Disney to acquire Lucasfilm

[Elfdart]

Also serious question time... who doesn't want John Williams involved? Can we get someone's hand raised here? Why would we want the most award winning composer in... ever to not work on it? The guy who's been working solid for fifty years now and is on his way to building a third vacation home purely out of the awards he's won over the years? The guy who has five spots under the most memorable film score lists to himself?

Me. A lot of his music sounds eerily similar (AotC and Chamber of Secrets, Home Alone and Philsopher's Stone), and downright lazy and unforgettable (Kingdom of the Crystal Skull). I find it hilarious that you think Awards denote any sort of quality.

Lazy and unforgettable?

Anyway, you can say the same about any movie composer who is worth a damn.

[Mr Bean]

Me. A lot of his music sounds eerily similar (AotC and Chamber of Secrets, Home Alone and Philsopher's Stone), and downright lazy and unforgettable (Kingdom of the Crystal Skull). I find it hilarious that you think Awards denote any sort of quality.

Thanks Tucker for being honest as to your second statement I think it's odd you think awards indicate a lack of quality. If he can convince the Academy awards to produce something good enough to get nominated thirty plus times and win five times I think that's a fair indication of someone who knows their business. Unless you want to tell me that I have equal standing to John Williams to work on your next project.

[Havok]

I'm amused by people who don't want George Lucas or John Williams involved in Star Wars. If you don't like either or both, why the fuck are you even interested in Star Wars in the first place?

Williams didn't make the films interesting to me, you blithering fanboy. Are you seriously suggesting that I have to like one or both to enjoy the movies, only two of which are actually elevated above mediocrity? But hey. What can I expect from someone whose evaluation of the medium doesn't extend past "hey, it got me laid"?

So you watch the movies without the soundtrack? Seriously, this is the dumbest thing.

[Stark]

I know you believe this to be some amazing defensive maneouvre to protect your dad, but its a bit strange to claim i'm 'disinterested' when I just described my concern (such as it is) and you even quoted it.

Its almost like its actually impossible for you to understand how someone can like some movies without giving a shit about your dad, and you thus assume that everyone who says that sort of thing is lying. Its a bit sad, although not as sad as poor Hav being such an addict. That actually makes me feel down sometimes, this is just funny as hell.

To spell it out for you due to whatever cognitive bias you are experiencing, I don't care who makes SW movies. I only care if they're any good/fun/entertaining/etc. Please quote this paragraph and make a CUTTING disparaging remark about how I don't care so WHY ARE YOU POSTING LOL. The whole sideline of speculation about maybe Disney will turn the formula on its head for no reason based on no information is only worth pursuing because of your hilarious posts.

Bean what the christ are you even trying to say

[Havok]

I'm amused by people who don't want George Lucas or John Williams involved in Star Wars. If you don't like either or both, why the fuck are you even interested in Star Wars in the first place?

Is this a serious question? If SW had been made by Hitler, would enjoying it have required liking Hitler or being glad Hitler was involved or hoping Hitler retains creative control because of his unique vision?

Some people - normal people - just liked some movies and don't give a hoot about who did what when why. It doesn't help me give a shit when basically everything Lucas has made in decades has been terrible, and not having him around might increase the chance of something new being done.

And before you act stunned and clutch the prayer beads, my only concern is if SW can actually be interesting again.

Don't be an ass. Williams score and Lucas's ideas are key to the Star Wars movies. He isn't saying you have to like GL personally or JW personally as you are suggesting, with your ridiculous Hitler analogy, he is saying if you don't want either of them involved, the two most important creative forces behind the movies, then why even bother with the movies at all? In something like this, it is his unique vision that people wanted. You must like their ideas on some level if you like the movies.

[JLTucker]

Thanks Tucker for being honest as to your second statement I think it's odd you think awards indicate a lack of quality. If he can convince the Academy awards to produce something good enough to get nominated thirty plus times and win five times I think that's a fair indication of someone who knows their business. Unless you want to tell me that I have equal standing to John Williams to work on your next project.

Do you really want to derail this thread to discuss how awards for art are popularity contests? How the voting block of composers (Academy Awards) determines which composer deserves the award thus rendering them popular?

You likely aren't on par with Williams. But that's not because you don't' have awards: it's because you likely lack experience in composing and knowing the inner workings of the various instruments involved. Awards in regards to art are not indicative of anything other than popularity contests and victims of subjectivity. Will you ever construct a cogent argument?

He isn't saying you have to like GL personally or JW personally as you are suggesting, with your ridiculous Hitler analogy, he is saying if you don't want either of them involved, the two most important creative forces behind the movies, then why even bother with the movies at all? In something like this, it is his unique vision that people wanted. You must like their ideas on some level if you like the movies.

Wait. What? Are you seriously suggesting that Williams is on par with those who create work for him to score to? Is he really as important as the art director, the cinematographer, teh actors?

[Stark]

Right, and that idea is pretty dumb. Lucas hasn't had a good idea in a long time, so why would anyone care if he was involved? I don't. So what? SW stuff with Lucas has sucked. SW stuff without Lucas has been good. I only care about results, not brands. Its pretty boggling to me that you can so easily associate an entire brand with one person and their 'unique ideas'. Are you aware that its possible to use Lucas' 'unique ideas' without him being physically present or directly involved?

That said, I think the idea that they'll slap Lucas in the face and kick him out is pretty stupid. Unless Disney has really firm ideas and Lucas gets cross about it, I don't think there's any reason why they would do so, particularly given all the people like yourself who are married to him as the only creator of TRUE STAR WARS or whatever.

[Galvatron]

Lucas should definitely be involved at the conceptual level. Even I can admit that.

Let him come up with a story, let competent writers turn it into a screenplay and let a competent director film it. Just like TESB.

[Elfdart]

I think Don Siegel was a hack and can't stand Clint Eastwood, and I think the most recent Dirty Harry films sucked. But boy a re-boot of the franchise sure looks promising!

[Elfdart]

Wait. What? Are you seriously suggesting that Williams is on par with those who create work for him to score to? Is he really as important as the art director, the cinematographer, teh actors?

Yes.

[Havok]

He isn't saying you have to like GL personally or JW personally as you are suggesting, with your ridiculous Hitler analogy, he is saying if you don't want either of them involved, the two most important creative forces behind the movies, then why even bother with the movies at all? In something like this, it is his unique vision that people wanted. You must like their ideas on some level if you like the movies.

Wait. What? Are you seriously suggesting that Williams is on par with those who create work for him to score to? Is he really as important as the art director, the cinematographer, teh actors?

I'm not saying it, George Lucas and Steven Spielburg are saying it. Sorry you don't like the music, but there is a reason that GL used him for every movie, and why Spielburg has tried to use him exclusively since he did Jaws.

[Stark]

I think Don Siegel was a hack and can't stand Clint Eastwood, and I think the most recent Dirty Harry films sucked. But boy a re-boot of the franchise sure looks promising!

Are you just talking to yourself now?

I think its interesting that Disney came out and said their plans aren't really related to the old movies; they could just be testing the waters. But its possible they do actually have strong ideas about things Lucas doesn't care about (ie, not the Skywalkers) and his input would be limited to whatever magic window he might possess into the 'correct Star Wars' or whatever.

If they're really aiming at 2015 and not just saying that to beef their new assets' value, they'd have to have some pretty clear ideas, and I'm curious to know what they are. I'm pretty confident it'll be easy to judge them. :V

[JLTucker]

Wait. What? Are you seriously suggesting that Williams is on par with those who create work for him to score to? Is he really as important as the art director, the cinematographer, teh actors?

I'm not saying it, George Lucas and Steven Spielburg are saying it. Sorry you don't like the music, but there is a reason that GL used him for every movie, and why Spielburg has tried to use him exclusively since he did Jaws.

So? Am I supposed to give a shit about what Lucas and Hackberg think about it? They like him. I do not. I don't feel a need to stay loyal to him and Star Wars simply because he's scoring the work. It's not a deal breaker for me. Just give me some Star Wars stuff. When 2/3 of your series is mediocre, some change can be good, the same composer or not.

[Havok]

Man, way to move those goal posts.

So what is it about Star Wars DO you like Tucker?

[JLTucker]

Man, way to move those goal posts.

So what is it about Star Wars DO you like Tucker?

I like the rise and fall of Vader, but only in RotS. I like the culture built in the prequels, the wider lens of the societies. I like the political intrigue, I like the action sequences. I like its escapsim. All of the films have these aspects, but to a varying degree of enjoyment.

[Havok]

Man, way to move those goal posts.

So what is it about Star Wars DO you like Tucker?

I like the rise and fall of Vader, but only in RotS. I like the culture built in the prequels, the wider lens of the societies. I like the political intrigue, I like the action sequences. I like its escapsim. All of the films have these aspects, but to a varying degree of enjoyment.

So you like the Codex.

Fair enough. I suppose none of those require the music, but watch the action sequences without the music, not the same at all.

[Galvatron]

This made me smile...

[Stark]

The short links don't work, dude!

[Havok]

This made me smile...

Awww that gave me a warm fuzzy.

[Coyote]

Sidestepping the minutiae of John Williams's contribution and worth (I thought Kevin Kiner's interpretation of the score was outstanding, but that's me), this acquisition by Disney will probably be great news for the franchise. I am in the pile with folks who feel that there is nothing that Disney can do to Star Wars that George Lucas hasn't already personally fucked up, and the franchise needs to be taken away from him in order to save it. Let him come up with meta- ideas, while actual writers and directors and other grown-ups implement them.

And yes, thank God an Ra and the Lords of Kobol and whoever else that the massive cultural open-pit latrine that is the EU will most likely be discarded. If they want to pick the bits of corn from the shit and re-use them, that's fine. But as long as they step back from the "Jedi as Marvel Superheroes" trope that the series has gone down that will be at least one positive step in the right direction.

Admittedly, I tend to harshly judge the EU by what I last remember as its worst, lowest example-- Vonda McIntyre's "The Crystal Star".

The fact that Disney thinks --seriously-- that they can have a fresh movie out the gate by 2015 indicates to me that there have probably been some quiet negotiations and preparations going on for some time.

[aussiemuscle308]

That's what I'm trying to tell you, kid. It ain't there. It's been totally blown away. Destroyed...by the Empire!

i can't believe no one's used Vader's line

"This will be a day long remembered..."

[Optimus Metallus]

So does anyone know how much input Disney has in what Pixar and Marvel do? I mean if this is just left to the people at Lucasfilm I don't see much changing. It's not like Lucasfilm needed money or anything.

Well, one big and obvious change is that Lucas will no longer have dictatorial power over any future films. The quality of any future films can only go up as a result.

[Optimus Metallus]

43 million might've been a high profit margin for a 3d re-release, but it's an absolutely atrocious showing for a SW film.

Yeah, but we're not talking about a brand new entry into the franchise, but a rerelease of possibly the most reviled film of the series which most everybody has already seen. There's a big difference between the two. The next time a Star Wars movie comes out, whether it's made by Christopher Nolan, George Lucas, or Uwe Boll, there's no way it doesn't make anything less than several hundred million dollars.

Now the Lucas-haters will get what they wanted: Star Wars by committee. The idea of making a Star Wars movie that isn't created by George Lucas is like a new Beatles album without John, Paul, George or Ringo.

"Star Wars by committee" is how we got A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. Star Wars where Lucas has absolute control over everything is how we got The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, and Revenge of the Sith. Given that, I'd gladly take Star Wars by committee any day of the week.

George Lucas certainly has his talents, I'm not denying that. The tone, the imagery, the special effects, the broad story arcs, those are his strengths, and any new films should play to those strengths. But when it comes to the screenplay, the dialogue, the directing? He's absolutely terrible at that, and it shows. It's no coincidence that the best film of the franchise, The Empire Strikes Back, was neither directed by him nor was it filmed from a screenplay penned by him.

I'm telling you guys,,, they are going to release EPVII in May. If something gets bumped it will be Avengers 2, but there is no reason to. Both movies are going to be seen by millions and millions of people and almost no one is going to have an issue paying to see both.

The release date for Avengers 2 is already locked in. There's simply no way they're going to start shuffling Avengers 2 around and replace it with something else, even if that something else is Star Wars. The Avengers is the THIRD highest grossing film of all time, while the four most profitable Star Wars movies are numbers 11, 30, 40, and 60 on the list of highest grossing films of all time. There is no way they're going to move a billion-and-a-half dollar film from its start day at the beginning of the summer and replace it with a movie which'll likely make anywhere from 50-66% as much as the box office which they'll likely get off Avengers 2.

Nor are they going to do anything as suicidal as releasing them both together. That'd be like shooting themselves in both feet. They need to have those movies in the maximum number of screens in order to bring in the largest amount of money. If Avengers 2 and Star Wars Episode VII are out then that'll limit the number of screens which either movie can play out and kill the potential profits which either film can bring in. So yeah, there's no way they're going to release two tentpoles simultaneously and compete against themselves like that. if anything, Star Wars will probably get a Christmas release.

Now that Star Wars is going to be a studio project with a huge amount of pressure to try to recover a chunk of the >$4 billion Disney paid for it before shooting begins, there will be multitudes of fingers in the pie. No studio would have ever agreed to shoot TESB with the good guys being thrashed on every level. That was Lucas' decision. Now he's out of the picture so every creative decision will now be approved by a committee.

So I guess you're not aware that Lucas considers The Empire Strikes Back to be the worst movie in the franchise? Lucas has his strengths, but we wouldn't have gotten the original Star Wars film franchise which we got if it weren't for all the various people who put their hand in the till. Star Wars wouldn't have been as great if it weren't for the superb editing job done by his wife, which saved what would've been an otherwise terrible movie from all reports. The Empire Strikes Back wouldn't have been a great movie if it weren't for the efforts of screenwriters Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan, director Irvin Kershner, as well as the input of Harrison Ford and other actors. Return of the Jedi was co-written by Lawrence Kasdan and directed by Richard Marquand. That's quite a lot of people, what one could consider a "committee", and yet they produced a superior product to the new trilogy, in which Lucas had total control.

As for the idea that "No studio would have ever agreed to shoot TESB with the good guys being thrashed on every level. That was Lucas' decision", did you see The Dark Knight? Because a studio signed off on a film where the love of Batman's life is killed, he's accused of murder, and ends up on the run. More on point, did you see Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, in which they killed off Jack Sparrow? That was a pretty bleak ending, and yet Disney signed off on that. Why wouldn't they permit the same in a future Star Wars movie? In any case, while I have no idea just how much impact Lucas had in how TESB turned out, given that he didn't have a direct hand in the screenplay itself, I do know that Jar Jar Binks was also his decision. We've seen how destructive his having total control can have over the Star Wars franchise, so his no longer having that power can only be beneficial to Star Wars.

So yeah, I'm cautiously optimistic about what Disney has in store for us. It really all depends on who they hire to write the screenplay and direct it. Would it be to much to hope that Kevin Smith gets the job? No matter what happens, though, I think that we can definitely count on seeing the original unedited trilogy on DVD and blu-ray, and that alone makes this all worthwhile.

[ray245]

I wonder if any new Star Wars movie would avoid the continuation of a Sith/Jedi conflict. Hell, a movie that avoids depicting another war on a galactic scale would be nice.

The never ending wars and conflict in the EU is one of the most horrible aspect of the franchise. The desire too pump out more wars and conflict was one of the major reason why the New Republic became such a joke as a government.

[Darksider]

Lucas should definitely be involved at the conceptual level. Even I can admit that.

Let him come up with a story, let competent writers turn it into a screenplay and let a competent director film it. Just like TESB.

I wholeheartedly agree. Like I said earlier, Lucas is a great overall idea guy, but he's mediocre at actually turning those great ideas into a workable screenplay. He can't do great dialog or set up an excellent scene, but if he lets other people do it with his ideas, the magic happens.

A great example of this is the Podrace scene from Ep1. It's visually stunning and a great spectacle, but taken as part of the larger film it's completely unnecessary and brings the pacing to a crashing halt. Someone needed to tell him that it was a very imaginative idea, but that it just didn't work withing the frame of the movie. However, since the only person advising him was his personal ass-slave Rick McCallum, nobody told him off.