nBSG Episode 311: "The Eye of Jupiter"...

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-12-17 02:21am

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I'll be honest and say that I don't really mind the "soap opera/live journal" aspects at all.

But you're not trying to claim it's the greatest approach to storytelling ever. Frankly, some people watch Neighbours and some don't: I don't, and I don't want to watch Neighbours with Spaceships either.

Lord Poe · Post by **Lord Poe** » 2006-12-17 04:28am

Knife wrote:On a side note; I'm becomeing convinced that the only reason Starbuck was made a woman in the new series is so that this painful plot arc could be had.

Knife · Post by **Knife** » 2006-12-17 10:59am

Covenant wrote:Yeah, I was never bothered by it, since it's stupid but understandable to have one of the characters be a great shot rather than bring in a marine you've never heard of. I would rather that they actually did have a marine that they knew well, and he was the one who did that gun bit and a few of the other things. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that she's good in these things, but I think that in retrospect it could have been handled better, since it feels like they're evolving the character but not perfectly sure where they want her to end up as. So we get a lot of incongruous Starbuck wank, a lot of Apollo weepy emo angst, and a lot of Baltar realization epiphany because while they know what they want the character to become, it's like they're always going "Oh wait, I think NOW would have been a better time for that... can we do that now? Sure, I guess so."

Like, the Apollo/Starbuck thing... that was settled, and done, before. Now it's not. It just seems contrived, like a do-over. I hope this plot arc resolves itself soon though, and I feel like it may be coming to a head now. Once it does, that'd be nice, since I'd like to get back to the matters at hand. There's so many more cool things to talk about with regards to life on a spaceship looking for Earth that the filler doesn't really need to be so obviously filler.

They could have worked it without Starbuck wank and totally dropping me out of SOD by simply having her there with a Marine sniper team as either a spotter or consultant to point out the friendlies she knows. Or on sight command and control in a very important mission.

It would make more sense to me, just because Appolo is a major character, in universe, doesn't mean some Marine would know him, especially since he just got there and became CAG.

FSTargetDrone · Post by **FSTargetDrone** » 2006-12-17 02:20pm

NeoGoomba wrote:I couldn't agree more. It takes a lot to really piss me off, but as a character, Starbuck achieves on all counts. Hell, in my mind, BALTAR has more redeeming qualities than she does

I don't know about everyone else here, but Baltar is easily my favorite character. He isn't really evil, but he really isn't good either. He's looking out for himself, of course, that's not a new revelation at all. But did you see the look on his face when he was back aboard Galactica? He couldn't leave, but he couldn't stay. The poor guy has been used, abused and taken advantage of. And now he's stuck in a weird sort of purgatory. He reacted with a look of horror when they skinjobs were discussing the way the Centurions would kill the humans on the planet there doesn't seem to be anything he can do about it right now.

I don't think he's allied himself with the Cylons as much as he is tagging along. He wants to find out if he might be a Cylon himself (I hope this is not the case) and so does whatever he can to stay in a position to see if this is so. But he sure looks like he wants back on Galactica, if that were only possible.

I am very interested in seeing where his character, above all the others, he ends up at the end.

Uraniun235 · Post by **Uraniun235** » 2006-12-17 02:34pm

Spanky The Dolphin wrote:I'll be honest and say that I don't really mind the "soap opera/live journal" aspects at all.

I don't inherently dislike relationship-based drama as part of a larger episode, but a lot of the drama this episode was just lame because I cannot sympathize with either Apollo or Starbuck.

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2006-12-17 02:44pm

Uraniun235 wrote: I don't inherently dislike relationship-based drama as part of a larger episode, but a lot of the drama this episode was just lame because I cannot sympathize with either Apollo or Starbuck.

I hadn't thought about it, but this is partly the way I feel as well. I don't know if the idea of Galactica...that is humanity being on the verge of extinction, lends itself as well to a relationship based drama. It certainly should have relationship aspects to it, but the Starbuck/Lee thread has gone far beyond that. It SHOULD be about the struggle to survive with limited supplies and no allies (as Adama said in the Mini).

Having said that, it wouldn't be worth much if the characters didn't live a little. But Moore has, as you said, made both Lee and Starbuck people that I could care less about. If Adama decides to glass over the planet, I would miss the Chief and Cally but it'd almost be worth the price to get rid of those two.

Phantasee · Post by **Phantasee** » 2006-12-17 04:24pm

Vympel wrote:
Roslin wrote:five pillars of the temple were fashioned for the five priests devoted to the one whose name cannot be ....
The Cylon God? The one who tried to come before all the others?

Perhaps Voldemort?

But I liked this episode. Seeing that it ended just as something was going to happen just pissed me off, but in a good way. It's not frustration with the show...I'd call it frustration with myself for not noticing the time and being prepared for the ending, and instead freaking out when it just ends.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-12-17 06:35pm

I felt really sorry for Baltar in this episode. He seemed genuinely happy to see the President, and was obviously affected when she wouldn't even look at him and dismissed everything he had to say. He clearly wanted to stay on Galactica, IMO, even though he knows he'd be tossed out an airlock.

Of course, my prediction is that he'll be back on Galactica for good in the next episode- probably by helping to rescue Hera from the Basestar.

Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba · Post by **Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba** » 2006-12-17 07:18pm

I give it a 3. This Degrassi in Space bullshit is really starting to get on my nerves. Starbuck's an irresponsible (sociopathic) whore and Apollo's an inconsistent asshole, we get it. Can't someone just beat some sense into them for Christ's sake? Oh wait...

Galvatron · Post by **Galvatron** » 2006-12-17 10:22pm

I'm curious why Baltar is so hated.

Sure, he was may have been a shitty president before the Cylons arrived on New Caprica, but what did he do after that? Even during the occupation, he was never the mustache-twirling villain that his oBSG namesake was.

Could someone explain to me like I'm a five year old?

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2006-12-17 10:33pm

Galvatron wrote:I'm curious why Baltar is so hated.

Sure, he was may have been a shitty president before the Cylons arrived on New Caprica, but what did he do after that? Even during the occupation, he was never the mustache-twirling villain that his oBSG namesake was.

Could someone explain to me like I'm a five year old?

Well, he did cover up Boomer being a cylon. I'm sure there's other bad stuff he did.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2006-12-17 10:35pm

Galvatron wrote:I'm curious why Baltar is so hated.

Sure, he was may have been a shitty president before the Cylons arrived on New Caprica, but what did he do after that? Even during the occupation, he was never the mustache-twirling villain that his oBSG namesake was.

Could someone explain to me like I'm a five year old?

He cooperated with all the plans the Cylons had for New Caprcia, was complicit in the formation of the NCP and was an accessory to serial detention, torture and personally signed the death warrant for hundreds of people. He's also kinda sorta telling the Cylons where they're going.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2006-12-17 10:40pm

And he gave Gina a nuclear bomb. Other than that, he's a good guy. Honest.

DPDarkPrimus · Post by **DPDarkPrimus** » 2006-12-17 11:42pm

Shadow WarChief wrote:
Galvatron wrote:I'm curious why Baltar is so hated.

Sure, he was may have been a shitty president before the Cylons arrived on New Caprica, but what did he do after that? Even during the occupation, he was never the mustache-twirling villain that his oBSG namesake was.

Could someone explain to me like I'm a five year old?
He cooperated with all the plans the Cylons had for New Caprcia, was complicit in the formation of the NCP and was an accessory to serial detention, torture and personally signed the death warrant for hundreds of people.

He was obviously in the dark about a lot of what was going on at the detention center, and he signed that death warrant only after they put a freaking gun to his head.

He's also kinda sorta telling the Cylons where they're going.

Well, that's just him trying to stay alive.

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2006-12-17 11:51pm

neoolong wrote: Well, he did cover up Boomer being a cylon.

With reasons that were, quite frankly, retarded. For a super genius, he doesn't seem to understand the concept of lying to her now, then later run to tell Adama and about 20 marines who can then barge in on her, and arrest her without anyone getting hurt.

Then, of course, have a mandate in place where marines actually protect his lab and him if he felt these were justified concerns.

Baltar is scum. But Starbuck is really making a play to try and be equally reprehensible.

Shadow WarChief · Post by **Shadow WarChief** » 2006-12-18 12:50am

DPDarkPrimus wrote:
Shadow WarChief wrote:
He cooperated with all the plans the Cylons had for New Caprcia, was complicit in the formation of the NCP and was an accessory to serial detention, torture and personally signed the death warrant for hundreds of people.
He was obviously in the dark about a lot of what was going on at the detention center, and he signed that death warrant only after they put a freaking gun to his head.

Yes. But nobody, with the possible exception of Gaeta, knew that Baltar was a glorified puppet. From the POV of the characters, he was a willing participant in all these actions. Tigh thought there was a "mastermind" in the administration, directing all its actions during the occupation. He mistakenly thought it to be Gaeta, but with Gaeta's position as the Source revealed, there isn't anyone else to take the position of "mastermind" besides Gaius.

Crazedwraith · Post by **Crazedwraith** » 2006-12-18 09:46am

I'm glad Athena/Helo now knew Hera's alive. Plus that Adama didn't know.

Not a fan of Kara/Lee. And hope for more from the Boomer/Athena. These two are more or less polar opposites from each other and I'd like to see more conversation between them on why they're doing what they're doing.

Imagine if Boomer defected back to the Galactica, oh the fun they could have.

Turin · Post by **Turin** » 2006-12-18 10:11am

(Late to post)
I'll give this one a 3.5/5. There were a couple of elements I really liked and a few I was meh about:

1. I don't mind the love triangle plot inherently, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for any of the people involved in it except for Sam. Apollo is just an idiot for not seeing Starbuck for who she really is, Starbuck is a self-destructive sociopath (reminds me of my ex, bleh), and it really seems like Dee is enabling Lee's cheating, rather than confronting him on it (although of the 3, I have the most sympathy for Dee). I'd like to see Dee stand up to Apollo on this and really put him to the fire. He deserves it, and he might be recoverable as a decent human being if she can straighten him out. I'll confess I'd rather not have Starbuck die, even though it'll never happen, because there'd be half a dozen episodes following it with angsty whining over her death.

2. Anyone notice the music when Tyrol entered the temple? It was the "Head Six" theme, except on the taiko drums. I don't know if we've heard it before, but it was an awesome touch. That whole establishing shot was properly awe-inspiring in general. I also liked the little throwaway bit about how lousy the algae planet was, like that it stinks or that everyone is grimy and sweaty under the alien sun.

3. Despite being usually turned off by messianic plot themes (they're overdone in sci-fi), I really do like the Baltar subplot. He's such a terrible human being, but he's been written in such a way that I can't help but feel sympathy with him, not matter how absurd that seems. That being said, the writing and the acting in the scene where Deana tells Caprica that they're little threesome is over was wretched. The repetition of the "chosen one" line was like being beaten over the head with the theme. And none of #3's lines make a damn lick of sense. Why can't Caprica be a part of their exploration of God? Why is Deana hiding everything from all the other cylons? The actors made wooden deliveries of wooden lines, which was unusual for that group. Painful to watch.

4. EJO still chews up the scenery in every scene he's in. When he stands toe-to-toe with #3 and tells him "these are my terms," it gave me chills. And I loved that Adama just walked out on Roslyn while she was trying to explain her reasoning about Hera... Adama may be a pragmatic sonofabitch, but he's also a good man.

5. Okay, and the "BIG 'SPLOSION!!! RAR! LOL!!!11" part of me really liked the scene when the nukes were armed.

Post by **Vympel** » 2006-12-18 10:22am

5. Okay, and the "BIG 'SPLOSION!!! RAR! LOL!!!11" part of me really liked the scene when the nukes were armed.

I love it how there's a convenient empty space on the dorsal surface of Galactica that's revealed to actually be a concealed bank of missile day doors, submarine style

That shot also showed some pretty major hull damage close-up- holes in the hull, not just scars and scorches- and even bent/ melted "ribs".

My hope is that the nukes aren't pointed at the planet at all. They're pointed at the Basestars, and blow 3 out of 4 to kingdom come (gotta save Hera ...)

Post by **NecronLord** » 2006-12-18 11:47am

I just watch this show for the consistant waves of awesome radiated by EJO and Michael Hogan, and tune out much of the rest. So the various love triangles don't get to me that much.

Well, having watched that, when Tyrol says "where is that fracking Eye?" what're the things below the 'sun' glyph that start flashing? They look like explosives, but I don't recall seeing them placed. Anyone got a decent picture of them?

Turin · Post by **Turin** » 2006-12-18 12:10pm

They're explosive charges, set by Tyrol and his gang. That's what Tyrol was doing right before his whole monologue about "and I'm going to blow it up."

CaptJodan · Post by **CaptJodan** » 2006-12-18 12:17pm

NecronLord wrote:I just watch this show for the consistant waves of awesome radiated by EJO and Michael Hogan, and tune out much of the rest.

Tigh has already had his character shitted on six ways from sunday, but I'm worried about what RDM is going to do to Adama to try and villify him again. We saw him as a villin during the Roslin coup, but since that time he's been a fairly consistent source of likeability. RDM doesn't want any of his characters to be too good or too perfect. Of course Adama should make mistakes, but I worry about what he might do with the Adama character JUST to make sure that he doesn't get too "cool".

Sam Or I · Post by **Sam Or I** » 2006-12-18 03:39pm

4.5/5

I really enjoyed this episode. I do not mind the Lee/Starbuck love rectangle thing. Although it is the weakest part of this episode. I've got a bad feeling for Anders...

Lee has had a thing for her since the begining. Apollo is messed up for settling for Dee, but that is just it, he settled and I don't think he is really happy. Heck have they showed any good times between the Lee/Dee relationship? Actually they have not shown much of the relationship at all, which kinda bugs me. He has always saw Starbuck as the girl he wants, anything else seems to be settling for him.

Starbuck is frakked in the head, and a slut.

Adama is awesome, lots "classic Adama scenes" in this episode. When he tells Xena the way it is going to be, I loved it. His reaction to the President not telling Athena about her child, loved it. The whole president thinking Adama was bluffing then him prepping the nukes, loved it. Adama is the reason it got 4.5 instead of a 4 in my book.

The Boomer/Athena scene was great, but it seemed to short, I wanted more,

Nuclear Missiles, finally we get to see them from a Battlestar. (They were the big weapons of the oBSG.) As for the amount, I assume the Pegasus had some on board. Now all we know is the minimum number, the Galactica could have more.

I like the Chiefs story arc. Adds some depth. Dancing around naked with porno mags in a temple. I was busting up.

I felt bad for Baltar, that little weasely bastard.

Zac Naloen · Post by **Zac Naloen** » 2006-12-18 04:03pm

Tigh has already had his character shitted on six ways from sunday, but I'm worried about what RDM is going to do to Adama to try and villify him again. We saw him as a villin during the Roslin coup, but since that time he's been a fairly consistent source of likeability. RDM doesn't want any of his characters to be too good or too perfect. Of course Adama should make mistakes, but I worry about what he might do with the Adama character JUST to make sure that he doesn't get too "cool".

Pfft, he was cool even during the coup scenario.

Aeolus · Post by **Aeolus** » 2006-12-18 04:53pm

Has anyone else noticed how close this episode is to the old BSG where they are on Kobol? Baltar heading towards a planet that has a map to earth. A team on the surface facing a cylon attack. Apollo and starbucks respective lovers on said planet in danger.
In the original baltar was betrayed by lucifer and the map was destroyed before they could get an accurate placement of Earth. Then after the attack was over Apollo's wife was killed by a cylon that was presumed destroyed.
At first I thought they were setting up Anders to be killed but if he dies Starbucks problem is solved. What about Dee? If she gets killed and Anders lives it serves to make Apollo even more guilty and fracked up while leaving Starbucks problems in place....

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nBSG Episode 311: "The Eye of Jupiter"...

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