Yet even more legal troubles for Palin

[General Zod]

Uh oh!

(CNN) -- Outgoing Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin may have violated state ethics laws by letting supporters set up a legal defense fund to help her battle ethics complaints, a preliminary report on the issue has found.

An investigator hired by the state personnel board recommended Palin -- who gives up her office on Sunday -- refuse money from the defense fund and ask the state to pay legal fees for ethics complaints that have been dismissed.

Palin attorney Thomas Van Flein said the report is not final, however, and he is preparing "supplemental information" for the investigator.

"There has been no Board finding of an ethics violation, and there is a detailed legal process to follow before there is a final resolution," Van Flein said in a statement released to reporters. He added, "Whatever you have seen was released in violation of law."

In a posting on her Twitter page, Palin said, "new info was just requested even; no final report."

Palin was the Republican vice presidential candidate in 2008. In announcing her resignation earlier this month, she cited the cost of battling ethics complaints filed by critics as one of the reasons she is quitting about two-thirds of the way through her four-year term.

Most complaints have been dismissed, though one led to her paying back taxes on state per diem funds, and she agreed to repay about $8,100 in travel expenses for her children in another case.

Palin supporter Kristan Cole formed the Alaska Fund Trust in April to pay legal bills Van Flein said topped $500,000. Its Web site features a photograph of Palin and her husband, Todd, and calls itself "the official legal fund created to defend the integrity of the Alaska governor's office from an onslaught of political attacks."

In a statement issued Tuesday evening, Cole said the fund "was thoroughly vetted by numerous attorneys from Alaska to the East Coast." According to a copy of the preliminary report obtained by CNN, Personnel Board investigator Thomas Daniel wrote that Cole told him Palin approved the use of her photo and the "official" designation.

"In light of the evidence that the governor expressly authorized the creation of the trust and the fact the trust Web site quite openly uses the governor's position to solicit donations, there is probably cause to believe that Gov. Palin used, or attempted to use, her official position for personal gain," Daniel wrote.

Daniel wrote that it would be "particularly appropriate" for the state to pay legal fees for a public official when an ethics complaint is dismissed -- but he said the state Ethics Act would have to be changed to do so.

"I can only apply the Ethics Act as currently written," he wrote. "And as currently written, it does not allow a state official to use her position to solicit funds to pay for a private attorney or any other personal expense."

The Alaska Fund Trust limits donations to $150 and bars state contractors or lobbyists from contributing. It has not yet reported contributions.

There's some serious irony here. . .incredibly likely ethics violations in setting up a defense fund to help yourself fight off ethics violation allegations. . .wow. It just doesn't get much more thick than this.

[Pelranius]

Is it possible that Caribou Barbie resigned in the understanding that her successor would give her a pardon at a future date if she needed one?

[General Zod]

Is it possible that Caribou Barbie resigned in the understanding that her successor would give her a pardon at a future date if she needed one?

Unlikely.

Alaska
You can apply to be relieved from further punishment and disabilities imposed by reason of conviction of a criminal offense. It is an act of grace which represents forgiveness for the particular crime.

The primary legal effect of a pardon is that it sets aside a conviction for a crime committed under the laws of the State of Alaska or the Territory of Alaska. This serves to relieve the person to whom it is granted from all further punishment and other legal consequences imposed by reason of the conviction. A pardon will restore your rights to own and register a fire arm.

You may submit a written request to the head of the agency responsible for maintaining past conviction or current offender information, asking the agency to seal your criminal record.

A person about whom information is sealed under this section may deny the existence of the information and of an arrest, charge, conviction, or sentence shown in the information.

Automatic Restoration of Rights:
The rights to vote and to serve on a jury are lost upon conviction of a felony and automatically restored upon completion of sentence (“unconditional discharge”).
Alaska Stat. §§ 09.20.020; 15.05.030(a); 33.30.241.
A felony offender may not possess concealed weapon for 10 years following discharge (lost permanently if offense is one against the person), unless conviction set aside or pardoned.

Eligibility:
Two years after completion of sentence. Persons convicted under federal law or convicted under the law of another state are ineligible for a Governor’s pardon. •

Effect:
Pardon is the only way to regain rights lost and remove disabilities under Alaska law. Pardon has the effect of “setting aside” the conviction, so that individual is deemed not to have been convicted (though conviction remains on the record).

LEGAL EFFECTS OF A PARDON IN ALASKA

Rights
One of the primary misconceptions about pardons in Alaska is that a pardon is the only manner by which one may have one’s rights restored. In some states a pardon is the only manner by which a convicted felon may have his or her civil rights restored. However, in Alaska some rights are automatically restored upon unconditional discharge, which is the completion of one’s sentence, including any period of probation, discretionary parole, or mandatory parole.

Right to Serve on a Jury: A person is disqualified from serving as a juror if the person has been convicted of a felony for which the person has not been unconditionally discharged. AS 09.20.037(1)
Thus, in Alaska, a pardon is not necessary to restore one’s eligibility to serve on a jury or to vote. The right to vote and the right to serve on a jury are automatically restored to felons upon unconditional discharge of the sentence.

Voting Rights: Any person convicted of a felony involving moral turpitude under federal or state law may not vote in a federal, state or municipal election from the date of the conviction through the date of unconditional discharge. AS 15.05.030
Upon presenting proof that the person is unconditionally discharged from custody the person may register to vote [AS 15.07.135]. If you wish to participate in an election in Alaska after unconditional discharge of your sentence, contact your voting district’s regional officer .

[Elfdart]

I never thought Dungeonmaster McCain had a shot in the last election, but he could have at least gone down with his dignity intact if he had picked someone other than Caribou Barbie. Now he's going to be remembered (if he's remembered at all) as the old guy who put this stupid and insane woman ever so close to the Button.

[Count Chocula]

Wow. There's a lot of "fuck Palin" sentiment here...but guess what's NOT here? Convictions. Every one of the "ethics" complaints filed, which by the way cost little to file but much to defend, have led to NO determinations of guilt on Palin's part. Frankly, the number and frequency of filed complaints against Palin smells of an organized smear campaign.

If you really want to look for possible ethics violations, check out Rangel, Biden's son and brother, or Pelosi. Oh never mind about Biden, it was settled...with confidential terms of course. Double never mind...the examples I listed are all Democrats. I forgot they're immune.

[General Zod]

Wow. There's a lot of "fuck Palin" sentiment here...but guess what's NOT here? Convictions. Every one of the "ethics" complaints filed, which by the way cost little to file but much to defend, have led to NO determinations of guilt on Palin's part. Frankly, the number and frequency of filed complaints against Palin smells of an organized smear campaign.

The ORIGINAL charges were dismissed, but these NEW concerns are issues that Palin clearly brought upon herself. Then again you'd know that if you actually bothered reading the full article instead of the first paragraph and knee-jerking like usual.

If you really want to look for possible ethics violations, check out Rangel, Biden's son and brother, or Pelosi. Oh never mind about Biden, it was settled...with confidential terms of course. Double never mind...the examples I listed are all Democrats. I forgot they're immune.

You're so butthurt that Palin is having to deal with yet more ethics investigations that you feel a need to derail a thread with blatant red herrings? That's pretty hilarious.

[Knife]

What a bunch of bullshit. You can't excuse one persons behavior by pointing out the opposition has fucked up people too.

[General Zod]

What a bunch of bullshit. You can't excuse one persons behavior by pointing out the opposition has fucked up people too.

But isn't that the typical Republican MO? When you point out how badly their side fucks up they go "HAI GUIZ, THE DEMONRATS DO IT TOOOOOO!" even though their examples are usually hilariously false or blatantly exaggerated?

[Count Chocula]

What a bunch of bullshit. You can't excuse one persons behavior by pointing out the opposition has fucked up people too.

Bullshit and bullshit back. Zod's article, and attorney Daniel's opinion, are hardly a smoking gun. The investigating attorney, yes, has the opinion that under current law Palin's actions re the defense fund are against Alaska law, but he ALSO SAID that "he sympathizes with her issues, though, and that the state may need to look at changing some of its laws."

And I repeat that the entire series of "ethics" investigations smacks of a Democrat smear campaign:

At least 19 ethics complaints have been filed against Palin, most of them after she was named the running mate for Republican presidential candidate John McCain. Most of those have been dismissed, and Palin's office usually sends a news release with the announcement.

I challenge you to find another US politician of either party that has so many ethics complaints filed in so short a time. Go ahead. Look. I'll wait.

See, Knife, that's how debate works. Someone posts a topic, someone who disagrees counters with facts, someone who agrees with the poster counters back WITH FACTS, and so on. Try it...you'll like it.

[General Zod]

What a bunch of bullshit. You can't excuse one persons behavior by pointing out the opposition has fucked up people too.

Bullshit and bullshit back. Zod's article, and attorney Daniel's opinion, are hardly a smoking gun. The investigating attorney, yes, has the opinion that under current law Palin's actions re the defense fund are against Alaska law, but he ALSO SAID that "he sympathizes with her issues, though, and that the state may need to look at changing some of its laws."

What smoking gun you stupid cunt? You're the only one who's treating it as one.

I challenge you to find another US politician of either party that has so many ethics complaints filed in so short a time. Go ahead. Look. I'll wait.

Fuck off until you learn how to debate without making hilariously obvious red herrings. But here, I'll throw you a bone anyway; apparently you never heard of Kwame Kilpatrick before.

[KroLazuxy_87]

In announcing her resignation earlier this month, she cited the cost of battling ethics complaints filed by critics as one of the reasons she is quitting about two-thirds of the way through her four-year term.

Being a political figure, of course people are gonna be out to get you. Dealing with accusations(rather or not they have a firm basis) is just part of the job. You can't just quit because to many people don't like you.

[Count Chocula]

Fuck off until you learn how to debate without making hilariously obvious red herrings.

Where's the red herring? I probably should have limited my challenge to governors and members of Congress, IOW potential players on the national stage; my bad. Can you name ANY governor or ANY congressman in the last 50 years who has had as many complaints filed against them in less than a year as Sarah Palin has?

And no, I'd never heard of Mayor Kwame Kilpatric's antics. I grew up in northern Virginia, so I was treated to Mayor Marion Barry. Here's my favorite quote from him: "Bitch set me up." Follow the link, it's good for lots of laughs.

[General Zod]

Where's the red herring? I probably should have limited my challenge to governors and members of Congress, IOW potential players on the national stage; my bad. Can you name ANY governor or ANY congressman in the last 50 years who has had as many complaints filed against them in less than a year as Sarah Palin has?

Bringing up any other politicians because you're butthurt that Palin is being "picked on" again IS the red herring you fuckass. You also said politician, I gave you a politician. So concede the point or kindly go choke on my cock.

[Count Chocula]

Bringing up any other politicians because you're butthurt that Palin is being "picked on" again IS the red herring you fuckass. You also said politician, I gave you a politician. So concede the point or kindly go choke on my cock.

You assume I'm butthurt. Nope. Bringing up other politicians BTW of higher positions is not a red herring; it's a counterexample, or in words of one or two syllables shows that some Dems have more severe ethics issues and Palin's suits are well above the norm. Is that simple enough for you?

Perhaps not, since nitpicking, "fuckass" and "choke on my cock" are the only counterarguments you can dredge up. Oh wait, those are just juvenile personal attacks. My mistake; pleeease forgive me. /sarcasm

You want a concession? How about a partial based on my first post and not the followup: you provided a fuckup mayor. OK. No, fuck OK...your example spanned 6 years, for suspected offenses including strippers at the mayor's residence (and the murder of one of those strippers a year later), infidelity, misappropriation of funds, perjury, misconduct and obstruction of justice. Ethics complaints against Palin have spanned about a year, for allegedly improperly allowing her likeness and approval to be used in her defense fund, unclaimed gifts, and...Troopergate. Hey, great example there Zod.

Repeating my second post: can you find ANY governor or congressman of ANY party (Dem, Repub, Green, Independent, hell Martian Liberation Front) who has had that many complaints filed in so short a time? I doubt it, but I'd welcome actual, you know, facts to the contrary.

[Flagg]

Listen you mouth breathing cunt, this thread is about Sarah Palin being an ethically bankrupt twat, not about what other politicians get up to. So yes, what you did is the very definition of a red herring.

[Darth Wong]

Bringing up any other politicians because you're butthurt that Palin is being "picked on" again IS the red herring you fuckass. You also said politician, I gave you a politician. So concede the point or kindly go choke on my cock.

You assume I'm butthurt. Nope. Bringing up other politicians BTW of higher positions is not a red herring; it's a counterexample, or in words of one or two syllables shows that some Dems have more severe ethics issues and Palin's suits are well above the norm. Is that simple enough for you?

Actually, it's called a "Tu Quoque Fallacy" and is a special case of the red herring. It is commonly used in political debates, which bear little or no resemblance to logical debates. You need to seriously upgrade your mentality.

The fact that you honestly think this is a valid method of argument is pretty damned sad. It means you've actually internalized all of that "political pundit" rhetorical bullshit that you've obviously been steeping your brain in.

[Count Chocula]

Listen you mouth breathing cunt, this thread is about Sarah Palin being an ethically bankrupt twat, not about what other politicians get up to. So yes, what you did is the very definition of a red herring.

What, you don't see "vendetta" with your cunts for eyes? Look at the number of complaints. Look at the number of convictions (that's NONE). THERE'S NO PROOF. NO CONVICTION. This latest article is an opinion which, so far, has not led to any negative action against Palin. Just like the other 16-17 complaints. If it gets traction and she really abused her office, well then so be it.

And no it's not a red herring. The ethics issues of other politicians (I used congress for my examples) provides a direct, relevant comparison and perspective to the most recent complaint against Palin, and to the sheer number of complaints against her since 2008. So fuck off.

EDIT: DW, I just read your post but will place mine as is. I'm attempting to make the point that the treatment Palin's getting is disproportionate to the actual alleged offenses, and the only way I can see to do that is to compare her current situation to other recent political scandals.

[General Zod]

You assume I'm butthurt. Nope. Bringing up other politicians BTW of higher positions is not a red herring; it's a counterexample, or in words of one or two syllables shows that some Dems have more severe ethics issues and Palin's suits are well above the norm. Is that simple enough for you?

The moment someone brings up a thread against Sarah Palin you screech like a retarded clown and point fingers saying "BUT THE DEMOCRATS DO IT TOOOOO!11!1" in order to distract attention from the whole fucking point of the thread so yes, you ARE butthurt and your bullshit about other politicians is a red herring in order to change the topic.

Perhaps not, since nitpicking, "fuckass" and "choke on my cock" are the only counterarguments you can dredge up. Oh wait, those are just juvenile personal attacks. My mistake; pleeease forgive me. /sarcasm

whine whine piss moan. Get over yourself, please.

You want a concession? How about a partial based on my first post and not the followup: you provided a fuckup mayor. OK. No, fuck OK...your example spanned 6 years, for suspected offenses including strippers at the mayor's residence (and the murder of one of those strippers a year later), infidelity, misappropriation of funds, perjury, misconduct and obstruction of justice. Ethics complaints against Palin have spanned about a year, for allegedly improperly allowing her likeness and approval to be used in her defense fund, unclaimed gifts, and...Troopergate. Hey, great example there Zod.

WAAHHHH, THE MEDIA'S BEING MEAN TO PALIN! WAHHHHH!

Repeating my second post: can you find ANY governor or congressman of ANY party (Dem, Repub, Green, Independent, hell Martian Liberation Front) who has had that many complaints filed in so short a time? I doubt it, but I'd welcome actual, you know, facts to the contrary.

Why the fuck do I need to provide anything anyway? Oh wait, because you want to derail the thread onto a completely different topic.

[Flagg]

Listen you mouth breathing cunt, this thread is about Sarah Palin being an ethically bankrupt twat, not about what other politicians get up to. So yes, what you did is the very definition of a red herring.

What, you don't see "vendetta" with your cunts for eyes? Look at the number of complaints. Look at the number of convictions (that's NONE). THERE'S NO PROOF. NO CONVICTION. This latest article is an opinion which, so far, has not led to any negative action against Palin. Just like the other 16-17 complaints. If it gets traction and she really abused her office, well then so be it.

You cry vendetta when an equally valid assumption could be made that she's just that ethically bankrupt.

And no it's not a red herring. The ethics issues of other politicians (I used congress for my examples) provides a direct, relevant comparison and perspective to the most recent complaint against Palin, and to the sheer number of complaints against her since 2008. So fuck off.

Per Merriam-Webster

Main Entry:
red herring
Function:
noun
Date:
15th century

1: a herring cured by salting and slow smoking to a dark brown color

2 [from the practice of drawing a red herring across a trail to confuse hunting dogs] : something that distracts attention from the real issue

Put up or shut up, dicksneeze.

[Darth Wong]

EDIT: DW, I just read your post but will place mine as is. I'm attempting to make the point that the treatment Palin's getting is disproportionate to the actual alleged offenses,

Which is yet another red-herring. Particularly since there is no particular scale or even consistency to how much coverage any particular scandal gets. Why didn't torture become a bigger scandal than it did? Why did Bill Clinton's blowjob become such a big scandal? Why didn't George W. Bush's close ties to Kenneth Lay become more of a scandal? Why didn't Cheney's massive diversion of federal funds to his old friends at Halliburton ever become a real scandal instead of fodder for late-night comedy? Ideology, or just whatever the media thinks will get ratings?

The idea that there is a "correct" proportional response to a scandal and that any deviation from this response indicates some kind of media smear campaign is such incredible bullshit that only a complete idiot could possibly buy into it. But of course, you have obviously been steeping your brain in right-wing Kool-Aid. That's why you can't see what an incredible non sequitur this is, in addition to being a red-herring from the start.

and the only way I can see to do that is to compare her current situation to other recent political scandals.

Obviously, you have never heard of the concept of a controlled comparison.

Once more: you are engaging in a classic red-herring fallacy. Worse yet, you are judging the accusations against her by assuming that they must be exaggerated because she couldn't possibly have been legitimately guilty of them: a truly bizarre form of logic, but clearly logic is not your strong suit.

[Count Chocula]

Obviously, you have never heard of the concept of a controlled comparison.

Yes I have, actually, when comparing two substances (i.e. drug and placebo). However, as I am unsure that it applies in the political arena, I concede my comparison of Palin's latest complaint to other politicians' ethical issues as invalid.

To the point, then: This latest complaint, based on the record of prior complaints against Palin, has a 1 in 18 chance of being upheld, which is, in my opinion, unlikely, and is more likely to prove to be simply another nuisance suit without significant merit.

[Ziggy Stardust]

And I repeat that the entire series of "ethics" investigations smacks of a Democrat smear campaign

Except, you dishonest little prick, 12 of the 19 ethics complaints were filed by ALASKA REPUBLICANS (hell, one of them Palin filed HERSELF as a "self disclosure" after Troopergate). Of the other 7, 4 were filed by private citizens (at least three of them self-identifying Republicans), 1 by an independent political activist, and 1 by a Democratic blogger. And there was one filed under a fake name. And, in fact, contrary to your claims, three of the complaints were filed in August 2008, BEFORE HER NOMINATION AS VP.

Interestingly, the only source out there besides Chocula attributing this to a Democrat smear campaign is Palin's attorney Thomas Van Flein, in an interview on Fox News.

VAN SUSTEREN: Thomas, are these individuals who are filing it, or do you think this is part of some concerted effort by some group? What's the origin of these 15 that you have already spoken about?

VAN FLEIN: Some are individual efforts. But we know that there is a group of left-wing associates who have publicly stated that this is a concerted action to undermine the administration. They blog about it and rejoice in it, essentially.

And so it is a concerted effort and it is not accidental or coincidental.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have you any reason to believe that it is originating outside of Alaska?

VAN FLEIN: Well, it's out of the playbook, it's out of a left-wing playbook to attack your opponent and attack them personally, use the system against them, bog them down with things like ethics complaints, make them spend their own money, give them bad headlines. It's a standard left-wing tactic.

VAN SUSTEREN: But you have no proof that it is coming from outside the state. You are simply saying that it's done by people who are her political opponents, right? You have no evidence that, for instance, is the Democrats in the lower 48 doing it?

VAN FLEIN: Well, there were some complaints that were filed under pseudonyms that we believe came from down in the lower 48, and that one was dismissed as well. So there is some evidence that it is coming from down in the lower 48.

What we do know is there was a close association. Like, one of the persons who filed the complaint was the official Democratic Party blogger for the convention for President Obama last fall. And she has been part of this.

So there is a connection to the Democratic Party in the lower 48.

VAN SUSTEREN: Thomas, thank you.

[Darth Wong]

Of course, if you accuse Chocula of being a FOXNews sheep, he'll deny it.

[Knife]

He conceded, so I won't belabor the point. However, his defense of Palin seems to underscore Palin's own insecurities. She really can't handle either criticism nor investigation inherent in politics. She really wasn't ready for prime time, either by being up to date on actual issues nor have her ego in check enough to whether political discourse.

[Darth Wong]

Really, think of the incredible gall it takes for Republicans to accuse Democrats of running smear campaigns, when a Democratic president faced impeachment for a blowjob while his Republican successor never faced impeachment for violating the Geneva Convention, instigating a war on false pretenses, instituting an ideological purge of the Justice Department, having his VP ignore subpoenas, etc.

Republicans are a classic example of the modern dickless schoolyard pseudo-bully, who hits kids when the teacher isn't looking, and then runs to the teacher if anyone retaliates.