UK police deal with machete wielding man (video via link)

[Kamakazie Sith]

Source

THIS is the shocking moment a machete wielding man swung a two-foot knife at more than 30 police officers.

The video - captured by an eyewitness - shows a pot-bellied man lunging at the cops with the huge blade wildly in the air.

On several occasions he lurches forward to aim blows at police officers armed only with batons.

The distressed man was said to have been spotted standing on a mini roundabout in Brockley, south London, holding the lethal weapon - before cops raced to the scene to tackle him.

With two squad cars parked in the middle of the road to act as cover, police officers screamed at the attacker and sprayed him with CS gas during the seven-minute video urging him to lay down his weapon.

He can be heard screaming "come on then" before dramatically cornering one policeman behind a wheelie bin.

But a brave college dashes to hit the machete-wielding man with his baton - before being driven back as the man turns and lashes out.

Officers wielding riot shields and batons then surround the man - before rushing the beleaguered man and pushing him to the ground.

The bemused witness is so shocked he almost forgets to continue filming as it takes 35 officers to over power the man and detain him.

Eyewitness Mark Pether, who filmed the astonishing footage from his home, said: "They tried to knock it out of his hand and one even tried to ram a bin in to him.

"It is crazy no one got seriously hurt or even killed. It was a terrifying experience."

The man was taken to a mental health unit at nearby University Hospital Lewisham after the incident on Monday night but has not been formally charged or arrested.

Met Police spokesman, Simon Fisher, said: "The man was detained under the Mental Health Act and taken to a secure medical facility where he remains."

Good job to most the officers involved that kept their distance. In case you were curious the only difference in a US police response would be the presence of a lethal solution if the situation suddenly became a matter of life or death.

Food for thought. If this man would have managed to start hacking up one of those cops how long do you think it would have took to stop him? I should note that he didn't seem particularly committed to murdering someone.

Comments?

[Rahvin]

I don't have a problem with lethal force when it's used in a defense-of-life scenario. Somebody starts stabbing or shooting, it's okay to shoot to make him stop.

I'm curious as to why other less-lethal options weren't used. Gas didn't work...but do British cops not have tasers? I wouldn't want to get within baton range of a deranged machete-wielding lunatic, I'd rather zap the shit out of him and cuff him while hes stunned. But then you might be able to provide input there, I don't know a lot about when a taser would be effective or proper.

[D.Turtle]

I wonder what the reasoning was for the one police officer to ram the guy a bit with a trash container.

Overall, an extremely dangerous situation that luckily ended well. We just yesterday (German) had a somewhat similar situation in which a distressed woman stabbed a police officer, was then shot (once) by another police officer and subsequently died in the hospital. The police officer was stabbed with a short (11 cm) blade in the stomach, and will survive - but it is still a very serious injury.

I don't want to imagine what could happen if somebody was hit by a two-foot machete.

The actual take-down was apparently done by rushing him from all sides with shields, so there was relatively little danger at that point.

[Chirios]

I don't have a problem with lethal force when it's used in a defense-of-life scenario. Somebody starts stabbing or shooting, it's okay to shoot to make him stop.

I'm curious as to why other less-lethal options weren't used. Gas didn't work...but do British cops not have tasers? I wouldn't want to get within baton range of a deranged machete-wielding lunatic, I'd rather zap the shit out of him and cuff him while hes stunned. But then you might be able to provide input there, I don't know a lot about when a taser would be effective or proper.

Nope. Tasers are usually only used when the opponent is armed with another long range weapon. There was a case a few months ago where the Police had to go up against a man armed with a rifle and pistol hidden in a forest, who had sworn a crusade to hunt down and kill any police officer he saw. The people that shot him were armed with tasers. The taser may have caused him to squeeze his firearm, causing him to shoot himself in the face. The investigation into whether or not there was police misconduct is ongoing.

Sorry if the tone is sarcastic, but the extent to which the British people have nerfed their police officers annoys me tremendously.

[Falarica]

Most officers don't have Tasers because there simply isn't the money around to give to everyone (let alone train them how to use them as well).

That and there are still arguments about how and when (not) to use them, for example if the person has a pacemaker etc.

Sorry if the tone is sarcastic, but the extent to which the British people have nerfed their police officers annoys me tremendously.

Me to. But as a British citizen I'm not sure that I want the police carrying around handguns, tasers I could deal with though.

[Zaune]

An additional problem with ranged weapons like tasers, not to mention firearms, is having to worry about a suspect grabbing it and turning it on the officer trying to slap some cuffs on them. Police from countries where firearms are routinely issued have to think about this all the time, which leaves fewer options for subduing hostile individuals safely and affects their body-language in ways that make it harder to defuse a confrontation verbally.

And even a taser will kill or badly wound if misused. The electric jolt isn't a serious problem unless the target has a heart condition, but one of those darts could really mess someone up at point-blank range, or if they were hit in the eye or throat.

[Highlord Laan]

Actually, there's another difference. Had this happened in the US, there wouldn't have even been an attempt to detain to guy, every officer there would have just emptied a magazine, then given interviews with heroic music in the background.

[Mr. Coffee]

Comments?

If this had happened in the US the guy would've gotten tazed till he would be considered legally retarded, he'd have taken a couple of bean-bag shells for a shot gun, or if it was Arizona they'd have probably just shot his ass. Good on the Met for taking the guy down without getting anyone killed or maimed in the process.

[Simon_Jester]

Sorry if the tone is sarcastic, but the extent to which the British people have nerfed their police officers annoys me tremendously.

This is actually semi-traditional: for decades, British police officers used to carry truncheons and not firearms, except on night patrol or very unusual circumstances. That goes back to the beginnings of their policing tradition- dislike of the idea of gun-carrying police in Britain just seems to be a local thing, on par with any number of quirks in other countries that are difficult to explain to foreigners.

[Themightytom]

We shoot family dogs, we taze baby squirrels, in the US if someone pulls out a sword, he's getting shot. Officer no. 1 is probably aiming for a nonlethal center of mass shot, but multiplied by his panicking buddies, Swordman gets about thirty rounds in less than five seconds, and we call it suicide by cop.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Me to. But as a British citizen I'm not sure that I want the police carrying around handguns, tasers I could deal with though.

If that's how you feel then those officers should not be asked to deal with persons wielding lethal weapons. It's not widely published but tasers do fail. I've personally had my taser fail twice. That would suck if you were being chased by a guy with a machete determined to murder you.

Using a taser against a person wielding a firearm is insane. I respect the desire to save life but not at the cost of the life of another person who did not create the situation.

This is why...
Sgt. Timothy Chapin of the Chattanooga Police Department is an excellent example. It involved a robbery where the suspect immediately engaged police with gun fire. Well, the suspect runs and actually runs into Sgt Chapins patrol car falling to the ground and the suspects gun also fell out of his hand. Sgt. Chapin sees this and uses his taser. He gets good hits with the taser but the suspect manages to pull a backup gun and shoots Sgt. Chapin in the head killing him.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Actually, there's another difference. Had this happened in the US, there wouldn't have even been an attempt to detain to guy, every officer there would have just emptied a magazine, then given interviews with heroic music in the background.

Highlord displays his ignorance. A similar situation actually happened with Salt Lake City Police on Thursday, 5/19/2011. None of your fiction took place. You might want to recognize that you have an emotional bias clouding your judgement and deal with it so you won't sound like a fucking retard.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Comments?

If this had happened in the US the guy would've gotten tazed till he would be considered legally retarded, he'd have taken a couple of bean-bag shells for a shot gun, or if it was Arizona they'd have probably just shot his ass. Good on the Met for taking the guy down without getting anyone killed or maimed in the process.

In the SLC incident I believe they did end up using 40mm rubber round. This knocked him down and they were able to take him safely into custody using a ladder as a stand off tool. They saved his life because he tried to commit suicide by cop and when he realized that wasn't going to happen he put the knife to his own throat which is why they acted to stop him and save his life.

Interestingly enough there isn't a single article about it...yet.

[Shroom Man 777]

Still, at least stories about the Met's professionalism will help cast a better light on the law enforcement profession after all those depressing stories about cops killing dogs and everything. The Met are a credit to policemen everywhere, and their shining example fills me with hope. Truly they are... the Hot Fuzz.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Still, at least stories about the Met's professionalism will help cast a better light on the law enforcement profession after all those depressing stories about cops killing dogs and everything. The Met are a credit to policemen everywhere, and their shining example fills me with hope. Truly they are... the Hot Fuzz.

I have a lot more respect for UK news media than I do for US news media. However, I agree. They did an outstanding job.

[Shroom Man 777]

I wonder how viable "suicide by cop" is in places like the UK where, well, its a more difficult proposition since the cops there just beat you with sticks instead of shoot you with gun.

How high are police brutality and abuse rates, and how prevalent is the thin blue line phenomenon, if the people and the government don't give so much power to the cops, to the point of not even arming them with guns? Does this make abuse less likely? Or is it no different, even if the people and the government limit their powers, even their power to carry firearms (which, to police in other nations, is something unthinkable)?

[Crazy_Vasey]

Using a taser against a person wielding a firearm is insane. I respect the desire to save life but not at the cost of the life of another person who did not create the situation.

Specialist firearms officers will be deployed if guns are involved. They're armed.

I wonder how viable "suicide by cop" is in places like the UK where, well, its a more difficult proposition since the cops there just beat you with sticks instead of shoot you with gun.

It's quite possible if you wave a gun around or persuade people that you're carrying a gun. Then the firearms guys will be sent out and they will shoot you if you don't back down. Otherwise, I'd imagine it to be fairly difficult.

[Shroom Man 777]

Okay. Still, I wonder how the dynamics of UK law enforcement works, and what police corruption is like there. What would British police abuses of power look like, when their officers aren't even usually granted the power to carry guns? Are they similarly de-powered in other ways, which makes power-abuses more difficult? It's hard to imagine a crooked cop when all the heat he's packing is just a beating-stick.

[Crazy_Vasey]

I don't think police corruption is any more or less prevalent than in other developed nations. They can't threaten you with a gun, but they still have all other tricks that a dodgy bobby can pull.

For example, there was a fair amount of fuss a while back when it came to light that the police had infiltrated an environmental protest group and that the guy doing the infiltration had been having it away with some of the female members as well as, if I recall correctly, lobbying for them to take more legally suspect measures in their protests. See here for more information.

There's a fair amount of noise about how the Met police protests, too, with that guy at the G20 protests who died after being knocked over by a bobby being something of a flashpoint.

Your mileage may vary on these things and how big a deal they are but they do happen.

[Zaune]

Okay. Still, I wonder how the dynamics of UK law enforcement works, and what police corruption is like there. What would British police abuses of power look like, when their officers aren't even usually granted the power to carry guns? Are they similarly de-powered in other ways, which makes power-abuses more difficult? It's hard to imagine a crooked cop when all the heat he's packing is just a beating-stick.

Bear in mind that acquiring a gun in this country is difficult and expensive, legally or otherwise; a rusty .38 Special on the black market costs as much as a brand new Glock 17 in a US gun store (I don't want to talk about how and why I know this), and the requirements for a permit for a shotgun or rifle include annual spot-checks to ensure you haven't fallen into bad habits when it comes to keeping them under lock and key. Some crooks have even been caught toting single-shot pistols converted from BB guns for lack of anything better.

[Shroom Man 777]

I'm not just talking about guns though. If the people and the government are so cautious that they are not even willing to arm the police, then what other institutional limitations have been put on British cops? Because, from the fact that mere guns are kept away from them, it seems as though they have less power to exercise (or abuse) than other cops in other countries.

[Elheru Aran]

Hmmm. To deal with a guy with a machete? Call out the local SCA/medieval re-enacters or fight clubs... a guy competent in sword-and-buckler or sword-and-shield would be able to deal with this no problem

More seriously, a machete is a bit of a crude hack-and-slash weapon, often without much of a good edge; useful against unarmoured opponents but much weaker against shields or armour. What you do in this situation, you have a number of (nonlethal) options...

1.) Taser, as previously mentioned; iffy
2.) Bring out riot shields and helmets, and surround the guy, closing in until you can bring him down with a well-placed truncheon.
3.) Water-cannon him until he's worn down and then nick him.

I could probably think of more ways to deal with the situation, but in a place like Britain where civilian access to firearms is far more restricted than here in the US, I'm surprised they don't have more procedures to deal with knife/machete/sword-wielding loonies. Dangerous? Yes. But less dangerous than a guy with a gun, who can shoot right through a riot shield...

[Psychic_Sandwich]

Okay. Still, I wonder how the dynamics of UK law enforcement works, and what police corruption is like there. What would British police abuses of power look like, when their officers aren't even usually granted the power to carry guns? Are they similarly de-powered in other ways, which makes power-abuses more difficult? It's hard to imagine a crooked cop when all the heat he's packing is just a beating-stick.

Well, when you get right down to it, most people will back down when threatened with a beating, especially if confronted by more than one person. You get stuff like photographers being arrested for taking pictures of parades where there are children present, or filming police and so forth, despite that shit being struck down every single time it happens, and the officers involved generally just get slaps on the wrists. On the other hand, it's extremely rare for anybody to be killed, and pretty much any killing by the police makes national news and often sparks major enquiries if the situation is even the least bit suspicious. Or more than one.

To take an example, there was a newspaper seller knocked over by a Met officer a couple of years ago who later died as a result. The initial inquest found that he died of natural causes, but the forensic pathologist responsible for that has been struck off and is, IIRC, awaiting criminal charges for a whole bunch of things related to fucking up his job, and everybody else who's had a look at the body testifies that he was full of shit, and the guy died because he was pushed over. There have been several other public inquests since then, the latest being pretty high profile. So far as I can tell, that just doesn't happen in the US; the force involved conducts it's own investigation and that's it, presumably because 'death by cop' is a lot more common in the US than the UK, so public inquests into most killings would be impossible.

It certainly used to be the case that UK police were extremely crooked and brutal, but there were a whole series of reforms in the late 80s and early 90s to fix that, and for the most part, they've worked IMO.

[weemadando]

Sorry if the tone is sarcastic, but the extent to which the British people have nerfed their police officers annoys me tremendously.

When I was in London in 2008 I saw far more officers carrying around MP-5s than I did your standard unarmed bobby.

Just sayin'.

[[R_H]]

Edit: never mind