Dresden and Nightside

[Enforcer Talen]

Dresden v nightside

Comparative analysis. Spoilers, obviously.

I'm a fan of both series; I enjoy the genre of supernatural noir. However, I've noticed a rather thorough comparison between the two, and decided to write them down. This is from my phone, and ill edit and update it from time to time. Primary this is q compariosm of the nightside, but Simon r green has linked all of his stories, so I'll mention if I think it interesting. 

The story is in a mostly modern world, but behind the scenes, all of the myths of our predecessors are real.
Harry Dresden and John Taylor are both private investgators, both with a gift for finding things. Over the course of the series, Dresden gains powerups to better his destructive spell casting, and Taylor gets better at finding more esoteric things, like 'your weakness.' both are masters of the bluff, like to play things close to their chest, and buck authority routinely. They like to do the right thing, and from a personal perspective, not a utilitarian one.

Their primary ally is a strong willed female, officer Murphy and Suzie shooter. She is a master of fire arms, good in hand to hand, and will stick to the investigator to the end. There are sometimes misunderstandings, Murphy arrests Dresden, and Suzie shoots Taylor, but they work it through. There is a small but significant sexual tension which remains unresolved throughout almost the entire series as currently written.

(Simon r green uses this combination in all of this series - Rupert and Julia, hawk and fisher, owen and hazel, eddie and
Molly, etc)

Both Dresden and Taylor have a minion protege. Dresden has Molly, his apprentice, a young lively goth girl who uses her looks to get to know the scene. Taylor has his secretary, whose name I will look up later, with about the same description. Dresden rescued her from fey, Taylor rescued her from a carniviorous house.

They both have an ally of a 'good man', who isn't quite sure what to make of the main character. Micheal carpenter, knight of the cross, and Julian adventurer, someone who took jekyls other serum. They both act as conscience and adventure hook for the lead.

The bar is a common scene. Dresden has [ ], Taylor has strangefellows, the oldest bar in the world. [ ] has mac, a strong silent type. The bar is a neutral zone by way of the accords, and the drinks are famous. Strangefellows has [ ], who hates everyone, ttries to posion the snacks, and is kept neutral by Merlin motherfuciking satanspawn, who is buried in the basement.

Both leads encounter a reporter who tries to use their good looks for a story. Dresden falls in love with his, Taylor turns his down to keep with suzie shotgun. 

Both have a mortal father and mysterious mother. Dresden was born to lefay, a woman so like the sidhe she took their name. Taylor has Lilith, the biblical one. Lefay gives Dresden an inheritance of the ways, Lilith gives Taylor his gift of finding things.

Both series have an authority system they fight, and sometimes work for. Dresden has gentlemen Johnny marcone, Taylor has walker. Marcone has the vast system he built, walker has the vast system he represents. Both of these characters have a voice which must be obeyed.
 
Merlin is in both series. He was taught by herne the hunter, or elkring, who leads the wild hunt. He wrote the eight laws of magic, formed the white council, could have been Antichrist but declined the offer, worshipped Arthur pendragon, and lost his heart to nimue. He is dead but not finished in the basement of strangefellows.
 
Angels are major players in both series. They are viewed as god's SAS. People who make deals with the Fallen are big leaguers. As such, both leads are snarky to them, billing them for services, and generally being a hassle.

Fey are more detailed in the Dresden verse then the Taylor one, but they are still bad news. Don't make a deal, don't eat or drink anything, and bring cold iron. 

Vampires, as well, are more detailed in Dresden with verse, with four or more courts. In the haven series, they mostly follow the black court method; dead man walking. Heroes can kill them with luck, legends can kill a nest of them. In the nightside, they are punchlines; Dracula hasn't been getting good billing. In the Dresden verse, drakul is mad and bad to know. 

Dresden verse has much more detail on werewolves. In haven, a werewolf is equal to a succubus. In the book drinking midnight wine, a werewolf loses all it's limbs and possibly it's head, but is still good to go cuz they didn't use silver.

Both series use faith as power, so there are a stack of items just from christ's life that are relics. The three nails are part of swords, the shroud, the Grail, the unholy Grail, the denarii, the noose, and his first crafted box. I'm expecting to see the spear of destiny any time now.

Names have power in both series; you can compel when you have them in the dresden verse. In the nightside, there is the speaking gun, which says your name backwards, and you are unmade.

The sight - available to pretty much everyone, it'll let you see reality as it truly is. You can get it from being a wizard, from taking the right chems, from wearing specific armor, from being part outsider...
 
Dragons are major players in the Dresden verse, but killable. In the blue moon series, we saw the last dragon, who collected butterflies. Rupert rescues him from the princess Julia.

Demons and outsiders - janissary Jane from the drood series
explains this well. Demons are extraplanar nasties. You can kill them with effort and preperation, and their motivations are understandable. Outsiders are unknowable, and operate under different natural laws. They can be summoned, or visit on their own, but it's usually unpleasant when they do.

Transient beings - if you have faith, the creature gets power. The street of gods has thousands of the things, and Dresden suggests India has thousands more. Gods can go up and down the power scale, with the abrahmic religion being pretty high up the chaiin at the moment. Gods can die when they lose enough believers, and they can be forgotten.

Genius loci - limited to islands or other scaled items in the Dresden verse. In drinking midnight wine, the sun, the moon, and the earth are all genius loci, and the sun hates us. He scorched the moon to prove a point.
  
Transport - Dresden verse has the ways, which are shortcuts. In the nightside, teleportstion is common enough a bartender has it. Timeslips are a street hazard like potholes. 

Possible Apocalypse - let me count the ways

The drood series has two boxes which end the universe..

The loathly ones win the war. Everything down to the natural laws are eaten. 

In the nightside, Lilith wins the war. The planet is remade in her image.

Lilth and Taylor fight to a draw. The world is so damaged that natural laws start breaking down, imcluding time.

In drinking midnight wine, the serpent wins. Earth is scorched to bedrock.

In blue moon rising, wild magic gets let loose. Natural law is abandoned.

In Dresden verse, the winter court wins. Humanity is lost to an ice age.

The white court culling suceeds. Humanity becomes cattle to red and white court.

The kemmlerite suceeds their ascension. A death god walks the earth.

Powerwise, i'd say nightside wins hands down. For the CMOA, I prefer Dresden.  

[Murazor]

Not sure of the exact purpose of this thread, but I'll say that the Nightside novels left me thinking that they were lacking in literary merit. They are strictly pulp fantasy - and not even very good even within the relatively narrow boundaries of the genre.

Oh. And the whole B plot with Merlin's heart left me rather puzzled, considering that Taylor and friends extracted it from his chest and drained it of magic to fuel their trip backwards in time a few more centuries.

[Ford Prefect]

Not sure of the exact purpose of this thread, but I'll say that the Nightside novels left me thinking that they were lacking in literary merit. They are strictly pulp fantasy - and not even very good even within the relatively narrow boundaries of the genre.

If you substituted 'Nightside' for 'The Dresden Files', this would be my exact response. The popularity of Butcher's series leaves me perpetually bewildered.

[Bakustra]

Not sure of the exact purpose of this thread, but I'll say that the Nightside novels left me thinking that they were lacking in literary merit. They are strictly pulp fantasy - and not even very good even within the relatively narrow boundaries of the genre.

If you substituted 'Nightside' for 'The Dresden Files', this would be my exact response. The popularity of Butcher's series leaves me perpetually bewildered.

I'd say that Nightside is somewhat worse, though. While I agree with you on the flaws and shortcomings of the Dresden Files, Green lacks even Butcher's abilities. John Taylor exists entirely as a cipher; where Dresden is a sapling of a character growing from a mess of noir and fantasy cliches, Taylor lacks any discernible character beyond those cliches. Taylor's world is as crowded as Dresden's, though at least it rarely interacts with the modern world. His "ability" is more appropriate for a videogame mechanic and limits itself purely upon authorial fiat; while this is not necessarily a bad thing, there are no questions posed appropriate to his godlike powers of destruction. The Dresden Files is unremittant pulp, but the Nightside series more so.

[Axiomatic]

I'll say this for the Dresden Files...Jim Butcher at least does not recycle prose. In every Nightside book, every time you meet Shotgun Susie, she gets introduced the EXACT SAME GODDAMN WAY.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

The Nightside books are very repetitive as a rule. I read about four of them and just couldn't take it anymore. I might some day read the rest, but I will make sure to leave some time between books.

I also think Simon Green doesn't quite pull off the mix of humor and darkness that he intends to. Nightlife by Rob Thurman is a much better example of a dark book that manages to keep its tongue in its cheek and thus be funny instead of tedious.

The Dresden Files is almost entirely Plot and Punchlines after book 2, so it would only appeal to a certain segment of the population. But for people like me who are perfectly happy with entertainment, they are great. Character growth is only allowed when it doesn't interfere with the humor or with advancing the story, which is a nice change of pace from the current trend in High Fantasy storytelling.

[SylasGaunt]

I'll say this for the Dresden Files...Jim Butcher at least does not recycle prose. In every Nightside book, every time you meet Shotgun Susie, she gets introduced the EXACT SAME GODDAMN WAY.

The Nightside Drinking game! Take a shot every time John Taylor ends a sentence with 'in the nightside'.

[Bob the Gunslinger]

You'd die, Sylas.

Anyway, I find the Nightside short stories to be superior to the novels, at least the ones I've read so far. If you like that type of writing, though, you'd do well to check out Rob Thurman's Nightlife and Charles Stross's Atrocity Archives. If you enjoy The Dresden Files, you'll also probably like Patricia Briggs's Mercy Thompson books and Carrie Vaughn's Kitty Norville series (which gets really good in the later books).

[Axiomatic]

The Nightside Drinking game! Take a shot every time John Taylor ends a sentence with 'in the nightside'.

You can go to jail for attempted murder for even suggesting that drinking game, man. Even worse in the audiobooks, too, where the narrator seems to always pronounce it the same way. "But that's what life is like...in the Nightside."

[Glimmervoid]

The Nightside Drinking game! Take a shot every time John Taylor ends a sentence with 'in the nightside'.

You can go to jail for attempted murder for even suggesting that drinking game, man. Even worse in the audiobooks, too, where the narrator seems to always pronounce it the same way. "But that's what life is like...in the Nightside."

You can also get pretty drunk doing it with “It was the easiest thing the the world...” You have to wonder exactly how many things can possibly all be the 'easiest'.

[Majin Gojira]

Why does that literary style remind me of the original Doc Savage pulps?