what matters. Like a laser or other DEW a particle beam is about the amount of energy it's dumping into the target with photons being replaced by subatomic particles. You can read this if you're interested in more.

I would agree with regards to conventional particle beams, which are (in ridiculously simplified terms) firing electrical charge at the target, with negligible kinetic energy. They could easily be absorbed by the Replicators.
However, none of this applies to phasers, which are not conventional particle beams. They are also not DEWs.
The effect on the target is created by the funky reactions of nadion particles with the target matter. Though, there's little we can do analysis-wise with real science, as nadions are an imaginary particle created by ST writers. None of which helps answer the question- why should the Replicators be immune to them? We don't know how nadion particles actually work. My point was that they would not be immune to them "just because", as they are not an energy weapon per se.
A better weapon for examination would be Romulan disruptors. A particle beam firing antiprotons is also not a DEW weapon, as the damage is going to be caused by M/AM annihilation.
In both cases (nadions and antiprotons) the damage is most certainly done by the matter being fired and the resultant reaction. This likely applies to many other weapons in ST, which tend to have a habit of being reaction-based.

Again, my main point is that Replicators should not be assumed to be automatically immune to any and all ST weapons. I do not feel that this would alter the overall outcome of the conflict, but it would make a large difference in the ability of ST factions to fight back.

Do we have any reference as to the effectiveness of sonic weapons?