Merkel suffers blow as FDP pulls out of coalition talks

[Crazedwraith]

The BBC

Germany's Merkel suffers blow as FDP pulls out of coalition talks
Talks on forming a coalition government in Germany have collapsed, leaving Angela Merkel facing her biggest challenge in 12 years as chancellor.

The free-market liberal FDP pulled out after four weeks of talks with Mrs Merkel's CDU/CSU bloc and the Greens.

FDP leader Christian Lindner said there was "no basis of trust" between them.

What happens next is unclear, but Mrs Merkel is due to meet President Frank-Walter Steinmeier, who has the power to call elections.

The German stock market slipped slightly on the news that the talks had collapsed.

Mrs Merkel said she regretted the collapse, adding she would meet the German president later on Monday to formally tell him negotiations had failed.

Her bloc won September's poll, but many voters deserted the mainstream parties.

"As chancellor, I will do everything to ensure that this country is well managed in the difficult weeks to come," she said.

What went wrong in the talks?

It is not quite clear.

The parties involved in the talks are reported to be deeply divided over tax, asylum and environmental policies.

Although rumours had spread that a deal was close, the FDP's leader emerged from the venue in the middle of the night surrounded by his party colleagues and told reporters that the party was leaving the process.

He said that while the FDP knew it could not steer the course of the entire republic with just 11% of the vote, the parties involved in talks had "no shared vision" of how the country should be modernised, and four weeks of talks had left them with "many inconsistencies, unanswered questions and conflicts".

"It is better not to rule than to rule badly. Goodbye!" Mr Lindner said.

The co-leader of the Greens, Simone Peter, said the FDP had been "irresponsible, dubious and calculating".

Her party colleague Katrin Göring-Eckardt said the Greens had been "ready to talk" and found a "much greater understanding" with the CDU and FDP through the talks, especially over migration politics, climate change and agriculture.

Mrs Merkel blamed differing cultures and styles for the collapse but said: "We think we were on a path to finding a solution."

One of the sticking points is reported to be whether Syrian refugees should be allowed to bring family members to join them in Germany.

Mrs Merkel's conservatives, mindful of the electoral success of the anti-Islam, anti-immigrant AfD, are cautious and want to extend a moratorium on allowing migrants to be reunited with their families.

After winning its first parliamentary seats, the AfD (Alternative for Germany) vowed to fight "an invasion of foreigners".

What happens next?

There are a few options.

Mrs Merkel could form a minority government, for instance with the Greens. But this would leave her having to patch together support for every vote - a big change for a leader who has been used to ruling as part of a grand coalition.

That coalition could return - Mrs Merkel's Christian Democrats joining with the second-largest party in parliament, the social democratic SPD, would have a comfortable majority. SPD leaders have repeatedly ruled out this option but may be persuaded to change their minds.

Or there could be fresh elections. These would need to be called by President Steinmeier, after a long drawn-out process. Analysts say new elections would be likely to benefit the AfD most, so other parties would probably try to avoid them.

I actually had no idea things weren't settled after the last election yet. How are things in Germany? This presumably has a big impact.

[cosmicalstorm]

Hangover from the Open Borders Project IMHO. Rightfully so.
It was sloppy, they should have spent those funds on refugee women and actual Children.
Not fit adult men.

[K. A. Pital]

No, that's just FDP and more moderate right-wingers from Merkel's party playing into the hands of the extreme right - neo-fascists from the nth rebranding, also known as AfD - by being dumbasses.

But in any case it is fairly logical that the largest economic crisis of capitalism continued into a full-blown political crisis that gave us Brexit, Trump and who knows what else it will yet give.

[Darth Yan]

Hangover from the Open Borders Project IMHO. Rightfully so.
It was sloppy, they should have spent those funds on refugee women and actual Children.
Not fit adult men.

Except that the actual stats show that very few refugees actually commit rape. 2.5% of all refugees thereabouts commit crimes, and most of those are petty things like theft. Syrians are also less likely to rape out of immigrants.

We get it; you think syrian men are rapist animals. Sorta like the rest of the far right who cheerfully ignore that rape was a problem LONG before muslims ever came to Germany (in general the far right are the kinda people who, if the rapists were white would defend the rapist.)

[Thanas]

Hangover from the Open Borders Project IMHO. Rightfully so.
It was sloppy, they should have spent those funds on refugee women and actual Children.
Not fit adult men.

You are being an idiot again. Have you tried not being an idiot?

[Crazedwraith]

Other than cosmicalstorm being an idiot. (Though I notice he didn't mention rape at all, Darth Yan)

What implications does this have Thanas? Is another election likely? Or do you think Merkel will forge a coalition or go it as a minority government? From an entirely outsider perspective it seems like she'll be in a position like May, though with a much better history of being an actual successful leader and not having shot herself in the foot calling an unnecessary election.

[cosmicalstorm]

Germany is on the course for serious social instability, this kind of political calamity I expect to happen again and again.

150 % increase in homeless-ness for example.

860.000 Menschen in Deutschland sind wohnungslos
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft ... 92285.html

Political polarization should also increase unless they actually manage to fast track some Internet Berlin Wall to stop all the wrong-think.

[Simon_Jester]

The problem isn't wrongthink, it's dumbassthink...

But more generally, yes,when you let a whole bunch of people into your country rapidly, homelessness is going to rise. The solution is to build homeless shelters. It costs money but it's not that hard.

[Thanas]

What implications does this have Thanas? Is another election likely? Or do you think Merkel will forge a coalition or go it as a minority government? From an entirely outsider perspective it seems like she'll be in a position like May, though with a much better history of being an actual successful leader and not having shot herself in the foot calling an unnecessary election.

Looks like it will be new elections.

Germany is on the course for serious social instability, this kind of political calamity I expect to happen again and again.

150 % increase in homeless-ness for example.

860.000 Menschen in Deutschland sind wohnungslos
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft ... 92285.html

Political polarization should also increase unless they actually manage to fast track some Internet Berlin Wall to stop all the wrong-think.

Serious social instability? lol.

The overall situation is much better than it was ten years ago even with the refuge crisis.

[K. A. Pital]

I wouldn’t say there is “serious social instability”, Thanas, but could you please explain how exactly the situation is better than 10 years ago?

10 years ago a bunch of rebranded neo-Nazis wouldn’t stand a chance of being elected to Parliament...

[cosmicalstorm]

The Police-chief story from a few days ago did not seem very inspiring either.

People say this is alarmist-bullshit exactly like what was being said about the Jugoslavia diaspora and I hope they are right.

But to be honest, I don't see Germanys fine meritocratic, secular, anti-fascist culture reproducing into the next generation.

[/Police academies have never quite recovered from the 1980s US comedy movie series, but the claims emerging from Berlin’s police training centre are no laughing matter.

The German capital is buzzing with allegations from whistleblowers that Arab clans in Berlin are working to plant family members as informants inside the police force.

The claims – and the police chief’s thin-skinned denials – have given rise to concern in the German capital. Almost a year after police botched their response to the Christmas market attack, the dismissive official attitude to criticism is now as much a part of the story as the original claims.

It all began with a WhatsApp recording in which an unnamed person claiming to be a police trainer complained of an unbearable atmosphere in some academy classes where up to 40 per cent trainees were of non-German origin.

The trainer claimed trainees refused to learn, were violent towards each other and concluded his tirade with the words: “They are not colleagues, they are the enemy. The enemy in our ranks.”

When the recording became public, further claims followed: that Arab mafia clans were trying to get family members into the force to report on investigations from the inside.

Slovenly appearance

Berlin police trainers complain in this week’s Der Spiegel how one entire class failed their arms training, and how many students had a slovenly appearance and showed lacked of respect for authority. A repeated concern: the rising number of Turkish and Arab recruits in the ranks.

“I’ve no idea how long this can go well until hardcore Erdogan fans meet Kurdish demonstrators,” said an unnamed source to Der Spiegel magazine.

Berlin police chief Klaus Kandt dismissed the infiltration allegations as “patently” false and unfounded. They put all police under a cloud of suspicion, he argued, in particular efforts to recruit from migrant communities.




Berlin’s interior minister Andreas Geisel said he was alarmed – not by the allegations but their “racist tone” seething with “xenophobic resentment”.

Opposition parties have called on the police to own up to problems in its ranks, whether xenophobic police officers or clan infiltration.

Critics see links between the latest problems and poor pay and conditions, low recruitment rates and a loosening of standards, such as in the fitness and German fluency tests.

Drugs and porn

“There are a lot of applicants who don’t even make it past the written test,” said Michael Haug, youth leader of the German police union.

One recent recruit was found to have been a drug dealer, another an amateur porn star who was reprimanded but allowed remain in training.

In June, scores of Berlin officers were sent home early from policing the G20 in Hamburg after a late-night drunken party including al-fresco sex and a striptease involving a bathrobe and a service revolver.

The common thread through it all, Berlin’s police union has warned, is the “absence of a culture that accepts criticism”.

And that, the union fears, has potentially left the Berlin police leadership blind to serious problems in the force, including what union leaders confirm are “concrete clues” of gang infiltration attempts.
quote]
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/e ... -1.3287367

[Thanas]

I wouldn’t say there is “serious social instability”, Thanas, but could you please explain how exactly the situation is better than 10 years ago?

The social situation is better. Less unemployment, less deficit, more money for healthcare and social services. Also, look at how closely rightwing fascists barely missed entry into the parliaments in the late 90s and early 00s.

Cosmical Ali, maybe inform yourself about the problem with the Berlin police force before you speak about it. They have faced budget cuts and inept political leadership, which tends to not attract the best candidates. That clans are trying to get informants is also nothing new, lebanese and vietnamese clans have tried to do so since the 90s.

[K. A. Pital]

The social situation is better. Less unemployment, less deficit, more money for healthcare and social services. Also, look at how closely rightwing fascists barely missed entry into the parliaments in the late 90s and early 00s.

You are right, official unemployment seems to be improving (8% to 3,7%), but when cross-checking against other statistics, e.g. poverty rate, it seems poverty rate is rising:

[cosmicalstorm]

I did some Reading to see what was plausible in near term German politics.

The conclusion seems to be that Merkel is the most conservative candidate on immigration issues. If she goes out she will almost certainly be replaced by someone even more prone to Open Borders projects.

This means that if Merkel goes Germany can take two ways.

1. I'm a racist idiot, Germany basks in a new era of multicultural open borders epicness. I sure hope so.

2. I'm a realist, Germany gets into a lot of trouble.

Note this:
Does not matter who these young men are.
For all I care if you took a million white blonde aryan men aged 15-39 and put them in the same spot:
a.) Different country.
b.) nothing to much do.
The men will chase girls, gamble, get drunk, do drugs, cause trouble.
But most of these men right now and in the future are actually from the worlds most patriarchal and religious societies.

[K. A. Pital]

They aren't mutually exclusive, you know. Germany can get into trouble, but you can still be a racist idiot.

[cosmicalstorm]

Yes I am a racist.

There are countless variations between different human groups Mito-DNA and Nuclear DNA.
Who knows which race is "best"? I don't. But I can see difference everywhere.

All difference should be mapped and what ever shortcomings should be corrected with genetic editing surgery.

Nobody should be disadvantaged, humans should be rejuvenated and not allowed to age to Death.

But not an idiot. I don't want Hitler, death camps or any of the nonsense that took place during World Wars. I want peaceful transhumanism.

[Iroscato]

Yes I am a racist.

Finally, admittance. It's the first step to recovery y'know.

[LadyTevar]

BEFORE This turns into a dogpile on CosmicalStorm for being a racist and an idjit for announcing it boldly on this forum, remember this thread is NOT ABOUT RACISM, and any and all comments and decision should be about the OP.

Not about CosmicalStorm.
If you want to insult, belittle, deride, and dog-pile him, do it in PMs.