Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by bobalot »

LadyTevar wrote: 2023-11-19 04:53pm
bobalot wrote: 2023-11-19 03:28pm Isreal banked a lot of finding a COBRA hidden base under the hospital. Found nothing and we have this.

Planting of weapons for the press.

I have read there was actually a bunker of some sort built under or near the hospital... by the Isrealis when they directly occupied the Gaza strip.
Yes, the Israelis built the bunkers, but Hamas has been using *SOME* of the other tunnels and bunkers Israel built, so why not this one?
It's possible.

Hamas are complete shitbags.

I suspect you wouldn't want to set your command centre at a location already known to the enemy.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Formless »

Lets not forget, the IDF is targeting other hospitals, and lying pathetically about the evidence they are gathering there as well. At one of them they claimed a document to be a list of terrorist names... and when they posted it to social media, arabic speakers quickly flagged that it was nothing but a fucking calendar with the only words on it being the days of the week in Arabic. The guy in the video couldn't even remember that Arabic is read right to left, not left to right. They aren't just lying about their evidence, they are doing so incompetently.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Ralin »

I would certainly hope that most hospitals in Gaza have bunkers and tunnels to take cover in. Same as how schools in the Midwest have tornado shelters.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Formless »

LadyTevar wrote: 2023-11-19 04:53pmYes, the Israelis built the bunkers, but Hamas has been using *SOME* of the other tunnels and bunkers Israel built, so why not this one?
Just spitballing, but: because they get more value out of it as a hospital than as a command center? Because they know Israel well enough to know civilian hospitals would eventually be targeted anyway, and it was better to let the IDF walk right into a PR trap? Because they're maybe, just maybe, not as shitty as some people think that they would put the very civilians that support them in danger? The "human shields" argument isn't working for Israel anymore, because the IDF keeps putting their foot in their mouth, responding out of proportion to the initial violence, and now (predictably) lying to the press, so Hamas doesn't need to hide behind civilians. Just the opposite, IMO they need the IDF to keep gambling on finding them in places where the "human shields" argument would predict that they are, but they need those to be PR traps where the IDF and its intelligence look like fools, criminals, or both for attacking them and not finding a shred of evidence Hamas was ever there.

Because at this point, even if Hamas was there, they seem to have been long gone if the IDF has to make shit up for the press.
Ralin wrote: 2023-11-19 10:42pm I would certainly hope that most hospitals in Gaza have bunkers and tunnels to take cover in. Same as how schools in the Midwest have tornado shelters.
Yeah, some of the sources I've read are more careful to describe what's under the hospital not as a bunker per-say, but as an extensive basement instead. Bunker implies something hardened against weapons, but a basement can fulfill all sorts of other purposes that the Israeli architects themselves might have had in mind. Its like calling the steam tunnels beneath a hospital a bunker and hoping no one notices that it isn't labeled like that on the blueprints.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Zwinmar »

Yeah watched one where the IDF Lt. Col. gave a 'tour' of the evidence of them using the hospital or an HQ. They show 5 duffel bags that had weapons and one backpack with a laptop. I have seen what a hasty hq looks like, this was not that. From what was shown, yeah that was not an hq and could easily be a plant.

Edit: Telegraph Video here is the link to it.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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At this point, I doubt any of Hamas' true leadership is anywhere within Gaza, Egypt, or Lebanon. They've buggered off to where Israel cannot reach them without doing Mossad-Nazi-hunter tactics.

The Hamas left doing the fighting in Gaza are the non-coms, the rank and file the leaders are praising as heros and martyrs while marking off the expendables, while the leaders sit back and watch IDF and Bibi shoot themselves in the foot.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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LadyTevar wrote: 2023-11-20 08:49am At this point, I doubt any of Hamas' true leadership is anywhere within Gaza, Egypt, or Lebanon. They've buggered off to where Israel cannot reach them without doing Mossad-Nazi-hunter tactics.

The Hamas left doing the fighting in Gaza are the non-coms, the rank and file the leaders are praising as heros and martyrs while marking off the expendables, while the leaders sit back and watch IDF and Bibi shoot themselves in the foot.
Makes sense. In a modern conflict, the "true leadership" don't need to be near an actual battlefield, so for continuity of leadership it makes sure not to risk them.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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LadyTevar wrote: 2023-11-20 08:49am At this point, I doubt any of Hamas' true leadership is anywhere within Gaza, Egypt, or Lebanon. They've buggered off to where Israel cannot reach them without doing Mossad-Nazi-hunter tactics.

The Hamas left doing the fighting in Gaza are the non-coms, the rank and file the leaders are praising as heros and martyrs while marking off the expendables, while the leaders sit back and watch IDF and Bibi shoot themselves in the foot.
I remember some articles about talks with Hamas leadership in Qatar. So that seems to be where they are.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Which raises the question of how much they can really be considered the true leadership instead of the PR/diplomatic wing of Hamas. Since I sort of doubt anyone in Gaza is going to listen to them vs the leaders they know personally who are working and suffering alongside everyone else if it ever comes to it.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Ceasefire, and an exchange of hostages.
Summary
Israel and Hamas have agreed a deal to release 50 hostages being held in Gaza during a four-day pause in fighting

The start of the pause will be announced in the next 24 hours - if successful it will be the first break in fighting since 7 October

On Wednesday morning, Israel confirmed its ground and air operation in Gaza is continuing, before the pause starts

Hamas says 150 Palestinian women and teenagers will be released from Israeli jails under the deal

Up to another 150 Palestinians could be released - as well as another 50 hostages from Gaza - after the initial four-day pause

Israel's government insists that this isn't the end of the war, reiterating its commitment to "complete the elimination of Hamas"

Israel began attacking Gaza after Hamas fighters crossed the border on 7 October, killing 1,200 people and taking about 240 others hostage

Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry says more than 14,000 people - including more than 5,000 children - have been killed in Israel's campaign
I would like to know why Israel had 150 women and teenagers in Israeli jails. I'd like to know what the charges were.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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LadyTevar wrote: 2023-11-22 06:38am I would like to know why Israel had 150 women and teenagers in Israeli jails. I'd like to know what the charges were.
Something more lawyerly, but "failure to abandon Gaza to Israel or die in bombings" would be my guess.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by LadyTevar »

Khaat wrote: 2023-11-22 10:56am
LadyTevar wrote: 2023-11-22 06:38am I would like to know why Israel had 150 women and teenagers in Israeli jails. I'd like to know what the charges were.
Something more lawyerly, but "failure to abandon Gaza to Israel or die in bombings" would be my guess.
Are we sure those women and teenagers were taken during the last month? Or have they been prisoners longer?
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by Gandalf »

According to the morning comedy crew at Morning Joe, they're apparently Hamas operatives.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Gandalf wrote: 2023-11-22 03:34pm According to the morning comedy crew at Morning Joe, they're apparently Hamas operatives.
Just like the various United Nations facilities, water pumping stations, bakeries, fishing boats, AP Offices, children's hospitals, etc.

All Hamas.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Well. IDF is doubling down on their "Hospital was Hamas Base" theory
Abu Salamiya, the director of al-Shifa hospital in north Gaza, has been detained by Israeli authorities for questioning
Israel's military and ISA security agency say they've found evidence showing that the hospital, under his management, "served as a Hamas command and control centre"
Hamas has long denied the allegations about al-Shifa, Gaza City's largest hospital, which hundreds of people left over the weekend
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Qatar is promising the hostages will be released starting 4pm Friday.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-mid ... t-67504657
First group of hostages to be released at 4pm - Qatar
A spokesman for the Qatari foreign ministry has been giving some details of the deal under which some hostages will be released in exchange for a four-day pause.

A list of the civilians to be released from Gaza has been received, he said, and the first group of civilians will be released at 4pm on Friday.

He said the criteria on who is to be released was "purely humanitarian" - "getting woman and children out of harm's way as soon as possible".
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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I'm just amazed Hamas leadership is even able to communicate with the guys on the ground given the Israel's efforts to cripple said comms.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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BBC LIVE
Red Cross confirms 24 hostages released
The Red Cross has just confirmed that 24 hostages have been released. In a post on X, they said: "We are relieved to confirm the safe release of 24 hostages.

"We have facilitated this release by transporting them from Gaza to the Rafah border, marking the real-life impact of our role as a neutral intermediary between the parties."
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Jon Schwarz:
I genuinely did not anticipate that we'd have so much "The Nazis: Not Really That Bad" discourse.
He's referring to the new line from IDF camp followers that goes something like this:

1) Hamas members were proud of their brutality: recording their violence for future thugs to enjoy.
2) Nazis were not.
3) Hamas is worse than the Nazis.

The second and third items are such obvious bullshit that even an outright Holocaust denier like David Irving* would think twice about spewing them. The first item might be true, but if it is then it's more likely because every cell phone has a high-quality camera built into it and between those and other handy video cameras it's so much easier to record footage (this is also why there's an infinite amount of porn available) that it was at Babi Yar.

* Like David Irving, Douglas Murray and Andrew Roberts are part of that proud tradition of British cranks who get a weird thrill out of downplaying the Nazis' crimes against humanity.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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EnterpriseSovereign wrote: 2023-11-23 11:29pm I'm just amazed Hamas leadership is even able to communicate with the guys on the ground given the Israel's efforts to cripple said comms.
Cellphone to an entrance to an underground tunnel not under enemy interdiction.
Once you have that, all you need is a guy carrying a printed note moving into the tunnels and avoiding detection.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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How Hamas Built the Attack Force
Five armed Palestinian groups joined Hamas in the deadly 7 October attack on Israel after training together in military-style exercises from 2020 onwards, BBC News analysis shows.

The groups carried out joint drills in Gaza which closely resembled the tactics used during the deadly assault - including at a site less than 1km (0.6 miles) from the barrier with Israel - and posted them on social media.
They practised hostage-taking, raiding compounds and breaching Israel's defences during these exercises, the last of which was held just 25 days before the attack.

BBC Arabic and BBC Verify have collated evidence which shows how Hamas brought together Gaza's factions to hone their combat methods - and ultimately execute a raid into Israel which has plunged the region into war.
Lots of Photos with a large article detailing which groups, where they trained, what was taught.
Makes me wonder how Israel didn't realize what was happening.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Truce expanded 48hrs, more hostages released
The temporary ceasefire between Israel and Hamas has entered its fifth day after a 48-hour extension was agreed

Three Palestinians will be released from Israeli prisons in exchange for each Israeli hostage returned from Gaza

But Hamas says it is not holding all of the captives in the Gaza Strip, which could complicate efforts to free the most vulnerable
I know there were theories they'd moved hostages out of Gaza to other places. Now they have to find a way to get the hostages back where they can be released without showing where the hostages went... and maybe against the wishes of whomever's actually holding the hostages.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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Israeli Forces Raid West Bank
Israel says it has carried out a raid on the Jenin refugee camp in the occupied West Bank, and killed "two senior terrorists"

Separately, the Palestinian Authority says two children were also killed by gunfire in Jenin

The fresh violence comes on the sixth day of a truce between Israel and Hamas in Gaza - with Israel saying it's received a list of hostages set to be released today
WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY THINKING!?!? They're in the middle of negotiating another extension of the Cease Fire, of getting back MORE hostages from Hamas, and THEY FUCKIN ATTACK WEST BANK?!?! DID THEY NOT THINK THIS THRU?! Did they think "oh, it's not Gaza, it's West Bank, Hamas won't care"?!?!?
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

Post by EnterpriseSovereign »

No mention of it on the news here, the exchanges are still happening.
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Re: Israel orders mass 'evacuation' from Northern Gaza, humanitarian crisis certain to ensue

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LadyTevar wrote: 2023-11-29 11:15am
WHAT THE FUCK ARE THEY THINKING!?!? ... DID THEY NOT THINK THIS THRU?! Did they think "oh, it's not Gaza, it's West Bank, Hamas won't care"?!?!?
Have you even been paying attention?

Is it not obvious that the Israeli government flat out does not give a fuck about antagonizing the Palestinians and all associated organizations? Is it not well-established that they can and will ignore to all appearances infinite amounts of scandal and international disapproval? They at best have some, and I emphasize some, collective desire to get those hostages back alive, and it seems pretty clear that the people calling the shots are lukewarm on that at best.
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