Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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NYT
NYT wrote:Obama Selects Evangelist for Invocation

By KATHARINE Q. SEELYE
Published: December 17, 2008

Barack Obama has selected the Rev. Rick Warren, the evangelical pastor and author of “The Purpose Driven Life,” to deliver the invocation at his inauguration, a role that positions Mr. Warren to succeed Billy Graham as the nation’s pre-eminent minister and reflects the generational changes in the evangelical Christian movement.

In a departure from past inaugurations, which usually feature operatic soloists, Aretha Franklin will perform. A quartet that includes Itzhak Perlman and Yo-Yo Ma will play a piece composed for the inauguration by John Williams, whose “Patriot” resounded during Mr. Obama’s election night celebration in Grant Park in Chicago.

Mr. Obama’s inauguration program, for Jan. 20, was announced Wednesday by the Joint Congressional Committee on Inaugural Celebrations.

Inauguration programs follow a traditional outline but also allow a president-elect to put his stamp on the proceedings and set the tone for his administration.

The choice of Mr. Warren, pastor of a megachurch in Orange County, Calif., is an olive branch to conservative Christian evangelicals. Mr. Warren is an outspoken opponent of abortion and same-sex marriage — litmus-test issues for Christian conservatives. In fact, his selection set off a round of criticism by gay rights groups angered by his support for California’s ban on same-sex marriages.

But Mr. Warren has also been one of the most prominent evangelical leaders calling for Christians to expand their agenda and confront global problems like poverty, AIDS, climate change and genocide in Darfur.

Mr. Warren flaunted his clout this year when he managed to draw both John McCain and Barack Obama to his Saddleback Church for a forum in which he interviewed them on stage about faith issues. He has sometimes angered the older generation of conservative evangelical leaders aligned with the Republican Party, as when he invited Mr. Obama to speak about AIDS at an earlier event at his church.

Following Mr. Warren will be Ms. Franklin, who grew up singing gospel music before turning to soul and pop. She sang at Bill Clinton’s inauguration concert in 1993 (“Someday We’ll All Be Free” and “Respect”) but not at the inauguration ceremony itself.

Next, Vice President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. will be sworn in by Justice John Paul Stevens.

Then the new work by Mr. Williams will be played by a classical devotee’s fantasy quartet: Mr. Perlman on violin, Mr. Ma on cello, Gabriela Montero on piano and Anthony McGill on clarinet.

Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. will administer the oath of office to Mr. Obama, who will then deliver his inaugural address.

A poetry reading will follow by Elizabeth Alexander, who teaches African-American studies at Yale and is only the fourth poet to read at an inauguration. (The others were Robert Frost in 1961, Maya Angelou in 1993, and Miller Williams in 1997.)

Mr. Obama has asked the Rev. Dr. Joseph E. Lowery, co-founder with the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, to deliver the benediction.

The ceremony will close with the Sea Chanters of the United States Navy Band singing the National Anthem.
My wife and I just had an interesting discussion about whether Warren is a fundamentalist. He's an evangelical, sure -- he passes the "abortion-gay marriage" litmus test. But the four criteria for fundamentalism (Ammerman) is: evangelicalism, Biblical inerrancy, premillennialism, and separatism. Warren checks off the first three, but he's not really separatist; he's willing to work with people who disagree with him, and he's willing to reach out and work with the more liberal elements of Christianity. So just how hardcore militant is he?

It's pretty awesome being married to a woman whose field of study is 20th century American religious history. :D
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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Surlethe wrote:My wife and I just had an interesting discussion about whether Warren is a fundamentalist. He's an evangelical, sure -- he passes the "abortion-gay marriage" litmus test.
And I'm already hearing homosexuals elsewhere disown Obama because of this; "Clinton 2" I've heard him called. He takes their money and efforts to get elected, and promptly slaps them in the face. With justification; I can imagine the national reaction if he chose a guy who preached against interracial marriage. It's just that anti-gay bigotry is still largely acceptable - nearly mandatory for a politician - in America.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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He describes himself as "The only difference between me and James Dobson is tone". Guy is a grade A douchebag.


Well done Obama. Well done. :roll: Here's to the new boss, same as the old boss...
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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Ender wrote:He describes himself as "The only difference between me and James Dobson is tone". Guy is a grade A douchebag.


Well done Obama. Well done. :roll: Here's to the new boss, same as the old boss...
Yeah - Obama is the black George W. Bush. Completely identical... :roll:
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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SancheztheWhaler wrote:
Yeah - Obama is the black George W. Bush. Completely identical... :roll:

There are a lot of similarities. I mean, Dick Cheney thinks he has picked a pretty good National Security team, which should tell you what our defense policy is going to resemble.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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SancheztheWhaler wrote:
Ender wrote:He describes himself as "The only difference between me and James Dobson is tone". Guy is a grade A douchebag.


Well done Obama. Well done. :roll: Here's to the new boss, same as the old boss...
Yeah - Obama is the black George W. Bush. Completely identical... :roll:
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

Post by Illuminatus Primus »

Everyone here just saw in Obama what they wanted to see, and discount just how large the mass of easily-led sheep most people are. A huge number of Democrats by now have swallowed Reaganite economics, philosophy of government, social moralism, and foreign policy interventionism and muscular military through enormous defense expenditures.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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Democrats didn't need Ronald Reagan to bullshit about missile gap to get elected or get the US involved in Vietnam and Korea.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

Post by Coyote »

Oh, noes! An obnoxious preacher has been asked to handle the inauguration. Surely it is the end of civilisation as we know it. The idea that this could be a "sop" or "lip service" is out of the question-- surely this means he will be instrumental in key policy decisions.

Wait and see. There's already talk that Obama will revise DADT, for example. If he is going to tackle things like gay rights in the form of DADT, he's going to have to also be seen mending fences with the hard-core Christians. Remember, they are a big, loud, obnoxious voting bloc and they can throw future elections. The Democrats do not have a filibuster-proof majority so the cards still have to be played carefully.

Having this guy speak at the inauguration is small fucking potatoes. :roll:
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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Coyote wrote:Oh, noes! An obnoxious preacher has been asked to handle the inauguration. Surely it is the end of civilisation as we know it. The idea that this could be a "sop" or "lip service" is out of the question-- surely this means he will be instrumental in key policy decisions.

Wait and see. There's already talk that Obama will revise DADT, for example. If he is going to tackle things like gay rights in the form of DADT, he's going to have to also be seen mending fences with the hard-core Christians. Remember, they are a big, loud, obnoxious voting bloc and they can throw future elections. The Democrats do not have a filibuster-proof majority so the cards still have to be played carefully.

Having this guy speak at the inauguration is small fucking potatoes. :roll:
Look at it from the gay community's perspective. What do you think the reaction from people would have been if Bush had invited an Imperial Wizard of the KKK to speak at his inauguration in 2004?
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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General Zod wrote:Look at it from the gay community's perspective. What do you think the reaction from people would have been if Bush had invited an Imperial Wizard of the KKK to speak at his inauguration in 2004?
It's a definite slap in the face to the gay community, I certainly wouldn't dispute that. Especially coming so close on the heels of the Prop-8 debacle. But I'm not sure that the comparison to a KKK Grand Wizard is entirely appropriate; the KKK vote in the country is small and most of their goal and activities are actively shunned; many are even illegal.

The Christian Fundy base, however, is loud, very active, quite legal (if dumb) and can sabotage future political works.

I seriously think this throwing a bone to the Religious Right, and little else.
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In Libertarianism, there is no Government, so the Bosses are free to exploit the Workers.
In Communism, there is no Government, so the Workers are free to exploit the Bosses.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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Coyote wrote:Oh, noes! An obnoxious preacher has been asked to handle the inauguration. Surely it is the end of civilisation as we know it. The idea that this could be a "sop" or "lip service" is out of the question-- surely this means he will be instrumental in key policy decisions.

Wait and see. There's already talk that Obama will revise DADT, for example. If he is going to tackle things like gay rights in the form of DADT, he's going to have to also be seen mending fences with the hard-core Christians. Remember, they are a big, loud, obnoxious voting bloc and they can throw future elections. The Democrats do not have a filibuster-proof majority so the cards still have to be played carefully.

Having this guy speak at the inauguration is small fucking potatoes. :roll:
I agree. This can very well be Obama just giving lip service to the religious right. Yes, it's pretty awful that trying to "unite" the country means inviting bigots to speak at Obama inauguration. But this means little to what public policy the administration will be pursuing. That said, I have no illusions as to what this administration will and can accomplish for the LGBT community. Obama was quite detached from the Prop 8 fight and this is simply just the political reality. I expect every state to be on their own. If they're lucky, they'll get small tidbits of help from the administration when it isn't too politically costly.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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I like how this is such a small issue, yet as soon as it crops up, everyone starts calling Obama Bush II and ranting about how he just used us to get elected and is going to fuck with us and the country.

Yeahno.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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SancheztheWhaler wrote: Yeah - Obama is the black George W. Bush. Completely identical... :roll:
Fuck off, this is exactly the same sort of call Bush would have made. Take off your ideological blinders and call a screw up a screw up when it happens. Or justify how Rick Warren is not the kind of religious fascist he brags about being.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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I'm cautiously willing to let this go as an attempt to get the Jesus freak right to play nice, but I still don't think it's a good call. Those kind of crazies should be politically ignored and left to die on the vine, not humored. It's not like it can't be done, either.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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Ender wrote:
SancheztheWhaler wrote: Yeah - Obama is the black George W. Bush. Completely identical... :roll:
Fuck off, this is exactly the same sort of call Bush would have made. Take off your ideological blinders and call a screw up a screw up when it happens. Or justify how Rick Warren is not the kind of religious fascist he brags about being.

Obama is considering eliminating DADT, Bush kept in in place
Obama is pro-choice, Bush is pro-life
Obama wants to get out of Iraq, Bush got us into that mess
Obama wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts, Bush put those tax cuts into place

Is there an episode of winter-related stupidity going around? How in the fuck is Barack Obama the same as Bush - that is what you meant by "new boss, same as the old boss," isn't it? Or are we supposed to infer specificity out of your vague, poorly thought out post? You didn't call it a screw up in the post I referred to douchebag.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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Coyote wrote: It's a definite slap in the face to the gay community, I certainly wouldn't dispute that. Especially coming so close on the heels of the Prop-8 debacle. But I'm not sure that the comparison to a KKK Grand Wizard is entirely appropriate; the KKK vote in the country is small and most of their goal and activities are actively shunned; many are even illegal.

The Christian Fundy base, however, is loud, very active, quite legal (if dumb) and can sabotage future political works.
As far as I see it, the only practical difference between the two is that racism isn't as popular as it used to be, while it's still socially acceptable to bash gays. Definitely not one of the best choices of people he could have invited to speak at the inauguration.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

I don't think it's a slap in the face to gay people, because apparently the alternative was Billy Graham, and I'd prefer Warren over that slick hatemonger who has managed to pass himself off as the epitome of a good American for far to long.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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SancheztheWhaler wrote:
Ender wrote:
SancheztheWhaler wrote: Yeah - Obama is the black George W. Bush. Completely identical... :roll:
Fuck off, this is exactly the same sort of call Bush would have made. Take off your ideological blinders and call a screw up a screw up when it happens. Or justify how Rick Warren is not the kind of religious fascist he brags about being.

Obama is considering eliminating DADT, Bush kept in in place
Obama is pro-choice, Bush is pro-life
Obama wants to get out of Iraq, Bush got us into that mess
Obama wants to repeal the Bush tax cuts, Bush put those tax cuts into place

Is there an episode of winter-related stupidity going around? How in the fuck is Barack Obama the same as Bush - that is what you meant by "new boss, same as the old boss," isn't it? Or are we supposed to infer specificity out of your vague, poorly thought out post? You didn't call it a screw up in the post I referred to douchebag.
My god, you aren't even functionally retarded are you? You are just a straight up short bus kid.. Yes, I can see how my adding a roll eyes smiley after saying the choice was well made was unclear as to the fact that I am opposed to catering to Warren.

And not one bit of your pathetic attempt to counter my point is relevant. How is catering to Warren not exactly what Bush would have done, or how is Warren different from Falwell, Dobson, et al to whom he openly compares himself?
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

Post by The Romulan Republic »

Ender wrote:
SancheztheWhaler wrote: Yeah - Obama is the black George W. Bush. Completely identical... :roll:
Fuck off, this is exactly the same sort of call Bush would have made. Take off your ideological blinders and call a screw up a screw up when it happens. Or justify how Rick Warren is not the kind of religious fascist he brags about being.
No, Bush would probably have had someone worse do it. In any case, just how the fuck does making a token gesture to the religious right make Obama the same as Bush? Or does having Rick Warren speak at your innauguration suddenly invalidate all your previous policies and automatically make you an evangellical neo-con? :roll:

Frankly I'm more disturbed at the pressence of any religious cerimony at the innauguration, especially given Obama's background in Constitutional Law. But this hardly invalidates all the miriad of ways Obama is different from Bush.

Ever since Obama came, it seems that people are just looking for an excuse to jump on Obama and say "see, he's just like all the others." Yet nowhere in his campaing did he sign a pledge swearing that all aspects of American politics would instantaneously be changed.

At the end of the day, the evangelical Christian Right is still a powerful political force, and their ideas hold some appeal to moderate Christians as well. Short of purging the Christian Right from America with blood and fire (as only a madman would attempt), Obama has two choices: he can ignore them, have them do everything they can to block his agenda during a critical time of crisis, and possibly get booted out as a result in four years, or he can work with them. And working with them means he will at least have to throw them a symbollic gesture now and then. Or he can ignore the political, accomplish little, watch the country fall apart, and get replaced by Palin, Romney, or Huckabee in four years. You think Obama's no friend of gay rights, how do you think the movement will fair under one of those guys? And for that matter, did it occure to you that Obama might be capable of respecting and working with those he does not entirely agree with, that he might actually believe in doing so as a political idea?

Incidentally, I recall that according to CNN, the man doing the benediction is a supporter of gay marriage (I'll try to find a source to link to). If this is true, will you then recant your previous statements and embrace Obama as a supporter of gay rights? :roll: Or will you at least refrain from condemming the man for a single cerimonial appointment? Is it really support for gay rights that you want? Or is it complete ideological purity and the shunning of all who disagree with you?

Fuck, the man isn't even President yet. Why not hold off judgement untill he's acutally had time to pursue more of his policies, rather than condeming him for one cerimonial appointment? You need to wake up and realize this is Politics we're playing, not Total War. I may not agree with Obama's actions in this case, but I can see the reasons, and I am not prepaired to condemn the man on this one action, or his Presidency before it has officially begun.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

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Everyone's acting as though this is THE END! What the fuck? Yes it's a stupid decision by the transition to team to have Warren give the invocation. For Christ's sake there shouldn't even BE an invocation at a Presidential inauguration. But he's there. So be it. The benediction is being given by a preacher who is a loud advocate of gay rights.

People are saying that this is giving Warren an international platform. Huh? He's saying a prayer and getting off the stage, not making a policy speech. Most people won't even know who he is.

Were there cries of discontent when Obama went to that hackneyed "forum" at the Saddleback church with McCain? That's not a facetious question I really don't know.

This isn't the end of the world, nor is it a sign that Obama is going to sell out the GLBT community. It's a stupid symbolic bone to the religious right. Nothing more should be read into it than that.

Here is Obama's statement on the matter via TPM
I am fierce advocate for equality for gay and -- well, let me start by talking about my own views. I think it is no secret that I am a fierce advocate for equality for gay and lesbian Americans. It is something I have been consistent on and something I intend to continue to be consistent on during my presidency.

What I've also said is that it is important for America to come together even though we may have disagreements on certain social issues.

And I would note that a couple of years ago I was invited to Rick Warren's church to speak, despite his awareness that I held views entirely contrary to his when it came to gay and lesbian rights, when it came to issues like abortion.

Nevertheless, I had an opportunity to speak, and that dialogue, I think, is a part of what my campaign's been all about, that we're never going to agree on every single issue. What we have to do is create an atmosphere where we can disagree without being disagreeable, and then focus on those things that we hold in common as Americans. So Rick Warren has been invited to speak, Dr. Joseph Lowery -- who has deeply contrasting views to Rick Warren about a whole host of issues -- is also speaking
And the transition's official talking points via Daily Kos
• This will be the most open, accessible, and inclusive Inauguration in American history.

• In keeping with the spirit of unity and common purpose this Inauguration will reflect, the President-elect and Vice President-elect have chosen some of the world's most gifted artists and people with broad appeal to participate in the inaugural ceremonies.

• Pastor Rick Warren has a long history of activism on behalf of the disadvantaged and the downtrodden. He's devoted his life to performing good works for the poor and leads the evangelical movement in addressing the global HIV/AIDS crisis. In fact, the President-elect recently addressed Rick Warren's Saddleback Civil Forum on Global Health to salute Warren's leadership in the struggle against HIV/AIDS and pledge his support to the effort in the years ahead.

• The President-elect disagrees with Pastor Warren on issues that affect the LGBT community. They disagree on other issues as well. But what's important is that they agree on many issues vital to the pursuit of social justice, including poverty relief and moving toward a sustainable planet; and they share a commitment to renewing America's promise by expanding opportunity at home and restoring our moral leadership abroad.

• As he's said again and again, the President-elect is committed to bringing together all sides of the faith discussion in search of common ground. That's the only way we'll be able to unite this country with the resolve and common purpose necessary to solve the challenges we face.

• The Inauguration will also involve Reverend Joseph Lowery, who will be delivering the official benediction at the Inauguration. Reverend Lowery is a giant of the civil rights movement who boasts a proudly progressive record on LGBT issues. He has been a leader in the struggle for civil rights for all Americans, gay or straight.

• And for the very first time, there will be a group representing the interests of LGBT Americans participating in the Inaugural Parade.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

Post by chitoryu12 »

It just seems more like the people crying foul over Obama having Warren at inauguration are just worried they may actually have a president who will, you know, WORK with the people he disagrees with instead of doing as some people seem to want to do and jeering them from the soapbox. If Obama can get the evangelical Christians on his side, that's more votes for him in 2012 if and when he decides to run again. Christ, no pun intended, we're not supporting zombie Andrew Johnson. Obama's not going to all of a sudden start condemning gays and destroying civil rights.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

Post by The Romulan Republic »

chitoryu12 wrote:It just seems more like the people crying foul over Obama having Warren at inauguration are just worried they may actually have a president who will, you know, WORK with the people he disagrees with instead of doing as some people seem to want to do and jeering them from the soapbox. If Obama can get the evangelical Christians on his side, that's more votes for him in 2012 if and when he decides to run again. Christ, no pun intended, we're not supporting zombie Andrew Johnson. Obama's not going to all of a sudden start condemning gays and destroying civil rights.
Personally I suspect its an ugly combination of cynics looking for an excuse to hold on to the "he's just a politician, and all politicians are the same" mantra, Obama fans who built up unrealistic expectations, and people still bitter over the last eight years who want a President who treats the other side like Bush and the neo-cons did, except "he's our guy!"
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

Post by Lord of the Abyss »

chitoryu12 wrote:It just seems more like the people crying foul over Obama having Warren at inauguration are just worried they may actually have a president who will, you know, WORK with the people he disagrees with instead of doing as some people seem to want to do and jeering them from the soapbox. If Obama can get the evangelical Christians on his side, that's more votes for him in 2012 if and when he decides to run again.
So ? If he gets more votes by caving in to bigots and fanatics, then how is he any different than the Republicans who have been doing the same thing for decades ? You can't "work with" people who aren't interested in compromise. I remember what happened right after 9-11; the Democrats all went "Let's be bipartisan and compromise for the good of the country", and the Republicans ran right over them.

If he gets the Republicans to do anything other than oppose him at every turn, it'll be by giving them everything they demand, minority status or not. And even then they'll probably take it and and go against him anyway.

And as for the Left being willing to accuse him of caving in to the Republicans before he's taken office; after so many years of watching the Democrats do just that, it's what I've come to expect from them. I was one of the few who had no good expectations from Obama, despite voting for him, because caving in is exactly what I expect from him. He's a Democrat. And I'm damned tired of voting for Democrats and watching them act like Republicans. So when he starts following the same old pattern, it's a reasonable worry that he'll keep on doing so.
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Re: Rick Warren to Speak at Inauguration

Post by Pint0 Xtreme »

chitoryu12 wrote:It just seems more like the people crying foul over Obama having Warren at inauguration are just worried they may actually have a president who will, you know, WORK with the people he disagrees with instead of doing as some people seem to want to do and jeering them from the soapbox. If Obama can get the evangelical Christians on his side, that's more votes for him in 2012 if and when he decides to run again. Christ, no pun intended, we're not supporting zombie Andrew Johnson. Obama's not going to all of a sudden start condemning gays and destroying civil rights.
In this political atmosphere, working with the other side means dicking the LGBT community over by not fulfilling promises. Do you think the religious right is going to even budge one inch on DOMA? Not a chance in hell. At best, Obama will be able to repeal DOMA, enact ENDA and institute the state-sanctioned segregation travesty known as civil unions. I'm not saying that these developments are worse than no developments. But when you've been socially and legally discriminated all your life, it's disappointing as fuck when the best chance you have at attain legal equality will only get you legal quasi-equality.
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