Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

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Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Durandal »

The Washington Post wrote:GOP Looks to Louisiana's Governor
Jindal May Prove To be Republicans' Version of Obama
By Michael Leahy
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 30, 2008; A02

CEDAR RAPIDS, Iowa -- Last weekend, 18 days after Barack Obama decisively defeated their candidate for president, a mostly Republican crowd of self-described conservatives received their first introduction to someone many prominent members of the GOP think could be the party's own version of Obama.

Like the president-elect, Gov. Bobby Jindal of Louisiana is young (37), accomplished (a Rhodes scholar) and, as the son of Indian immigrants, someone familiar with breaking racial and cultural barriers. He came to Iowa to deliver a pair of speeches, and his mere presence ignited talk that the 2012 presidential campaign has begun here, if coyly. Already, a fierce fight is looming between him and other Republicans -- former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, who arrived in Iowa a couple of days before him, and Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, who is said to be coming at some point -- for the hearts of social conservatives.

"The Republicans really have no choice except to look at some people more youthful if they want to have a better chance of winning," said Betty E. Johnson, an independent and the wife of a Cedar Rapids pastor, who voted for George W. Bush in 2000 and 2004 but who went for Obama over 72-year-old John McCain. "I liked Obama's energy and hope. I don't know, but maybe a younger person would give Republicans a feeling of more energy, openness."

Jindal insists he is ignoring all the speculation. In Cedar Rapids, at a breakfast event devoted to addressing this beleaguered city's efforts to rebound from its disastrous flood last summer, he avoided any reference to 2012, staying focused on explaining Louisiana's methods for coping with hurricane floods in emergencies on his watch.

Meanwhile, others around the country were talking him up. No less an aspiring kingmaker than Steve Schmidt, the chief strategist of McCain's failed presidential bid, sees Jindal as the Republican Party's destiny. "The question is not whether he'll be president, but when he'll be president, because he will be elected someday." The anti-tax crusader Grover Norquist believes, too, that Jindal is a certainty to occupy the White House, and conservative talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh has described him as "the next Ronald Reagan."

Jindal is, above all else, a political meteor, sharing Obama's precocious skills for reaching the firmament in a hurry. It was just four years ago, after losing a gubernatorial election, that he won election to Congress, and only this year that he became Louisiana's governor, the first nonwhite to hold the office since Reconstruction. And now, 10 months into his first term, the talk of a presidential bid is getting louder among his boosters.

Youth, Norquist notes, has never been at a greater premium for Republicans in search of a new path. And the generally positive reaction to Jindal's handling of Louisiana's mass evacuation in August before Hurricane Gustav, and his response in the storm's aftermath, bolstered the image of the new governor's vigor.

"If anything, McCain's candidacy suggests that age is not always a positive -- and sometimes is a negative," Norquist says. "As Republicans, you have a real problem now with younger voters and immigrants. If you were going to central casting for a candidate to deal with all that, who do you have? Jindal. He is young, and he looks young. . . . He's a great communicator. And his record is that he's sharp and quick with policy."

Jindal supporters regularly evoke the Reagan parallel, fueled by a confidence that their hero's brand of social and fiscal conservatism, coupled with his sunny folksiness on the stump, can rekindle the Reagan flame. But all the comparisons end there. In 1981, Reagan entered the presidency at age 69, in the model of a leader the party traditionally favored then, older and seasoned. Just an elementary school kid when Reagan stepped into the Oval Office, Jindal is boyish-looking and six years younger than John F. Kennedy was when he became the nation's youngest elected president.

Jindal is his own invention, in the mold of an Obama. Born in Louisiana as Piyush Jindal to highly educated immigrants from India, he decided as a young child to nickname himself "Bobby," after his favorite character on the TV show "The Brady Bunch." Raised as a Hindu, he converted to Catholicism while in college and later wrote a lengthy, intimate story that provided a window on his religious evolution, in a manner that fairly calls to mind Obama's books about his own grappling with issues of self-identity. Success at Brown University and later at Oxford University during his Rhodes years led to high-profile attention in the power corridors of Louisiana and Washington.

The Louisiana governor at the time, Murphy J. "Mike" Foster Jr., turned to a 25-year-old Jindal to shore up Louisiana's Medicaid program, which had fallen badly into debt. By the time Jindal finished, he had shut down some state hospitals and had the program running a surplus. "He had to close a hospital in my district, but he didn't hesitate doing what he had to do," remembers former Louisiana state senator Tony Perkins, now the leader of the Family Research Council. "He always knows what he wants to get done."

The record is still evolving, like the rest of him. But social conservatives like what they have heard about the public and private Jindal: his steadfast opposition to abortion without exceptions; his disapproval of embryonic stem cell research; his and his wife Supriya's decision in 1997 to enter into a Louisiana covenant marriage that prohibits no-fault divorce in the state; and his decision in June to sign into law the Louisiana Science Education Act, a bill heartily supported by creationists that permits public school teachers to educate students about both the theory of "scientific design" and criticisms of Darwinian evolutionary concepts.

"Y'all are great to come," Jindal said to a pack of robust, gray-haired men who towered over his thin, 5-foot-8 frame. A couple of men dared to say they hoped he would be back campaigning in Iowa soon, to which he simply responded with a tight-lipped smile. Away from the rostrum, in response to a question, he declared he had only one political race on his mind. "I'm running for reelection to be governor of Louisiana in 2011," he said. "I'm not running for any other office."

You're in Iowa, someone said.

"I've spoken to the governor of Iowa and the Cedar Rapids group about what we can do with the flood victims because we've had to deal with these things, and they've been committed to helping our people when they were hurt by floods," he responded. "I want to be the best governor I can be for the people of Louisiana. Look, I think the American people are tired of campaigns and politics. We need to get behind our new president and our new Congress, support them, and stop being Democrats and Republicans. We need to work together to make sure our government is successful."

As he took the lectern for his speech, a former Iowa state representative, 72-year-old Rosemary Thomson and her husband, Jim, leaned forward and listened closely, a pair of lifelong Republicans who had delayed a trip to Illinois just to check out Jindal. They cautioned that they would not be making up their minds about him this morning, wanting a long look in the next few years at the entire Republican field. "But you read everything about him, and you know he's very smart," said Thomson, who had never heard him speak before. "It's an impressive résumé. Rhodes scholar. . . . He's done so much, and he's so young, a real up-and-comer."

Jindal's speech impressed them. While the crowd pushed away their eggs to study him, he alluded to the light dusting of snow to which Cedar Rapids had awakened. "Where I come from, we call that a blizzard," he said, eliciting chuckles from the Thomsons.

He segued quickly to the floods that had damaged their states and what he said he had learned from Louisiana's hurricanes. Government's swift reaction "matters more than red tape," he said. "Always side with the people. You can write an apology to the bureaucrats later."

This won him appreciative laughs, which grew into loud applause as he told about a rough-talking, no-nonsense Louisiana sheriff who had exhibited even less patience with bureaucrats. "You don't succeed by waiting for FEMA to tell you what to do," he declared. "You tell them what you need."

It was a speech devoted in large part to a skewering of federal bureaucracies, which was red meat for the breakfast attendees who showed their appreciation for his praise of the private sector and of faith-based organizations that he said had aided Louisiana. "If you ever get cynical, come down to Louisiana," he said, and then lauded those gathered for their "generous response" during his state's crises. "Know this: We will rebuild. Our people are strong and resilient. Thank y'all very much."

The Thomsons pressed forward to shake his hand and have their picture taken alongside him. "He's a great speaker," whispered Rosemary Thomson. "He's enthusiastic. He has a background of success . . . with those hurricanes, where others failed. But it's too early to support anyone. There's a long ways to go."

She walked back to Jindal, because something had just occurred to her. "So the campaign has begun, huh?" she affably said to him. "2012 has begun."

He smiled. "Oh, no, no, not yet," ” he replied. “No, not yet.”
Well if Steve Schmidt says he'll be president one day, it must be so. We all know that's a clock that's never off by a few minutes. :roll:

Anyway, that disgruntled Republicans are already pinning hopes on this guy is, I guess, unsurprising. They actually think they weren't conservative enough this time around. So they're going to go with either Sarah Palin (a bimbo) or Bobby Jindal, who's a complete fucking nut-case who actually thinks he exorcised an evil spirit from some girl in grad school. These two would be a dream ticket for late-night comedy.

In fact, some of the quotes in the article give me the image of some kid in high school who's not cool trying to be cool by dressing like someone who is cool. It's like they're saying, "Okay, let's just get a young-ish, brown guy next time around, and we're golden!" It's painful to watch. And of course, they're anointing the brown guy who converted to Christianity and got rid of his funny-sounding first name. He must be one of the good ones.

And beyond all that, I have very deep intellectual suspicions of anyone who is a Catholic without the excuse of years of brainwashing from birth. Why anyone would actually voluntarily convert to that particular brand of Christianity is completely lost on me. This guy actually looked at the teachings of Catholicism and said "This makes perfect sense."
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Elfdart »

The problem he has is that the GOP relies on the votes of unabashed white supremacist twice-born morons. These are the same people who wanted nothing to do with Mitt Romney because he is a Mormon, even though Romney comes straight out of Republican Central Casting.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

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Of all of them, I'd rather see Huckabee win out simply because he has a social conscience that the others lack.
Though its that same social conscience that makes the 'business wing' of the GOP hate his guts.

Mind you, he's still a whackjob, but he's a whackjob that has some sense of social responsibility and as far as I'm concerned the GOP's business wing can go take a long walk off of a short pier.

If you measure a man by the quality of his enemies, Huck's a better choice than either Palin or Jindal. :P
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Tanasinn »

The record is still evolving, like the rest of him. But social conservatives like what they have heard about the public and private Jindal: his steadfast opposition to abortion without exceptions; his disapproval of embryonic stem cell research; his and his wife Supriya's decision in 1997 to enter into a Louisiana covenant marriage that prohibits no-fault divorce in the state; and his decision in June to sign into law the Louisiana Science Education Act, a bill heartily supported by creationists that permits public school teachers to educate students about both the theory of "scientific design" and criticisms of Darwinian evolutionary concepts.
This is the guy they want to use to win over "young people?" Are they completely daft? I'd rather vote for a pile of shit than a Jesus freak social regressive.

Here's hoping that his political career goes down in flames and, hopefully, a hilarious gay sex scandal. The fewer of these morons vying for power in the Republican party, the better.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Patrick Degan »

And here's the GOP still crafting electoral politics like an advertising campaign.

They still don't get why Obama won. They never will. They think it's all about packaging.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Battlehymn Republic »

Repost.
The Huckabees: A group of "values voters" that are concerned about America losing its moral compass. However, they will eschew intolerance as antithetical to their principals. Traditional wedge issues will be softened by broadening their scope and appeal through redefining key terms. For example, "pro-life" will no longer refer to a simple opposition to a woman's right to choose an abortion, instead it will focus just as much on the quality of life as the quantity of life. To paraphrase an oft used line from Huckabee on the campaign trail "If we care more about unborn children than we do about children living in poverty or without healthcare or educational opportunity, then we have failed." I could also conceivably see a softening on same sex marriages as long as the term "marriage" was forever reserved for heterosexuals. This tribe will be for more populist on economic issues than the traditional GOP. Social programs will not automatically be seen as an evil. This tribe could appeal very much to religious Latinos, a group that is still very much up for grabs.

The Jindals: The Jindals are the more pragmatic offspring of the free market/ small government/anti-regulation conservatives typified by Grover Norquist. They will not talk about eliminating government, but rather about "right sizing" or even "smart sizing." They will advocate "smart regulation" over "no regulation." They will still be unapologetic supply siders in the macro sense, but they won't balk at the idea of progressive taxation or a little help for main street now and then.
Of course, both Jindal and/or Huckabee will have to move to the center as far as social conservatism goes. I'm sure Jindal will have to in order to become viable with independents. The interesting thing will be that if all that high-falutin' elitist education really made any difference in his policy. Despite the social conservatism, if he turns out to be a capable administrator and really does improve Louisiana, he will certainly prove to be a stronger opponent than Palin- kind of like a less slick, fake version of Romney. Anyways, we'll know starting with his healthcare reform of the state. People have characterized Jindal as a policy wonk; it remains to be seen if he really is one.

A gay sex scandal? His wife is pretty and they already have three kids. You can't expect sodomy to ruin every conservative politician in this country.

As for the race thing- I think tokenism definitely plays a part of it. However, are there really all that many young, bright-seeming Republicans around? Besides Jindal and Palin there's only a handful- Paul Ryan, Eric Cantor, Tim Pawlenty, Sanford, etc. There's also Florida Governor Crist, who is rumored to be gay. If the 2012 Republican primaries are between Palin, Jindal, Crist, and Condi Rice, the entertainment factor alone will be the best thing the Republican party will have done since the Progressive Era.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

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Durandal wrote: And beyond all that, I have very deep intellectual suspicions of anyone who is a Catholic without the excuse of years of brainwashing from birth. Why anyone would actually voluntarily convert to that particular brand of Christianity is completely lost on me. This guy actually looked at the teachings of Catholicism and said "This makes perfect sense."
The Catholicism of Rome and the Catholicism of your average western congregation are two very, very different things. From what I've gathered it seems to be that Catholic congregations are less dogmatic and more open than their Protestant equivalents. Might have something to do with celibate priests being more community-minded than preachers with their own families and priorities, or the fact that Catholicism hasn't (directly) fragmented into a billion trillion micro-sects that all distrust each other. Honestly, most Catholics seem to regard most of the dogma as padding, and there are a lot fewer fundamentalist Catholics for the crazies to play off of.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

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So the Republicans think that a clone of Dinesh D'Souza is something like Obama.
What makes Obama different from any Republican opponent is not simply his youth and education and other attractive qualities. It is that he has a personal philosophy that favours moderate beliefs that are enlightened.
If the Republicans are putting their hope in this guy, then they haven't learned their lesson (not surprising) - choosing an alternate version of Sarah Palin is not going to win them another Presidential election.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Battlehymn Republic »

Does anyone know what his actual administrative track record in LA has been like, both during and pre-Governor? If it doesn't look like he'll actually achieve anything then he'll be at an even worse position than Palin by 2012.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

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Durandal wrote:And beyond all that, I have very deep intellectual suspicions of anyone who is a Catholic without the excuse of years of brainwashing from birth. Why anyone would actually voluntarily convert to that particular brand of Christianity is completely lost on me. This guy actually looked at the teachings of Catholicism and said "This makes perfect sense."

Why? It's got the exact same idiocies (sacrifices himself to himself to appease himself) as every other brand of Christianity. The vast majority of other sects are equally against things like homosexuality and birth control... If you had to pick one, and it wasn't one of the ultra-liberal ones, I can't see why it wouldn't be Catholicism.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Fire Fly »

The only thing Bobby Jindal has that is unique from the rest of the Republican field is that he isn't white, otherwise this guy is a standard GOP candidate. I don't expect that he'll be able to win over the standard conservative base. Romney was the chosen one and yet he lost Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Florida out of the first big five (Wyoming doesn't count and Romney barely took Michigan). It would have to take a clusterfuck even greater than the one that put Obama into the White House to set the pieces correctly for Bobby Jindal. The 2008 election was a once in a life time event and it isn't likely to be repeated again for several decades. I don't think the Republicans have learned yet why they lost this election. Hint hint: it wasn't skin color.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

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open_sketchbook wrote:The Catholicism of Rome and the Catholicism of your average western congregation are two very, very different things. From what I've gathered it seems to be that Catholic congregations are less dogmatic and more open than their Protestant equivalents. Might have something to do with celibate priests being more community-minded than preachers with their own families and priorities, or the fact that Catholicism hasn't (directly) fragmented into a billion trillion micro-sects that all distrust each other. Honestly, most Catholics seem to regard most of the dogma as padding, and there are a lot fewer fundamentalist Catholics for the crazies to play off of.
Your experience has apparently been with cradle Catholics, who are Catholic more out of social inertia than anything else. People who have converted to Catholicism are generally the craziest, most fundamentalist Catholics out there because, as Durandal pointed out, they have to make an explicit decision to reject every other brand of Christianity and dive headlong into Catholicism. Check out, for example, Scott and Kimberly Hahn.
Durandal wrote:And beyond all that, I have very deep intellectual suspicions of anyone who is a Catholic without the excuse of years of brainwashing from birth. Why anyone would actually voluntarily convert to that particular brand of Christianity is completely lost on me. This guy actually looked at the teachings of Catholicism and said "This makes perfect sense."
There are several reasons a person might convert to Catholicism. The first is intellectual: if someone's decided to believe in Christianity and is denomination shopping, there are several arguments that point toward Catholicism as the "correct" brand of Christianity. The second is emotional: some people get pulled into the pomp and circumstance of Catholic rituals. I know that sounds crazy to someone born and raised in the Church, but some people just like rituals and tradition. The third is contextual: if someone's friends are all Catholic, he could simply be pulled into the Church by peer pressure.

The fourth reason is rather more cynical: perhaps Jindal decided to go into politics, and knew that Hinduism wouldn't get him very far, so he decided to convert to Christianity and picked Catholicism because of its consistently conservative stand on social issues. :wink:

I know these reasons aren't good ones; the first begs the question of Christianity's overall correctness, and the second and third are emotional, but there they are.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Drooling Iguana »

I think it would be great if someone like Jindal (or Palin) became the Republican nominee for President in 2012. Unless Obama completely fucks up he's almost certain to be elected for a second term (he's one of the most skilled politicians active today and his main drawback in 2008, his lack of experience, will no longer be a factor after four years of holding the highest office in the land) so it would be best if the doomed Republican candidate were someone who represented all the worst parts of the party, so that his/her loss might prompt some serious reform within the GOP.

The alternative is for them to run a more moderate candidate in 2012 that, like McCain, could be accused of being a RINO when he/she inevitable loses. This might simply make them think that their past candidates weren't conservative enough an run someone like Jindal or Palin in 2016, where they might actually have a chance of getting in and doing some serious damage.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

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I've known of Jindal back before he was in the national, even state, spotlight. The guy's exceptionally smart and has an incredible work ethic, if it weren't for his extreme right wingedness I'd have gotten on that bandwagon years ago. I always kinda hoped his ultra conservatism was a show to counterbalance his skin color (which I strongly believe was a contributing factor to his first loss for governor), but that hope died quite a while ago. There isn't any reason for me to think that Jindal isn't who he appears to be. It's a shame unfortunately he went down the ideological path he did or he could easily be on the level of Obama.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Battlehymn Republic »

Given that he graduated with honors from Brown and went on to become a Rhodes student I'm inclined to think that he's pandering a lot with some of the issues such as intelligent design. It is Louisiana we're talking about here. He probably really is hardcore anti-abortion, though.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

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Durandal wrote:Anyway, that disgruntled Republicans are already pinning hopes on this guy is, I guess, unsurprising. They actually think they weren't conservative enough this time around.
I think it's more telling that so many are focusing on social conservatism, rather than fiscal and policy conservatism. They seem to have completely forgotten the lessons that brought about the Republican Revolution under Clinton. Instead of focusing on the issues in common, they've begun demanding a mass conformity which is driving people away. The focus on what were wedge issues, meant to chip little of support away, rather than the larger issues is killing them. I think it'll take at least another presidential election cycle for them to get the arrogance knocked out of them and realize it.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Durandal »

NecronLord wrote:
Durandal wrote:And beyond all that, I have very deep intellectual suspicions of anyone who is a Catholic without the excuse of years of brainwashing from birth. Why anyone would actually voluntarily convert to that particular brand of Christianity is completely lost on me. This guy actually looked at the teachings of Catholicism and said "This makes perfect sense."
Why? It's got the exact same idiocies (sacrifices himself to himself to appease himself) as every other brand of Christianity. The vast majority of other sects are equally against things like homosexuality and birth control... If you had to pick one, and it wasn't one of the ultra-liberal ones, I can't see why it wouldn't be Catholicism.
The Catholic Church is the most profoundly arrogant of the Christian denominations. It believes its leader to be directly appointed by God -- even though a bunch of Cardinals actually elect him with a non-unanimous vote. It's also the only one that disallows its preachers from getting married and one of the few to oppose birth control, even in marital sex. The hangups about sex, which are extreme when compared to even other Christian denominations, should be enough to turn potential converts off, frankly.
Battlehymn Republic wrote:Given that he graduated with honors from Brown and went on to become a Rhodes student I'm inclined to think that he's pandering a lot with some of the issues such as intelligent design. It is Louisiana we're talking about here. He probably really is hardcore anti-abortion, though.
The guy voluntarily converted to Catholicism. As was mentioned before, the people who do that tend to be among the craziest of Catholics. Given how academically inclined he is, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he actually thought intelligent design deserved equal time in the classroom because academia is supposed to be open to all ideas and all that other garbage.
Surlethe wrote:The fourth reason is rather more cynical: perhaps Jindal decided to go into politics, and knew that Hinduism wouldn't get him very far, so he decided to convert to Christianity and picked Catholicism because of its consistently conservative stand on social issues.
I doubt it. Catholicism is still a liability with the bigot wing of the Republican party, who are all Protestants and can't stand the Catholic Church. If it was politically motivated, it was kind of a dumb move. And let's not forget that he thinks he exorcised an evil spirit from some girl one time in grad school. And wrote about it. In a journal article. The guy's bat-shit insane, so I have no problems believing that he converted to Catholicism for genuine reasons that would make sense to an insane person.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

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Stormbringer wrote:I think it's more telling that so many are focusing on social conservatism, rather than fiscal and policy conservatism. They seem to have completely forgotten the lessons that brought about the Republican Revolution under Clinton. Instead of focusing on the issues in common, they've begun demanding a mass conformity which is driving people away. The focus on what were wedge issues, meant to chip little of support away, rather than the larger issues is killing them. I think it'll take at least another presidential election cycle for them to get the arrogance knocked out of them and realize it.
I'd argue at least two election cycles, since they'd be going up against incumbent Obama in the first election cycle, and they'd blame his race and charisma for their failure.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Battlehymn Republic »

But Jindal does seem to have fiscal and policy conservatism atop his social conservatism. He seems to be very much the Reaganite in terms of administration. At least he has policy. Palin, on the other hand, may have simply been a female party doctrinaire Huckabee, with cultural instead of economic populism as her shtick.

(And yeah, I know the author of that post is pretty suspect, however he does bring up some interesting points and the comments below are pretty telling of the intellectual state of the Palin supporters.)
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Stormbringer »

Durandal wrote:The Catholic Church is the most profoundly arrogant of the Christian denominations. It believes its leader to be directly appointed by God -- even though a bunch of Cardinals actually elect him with a non-unanimous vote.
And damned near every Protestant out there believes that they've got a direct hotline to god. Is the papacy really that different from a Joe Random preacher in Bumfuck, Alabama believing the same thing? There are a whole shitload of people that believe they've some how got a special insight into what God wants and are directed by said God.

If anything the Catholic Church is probably better in that they actually believe such thing has limits.
Durandal wrote:It's also the only one that disallows its preachers from getting married and one of the few to oppose birth control, even in marital sex. The hangups about sex, which are extreme when compared to even other Christian denominations, should be enough to turn potential converts off, frankly.
That assumes that he's part of a group that actually enforces that or even gives a toss; there is a lot of dogma out there but the extent to which it's followed varies wildly. If you're really going to use it as a mark against him, it would probably be informative to see just what sort of diocese he joined.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Cecelia5578 »

Is no one metioning the article he wrote for the New Oxford Review a while back describing an actual exorcism? The NOR being a very traditionalist (as opposed to conservative-big differences there in Catholicism) publication.

He's simply a bog standard traditional Catholic, hands down. I'm sure he very much personally opposes abortion, homosexuality, birth control, the whole 9 yards when it comes to the culture wars.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Samuel »

I need to bring this up to my step mom- she still holds out hope for the party. Of course, if she knew how socially reactionary he was... well, hopefully it would change her mind. But I doubt it.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Durandal »

Stormbringer wrote:And damned near every Protestant out there believes that they've got a direct hotline to god. Is the papacy really that different from a Joe Random preacher in Bumfuck, Alabama believing the same thing? There are a whole shitload of people that believe they've some how got a special insight into what God wants and are directed by said God.
And not all of those people believe that God has chosen them to be the leader of an organization that counts its membership in the billions. There's a difference between some yahoo in Alabama and the world's oldest functioning bureaucracy. There's crazy and then there's crazy with a lot of people telling you that you're actually a prophet.
That assumes that he's part of a group that actually enforces that or even gives a toss; there is a lot of dogma out there but the extent to which it's followed varies wildly. If you're really going to use it as a mark against him, it would probably be informative to see just what sort of diocese he joined.
People who join the Catholic Church aren't the cafeteria-style Catholics. Trust me, I've known a few. They're the ones most likely to embrace all of those weird-ass teachings. And regardless of what his diocese thinks of birth control, they certainly don't let their priests marry.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Stormbringer »

Durandal wrote:And not all of those people believe that God has chosen them to be the leader of an organization that counts its membership in the billions. There's a difference between some yahoo in Alabama and the world's oldest functioning bureaucracy. There's crazy and then there's crazy with a lot of people telling you that you're actually a prophet.
If you're arguing that the Catholic Church has more political and financial clout than some random church, you'll get no arguments. However, the mindset you're referring to is no different than that of millions of others; they're just not as popular. And to be blunt, the Pope actually is more hedged around by tradition and law regarding to what extent he is considered to be speaking and acting for God than most Protestant preachers.
Durandal wrote:People who join the Catholic Church aren't the cafeteria-style Catholics. Trust me, I've known a few. They're the ones most likely to embrace all of those weird-ass teachings. And regardless of what his diocese thinks of birth control, they certainly don't let their priests marry.
So "trust me" is now valid evidence in a debate? I would be totally unsurprised if he had joined some insane branch that thinks the Pope has been going soft since the end of the Inquisition. But you've treated that as fact while never bothering to actually back it up.
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Re: Bobby Jindal is the Republican Barack Obama (apparently)

Post by Durandal »

Stormbringer wrote:If you're arguing that the Catholic Church has more political and financial clout than some random church, you'll get no arguments. However, the mindset you're referring to is no different than that of millions of others; they're just not as popular. And to be blunt, the Pope actually is more hedged around by tradition and law regarding to what extent he is considered to be speaking and acting for God than most Protestant preachers.
It's not just the Pope that exudes this mindset; it's enshrined into Catholic tradition. For example, if you're a Catholic, you can walk into any Protestant church and still receive communion. Not so if you're a Protestant in a Catholic Church. It's also notoriously difficult for a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic in a Catholic Church. The mother of a good friend of mine left the church for that very reason. Then there was the Pope Palpatine's infamous comment that non-Roman Catholic churches aren't proper churches.

Things like that are why the Catholic Church enjoys a reputation as the most arrogant and inflexible of Christian denominations. It's not undeserved. So I have to wonder why anyone with any intellectual rigor would want to join such an organization that is so self-assured and pisses all over other, similar organizations.
So "trust me" is now valid evidence in a debate? I would be totally unsurprised if he had joined some insane branch that thinks the Pope has been going soft since the end of the Inquisition. But you've treated that as fact while never bothering to actually back it up.
The guy believes that he participated in an exorcism and is hard-core anti-abortion, no exceptions. I've said this multiple times. I think that's enough evidence to place him in the "scary" branch of the Catholic Church.
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