Damn you WH40K

[Azazal]

I'm one of the many who would get involved in the Tabletop if not for the ridiculous amount of money and time I'd have to spend on it, as as I'm a starving college student right now, that doesn't work very well.[/i]

Been there, an I feel your pain. That's why I like the kill team rules, a nice easy way to play 40k with out killing your bank account. Other option is Necromunda, the rulebook is free, and all you need to play are a few minis.

Couldn't you for instance just use little green army men and buy some cheap ass action figures in the bargain basement bin (hell you could use clone trooper figures) and agree with the other guy you're playing what each figure represnts i.e. Clonetroopers = Space Marines, Green Army men equal Imperial Army, etc and save yourself a ton of time in terms of painting and cost?

I know that part of the whole point is to have an army that looks like the ones in the game book and there is a certain fun in painting and setting up your army but if you really are strapped for cash and wanna play you shouldn't let something silly like overpriced models get in the way of enjoying yourself.

if you didn't want to be a purist, sure you could do that..

No really, what ever works for you I would be cool with. I've played with people that have used coins to be troops. I've know some people that refuse to play against some one because a single figure wasn't painted, the rest of the army was, but not that one new fig. I always thought that was just a touch on the childish side.

As long as it is easy to tell who has what, I wouldn't care. Hell I've done it too, why pay for a model/figure that you're not sure of in the game. Put in a sub and play a few times before deciding.

[Keevan_Colton]

I'm one of the many who would get involved in the Tabletop if not for the ridiculous amount of money and time I'd have to spend on it, as as I'm a starving college student right now, that doesn't work very well.[/i]

Been there, an I feel your pain. That's why I like the kill team rules, a nice easy way to play 40k with out killing your bank account. Other option is Necromunda, the rulebook is free, and all you need to play are a few minis.

And it's a kick ass game too. It's always been my favourite of the GW games.

[Elheru Aran]

Couldn't you for instance just use little green army men and buy some cheap ass action figures in the bargain basement bin (hell you could use clone trooper figures) and agree with the other guy you're playing what each figure represnts i.e. Clonetroopers = Space Marines, Green Army men equal Imperial Army, etc and save yourself a ton of time in terms of painting and cost?

I know that part of the whole point is to have an army that looks like the ones in the game book and there is a certain fun in painting and setting up your army but if you really are strapped for cash and wanna play you shouldn't let something silly like overpriced models get in the way of enjoying yourself.

It's not quite the 'done' thing per se... normally one only uses a proxy army like that if they filled out an army list and didn't have time to acquire some new units. However, I imagine for informal games and beginners it would be acceptable.

Incidentally, Stravo, if you're interested in getting some more 40K material, just PM me-- already obliged NeoGoomba.

[Lazarus]

Same here, I've got loadsa SM stuff, and about a platoon of guard which I want to sell. Overseas might be a teeney bit tricky though, I haven't posted abroad before.

Those stingwings in the Tau list just look like pure Marine killers to me: jump them all the way to the marines behind cover so they don't get shot, then hop out and blast the shit out of them with AP3 weapons.

Concerning army men, GW in the UK don't let you use non-GW figures, and as of mid last year everything had to be painted to play it (before it was just at least undercoated). Bit of a bitch for some people, but I always painted anyway. As far as using subs, I used to do that sometimes, just say at the start of the game 'this heavy bolter guy is actually a plasma gunner in disguise, its a clever space marine plot' or whatever.

[Lord Zentei]

Those stingwings in the Tau list just look like pure Marine killers to me: jump them all the way to the marines behind cover so they don't get shot, then hop out and blast the shit out of them with AP3 weapons.

They are at that, though don't expect them to survive the battle: their guns are only short range Assault:1 and they certainly will not survive the inevitble return rapid firing bolter barrage. Unless the opponent has foolishly planted his forces such that they don't cover each other. (And what can one expect from 16 points?)

However, they are also Fleet of Wing, and can re-roll difficult terrain tests. More importantly, unlike the Kroot, they can benefit from markerlights. Plug two markerlights on a space marine unit, and they'll be hitting on a 2+ and wounding on a 3+, with AP:3.

[Currald]

As far as balance goes, yeah, some armies aren't as good as others. Kroot Mercenaries are at the bottom of the heap, and Orks aren't exactly stellar, either, unless it's a huge horde of feral madboyz. 13th Company aren't too hot. Most of the others are reasonably competative, with the Eldar having the best win-loss ratio in recent tournaments.

[SAMAS]

6). Battlesuits can take targeting systems like vehicles (+1 BS) for 5 points.

10 points.

7). Skimmers can take landing gear.

But only the Pirhana doesn't already come with them.

. Stealthsuits can take 0-2 fusion blasters.

Actually, it's one out of every three suits in the team.

Also, they can take a single support system, but if one takes a system(outside the Leader/Shas'vre) then they all do, although they don't have to take the same one

9). O'Shovah can take 1-7 Crisis bodyguards.

And his army gets Preferred Enemy against Orks.

You also forgot:

10). Devilfish can take Smart Missiles.

11). Pathfinders with Rail Rifles automatically get Target Locks, and they no longer overheat.

Also a few downgrades:

1). There is no "team leader" for the fire-warriors. It's a Shas'ui or nothing.

Battlesuits can still take them, though.

2). Ethereals now require line of sight for their mojo to work. Bah.

But if they die, the Tau get Preferred Enemy for the rest of the game.

New units:

1). Pihrana fast skimmer 1-5 per squadron with armour 11 on the front and a burst cannon (upgradable to fusion blaster). 60 points. Very nice.

And the drones.

2). Skyray missile defence ship, uses the Hammerhead chassis. It has two networked markerlights, six seeker missiles and a secondary weapon system (smart missiles or burst cannons). Neat, but at 125 points they are too expensive.

They're more expensive than an Ion Head, but less than a Rail Head. But still a bit expensive for what is basically two more Markerlights and an extra anti-troop weapon.

4). Ethereals can have an Honour Guard - fire warriors with +2 BS at +2 points.

Don't we wish! Unfortunately, they only get +1 BS. Of course, giving the Ethereal or the Honor Guard Shas'ui a Marker drone or two changes that...

5). Sniper drones. One Tau fire warrior spotter with a markerlight and stealthfield, three drones with a rail rifle and target lock, and they have BS3. Three such teams may be taken as a single Heavy Support choice (so they can potentially pin NINE units per turn). 80 points per team.

And you can have up to three teams per Heavy Suppourt Slot.

Also, Special Issue gear: Kinda the Tau equivalent of Demon Weapons and such.

Failsafe Detonator - A Self-destruct device given to Battlesuit leaders.
Airbursting Frag Projector - A short-ranged (18') guess weapon with the large blast template. Good for horde armies.
Cyclic Ion Blaster - A S3, Assult 5 weapon that gets an AP of 1 if you roll a 6 to wound. Also good against hordes.
Positional Relay - One unit in reserve can come in each round on a 2+, but only one unit per round.

[Utsanomiko]

I got into Warhammer 40k in December, after getting Dawn of War for my birthday in the beginning of last year. I spent a couple evenings for a month reading about it on the Wiki and articles on fan sites, and decided to look for places that sold figures for less than GW's absurd prices (they're barely stocked in the local hobby shops, anyhow). I picked up 20 primed Marines off Ebay for $36 and found a store selling the Marines Battleforce for $74, and went from there.

I also got lucky with Barnes & Noble selling their stuff on clearnace (never even know they carried Warhammer miniatures) and bought like 650 points of Tyranids for about thirty-five dollars, but that was pure unplanned luck.

[Lord Zentei]

6). Battlesuits can take targeting systems like vehicles (+1 BS) for 5 points.

10 points.

So it is, my bad. Just leads to show when you try and go by memory.

7). Skimmers can take landing gear.

But only the Pirhana doesn't already come with them.

Quite so. That's why I specified that they can take landing gear. Sheesh.

. Stealthsuits can take 0-2 fusion blasters.

Actually, it's one out of every three suits in the team.

Ah, yes, more memory lapses. Though they can have up to six suits per team, that's where I got the figure from, most likely.

9). O'Shovah can take 1-7 Crisis bodyguards.

And his army gets Preferred Enemy against Orks.

You also forgot:

10). Devilfish can take Smart Missiles.

11). Pathfinders with Rail Rifles automatically get Target Locks, and they no longer overheat.

I hadn't planned on transcribing the whole codex, you know . Still, good upgrades that deserve to be mentioned. And they should be #11 and #12.

1). There is no "team leader" for the fire-warriors. It's a Shas'ui or nothing.

Battlesuits can still take them, though.

Ya, hence the specification on "fire warriors".

2). Ethereals now require line of sight for their mojo to work. Bah.

But if they die, the Tau get Preferred Enemy for the rest of the game.

Though true, it is not exactly a sensible strategy to exploit - even with preferred enemy, the Tau don't exactly rock in h-h. So frankly I don't see it as much of a bonus.

New units:

1). Pihrana fast skimmer 1-5 per squadron with armour 11 on the front and a burst cannon (upgradable to fusion blaster). 60 points. Very nice.

And the drones.

Indeed.

2). Skyray missile defence ship, uses the Hammerhead chassis. It has two networked markerlights, six seeker missiles and a secondary weapon system (smart missiles or burst cannons). Neat, but at 125 points they are too expensive.

They're more expensive than an Ion Head, but less than a Rail Head. But still a bit expensive for what is basically two more Markerlights and an extra anti-troop weapon.

The main advantage would be to fire upon multiple units simultaneously with the seekers - but those run out pretty quickly. The markerlights can be provided much more efficiently by other units.

4). Ethereals can have an Honour Guard - fire warriors with +2 BS at +2 points.

Don't we wish! Unfortunately, they only get +1 BS. Of course, giving the Ethereal or the Honor Guard Shas'ui a Marker drone or two changes that...

LOL!!! That was actually a typo. And while you and my brother may wish that, I don't.

5). Sniper drones. One Tau fire warrior spotter with a markerlight and stealthfield, three drones with a rail rifle and target lock, and they have BS3. Three such teams may be taken as a single Heavy Support choice (so they can potentially pin NINE units per turn). 80 points per team.

And you can have up to three teams per Heavy Suppourt Slot.

I did specify that - see bolded.

Also, Special Issue gear: Kinda the Tau equivalent of Demon Weapons and such.

Failsafe Detonator - A Self-destruct device given to Battlesuit leaders.
Airbursting Frag Projector - A short-ranged (18') guess weapon with the large blast template. Good for horde armies.
Cyclic Ion Blaster - A S3, Assult 5 weapon that gets an AP of 1 if you roll a 6 to wound. Also good against hordes.
Positional Relay - One unit in reserve can come in each round on a 2+, but only one unit per round.

Ah, yes, the special issue stuff. I had actually mentioned the ejection system and stimulant injector, though. Don't forget the vectored retro thrusters for Hit and Run ability, the Command and Control node for giving Tau within 12" the character's Leadership for Target Priority. The 2+ irridium armour is a mite quesionable in utility since the battlesuit becomes slower as a result.

[Chris OFarrell]

Started playing DOW. Four scenarios non stop I couldn't put the damn thing down. For the Emperor indeed. And Orks are just hilarious (if not annoying) enemies. What a bargain and I can't believe I missed this game the first time around.

DOW is such great fun.

Whats brilliant is the way it captures the spirt of the universe and tabletop game. WITHOUT trying to simply be a computerised version of said tabletop game.

And the characters are just a hoot. My favorite line still has to be:

Gabrial: "Ah. I see our guest has arrived.
Sgnt: "Who is he?"
Gabrial: "Inquisitor Toth, protector of the emperors Word and will.
Sgnt: "An inquisitor? Here? Does he suspect one of us of heresy?"
Gabrial: "He is an Inquisitor. They suspect everyone of heresy....

It just so perfectly sums up the Inquisistion.

And all the unit quotes (ESPECIALY the Marines and Orks) are just fucking perfect.

[Lord Zentei]

I got into Warhammer 40k in December, after getting Dawn of War for my birthday in the beginning of last year. I spent a couple evenings for a month reading about it on the Wiki and articles on fan sites, and decided to look for places that sold figures for less than GW's absurd prices (they're barely stocked in the local hobby shops, anyhow). I picked up 20 primed Marines off Ebay for $36 and found a store selling the Marines Battleforce for $74, and went from there.

I also got lucky with Barnes & Noble selling their stuff on clearnace (never even know they carried Warhammer miniatures) and bought like 650 points of Tyranids for about thirty-five dollars, but that was pure unplanned luck.

The core of my first Eldar force was a used but painted army of what would now be around 1000 points that I got for what would amount to about $200 or so. Of course, by curent standards, they look a mite archaic. I have no idea how much I have spent on that hobby throughout the years.

And because I apparently suffered a literacy brainfart:

7). Skimmers can take landing gear.

But only the Pirhana doesn't already come with them.

Quite so. That's why I specified that they can take landing gear. Sheesh.

DUH, sorry about that, SAMAS.

[Stravo]

I just finished DOW. First of all fucking AWESOME. Great game and wonderful scenarios. But I was left hanging by the ending. The Deamon is released and then....end credits. God damn it!! I was fully expecting a Starcraft like campaign with an Ork and then maybe an Eldar series of missions that followed the Space Marine missions.

I'm asusming Winter Assault that came bundled with my DOW picks up the campaign where DOW left off? I'm curious as to how different it will be playing as guardsmen compared to Marines. They certainly struck me as pure cannon fodder in DOW.

Damnit. I wanted more.

[Elheru Aran]

I'm asusming Winter Assault that came bundled with my DOW picks up the campaign where DOW left off? I'm curious as to how different it will be playing as guardsmen compared to Marines. They certainly struck me as pure cannon fodder in DOW.

Damnit. I wanted more.

Afraid that doesn't happen.

Spoilerized--
I haven't played through the 'Order' and 'Disorder' campaigns in WA yet, but the mission is essentially, there's a Titan on some planet, and both sides are trying to get it.

Really, your best bet after you finish WA are mods... DoW is proving to be one of the more popular games for mods, and it's doing very well in that respect. I highly recommend the Steel Legion mod, personally.

[Captain Cyran]

I'm assuming Winter Assault that came bundled with my DOW picks up the campaign where DOW left off? I'm curious as to how different it will be playing as guardsmen compared to Marines. They certainly struck me as pure cannon fodder in DOW.

As Elheru said, WA is another setting entirely and the campaign will get annoying as you may find yourself having to switch to a different race in the middle of the scenario. (I don't like playing as Orks or Eldar so switching to them was very annoying.) Playing Guardsmen is a bit different, there's a lot more focus on getting the vehicles out to ruin your enemies day. As for cannon fodder, not so much in terms of ability (in some cases) as it is they have so many that loosing a few hundred isn't much of a problem. Though I don't see how you considered them cannon fodder considering if you gave them 5 grenade launchers they would be able to handily deal with almost any Ork wave that came their way.

As for mods, Steel Legion is a good one to pick up, they just released their WA version. If you're looking to see the rest of the army units in the Army Painter mode pick up the Painter Mod, it's fun. My personal favorite is the Depth of Heresy: Cadian Gate mod, so far it's only modded Chaos, Space Marines, and the Imperial Guard, but next mod coming from them will add the Eldar.

[Hawkwings]

so I picked up the core rulebook and the Space Marines and Imperial Guard codexes from a friend. Those were fun reads Except for the scenarios at the end of the core rulebook.

So I have to get one thing cleared up. I hear that an Imperial Guard army can outnumber every other army out there. Now, considering the ork and tyranid armies, is this true?

[Utsanomiko]

Model-per-model, yes. A standard Imperial Guardsman is six points, the standard mission deployment being two infantry Platoons of 25 each and a 5-man Command platoon, for ~380 points minimum. Orks are 8-10 points each and only the absolute cheapest breeds of Tyranid Termagaunts are in the same point range, which you wouldn't use to the same degree as Guard platoons (plus Tyranids have plenty of big units like Tyrants, Carnifexes, Lictors, Warriors, etc).

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

In the core game, yes. Imperial Guard can spew out 330 Guardsmen in 6 Troops choices versus Orks getting about 180, Nids around the same. The Guardsmen are only 6 points each, too, the cheapest of the lot.

[Keevan_Colton]

so I picked up the core rulebook and the Space Marines and Imperial Guard codexes from a friend. Those were fun reads Except for the scenarios at the end of the core rulebook.

So I have to get one thing cleared up. I hear that an Imperial Guard army can outnumber every other army out there. Now, considering the ork and tyranid armies, is this true?

Conscripts.

[slebetman]

I'm one of the many who would get involved in the Tabletop if not for the ridiculous amount of money and time I'd have to spend on it, as as I'm a starving college student right now, that doesn't work very well.[/i]

Been there, an I feel your pain. That's why I like the kill team rules, a nice easy way to play 40k with out killing your bank account. Other option is Necromunda, the rulebook is free, and all you need to play are a few minis.

Couldn't you for instance just use little green army men and buy some cheap ass action figures in the bargain basement bin (hell you could use clone trooper figures) and agree with the other guy you're playing what each figure represnts i.e. Clonetroopers = Space Marines, Green Army men equal Imperial Army, etc and save yourself a ton of time in terms of painting and cost?

I know that part of the whole point is to have an army that looks like the ones in the game book and there is a certain fun in painting and setting up your army but if you really are strapped for cash and wanna play you shouldn't let something silly like overpriced models get in the way of enjoying yourself.

Back when I was playing WH40K I used to scratch-build stuff myself. Not the Marines obviously, that's hard work but vehicles & dreadnaughts. Don't tell GamesWorkshop this but the miniature catalog that you often find at the back of WhiteDwarf is perfect for copying. They are usually in 1:1 scale and sometimes the vehicles & dreadnaughts are shown in parts form.

I usually just photocopy a page, tape/pin/glue it to either styrofoam or soft rubber (large eraser) and carve away the parts with a good x-acto knife. Then simply glue the parts together with PVC glue (superglue melts foam) and paint. Citadel paint doesn't melt foam and you can use permanent marker pens to do "controlled melting" of foam to carve out details like skulls etc.

But as I said, you still need to buy toop figures unless your sculpting skill is good enough to actually sculpt figures, in which case you should work for GW . But it does make it cheaper to field an army with lots of vehicles (which is especially advantageous if you're playing Guardsmen).

[white_rabbit]

I just finished DOW. First of all fucking AWESOME. Great game and wonderful scenarios. But I was left hanging by the ending. The Deamon is released and then....end credits. God damn it!! I was fully expecting a Starcraft like campaign with an Ork and then maybe an Eldar series of missions that followed the Space Marine missions.

I'm asusming Winter Assault that came bundled with my DOW picks up the campaign where DOW left off? I'm curious as to how different it will be playing as guardsmen compared to Marines. They certainly struck me as pure cannon fodder in DOW.

Damnit. I wanted more.

Dark crusade should satisfy your desire for more DoW. I can't wait for the kick arse combats.


Can you imagine it ? Nightbringer/Avatar/Bloodthirster/Baneblade/Squiggoth/Tau superheavy all in one gigantic orgy of violence!