ERMERGERD!!! VOTER FRAUD ON MAIL IN BALLOTS... Committed by a republican...

[Crossroads Inc.]

NEW YORK TIMES

In a story that best goes under “THE SKY IS BLUE!” and “WATER IS WET!” comes yet another of the “VOTER FRAUD COMMITTED BY REPUBLICAN!”

Talk of election fraud may conjure images of high-tech operations, ones that rely on hacked emails and a network of fake social media accounts.
A recent case in West Virginia, however, was decidedly less sophisticated. According to federal prosecutors, it involved just one mail carrier and a little bit of black ink.

The mail carrier, Thomas Cooper, 47, of Dry Fork, W.Va., pleaded guilty on Thursday to one count of attempted election fraud and one count of “injury to the mail,” according to a statement from the U.S. Attorney’s Office in the Northern District of West Virginia.
Prosecutors said that Mr. Cooper admitted to altering eight primary ballot request forms with black ink. On five of those forms, the political party was changed from Democrat to Republican, officials said, and they would have resulted in Democratic voters receiving ballots featuring Republican primary candidates.

The clerk of Pendleton County spotted the alterations in April and contacted state officials, spurring an investigation, prosecutors said.
An investigator with the state attorney general’s office spoke with the voters, who confirmed that their ballot requests had been altered, according to an affidavit filed with the court.

Eventually, that investigator and a U.S. postal inspector questioned Mr. Cooper, who, according to the affidavit, held a U.S. Postal Service contract to deliver mail in the three towns where the eight voters reside: Onego, Riverton and Franklin.

The alterations looked obvious and affected only a tiny fraction of the state’s more than one million voters. At one point in the interview, Mr. Cooper was asked if he was “just being silly” when he altered the ballot requests. According to the affidavit, he replied, “Yeah” and said that he did it “as a joke.”

Efforts to reach Mr. Cooper by phone and email on Thursday night were not successful. He will be sentenced at a later date, according to local news reports.

To encourage voters to use mail-in voting during the coronavirus pandemic, absentee ballot applications were mailed to all registered voters in West Virginia in advance of their primary election on June 9.

"It was just a big joke! he didn't MEAN any harm! No need to make a fuss about it!"
Because no one really is... Certainly no one on the right has mentioned this "voter fraud" And Certainly El Trumpo hasn't had any tweets about it...

[Tribble]

Well, ya. Republicans have no problems committing voter fraud, and are increasingly ok with openly admitting it too. And they’ll have no issue with using this as an example as to why Democrat voter fraud is a massive threat in order to suppress Democrat voter turnout further. Without even blinking an eye. Because when you view your political opponents as an enemy that needs to be wiped off the map by whatever means at your disposal, that’s how your mindset works.

IMO the only reason why Republicans don’t simply jail and/or execute their political opponents is because they calculated it’s too risky atm, not because of some sense of morals.

Give them a few more years to consolidate control and it might be a different story.

[Zaune]

The worst part is, this is exactly why most countries don't let people have mail-in ballots unless they can demonstrate a pressing need: Man-in-the-middle attacks like this are a lot harder when the chain of custody is as short and thoroughly vetted as possible.

The solution to voter suppression isn't giving people ways to vote that don't require them to meet onerous voter ID requirements imposed by officials demonstrably acting in bad faith. It's treating onerous voter ID requirements imposed by officials demonstrably acting in bad faith as what it is: Sedition, or at least Conspiracy Against Rights.

[bilateralrope]

The worst part is, this is exactly why most countries don't let people have mail-in ballots unless they can demonstrate a pressing need:

Is Covid19 enough of a pressing need ?

[Zaune]

Is Covid19 enough of a pressing need ?

Good question. If this plague had hit us in 2012 or even 2016 then I would have said yes, albeit with reluctance. As of now I don't know. Hell, I don't even know if it matters anymore, because there are two possible outcomes for this election and they both suck.

[The Romulan Republic]

Is Covid19 enough of a pressing need ?

Good question. If this plague had hit us in 2012 or even 2016 then I would have said yes, albeit with reluctance. As of now I don't know. Hell, I don't even know if it matters anymore, because there are two possible outcomes for this election and they both suck.

It matters to everyone who doesn't want America to literally become the Fourth Reich.

There is no equivalency between Trump and Biden. Anyone who says their is is after the last four years is either utterly oblivious and stupid, or working on behalf of the Trump campaign to Make America Heil Again.

Or, let me put it another way: Surgery and dying both suck. But people get surgeries because they're usually considered preferable to dying.

[bilateralrope]

Is Covid19 enough of a pressing need ?

Good question. If this plague had hit us in 2012 or even 2016 then I would have said yes, albeit with reluctance. As of now I don't know. Hell, I don't even know if it matters anymore, because there are two possible outcomes for this election and they both suck.

Finding areas where Trump is worse than Biden is easy. For example, Trump holding rallies that spread Covid19 while Biden doesn't.

Finding areas where Biden is worse than Trump on that issue is more difficult. Can you think of any ?

[mr friendly guy]

Is Covid19 enough of a pressing need ?

Good question. If this plague had hit us in 2012 or even 2016 then I would have said yes, albeit with reluctance. As of now I don't know. Hell, I don't even know if it matters anymore, because there are two possible outcomes for this election and they both suck.

Finding areas where Trump is worse than Biden is easy. For example, Trump holding rallies that spread Covid19 while Biden doesn't.

Finding areas where Biden is worse than Trump on that issue is more difficult. Can you think of any ?

Biden supported the war in Iraq. Trump at least changed his mind on that, from yeah ok in late 2002, to very vague (either way) in the months prior to that, and opposed it in 2004.

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donal ... -iraq-war/

[Ralin]

Biden supported the war in Iraq. Trump at least changed his mind on that, from yeah ok in late 2002, to very vague (either way) in the months prior to that, and opposed it in 2004.

https://www.factcheck.org/2016/02/donal ... -iraq-war/

Trump has not far as I know aired Sinophobic ads ranting about how he would force China to accept CDC medical teams in their country and make it clear they don't have a choice in the matter.

[Zaune]

Okay, so I should probably elaborate on my last post a bit. I'm not saying I think both possible outcomes to the upcoming Presidential election will suck because I think Biden will be as bad as Trump. I'm saying so because I expect that the minute he realises he's not going to win, Trump will lose whatever tenuous grasp he has left on his sanity and intentionally kick off another War of Southern Aggression.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Trump has not far as I know aired Sinophobic ads ranting about how he would force China to accept CDC medical teams in their country and make it clear they don't have a choice in the matter.

No, in fact Trump's Sinophobic ads are much worse than that. There isn't much subtlety to "CHINA IS KILLING OUR PEOPLE." Besides the ads, Trump has repeatedly and deliberately stirred up anti-Chinese sentiment with his "kung flu" and "Chinese virus" rhetoric (and lending credence to conspiracy theories about China creating covid in a lab to target America), leading to a spike in hate crimes against Asian-Americans.

Both parties are pretty anti-China these days, but Trump is always going to win out if you are trying to compare who does it in the most repugnant way.

[mr friendly guy]

Biden's sinophobia has manifested with the old racial trope of Chinese can't invent things. He has used it over the years as a way to say China isn't a threat to us, because they can only copy. Trump doesn't care about Chinese innovation, because his rhetoric about "China screwing us in trade," just requires China to have good negotiators.

Both are pretty bad, although you would think with Biden underestimation of China, he is less likely to cause a confrontation like Trump. On the other hand, Trump's sinophobia as noted has caused hate crimes against Asian Americans.

[Ralin]

/quote]

No, in fact Trump's Sinophobic ads are much worse than that. There isn't much subtlety to "CHINA IS KILLING OUR PEOPLE." Besides the ads, Trump has repeatedly and deliberately stirred up anti-Chinese sentiment with his "kung flu" and "Chinese virus" rhetoric (and lending credence to conspiracy theories about China creating covid in a lab to target America), leading to a spike in hate crimes against Asian-Americans.

Both parties are pretty anti-China these days, but Trump is always going to win out if you are trying to compare who does it in the most repugnant way.

Okay, fair enough. I hear about a limited number of campaign ads so it takes a particularly terrible one to register.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I mean, I don't want to defend Biden or the Democrats on this in any way. There is a lot of grass-roots anti-Chinese sentiment in the US that both parties (and the corporate-political upper class of the US in general) are eager to capitalize on. Both parties are full of staunch China-hawks, though the details of why and how vary. A Biden administration is likely to be very aggressive in trying to counter China's growing global influence, due to a combination of many almost contradictory actors (on one hand there is a genuine if often naively expressed desire to speak out against actual Chinese human rights violations, but this is watered down not only by the corporatist influence on decision-making but also by a revanchist streak of lingering American exceptionalist/neo-colonialist anxieties eager to re-exert our role as a "world leader"). But, as I said before, Trump just always seems willing and capable of "one-upping" the worst elements of American society. If nothing else, he will express the same idea but in an even more repugnant way.

[The Romulan Republic]

Yup. And this holds true pretty much across the board. Any criticism you can make of Biden, however well-founded (and many of them are very well-founded), Trump has done it too, done it more, and done it worse. Along with all the vile things which are specific to Trump.

Of course, people want something more than "less shitty" to vote for, but I think that the big point in Biden's favor here is that unlike Trump, he is someone willing to at least sit down and talk with, and to some extent listen to, people he disagrees with. He's an institutionalist and a compromiser, and a lot of progressives hate those things, but he is absolutely not going to try to be an autocrat like Trump (the only Democrat in the primary who really showed that tendency so far as I recall was Bloomberg- I would have been genuinely worried if he had got the nomination that we were choosing the lesser of two dictators).

[Zaune]

Of course, people want something more than "less shitty" to vote for, but I think that the big point in Biden's favor here is that unlike Trump, he is someone willing to at least sit down and talk with, and to some extent listen to, people he disagrees with.

If he was taking over from Bush Jr, or a hypothetical McCain or Romney administration, I'd say that was a good thing. In the immediate aftermath of what I suspect is going to happen this coming November? Well, I don't think I have to remind anyone what came of letting the Confederacy off lightly last time.

[The Romulan Republic]

Of course, people want something more than "less shitty" to vote for, but I think that the big point in Biden's favor here is that unlike Trump, he is someone willing to at least sit down and talk with, and to some extent listen to, people he disagrees with.

If he was taking over from Bush Jr, or a hypothetical McCain or Romney administration, I'd say that was a good thing. In the immediate aftermath of what I suspect is going to happen this coming November? Well, I don't think I have to remind anyone what came of letting the Confederacy off lightly last time.

When I say that he's willing to sit down and talk to others, and listen to them, I'm mostly referring to his conduct toward Sanders supporters, to Warren, and toward Never Trump Republicans on the other side.

I have had concerns that he won't be aggressive enough in going after the Trumpers, although his pledge that he would not pardon Trump, or interfere in any investigation into him, helps somewhat. I think the best we can hope for on that score is that Biden stays neutral and lets the prosecutors do their job (who he appoints as AG will also matter).

I don't think he's going to appoint Trumpers to his administration or anything, though I suspect we'll see some "Never Trump" Republicans offered posts (some people have raised the possibility of Romney as Secretary of State, though I don't know how plausible that is). As long as an equal or greater number of progressives are offered posts, I can live with it (given that he's reportedly been working closely with her on economic policy, I still hold out some hope for Warren as Treasury Secretary if she doesn't get the VP slot).

[Gandalf]

I have had concerns that he won't be aggressive enough in going after the Trumpers, although his pledge that he would not pardon Trump, or interfere in any investigation into him, helps somewhat. I think the best we can hope for on that score is that Biden stays neutral and lets the prosecutors do their job (who he appoints as AG will also matter).

Unfortunately I'm none too confident that a Biden administration will prosecute many from the Trump admin. He said that charges were "on the table" for Bush II and friends back in 08, and unfortunately nothing came of it.

I don't think he's going to appoint Trumpers to his administration or anything, though I suspect we'll see some "Never Trump" Republicans offered posts (some people have raised the possibility of Romney as Secretary of State, though I don't know how plausible that is). As long as an equal or greater number of progressives are offered posts, I can live with it (given that he's reportedly been working closely with her on economic policy, I still hold out some hope for Warren as Treasury Secretary if she doesn't get the VP slot).

I see this sort of thing a bit. Why is there always a push to put Republicans in the cabinet?

[The Romulan Republic]

Unfortunately I'm none too confident that a Biden administration will prosecute many from the Trump admin. He said that charges were "on the table" for Bush II and friends back in 08, and unfortunately nothing came of it.

True, but in fairness to him, he wasn't President then, or AG, and it wasn't his call.

My guess is he's not going to do anything that smacks of him as PotUS interfering, Trump-style, in an investigation, either to squash or encourage one. He'll stay officially neutral, and his main influence on it is going to be indirectly, via which prosecutors/AG/judges he appoints.

I think the main legal danger to Trump, however, is from New York State prosecutors, and Federal prosecutors in the Southern District of New York. The former Biden basically can't interfere with, so I'll be fairly happy as long as he doesn't interfere with the efforts of the latter.

I see this sort of thing a bit. Why is there always a push to put Republicans in the cabinet?

"Bipartisanship" Or in this case trying to build the largest possible Not Trump coalition. Biden is trying to position himself as the guy who can unite the Bernie Sanders movement with the Never Trump Republicans.

[Ralin]

I see this sort of thing a bit. Why is there always a push to put Republicans in the cabinet?

There's this persistent desire to see our government actually work. That requires people from both parties to cooperate and have some degree of collegiality. Otherwise you get eight years of Obama deadlock.

I agree that this is in many ways an over-optimistic goal, but there aren't a lot of viable alternatives.

[The Romulan Republic]

I see this sort of thing a bit. Why is there always a push to put Republicans in the cabinet?

There's this persistent desire to see our government actually work. That requires people from both parties to cooperate and have some degree of collegiality. Otherwise you get eight years of Obama deadlock.

I agree that this is in many ways an over-optimistic goal, but there aren't a lot of viable alternatives.

The only viable alternative would be a Dem sweep, preferably with a Senate supermajority. To get everything we want through, we'd also need a much stronger progressive wing in both houses of Congress and likely some court packing.

Sadly, that's not terribly likely. We'll probably get the Presidency and House, maybe a few more progressive seats, maybe barely the Senate.

[Zaune]

"Bipartisanship" Or in this case trying to build the largest possible Not Trump coalition. Biden is trying to position himself as the guy who can unite the Bernie Sanders movement with the Never Trump Republicans.

This does not fill me with confidence that he's the President the United States will need in the immediate aftermath of the upcoming election. Mitt Romney hasn't stopped being everything we hated about him in 2012 just because the GOP decided to roll with someone even worse the next time around.

[The Romulan Republic]

I think we're going to see a constant struggle between the Center Right wing and the progressive wing of the Biden coalition as to who will influence him more. The best thing we can do is elect as many downballot progressives as possible in every race. Biden has always gone with the mainstream of the Democratic Party, by and large. Move the party left, Biden follows. The good news is he's somewhat susceptible to pressure. The downside is that we will need to keep that pressure on him to keep him from sliding back toward the Center Right.