Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

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Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

https://popularmechanics.com/military/n ... p-collide/
The Venezuelan Navy offshore patrol vessel Naiguata, sent to intercept a lowly cruise ship, accidentally owned itself on Monday. After ramming the cruise ship RCGS Resolute's steel-reinforced hull, the patrol boat sank. (The good news: There were no injuries.)

The Resolute suffered only minor damage because it was reinforced to withstand iceberg-infested waters.

According to Maritime Executive, the incident took place 13 nautical miles off the coast of Isla de Tortuga, an uninhabited Venezuelan island. The Naiguata ordered the Resolute to follow it to Venezuela and port, on the pretext of “violation of Venezuelan territorial waters.”

While the cruise ship crew was consulting with the home office, the navy vessel fired several warning shots and began ramming the cruise ship.

What the crew of the Naiguata apparently did not realize was that the Resolute’s hull is stronger than average because of its iceberg-resistant hull. The ship’s website describes the hull as having “high density steel plating” to allow it to sail in “ice laden large waters.”

Columbia Cruise Services, operators of the Resolute, tell the ship’s side of the story:

While the Master was in contact with the head office, gun shots were fired and, shortly thereafter, the navy vessel approached the starboard side at speed with an angle of 135° and purposely collided with the RCGS RESOLUTE. The navy vessel continued to ram the starboard bow in an apparent attempt to turn the ship’s head towards Venezuelan territorial waters.
While the RCGS RESOLUTE sustained minor damages, not affecting vessel’s seaworthiness, it occurs that the navy vessel suffered severe damages while making contact with the ice-strengthened bulbous bow of the ice-class expedition cruise vessel RCGS RESOLUTE and started to take water.
The Naiguata ended up sinking. According to Columbia Cruise Services, Resolute stayed in the vicinity until the Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre (MRCC) Curaçao, the authority responsible for local incidents at sea, told it to continue on its voyage. Resolute also claims that offers to lend aid to the stricken ship were “left unanswered.”

The Venezuelan military disputed that, stating “the action of the ship Resolute is considered cowardly and criminal, since it did not attend to the rescue of the crew, in breach of the international regulations that regulate the rescue of life at sea.”

A statement attributed to Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro alleged that the cruise ship was actually to blame in an "act of aggression and piracy."

After being released by the MRCC, the Resolute sailed on to safety, docking at the island of Curaçao.

The website FleetMon has a photo of damage to the Resolute’s hull, which appears minor, as well as a file photo of the Naiguata. The Resolute, built in 1993, is 400 feet long and 59 feet wide. It displaces 8,378 tons and normally carries up to 146 passengers.

Spain's Navantia shipyards built the Naiguata in 2009 as a coastal patrol ship. The Naiguata was 259 feet long, had a top speed of 22 knots, and displaced 1,453 tons. This ship was also armed with a 76-millimeter Oto-Melara rapid fire deck gun, a 35-millimeter Oerlikon Millennium close-in weapon system, and two .50-caliber machine guns. As a surface ship, Naiguata typically embarks with a crew of 34.

It’s not clear what happened here, but one thing is clear: Venezuela’s story doesn’t add up. For one, Resolute was 13 nautical miles off the coast of Isla de Tortuga, and territorial waters extend up to 12 miles.

Plus, an unarmed cruise ship that takes no aggressive action can't be an aggressor and commit “piracy” against an armed navy patrol boat. Finally, the Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre is a non-partisan agency that would have records of it giving Resolute permission to leave the scene.
Riiight, the unarmed cruise liner in international waters committed an "act of aggression and piracy" against a naval vessel. Admittedly calling Venezuela's fleet a "navy" after a performance like this is using the term somewhat loosely, both in terms of the nature of their actions ("pirates" is more like it) and in terms of their abilities.

Venezuela should cut its losses and be glad that no one was hurt and the world has bigger problems to deal with right now.
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by LadyTevar »

I'm wondering if the Naiguata's captain has done this before, to ships that couldn't withstand being rammed
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Wouldn't that have garnered some attention, though? Unless he did it to someone too poor and lacking in credibility for their complaints to be taken seriously (or killed the witnesses, I suppose).

You know, this story kind of puts all those posts about Federation starships being glorified passenger liners in a new light. ;)
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by Zaune »

On a related note, questionably-sourced rumour has it that the liner had recently changed hands under mysterious and possibly questionable circumstances and the Venezuelan patrol boat was attempting to check the ship's papers and question the captain about who the new owners were and what they were planning. There doesn't seem to be much evidence either way, but I must admit that if I was a paranoid billionaire looking to ride out both the pandemic and the socioeconomic shitstorm that will probably follow, buying a slightly used icebreaker and taking a sea cruise to Antarctica would be one option I'd look into.
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Zaune wrote: 2020-04-04 10:53pm On a related note, questionably-sourced rumour has it that the liner had recently changed hands under mysterious and possibly questionable circumstances and the Venezuelan patrol boat was attempting to check the ship's papers and question the captain about who the new owners were and what they were planning. There doesn't seem to be much evidence either way, but I must admit that if I was a paranoid billionaire looking to ride out both the pandemic and the socioeconomic shitstorm that will probably follow, buying a slightly used icebreaker and taking a sea cruise to Antarctica would be one option I'd look into.
Given the inconsistencies in Venezuela's story so far, and the lack of evidence, I'll treat that theory with extreme skepticism until its corroborated from a reliable source, or preferably multiple reliable sources.

In any case, it would of course not justify attempting to ram the ship, in international waters, while it was requesting more information on how to respond.

Mostly, though, I just find this story funny, for the shear layers of fuck up on the Venezuelan Navy's part. It'd be a hell of a lot less funny if anyone had been injured or killed, or if they'd successfully seized the ship and provoked an international hostage crisis, but as it stands...

Its one thing to attack a foreign civilian vessel in international waters. Its another to fuck it up so badly you lose a patrol boat to an unarmed vessel.
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by Ralin »

So does anyone with experience with ships and naval/coast guard stuff know if ramming a larger vessel to turn it around is considered a normal tactic when dealing with a larger ship that the authorities don't want to leave?
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by Patroklos »

Shouldering is a thing, but it is a last resort due to the risks involved to your own vessel. Its generally used to defend a more valuable asset and you aren't trying to ram. Rather you are making a calculated gamble the other side will blink, but if they don't then you have forced them to demonstrate hostile intent by ramming you. Basically you are forcing them to take the first hostile act.

You saw this a lot between NATO and USSR vessels back in the day playing chicken with each other. To a lesser extent, Russia and China do this to everyone else in recent history.
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by Ralin »

Patroklos wrote: 2020-04-05 12:58am Shouldering is a thing, but it is a last resort due to the risks involved to your own vessel. Its generally used to defend a more valuable asset and you aren't trying to ram.
I did wonder if the article was using an inaccurate term.
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by madd0ct0r »

This is weird.

https://www.beyondships2.com/faq-bulbous-bow.html

Bulbous bow is not ice breaker (normally) but is stream liner.


Icebreaker design below is basically shallow front hull that climbs and uses reinforced ship spin to bring full weight down on ice.

I wonder if the attempted shouldering caused the prow of venuzualean ship to slip under the unexpectedly shallow prow with a twist and buckle following.
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by Enigma »

madd0ct0r wrote: 2020-04-05 06:15am This is weird.

https://www.beyondships2.com/faq-bulbous-bow.html

Bulbous bow is not ice breaker (normally) but is stream liner.


Icebreaker design below is basically shallow front hull that climbs and uses reinforced ship spin to bring full weight down on ice.

I wonder if the attempted shouldering caused the prow of venuzualean ship to slip under the unexpectedly shallow prow with a twist and buckle following.
https://coastguard.dodlive.mil/files/20 ... -FINAL.jpg
According to One Ocean Expeditions, the Resolute is a Lloyds1AS Ice Class ship. Doing a brief check on the Ice Class classifications, 1AS can navigate through first year ice of up to 1m (3.33ft) in thickness.

No wonder it was able to sink the patrol boat.
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by madd0ct0r »

"we thought the cruiser might be full of mercenaries here to attack venuzelan army locations".

I can almost see that as being a legitmate conern. There's been plenty of stranger coup attempts around the world.
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by Marko Dash »

OK, i hadn't noticed any mentions before of them FIRING at the cruise ship.

at what point would this be declared piracy and grounds to sink any VZ warship outside of it's territory.
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by Zaune »

Marko Dash wrote: 2020-04-09 02:58pmOK, i hadn't noticed any mentions before of them FIRING at the cruise ship.

at what point would this be declared piracy and grounds to sink any VZ warship outside of it's territory.
If they went for disabling fire without at least attempting to board after the shot over the bow, maybe?
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by Lord Revan »

Based on admitbly little info what the video shows it seems like the patrol ship tried to stop/redirect the cruise ship and severely underestimated how much it takes to stop/move a ship of that size and thus the patrol ship got essentially ran over by the larger ship.

That said assuming we're getting an honest telling of events here the Venezuelan story doesn't seem to hold water (you'll have to excuse the pun there).
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by Sky Captain »

At least Venezuelan navy crew actively tried to get their ship wrecked not like Norwegian navy which lost top of the line destroyer by accidentally crashing into perfectly visible oil tanker that was barely moving.
madd0ct0r wrote: 2020-04-09 11:08am "we thought the cruiser might be full of mercenaries here to attack venuzelan army locations".

I can almost see that as being a legitmate conern. There's been plenty of stranger coup attempts around the world.
Note to self, take icebreaker again :)
If that truly was Venezuelan concern do they have legal authority to inspect foreign ship in international waters? It seems that proper way to conduct such operation would be to send over a helicopter or small boat with boarding team and not try to push much larger ship with small patrol ship.
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by ArmorPierce »

madd0ct0r wrote: 2020-04-09 11:08am "we thought the cruiser might be full of mercenaries here to attack venuzelan army locations".

I can almost see that as being a legitmate conern. There's been plenty of stranger coup attempts around the world.
Note to self, take icebreaker again :)
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by Zaune »

It's just been that kind of year, hasn't it?
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Re: Venezuelan Navy commits piracy, loses battle against unarmed German cruise liner.

Post by madd0ct0r »

ArmorPierce wrote: 2020-05-09 07:10pm
madd0ct0r wrote: 2020-04-09 11:08am "we thought the cruiser might be full of mercenaries here to attack venuzelan army locations".

I can almost see that as being a legitmate conern. There's been plenty of stranger coup attempts around the world.
Note to self, take icebreaker again :)
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