Questions Regarding the Imperium of Man...

Vehrec · Post by **Vehrec** » 2006-04-25 11:39pm

Hmmm. Maybe the Asteroid that impacted the earth was a delivery vector used by the C'tan to spread the prototype Pariah gene. It was in us even before we were primates. . . Or maybe the Dinosaurs WERE the Old Ones. . . Ok, thats a bit far fetched even for 40K.

NRS Guardian · Post by **NRS Guardian** » 2006-04-26 12:12am

If you take a page from Fantasy Warhammer the dinosaurs could be Lizardmen servants of the Old Ones.

lance · Post by **lance** » 2006-04-26 01:37am

How alien does an alien have to be for it to be considered not human? My understanding is that their are brute men and fish men, so would say, a planet of elves, that look like a human with pointy ears, be exterminated?

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-04-26 02:06am

lance wrote:How alien does an alien have to be for it to be considered not human? My understanding is that their are brute men and fish men, so would say, a planet of elves, that look like a human with pointy ears, be exterminated?

They don't look like humans. There is some superficial resemblance, but their facial bone structure is quite different, and upon dissection they're entirely too different to qualify. And the Imperium WILL send a magos to dissect specimens, willing or not.

Never mind all their advanced tech, wraithbone, and the whole 'we're better than you, mon-keigh' attitude...

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2006-04-26 02:22am

There are a number of offshoots of humanity which are tolerated and allowed to live as there not considered a threat; Ratlings, Ogryns, Squats(when they existed).

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2006-04-26 08:29am

Written by Lord Zentei

They were not the Tau; their variance in morphology was much greater; for instance, there were fast attack warriors that were bred to be as fast overland as bikes, etc. Moreover, they were destroyed 11000 years ago, whereas the Tau develped their civilization within the past two or three thousand years.

Sorry, Lord Zentei, I never said that lost race mentioned in the codex fluff were the Tau I merely said they were like the Tau. I know that they were both different races that were seperated by thousands of years, only that the nameless race were eradicated by the Imperium and the Tau continues to live.

technomage · Post by **technomage** » 2006-04-26 06:19pm

Brother-Captain Gaius wrote:I would argue that the Age of Strife can rather easily be said to be caused by the Fall of the Eldar and Slaanesh's pre-birth thrashings, which caused massive Warp storms throughout the galaxy, in turn causing Warp travel to be utterly impossible (and later it would still be exceedingly difficult of course, requiring the Astronomicon), which in turn caused human civilization to implode as all interstellar relations were cut off abruptly. All ca. 25000, 26000, somewhere around there.

It was at this point the Emperor realized he needed to take a direct hand in guiding Humanity, as Chaos was simply growing too powerful and Humanity too human to be trusted with themselves. The rest of course is history: The Emperor reunites Terra with the first proto-Space Marines, works on Primarchs, blah blah blah, Slaanesh born, Eldar all but annihilated, Great Crusade, all that jazz.

The fall of the Eldar, the rise of Slaanesh, and the creation of the Eye of Terror have, AFAIK, nothing to do with the end of the Dark Age. They do have a lot to do with the end of the Age of Strife and the inception of the Imperium however, as it was Slaanesh's birth that actually dispersed the Warp storms that had cut off Terra from the rest of the galaxy, trapping the Emperor in the Sol System. He conquered/reunited Earth and Mars, but couldn't go farther until after Slaanesh arose.

But Slaanesh's development being one of the contributing causes of the collapse... hmmm. Now that's an interesting idea.

Dominus · Post by **Dominus** » 2006-04-26 06:53pm

technomage wrote:The fall of the Eldar, the rise of Slaanesh, and the creation of the Eye of Terror have, AFAIK, nothing to do with the end of the Dark Age. They do have a lot to do with the end of the Age of Strife and the inception of the Imperium however, as it was Slaanesh's birth that actually dispersed the Warp storms that had cut off Terra from the rest of the galaxy, trapping the Emperor in the Sol System. He conquered/reunited Earth and Mars, but couldn't go farther until after Slaanesh arose.

But Slaanesh's development being one of the contributing causes of the collapse... hmmm. Now that's an interesting idea.

From what I recall, the Dark Age of Technology was brought down by the sudden realization of humanity's (heretofore dormant) psychic potential. The sudden outbreak of psykers caused mass confusion and hysteria on a galactic scale, and civilization starts to disintegrate under the stress of widespread insanity, daemonic possession, and internecine strife between these new 'psykers' and the rest of humanity. Countless fanatical cults and organisations spring up to persecute the psykers as witches, and/or degenerate mutants... and so on and so forth. The rest, as they say, is history.

Currald · Post by **Currald** » 2006-04-27 10:22pm

I concurr. Several planets were destroyed entirely when out-of-control psykers became gateways for the warp.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2006-04-28 03:30am

Is the Emperor of Man supposedly the most powerful psyker in human history and is almost essentially a god? And when he finally "dies" the Emperor finally ascends to true god hood (in theory).

Until then the Emperor is stored on ice in his golden coffin, which is locked inside a huge fortress palace the size of Northern Europe that is guarded by a zillion troops.

And are their any unsavoury elements within the Imperium's byzantine style government that want to keep the Emperor in stasis so that they keep ultimate power on a permanent basis?

Dominus · Post by **Dominus** » 2006-04-28 04:15am

Big Orange wrote:And are their any unsavoury elements within the Imperium's byzantine style government that want to keep the Emperor in stasis so that they keep ultimate power on a permanent basis?

Hey, don't insult the Eastern Roman Empire. Don’t forget that Byzantium's government was rather far more advanced than its European contemporaries for the vast majority of its long existence, and the comparison isn't valid at all.

The Imperium has much more in common with the Ostrogoths than it does with poor Byzantium in any regard.

As to the rest of your question, I do believe there's an excerpt from some random short story detailing some sort of dialogue between a high-ranking Inquisitor and (I think) a High Lord -- or some equally pompous bureaucrat -- where the issue of the Emperor's resurrection is brought up. It's rather heavily implied that the High Lords won't be bringing the Emperor back anytime soon -- even if a regeneration process proves viable in the future -- and will actively seek to oppose such measures, as to do so would destabilize the very fabric of the Imperium and will probably result in a massive civil war between religious fundamentalists of varying stripes, and so on and so forth...

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-28 04:50am

You know, ages ago I figured the whole 'Emperor - who's dead - cleared the Warp storms and made FTL safe for humans' thing was just a coincidence, since the Warp cleared up everywhere after the Fall of the Eldar. Course, they were never going to turn off the Emperor to find out...

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » 2006-04-28 04:55am

Stark wrote:You know, ages ago I figured the whole 'Emperor - who's dead - cleared the Warp storms and made FTL safe for humans' thing was just a coincidence, since the Warp cleared up everywhere after the Fall of the Eldar. Course, they were never going to turn off the Emperor to find out...

But then, how will they navigate? The Astronomicon is, to my knowledge, vital for a Novator to maintain ease of, err, navigation through the Warp.

Xon · Post by **Xon** » 2006-04-28 05:25am

Dominus wrote:Countless fanatical cults and organisations spring up to persecute the psykers as witches, and/or degenerate mutants... and so on and so forth. The rest, as they say, is history.

This would also explain why the AI/robots apparently turned on humanity after so long of dedicated service.

It doesnt take an idiot to realize that uncontrolled psykers in WH40k in a death-sentance for whatever planet they are one. Not knowing how to controll them, and not having the time to figure it out, the easiest way would be just to kill them.

In all likelyhood, uncontrolled psykers where a clear and present danger that the AI had to combat or risk the annihilation of the human species.

Stark · Post by **Stark** » 2006-04-28 05:25am

I'm not disputing it's utility, just that it was cute reading about how the Imperials thought their Emperor cleaned up the galaxy, when there was a much more likely explanation that they didn't know about at the time. But I've never been a 40k fan, and I'm certainly less so now.

Setzer · Post by **Setzer** » 2006-04-28 07:19am

The Species in Question was called the Laer, IIRC. They pissed Fulgrim off by saying, essentially, "so, you love perfection, right? We wanna be perfect too. look at how well we're doing it." Some in the Administratum they could be made a protectorate, but Fulgrim would never accept a species that laid claim to the perfection that, in his recloning, only humanity had a right to. He said in one month's time, the Eagle would fly over Laeran.

Their home system, Laeran, was the only system they possessed, but tey were still able to put up an amazing fight against Fulgrim's legion. The Enperor's Children lost 700 marines, and may have lost as many as 5,000 were it not for their apothecaries' skill with the wounded. IIRC, a pre-heresy Astartes legion numbered some 10,000. Sure enough, one month later, the Laer were exterminated, and the Emperor had another world. In the 41st millenium, Laer has a number of mining and farming worlds, and no sign at all of its former inhabitants.

Big Orange · Post by **Big Orange** » 2006-04-28 10:41pm

So Fulgrim wiped out an entire alien culture on the basis of them slighting him? And this was like before he officially fell to Chaos and he was a bad apple even then?

Base Delta Zero · Post by **Base Delta Zero** » 2006-04-28 11:15pm

How alien does an alien have to be for it to be considered not human?

Not much. Pretty much anything sentient that's a different species (different evolutions) is fair game. They also happen to be enemies by default. Of course, the Imperium does even worse things to its human enemies...

My understanding is that their are brute men and fish men,

The Ogryn, Ratlings, etc are mutants, not aliens, i.e. descended from humans. Even so, they are second class at best and only allowed to live because they're useful.

...would say, a planet of elves, that look like a human with pointy ears, be exterminated?

They would, and they have. (Tried, at least) The only reason any alien race hasn't been exterminated is because the Imperium either can't or can't be bothered.

So Fulgrim wiped out an entire alien culture on the basis of them slighting him? And this was like before he officially fell to Chaos and he was a bad apple even then?

No, he wasn't a bad apple by current Imperium standards. Wiping out alien races because they're there is now SOP.

This was pre-horus, and the Emperor didn't really care about alien races, as long as humanity was dominant, but they'd be wiped out if they got in the way. Of course, the Laerans comments were a grave offense to the Emperor's plan anyways.

These guys are evil, very, very, evil.

But then, how will they navigate? The Astronomicon is, to my knowledge, vital for a Novator to maintain ease of, err, navigation through the Warp.

Isn't the Astronomicon maintained by a small legion of psykers, rather than the Emperor?

Adrian Laguna · Post by **Adrian Laguna** » 2006-04-29 12:13am

Base Delta Zero wrote:Isn't the Astronomicon maintained by a small legion of psykers, rather than the Emperor?

~10,000 psykers die per day helping the Emperor keep it up. They don't do it by themselves.

Base Delta Zero · Post by **Base Delta Zero** » 2006-04-29 02:58pm

According to my Fluff Bible, it's 10,000 psykers maintaining it with about 100 dying every day. Funnily enough, it never actually mentioned the Emperor being involved...

Elheru Aran · Post by **Elheru Aran** » 2006-04-29 03:00pm

Base Delta Zero wrote:According to my Fluff Bible, it's 10,000 psykers maintaining it with about 100 dying every day. Funnily enough, it never actually mentioned the Emperor being involved...

The Astronomican, as mentioned in the foreword to all post-Heresy 40K books, is the 'psychic manifestation of the Emperor's Will'. The psykers' function is to keep that manifestation broadcast into the Warp, fuel for the lighthouse so to speak.

andrewgpaul · Post by **andrewgpaul** » 2006-04-29 04:24pm

As I understandit, the psykers provide the power, while the Emperor, or what's left of his consciousness, uses that power to create the beacon.

technomage · Post by **technomage** » 2006-04-29 05:05pm

andrewgpaul wrote:As I understandit, the psykers provide the power, while the Emperor, or what's left of his consciousness, uses that power to create the beacon.

Pretty much.

To clarify with the Ogryns, Ratlings, etc: All stable human subraces (meaning they breed true, are descended from Earth, and pay homage to the Golden Throne) are generally allowed to live. Ogryns, Ratlings, Beastmen, Squats, etc, are not mutants per se, but are called Abhumans. Mutants are the genetically unstable freaks. For Abhumans, how they're treated depends on several factors. Squats were repsected and valued, for example, while Beastmen catch hell, but are still higher on the pecking order than mutants.

Lost Soal · Post by **Lost Soal** » 2006-04-29 06:19pm

Beastmen are creatures of Chaos, they are killed on sight my any military forces of the Imperium. Mutants might just be left alone, beastmen will never be tolerated.

18-Till-I-Die · Post by **18-Till-I-Die** » 2006-04-29 07:49pm

WRT the Astronomican...

From the large tomes of Fluff i've read, it seems to imply the Psykers are fed to the Emperor HIMSELF, as a source of energy which powers the actual life-support mechanisms in the Golden Throne and/or allow the Emperor's mind to remain in his body.

The Astronomican, is powered by the Emperor's psychic energy, with him acting as a kind of battery, while in turn being fueled by the psykers. It appears to be a kind of symbiotic relationship: without the Astronomican the Black Ships cant navigate and bring psykers to Earth, psykers which feed the Emperor and allow him to live on and fuel the Astronomican.

Mind you this was implied by some pretty old Fluff so it may be discounted by the newer stuff.