Orcish fantasy world invades modern Japan

[Archinist]

For a while, a fictional army of orcs and goblins have been invading earth every 400 years. They began invading in 416 A.D. and invaded all the way up to 1216 A.D. but cancelled their run in 1616 A.D. because they were growing tired of the same fight against helpless swordsmen and bowmen, and instead fought another world filled with tough demons and strange flying birds with powerful bronze-age weaponry. This was a great fight for them, and although they almost lost the portal territory to their homeland, they enjoyed it very much because they were orcs.

Now, in 2016 A.D. they are preparing to open the portal and invade once again, but they know from past experience that humanity likely hasn't progressed a significant amount from 1216 A.D. . So this time they are actually planning to completely wipe out humanity, so they can finally finish this world off and remove it from their portal console's archives.

The orcs are arrow-resistant and knife-resistant. They are equipped with heavy bulking bronze armour and have great weapons that spit fireballs. They work by taking a highly flammable, long-burning and toxic substance, dipping a small cannonball in it and loading it into a hand-cannon. The hand-cannon will then launch it using heated compressed air with a burning torch at the end of the muzzle, igniting the ball. Some variants of their hand-cannons may ignite the ball using sparks generated from using ignition rocks in the firing sequence or other methods, while other models are further enhanced by firing their balls with high-pressure steam.

The orcs have airships, which work by being supported by 2 dozen mechanical legs which suspend the ships 40 meters in the air. The legs are actually masses of rotors and pistons which use the power of superheated water vapours passed down from massive 'coal' furnaces in the lower decks of the airship. However, the coal is not actually coal as we know it, it is instead a highly flammable and explosive mineral which burns naturally at over 2800C for extended periods of time (over 24hrs for a handful). This coal, however can burn only in enclosed spaces, and exposure to outdoors will extinguish it.
I
The furnaces then use the coal to heat massive amounts of water which is then turned into superheated water vapour and is sprayed onto spinning turbines at high pressure, which provides mechanical power by turning hundreds of different wind-up gears and cogs, stored in giant banks of gears and elastic cables. However, these mechanical power banks only store power when unused for a short while, as a fully-'charged' bank will store it's energy for less than 3 hours.
I
Steam is then pumped into the pistons of the legs to stabilize them and prevent them from collapsing, while the mechanical energy stored in the banks is used to actually activate the pistons and cause them to move.
I
However, the airship cannot move continually for more than 20 minutes at a time, as the furnaces are slightly inefficient and the power banks lose more energy than the furnaces can charge them at, even when burning at the highest temperature. The airship requires a 3 hour charging period every time it's energy banks are discharged and cannot move during this period. The airship can achieve a max speed of 20 kph.
I
The airship is armoured with 100 mm of pure bronze coated around all of it's body. The bronze hull has also been reinforced 10 mm of melted, liquified wood spread like butter all over the interior of the hull. This is to increase structural integrity and overall armour strength and also looks very fancy, increasing orc morale.
I
The airship is armed with 1 main cannon and 2 catapults. The cannon fires a large, round ball of highly porous rock which is filled with something similar to greek fire. The cannon is powered by high-pressure steam launchers which launch the rock into the air with a max range of 70 meters and ignite the greek fire oil by muzzle-exit torches. The rock then disintegrates while in-flight, usually as it begins it's descent, causing the flaming oil to splatter out and rain down on the enemies below, coating the ground with greek fire. The orcs can reload the cannon in 5 minutes and store a maximum of 100 cannonballs on-board with enough oil for more than 100 shots.
I
The catapults are powered by the more traditional mechanical energy, provided manually by a team of 10 orcs per catapult, which also requires another 5 orcs to effectively fire the catapult. The catapults fire extremely brittle yet very circular ball-shaped hard rocks, covered in solid metal spikes similar to real life naval mines. The spikes are about 3 meters long, and are designed to impact the ground before the rock ball, and transmit powerful shockwaves from the force of hitting the ground into the rock ball, causing it to shatter with moderate force, sending many small bits of rock and dust flying into the air, with a range of 10 meters. The metal spikes are designed as to shatter the rock ball before it reaches the ground, so that the shrapnel flies a few meters above the ground, instead of straight into the ground. The catapults themselves have a range of about 50 meters.
I
While the airships are extremely powerful and well-armoured, they still have many weaknesses. If a boiler is even slightly penetrated by enemy fire, it will explode in a massive shockwave of energy that will destroy anything in a moderate radius. The legs can also be set off by penetrating their high-pressure pistons, which will severely weaken their joints and other vital points. However, the orcs are well-supplied, having over 300 airships at their disposal.


The orcs also experimental steam-powered scouting rockets which are capable of blasting off into the atmosphere, reaching a max altitude of 1000 meters, and are used as scouting rockets. However, the orcs have no landing capabilities, so the scouting research is required to be written down and stored into an extremely strong cabinet on the rocket, while the rocket itself plummets back down to earth and is destroyed. The crew is usually killed in this process, but they don't mind too much because they're orcs.


The orcs also have developed a close-quarters "shotgun" weapon, capable of firing many tiny particles of sharp metal at high velocity by using both pressured steam bottles, similar to ammunition magazines. The steam bottles, which can be used with mostly any hand-held steam weapon are pre-packaged bottles of pressurized steam stored into a liquid wood and bronze container. They are loaded into the firing chamber, sitting directly before the projectile of the weapon, while the weapon's chamber is sealed and the projectile is rammed tightly against the bottle.
I
When the firing mechanism is triggered, a sharp blade plunges into the bottle cap, breaching it and unleashing the pressurized steam, which smashes against the projectile, launching it at high velocity out of the weapon. In this case, a small case of many tiny metal shards is used, which first speeds forwards, the case keeping the projectiles in a usable state and not bouncing around the barrel, while at the near-end of the barrel, the barrel pipe is suddenly narrowed, stopping the case from moving forwards anymore, and launches the shrapnel out of the case and out of the muzzle, whereupon the projectiles quickly spread out and lose velocity and speed. The steam shotgun has a range of 2-3 meters.
I
The empty case inside the steam shotgun must be disposed of by re-opening the chamber and removing a side panel of the barrel, and manually removing the debris, which may require special tools if the case is stuck to the barrel. Afterwards, the steam shotgun can be reloaded by inserting another loaded case into a removable top-access panel which goes directly into the firing bay. The steam bottle can be simply unclipped and unscrewed after the firing mechanism has been re-wound, since the case cannot fit if the firing trigger is still down.

NOTES:

Most steam hand-held weapons take around the same time to reload from empty, about 5-10 minutes for a skilled user, and longer for a less skilled user. The steam weapons are also somewhat dangerous, and their steam bottles can be accidentally breached when reloading, as the firing mechanism is very easy to push forward by bumping it with a finger, usually causing severe damage to the orc reloading it.


The orc kingdom stretches to around 2,000 kilometers of dry land and 300 kilometers of non-dry water and liquid territory total. The orc population is about 6.9 million, all of which are either military or commanding personnel. Dwarves are used for production, and require very little to feed, only requiring 1 kilogram of raw vegetables and meat every year, along with normal water requirements. They can also produce things at a a rate generally many, many times as fast as a normal human, and instantly learn any new technologies from friendly forces. However, ONLY from friendly forces, meaning dwarves will have to be captured and completely subjugated before they can develop or produce anything for an opposing faction.


Provided with the correct resources, a single dwarf could produce 1 latest-model family sedan from hand in about 2 hours, with no machinery involved and from purely raw, unrefined resources with greater precision than an actual machine. However, the orc's blueprints and designs are very clunky and unsophisticated, so the dwarfs are usually very troubled when producing orc equipment, leading to a vastly slower production rate.

The dwarfish population is relatively small, with only 370,000 dwarfens in the orch kingdom, with another 200 orchs living in isolated huts. Dwarfens are physically frail, and a small human child of 10 years would have no problem killing at least 10 dwarfens on his own.


Orchs in full armor are also very durable, and require about 5 standard NATO 5.56 rounds to put down at the torso. They are also extremely confident and believe that the humans have no chance of even killing more than 30 orchs total with the extinction of all humans.

Mechanical power banks are also somewhat unstable, and have been known to destroy themselves randomly, sometimes even strangling nearby orcs to death with their ropes and cables, or crushing them with their mechanical energy.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

For a while, a fictional army of orcs and goblins have been invading earth every 400 years. They began invading in 416 A.D. and invaded all the way up to 1216 A.D. but cancelled their run in 1616 A.D. because they were growing tired of the same fight against helpless swordsmen and bowmen, and instead fought another world filled with tough demons and strange flying birds with powerful bronze-age weaponry. This was a great fight for them, and although they almost lost the portal territory to their homeland, they enjoyed it very much because they were orcs.

Now, in 2016 A.D. they are preparing to open the portal and invade once again, but they know from past experience that humanity likely hasn't progressed a significant amount from 1216 A.D. . So this time they are actually planning to completely wipe out humanity, so they can finally finish this world off and remove it from their portal console's archives.

The orcs are arrow-resistant and knife-resistant. They are equipped with heavy bulking bronze armour and have great weapons that spit fireballs. They work by taking a highly flammable, long-burning and toxic substance, dipping a small cannonball in it and loading it into a hand-cannon. The hand-cannon will then launch it using heated compressed air with a burning torch at the end of the muzzle, igniting the ball. Some variants of their hand-cannons may ignite the ball using sparks generated from using ignition rocks in the firing sequence or other methods, while other models are further enhanced by firing their balls with high-pressure steam.

The orcs have airships, which work by being supported by 2 dozen mechanical legs which suspend the ships 40 meters in the air. The legs are actually masses of rotors and pistons which use the power of superheated water vapours passed down from massive 'coal' furnaces in the lower decks of the airship. However, the coal is not actually coal as we know it, it is instead a highly flammable and explosive mineral which burns naturally at over 2800C for extended periods of time (over 24hrs for a handful). This coal, however can burn only in enclosed spaces, and exposure to outdoors will extinguish it.
I
The furnaces then use the coal to heat massive amounts of water which is then turned into superheated water vapour and is sprayed onto spinning turbines at high pressure, which provides mechanical power by turning hundreds of different wind-up gears and cogs, stored in giant banks of gears and elastic cables. However, these mechanical power banks only store power when unused for a short while, as a fully-'charged' bank will store it's energy for less than 3 hours.
I
Steam is then pumped into the pistons of the legs to stabilize them and prevent them from collapsing, while the mechanical energy stored in the banks is used to actually activate the pistons and cause them to move.
I
However, the airship cannot move continually for more than 20 minutes at a time, as the furnaces are slightly inefficient and the power banks lose more energy than the furnaces can charge them at, even when burning at the highest temperature. The airship requires a 3 hour charging period every time it's energy banks are discharged and cannot move during this period. The airship can achieve a max speed of 20 kph.
I
The airship is armoured with 100 mm of pure bronze coated around all of it's body. The bronze hull has also been reinforced 10 mm of melted, liquified wood spread like butter all over the interior of the hull. This is to increase structural integrity and overall armour strength and also looks very fancy, increasing orc morale.
I
The airship is armed with 1 main cannon and 2 catapults. The cannon fires a large, round ball of highly porous rock which is filled with something similar to greek fire. The cannon is powered by high-pressure steam launchers which launch the rock into the air with a max range of 70 meters and ignite the greek fire oil by muzzle-exit torches. The rock then disintegrates while in-flight, usually as it begins it's descent, causing the flaming oil to splatter out and rain down on the enemies below, coating the ground with greek fire. The orcs can reload the cannon in 5 minutes and store a maximum of 100 cannonballs on-board with enough oil for more than 100 shots.
I
The catapults are powered by the more traditional mechanical energy, provided manually by a team of 10 orcs per catapult, which also requires another 5 orcs to effectively fire the catapult. The catapults fire extremely brittle yet very circular ball-shaped hard rocks, covered in solid metal spikes similar to real life naval mines. The spikes are about 3 meters long, and are designed to impact the ground before the rock ball, and transmit powerful shockwaves from the force of hitting the ground into the rock ball, causing it to shatter with moderate force, sending many small bits of rock and dust flying into the air, with a range of 10 meters. The metal spikes are designed as to shatter the rock ball before it reaches the ground, so that the shrapnel flies a few meters above the ground, instead of straight into the ground. The catapults themselves have a range of about 50 meters.
I
While the airships are extremely powerful and well-armoured, they still have many weaknesses. If a boiler is even slightly penetrated by enemy fire, it will explode in a massive shockwave of energy that will destroy anything in a moderate radius. The legs can also be set off by penetrating their high-pressure pistons, which will severely weaken their joints and other vital points. However, the orcs are well-supplied, having over 300 airships at their disposal.


The orcs also experimental steam-powered scouting rockets which are capable of blasting off into the atmosphere, reaching a max altitude of 1000 meters, and are used as scouting rockets. However, the orcs have no landing capabilities, so the scouting research is required to be written down and stored into an extremely strong cabinet on the rocket, while the rocket itself plummets back down to earth and is destroyed. The crew is usually killed in this process, but they don't mind too much because they're orcs.


The orcs also have developed a close-quarters "shotgun" weapon, capable of firing many tiny particles of sharp metal at high velocity by using both pressured steam bottles, similar to ammunition magazines. The steam bottles, which can be used with mostly any hand-held steam weapon are pre-packaged bottles of pressurized steam stored into a liquid wood and bronze container. They are loaded into the firing chamber, sitting directly before the projectile of the weapon, while the weapon's chamber is sealed and the projectile is rammed tightly against the bottle.
I
When the firing mechanism is triggered, a sharp blade plunges into the bottle cap, breaching it and unleashing the pressurized steam, which smashes against the projectile, launching it at high velocity out of the weapon. In this case, a small case of many tiny metal shards is used, which first speeds forwards, the case keeping the projectiles in a usable state and not bouncing around the barrel, while at the near-end of the barrel, the barrel pipe is suddenly narrowed, stopping the case from moving forwards anymore, and launches the shrapnel out of the case and out of the muzzle, whereupon the projectiles quickly spread out and lose velocity and speed. The steam shotgun has a range of 2-3 meters.
I
The empty case inside the steam shotgun must be disposed of by re-opening the chamber and removing a side panel of the barrel, and manually removing the debris, which may require special tools if the case is stuck to the barrel. Afterwards, the steam shotgun can be reloaded by inserting another loaded case into a removable top-access panel which goes directly into the firing bay. The steam bottle can be simply unclipped and unscrewed after the firing mechanism has been re-wound, since the case cannot fit if the firing trigger is still down.

NOTES:

Most steam hand-held weapons take around the same time to reload from empty, about 5-10 minutes for a skilled user, and longer for a less skilled user. The steam weapons are also somewhat dangerous, and their steam bottles can be accidentally breached when reloading, as the firing mechanism is very easy to push forward by bumping it with a finger, usually causing severe damage to the orc reloading it.


The orc kingdom stretches to around 2,000 kilometers of dry land and 300 kilometers of non-dry water and liquid territory total. The orc population is about 6.9 million, all of which are either military or commanding personnel. Dwarves are used for production, and require very little to feed, only requiring 1 kilogram of raw vegetables and meat every year, along with normal water requirements. They can also produce things at a a rate generally many, many times as fast as a normal human, and instantly learn any new technologies from friendly forces. However, ONLY from friendly forces, meaning dwarves will have to be captured and completely subjugated before they can develop or produce anything for an opposing faction.


Provided with the correct resources, a single dwarf could produce 1 latest-model family sedan from hand in about 2 hours, with no machinery involved and from purely raw, unrefined resources with greater precision than an actual machine. However, the orc's blueprints and designs are very clunky and unsophisticated, so the dwarfs are usually very troubled when producing orc equipment, leading to a vastly slower production rate.

The dwarfish population is relatively small, with only 370,000 dwarfens in the orch kingdom, with another 200 orchs living in isolated huts. Dwarfens are physically frail, and a small human child of 10 years would have no problem killing at least 10 dwarfens on his own.


Orchs in full armor are also very durable, and require about 5 standard NATO 5.56 rounds to put down at the torso. They are also extremely confident and believe that the humans have no chance of even killing more than 30 orchs total with the extinction of all humans.

Mechanical power banks are also somewhat unstable, and have been known to destroy themselves randomly, sometimes even strangling nearby orcs to death with their ropes and cables, or crushing them with their mechanical energy.

The humans have guns, missiles, ships, jet aircraft, and the like.

Orcs all die.

Then, the Self-Defense Forces, along with the rest of the world's military go to where the Orcs came from and exterminate them there too.

The end.

[bilateralrope]

Then the humans find out that they accidentally liberated the Dwarves.

[Archinist]

F.

The humans have guns, missiles, ships, jet aircraft, and the like.

Orcs all die.

Then, the Self-Defense Forces, along with the rest of the world's military go to where the Orcs came from and exterminate them there too.

The end.

What about the dwarves? How well would the humans capture them and subjugate them? And what if a orc somehow got his hands on plans and materials needed for an older jet fighter, such as a F-14 or something? Assuming they had the correct resources, the dwarfs could build an entire fleet of F-14s in just a few days.

I doubt missiles could fly through the portal very easily, the humans would have to actually transport them over there and set up a ton of satellites in space and whatnot before the missiles became useful.

Plus the orcs themselves are quite bullet-resistant, and no sorry naval ships would not have access to the portal, as the portal is a ground installation. How well would the airships work against infantry and lightly armoured vehicles? The catapults could probably kill quite a few infantry if they wandered too close.

Then the humans find out that they accidentally liberated the Dwarves.

The humans could use the dwarves to bolster their own production, though. The dwarves can't actually fight on their own, even if they were in a fighting machine, so if most of the orcs were killed the dwarves would be mostly helpless except for a few fancy mechanisms here and there.

[VX-145]

Depending on where exactly these orcs come through, and exactly what numbers etc are in the first wave, things could get kind of tricky for Japan itself for the next few days.

On the other hand, after that point the American carrier battlegroup in the area goes "fuck no" and promptly proceeds to pin in place the pluckish portal platoons. Sorry, I was on a roll there. The point being that Japan just so happens to be on the edge of one of the most heavily militarised locations on the planet, which means that the orcs have a bad time. Actual destruction of the orcish forces is going to take a while - there's simply not enough ordnance on hand to kill 6.8 million orcs - but they're not going to be moving anywhere. This may seem counterintuitive - why don't they just all bunch up and charge in that case? - but one has to take into account both the precision of human weaponry and the quite frankly absurd reconnaissance capabilities possessed by modern militaries. Any concentration of orcs is going to be spotted and quickly dealt with, starting with the command elements. This isn't even going into the inherent problems involved with manoeuvring a force that big in the Japanese home islands.

As to comparing equipment, because hey why not:

Airships. You ever see Archer? That clip where they're on a Zeppelin? "Hello, Airplanes? It's blimps, you win." For a start, the capabilities you describe are simply not good enough. 20 minutes of flying is not even remotely worth the amount of resources these things cost. As an aside, while I was initially incredulous (no do not alliterate again), you can in fact melt wood. Theoretically, at least. As to weapons and armour - if one gets up in the air, and stays up long enough for the friendly local carrier to notice, it is going down again very quickly. 100mm of bronze is... not much to write home about. A modern Hellfire missile can theoretically penetrate anywhere upwards of 800mm of real armour. Bronze is not real armour. The weapons reload slowly enough that this thing is not effective in combat versus modern weapons. The only use I can find for these things is as a terror weapon, and even then you only get 20 minutes of terror. Which... would actually be an interesting concept to work with in a story.

Personal infantry weapons. Much worse than our own. The only advantage the orcs are going to have in combat with these things is their sheer numbers and their resilience. Aircraft and artillery counter both. We have lots of aircraft and artillery. RIP orcs. Hell, I doubt there's a single weapon in their arsenal capable of taking out a modern tank with any sort of speed. For comparison, when the Nazis invaded Russia in 1941, there was at least one incident where a Soviet heavy tank parked itself on a crossroad and blocked the advance of an entire German division. It was only moved when the crew inside died from the percussive shock caused by the sheer number of rounds fired at the damn thing. This was in a combat between two technologically similar forces. The orcs are literally using medieval cannons against much more advanced tanks.

Scouting rockets. This turns the playing field from a vertical slope into climbing Mount Everest, at least in terms of the reconnaissance war. Right up until an AEGIS destroyer gets on station, anyway. We have the capability to shoot down incoming ICBMs, for christ's sake, a simple rocket on the way up is no challenge at all. (AFAIK it's easier to shoot a rocket going up than coming down.)

And then there's the reliability of orcish weapons. More often than not, they actively backfire and kill their user. It's entirely possible for an orcish army to wipe itself out trying to kill a single modern tank, without said tank fighting back.

Now that's finished, let's get to the dwarves. For a start, they're not going to be useful in the very beginning. Who cares how fast they can make an airship when those airships are useless? Unfortunately for the orcs, we also don't tend to keep blueprints for our tanks and aircraft lying around on the streets of Japan, even assuming these orcs know to look for them. Even assuming they magically get ahold of the blueprints for all of our modern weapons, it's still going to take a long time to roll them out in enough quantities to be decisive (again assuming they haven't wasted all their precious copper on freaking BRONZE ARMOUR, copper being one of the most important resources for building, say, a fleet of F-14s), by which point the war is over. The dwarves quickly become the most sought-after asset in manufacturing, and I'm sure all sorts of problems crop up as a result.

Two things I haven't talked about here. The first is the complete naval superiority that we possess. The orcs have literally no navy, whereas we possess... well, the Americans alone have something like twenty carrier battlegroups. Those orcs are getting stuck in Japan, even if they manage to take the whole of the home islands (which they might, this being a massive surprise attack and there being 6.8 mil of them). With naval superiority comes with the insane bombardment ranges brought about by modern aircraft and missiles.

The second is nukes. If things really go south for the human forces in Japan (again, they might), and the rest of the world decides they don't want to send in any more conventional forces because it's a holiday and they've got better things to do, those orcs are going to find out what a nuclear bomb to the face feels like.

Of course, since these guys seem to be more like Warhammer 40k Orks than traditional fantasy orcs, they probably won't care that they lose. Hell, they'll probably ask for someone to drop the A-bomb on them, just to see it go boom.

[hunter5]

You do realize humans had iron weapons long before 412 AD with Asia having iron weapons as far back as 600 BC

[bilateralrope]

Those Orcs did so little in their previous invasions that there is no record of them. I don't think they managed to accomplish much back then.

And what if a orc somehow got his hands on plans and materials needed for an older jet fighter, such as a F-14 or something? Assuming they had the correct resources, the dwarfs could build an entire fleet of F-14s in just a few days

How are the Orcs going to get the resources from wherever they were captured to the dwarves ?

How are the resources going to be refined when the dwarves don't seem to know much beyond bronze working ?

For that matter, how are the Dwarves going to read the blueprints ?
They won't know the language the blueprints are written in. They won't have computers capable of reading the files the Orcs captured, because they don't have electricity.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

What about the dwarves? How well would the humans capture them and subjugate them? And what if a orc somehow got his hands on plans and materials needed for an older jet fighter, such as a F-14 or something? Assuming they had the correct resources, the dwarfs could build an entire fleet of F-14s in just a few days.

For the umpteenth time, reverse engineering doesn't work like that. In the years it would take for the Orks to figure out what they needed to make an F-14, they would all be exterminated like the vermin you are.

I doubt missiles could fly through the portal very easily, the humans would have to actually transport them over there and set up a ton of satellites in space and whatnot before the missiles became useful.

I actually meant taking out the Orks on our side of the portal, but, to address your ridiculous red herring, the missiles wouldn't be blind-fired through a portal they can easily pass through. See, if the portal can let things out, it can allow things in as well. And, they'd work on the other side of the portal just as equally.

Plus the orcs themselves are quite bullet-resistant

Your usual back tracking, I see. Irrelevant.

Because, for the umpteenth fucking time, bullet-resistant /= bullet-proof!

Too fucking bad. It might take a few more shots per greenskin, but Orcs meet bullets, and still die violently by the thousands. Get over it.

and no sorry naval ships would not have access to the portal, as the portal is a ground installation.

More of your usual backtracking, but, hey, if you want to rip off GATE that badly...

How well would the airships work against infantry and lightly armoured vehicles? The catapults could probably kill quite a few infantry if they wandered too close.

Against modern fighter-bombers, plus the JGDSF, Russian, Chinese, and the US military's tanks, the steampunk Ork invasion hasn't a hope in hell's chance. And, planes , tanks, trains, and automobiles, having zero trouble passing through the portal, will do so, along with the supply train necessary to support them.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

Oh, what about the dwarves?! They are the Orcs' tech base, pretty much, so they're just as defeatable...though setting them up as a proxy government also has its advantages, politically, diplomatically, and morally. It might even provide retroactive justification for the invasion of the portal into Archinist World.

[Archinist]

Those Orcs did so little in their previous invasions that there is no record of them. I don't think they managed to accomplish much back then.

And what if a orc somehow got his hands on plans and materials needed for an older jet fighter, such as a F-14 or something? Assuming they had the correct resources, the dwarfs could build an entire fleet of F-14s in just a few days

How are the Orcs going to get the resources from wherever they were captured to the dwarves ?

How are the resources going to be refined when the dwarves don't seem to know much beyond bronze working ?

For that matter, how are the Dwarves going to read the blueprints ?
They won't know the language the blueprints are written in. They won't have computers capable of reading the files the Orcs captured, because they don't have electricity.

Well, the orcs can just pick up some paper blueprints. Even if they only pick up detailed civilian books, the dwarves could still figure it out fairly quickly. The blueprints for the F-14 would also tell you where the electricity is provided, so the dwarves can just figure it out.

The orcs could also perhaps find an old military airplane graveyard and steal some of the planes, and let the dwarves look at them. Also, the orcs use a language almost exactly the same as English for some reason. The dwarves don't know much about metallurgy because the orcs haven't really told them about other resources, and so the dwarves aren't making anything with other metals. If the dwarves suddenly needed other metals then the orcs would probably provide them.

W

For the umpteenth time, reverse engineering doesn't work like that. In the years it would take for the Orks to figure out what they needed to make an F-14, they would all be exterminated like the vermin you are.

Yes it does! The dwarfs are very intelligent and instantly know what material is what and which part goes where after a few minutes of looking at a blueprint. In fact, they could make the Starship Enterprise in about a day or two given the correct raw or refined materials, even without any tools!

When the orcs realise the humans have better tech, they could decide to steal some tech for the dwarves. Let's say after stealing a lot of cars and whatnot they finally steal the blueprints for a F-14 on paper, or a old F-14 rotting in a boneyard. The dwarves will just look at the scrapped plane and since they have seen other metals before, they just haven't found a use for them yet, they could instantly tell which metal goes where, how to make each material, etc etc. The electricity and computers might confuse them for a bit but eventually they'd realise they're just fancier turbines and very small machines.

I

I actually meant taking out the Orks on our side of the portal, but, to address your ridiculous red herring, the missiles wouldn't be blind-fired through a portal they can easily pass through. See, if the portal can let things out, it can allow things in as well. And, they'd work on the other side of the portal just as equally.

No no no. No radio waves or sonar waves can pass through the portal. This means the humans would have to physically transport missiles over to the other side of the portal and build a massive silo there to hold the missiles.

Plus the orcs themselves are quite bullet-resistant

Your usual back tracking, I see. Irrelevant.

Because, for the umpteenth fucking time, bullet-resistant /= bullet-proof!

Too fucking bad. It might take a few more shots per greenskin, but Orcs meet bullets, and still die violently by the thousands. Get over it.

How am I back tracking? If you read the OP, it states two times that the orcs are bullet resistant and require at least 5 NATIO 5.56 standard rounds to put down in full armor.

and no sorry naval ships would not have access to the portal, as the portal is a ground installation.

More of your usual backtracking, but, hey, if you want to rip off GATE that badly...

[/quote]

Again no backtracking, as it said nowhere in the OP that the portal was sea-based, and in fact implied heavily by never stating anything about the orc naval fleets and mentioning only ground units that the portal was ground-based.

The portal also appears in Tokyo, something I didn't mention in the OP because I forgot to mention. But I was still going to put that there. Also, it's not a rip off GATE, I just love the theme of ancient orcs/demons invading modern earth with very good confidence and losing terribly. This scenario is of course balanced out for the orcs a little, though.

[bilateralrope]

The Orcs had better hope that humans decide to commit enough soldiers to invade. Other options include building a sealed structure around the portal, then lobbing through a chemical weapon that persists in the environment. Thus killing off any Orc approaching the portal.

I doubt missiles could fly through the portal very easily, the humans would have to actually transport them over there and set up a ton of satellites in space and whatnot before the missiles became useful.

I actually meant taking out the Orks on our side of the portal, but, to address your ridiculous red herring, the missiles wouldn't be blind-fired through a portal they can easily pass through. See, if the portal can let things out, it can allow things in as well. And, they'd work on the other side of the portal just as equally.

On one hand, one way portals aren't unknown in fiction.

On the other hand, the part of his post you quoted has him confirming that the portals are two way. It's not the only time he confirmed it. So it's quite clearly a two way portal unless he tries backtracking again because we didn't respond the way he wanted us to.

and no sorry naval ships would not have access to the portal, as the portal is a ground installation.

More of your usual backtracking, but, hey, if you want to rip off GATE that badly...

This doesn't sound like a backtrack to me. The Orcs don't have any kind of navy, yet they somehow come through the portal. Which makes a ground based portal the most likely option.

I left the rest of your post unquoted because I fully agree with it.

[bilateralrope]

Well, the orcs can just pick up some paper blueprints. Even if they only pick up detailed civilian books, the dwarves could still figure it out fairly quickly. The blueprints for the F-14 would also tell you where the electricity is provided, so the dwarves can just figure it out.

Please provide proof that plans for the F-14 exist as paper blueprints.
Then prove that the paper blueprints exist in Japan. Because the orcs have no navy, nor any way to get any ships produced on the Orc side into Earth oceans. So they are stuck in Japan.

The orcs could also perhaps find an old military airplane graveyard and steal some of the planes, and let the dwarves look at them. Also, the orcs use a language almost exactly the same as English for some reason. The dwarves don't know much about metallurgy because the orcs haven't really told them about other resources, and so the dwarves aren't making anything with other metals. If the dwarves suddenly needed other metals then the orcs would probably provide them.

Please point to a specific graveyard they could capture in Japan.

Please prove that the F-14 paper blueprints located in Japan are written in English.

The electricity and computers might confuse them for a bit but eventually they'd realise they're just fancier turbines and very small machines.

So the Dwarves can magically pull information out of their ass.

I just love the theme of ancient orcs/demons invading modern earth with very good confidence and losing terribly. This scenario is of course balanced out for the orcs a little, though.

What exactly is your meaning of "balanced" ?

[Tribble]

You do realize humans had iron weapons long before 412 AD with Asia having iron weapons as far back as 600 BC

It's an Archinist Scenario, you ought to know by now that the concept of doing research before hand does not apply. We can't have silly little things like facts get in the way of the orcs slaughtering everyone!



IMO we don't even have to kill them all directly; just set a perimeter and wait for them to starve to death! Remember, according the OP "The orc population is about 6.9 million, all of which are either military or commanding personnel" while the 370,000 dwarves are used solely for production. There is effectively no resource and food gathering/farming segment in the orc society. The orcs warlike behaviour no doubt stems from the fact that they are totally incapable of feeding themselves and their real reason for the invasion is that they need to raid places for resources and food in order to survive. Between slaughtering them left right and centre with modern weapons and preventing them from pillaging local resources, we'll be able to wipe most of them out without having to step one foot in the portal. Of course, I do feel kind of sorry for the Dwarves, though I guess they would be unfortunate collateral damage.

[bilateralrope]

Of course, since these guys seem to be more like Warhammer 40k Orks than traditional fantasy orcs, they probably won't care that they lose. Hell, they'll probably ask for someone to drop the A-bomb on them, just to see it go boom.

Be fair. The Warhammer 40k Orks know how to grow their own food.

Orks know how to succeed when they do something stupid like invading the Eye of Terror. Dumber than Parrot Orcs sound like they failed at every invasion attempt they made.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

How am I back tracking? If you read the OP, it states two times that the orcs are bullet resistant and require at least 5 NATIO 5.56 standard rounds to put down in full armor.

Sigh. Never mind, doesn't matter, Orcs still die in their millions from a fatal case of lead poisoning, even if it means putting two three-round bursts on target instead of one. Especially if 7.62mm battle rifles are broken out of storage to supplement the ones already in service as substitute standards. Plus machine guns. Plus anti-materiel rifles. Plus artillery.

No no no. No radio waves or sonar waves can pass through the portal. This means the humans would have to physically transport missiles over to the other side of the portal and build a massive silo there to hold the missiles.

Which means their passive sensors(which nearly every guided missile in current use has) are unhindered, and they wouldn't be firing blind through the portal anyway. And, since most of the missiles I'm talking about(air-launched Harpoons and Tomahawks, Hellfires, MLRS, Pershing IIs, if need be, RIM-116s, SCUDs, and the like)are already on vehicles or otherwise transportable, there would be no need to build any kind of silo.

And, whether radio and sound waves can pass through the portal or not, it doesn't matter for the Orcs on our side of the portal, who will face the full wrath of land, naval, and aerial guided missile power.

Yes it does! The dwarfs are very intelligent and instantly know what material is what and which part goes where after a few minutes of looking at a blueprint. In fact, they could make the Starship Enterprise in about a day or two given the correct raw or refined materials, even without any tools!

No, it freakin' doesn't! It doesn't matter how intelligent the Dwarves are, they're not going to instantly know what materials are required and what part goes where, and they still require an infrastructure and a tech base from which to work.

And, the idiotic claim they can build the Starship Enterprise in one or two days with no tools...is ridiculous.

What, are they just going to magick up all the parts they need, fully formed, from thin fucking air?! Really?!

Gods, between you, and the idiots on Facebook bleating about the NASA warp drive starship that they've been told ten thousand times that NASA is not building and never will, I have a headache Execedrin won't cure.

When the orcs realise the humans have better tech, they could decide to steal some tech for the dwarves. Let's say after stealing a lot of cars and whatnot they finally steal the blueprints for a F-14 on paper, or a old F-14 rotting in a boneyard.

In Japan?! Remember the United States never sold the F-14 to the Japanese Self-Defense Forces. And, any USN F-14s which might have been stationed in Japan were sent back to the States. To be disposed of. IN THE FUCKING STATES, WHERE THERE'S NO GODDAMNED PORTAL!!

And, how in the hell are the Orks going to steal any cars, when they don't even know how to operate them, or maybe you're going to have them conveniently bring enough empty wagons, etc., to transport any techno-loot they come across. To say nothing of the fact that any civilian cars they come across in an active combat zone will probably resemble bombed/gunned-out scrap than cars, because, combat, and any military vehicles are going to be...well, you figure it out.

Never mind. You can't.

The dwarves will just look at the scrapped plane and since they have seen other metals before, they just haven't found a use for them yet, they could instantly tell which metal goes where, how to make each material, etc etc. The electricity and computers might confuse them for a bit but eventually they'd realise they're just fancier turbines and very small machines.

They haven't seen, haven't even needed to see aluminum or titanium before. And, electricity, computers, jet engines are not just "fancier turbines" or "very small machines." They are a radical leap forward in technological development from what the dwarves have managed to build now.

That's even if they have the Keebler elf magic building powers that you attribute to them.

[Vendetta]

They haven't seen, haven't even needed to see aluminum or titanium before. And, electricity, computers, jet engines are not just "fancier turbines" or "very small machines." They are a radical leap forward in technological development from what the dwarves have managed to build now.

Well, jet engines are fancier turbines. That doesn't mean anyone who could build eg. a simple steam turbine had a prayer of being able to build one, but they're just a turbine that works in reverse (using the rotation to compress gas rather than expanding gas to produce rotation).

[Simon_Jester]

There is about a thirty year gap between the development of turbines as a mature technology and anyone even trying to build jet turbines. And the early jet engines were highly unreliable and burned out quickly, precisely because metallurgy was in a limited state and knowledge of how the air flowed through the engine was less refined than today. A bunch of people who didn't know anything about building airplanes would take a lot of effort to duplicate a jet engine, even if they had examples in front of them.

Reverse-engineering usually only works well if you have a good theoretical understanding of HOW something works, and just need to know exactly how it's put together. It's most useful when there are a few specific details in your knowledge of a technology is missing. For example, the Russians circa 1945 had jet engines but could not make them powerful or reliable. The British had some of the best jet engines in the world, so the Russians wanted to find out specifically what alloy the British used for that purpose.

So they had a guy tour a British engine factory (just the routine tour, no classified information revealed)... except that he was wearing heavy felt boots. The boots picked up scraps and shavings of metal left on the factory floor from the engine parts. The Russians plucked the metal fragments out of the boots, and analyzed those to find the composition of the alloy.

THAT kind of reverse-engineering you can do- you know how engines work, you just need to build a better one similar to what you already have.

But reverse-engineering a 2000-era engine in 1950, or a 1950-era engine in 1900, is just not possible. There's a lot you can learn from examining such advanced technology, but you won't be able to copy it.

[Simon_Jester]

ADDENDUM

I get that dwarves supposedly have massive, insane magical powers to make precision machinery and so on, and are limited mainly by the fact that they're being spoonfed crude blueprints and primitive technology by the savages who have subjugated them. They could make things much more impressive than what they do make, even if they can't make literally anything.

That's actually the only really interesting thing I see in this whole scenario. What would you do with people like that in real life?

[U.P. Cinnabar]

ADDENDUM

I get that dwarves supposedly have massive, insane magical powers to make precision machinery and so on, and are limited mainly by the fact that they're being spoonfed crude blueprints and primitive technology by the savages who have subjugated them. They could make things much more impressive than what they do make, even if they can't make literally anything.

That's actually the only really interesting thing I see in this whole scenario. What would you do with people like that in real life?

I would get it more, if it wasn't presented as a no-limits fallacy. When claims of their being able to bodge together the Starship Enterprise in a couple of days, with no tools, get tossed about, that's when the bullshit-o-meter pegs on the high end of the scale.

[Vendetta]

I would get it more, if it wasn't presented as a no-limits fallacy. When claims of their being able to bodge together the Starship Enterprise in a couple of days, with no tools, get tossed about, that's when the bullshit-o-meter pegs on the high end of the scale.

Everyone else has to turn off their bullshit-o-meter when whatsisface posts another topic due to the incessant alarm noise.

[U.P. Cinnabar]

I would get it more, if it wasn't presented as a no-limits fallacy. When claims of their being able to bodge together the Starship Enterprise in a couple of days, with no tools, get tossed about, that's when the bullshit-o-meter pegs on the high end of the scale.

Everyone else has to turn off their bullshit-o-meter when whatsisface posts another topic due to the incessant alarm noise.

Forgot I'd left mine on from "engaging" with the NASA warp drive starship bullshitters on Facefuck. That and this thread conspired to give me the granddaddy of all blinding headaches, but I feel much better now.

[Jub]

Even if these dwarves got the most detailed schematics possible for a given design, they're still not going to know the precise mixture of metals that go into something like 040A15 Steel. Without knowing that bit of technical jargon, they have no idea what the part is made out of, thus the orcs can't get them the resources to create it. The same goes for every other material in the vehicle's construction. Not to mention, the orcs obviously aren't very bright (or they'd have the dwarves making better stuff) so they likely won't think to capture libraries full of new stuff for the dwarves to build.

Also, even if they did, what stops the dwarves from rebelling using the first units of this massively better tech to free themselves from the orcs? There must be a reason why the dwarves are limited in what they have access to, so why would this war suddenly change that?

[Archinist]

Okay, so the Starship Enterprise being constructed in a few days was a massive exaggeration, let's say something much more reasonable, such as a group of 200 dwarves being able to construct a 1970s era space shuttle in 3 months the first few times, and then 2 months after that, if given all resources and basic metalworking, mechanical and minor electrical tools. Given proper modern factory tools and equipment, they could get it done in 1.5 weeks.

The dwarves cannot rebel against any race that is holding them, unless they are encouraged by another race/faction. Otherwise, they are forever loyal to that race/faction within reason. If the race/faction offers them extreme amounts of abuse, they will usually commit mass suicide instead of rebelling.

The way the dwarves sense what new materials are made out of or where they would most likely be found is via a range of chemical reactions occurring in their bodies when they touch the material and inhale air in its vicinity which allows them to instantly recognize what a certain type of metal or material something is, with an extremely high accuracy rate. This would make sense since dwarves are renowned for their amazing productivity in many great fantasy novels as well.

What is wrong with people believing that the emdrive thing might be successful? Surely it's not your business to go out of your way and strongly argue against them and attack them for their beliefs on such a light issue? I mean it's not even religion or politics, or even your favourite football team. It's just a prototype engine that is supposedly being made for more efficient space travel.

[Tribble]

Well, if we assume that the Dwarves abilities are as powerful as Dumber than Parrots described, they'd have to be incredibly powerful creatures. They'd have to have super-intelligence in order to read a schematic like the Enterprise and know how to instantly build one. They'd have to have super-speed in order to be able to build things at the rate described. And as the OP specifically stated that they do not use tools, due to their physical frailty they'd have to be using some kind of telekinesis with an incredible degree of precision. The Dwarves should be capable of destroying things just as easily as they are able to create things - if a single Dwarf is able to build modern car in two hours with better precision than any machine, what's to prevent them from using that abiltity to, ohh, kill anyone that threatens or annoys them? After all, living things are composed of matter, and the Dwarves are able to use whatever material that they come across as they please. They should be able to strip all the carbon out of you as easily as they can strip iron out of rock, for example.

[Simon_Jester]

Yeah. I mean... is it literal magic that enables these dwarves to make stuff they've never seen before? How do they work metal and assemble large vehicle parts and make heavy weaponry if they are so physically weak?