Mass sexual assault in Cologne, including rape cases

[Edi]

If there are repeats of incidents like this, there is no reason not to switch into dealing with such crowds the same way they would be dealt with in Assad's Syria. If they can't abide by the rules of the land they have come to, perhaps they will understand when they are treated according to the rules of the place they left.

Or perhaps we shouldn´t use dictatorships as role models.
There are plenty of reasons not to use dictatorshops as role models. In fact that would be the worst reaction possible.
If they turn out to be asylum seakers and the crime carries a sentance of 3 years in prison or more they can be deported. Otherwise they should get whatever anyone else would get, no matter where they are from.

Of course not as a first response, but I have absolutely no objection to police bashing enough heads in that they get the point that they are expected to comply with police orders and there is no skating by with bullshit. The cultural differences in this instance play a major role, in that if they think they can ignore things with impunity because our culture is not as harsh as the one they come from, people like this need to be beaten into submission and shown that if they don't behave, they will be beaten until they do. After all, you don't need to beat those who are already complying with the laws and behaving, only the miscreants, and despite the views of naive morons, there are certain kinds of people who will only understand and respect force.

As far as imprisonment for crimes, with the numbers currently in, if they are convicted, there is no point in throwing them in prison. Immediate deportation and case closed. If a deported criminal gets killed wherever they are deported to, there is absolutely no reason why anyone should care.

[salm]

That is German standard procedure. Demonstators and mobs get routinely beaten up by the police.
Assad uses snipers or simply opens fire on demonstrators.

The former can be a good reaction. The latter isn´t.

[cmdrjones]

More updates:

- number of rape victims has increased to two, total number of cases has been increased to 120+ in cologne alone
- police have identified 16 perpetrators and are trying to find their identities.
- there have been similar attacks in Stuttgart. Number and extent is unclear.
- 4 Syrians are in custody for gang-raping two 14 and 15 yo girls in Weil am Rhein. Three of them are in custody, a fourth one has fled. Probably unrelated to the other attacks.

All in all, this has probably done more damage to refugee causes than the threat of terrorists among them.

What is the "refugee cause" apart from these types of activities? Or may this perhaps be better labelled as refugee activities Or refugee preferences rather than a particular cause?

[Colonel Olrik]

More updates:

- number of rape victims has increased to two, total number of cases has been increased to 120+ in cologne alone
- police have identified 16 perpetrators and are trying to find their identities.
- there have been similar attacks in Stuttgart. Number and extent is unclear.
- 4 Syrians are in custody for gang-raping two 14 and 15 yo girls in Weil am Rhein. Three of them are in custody, a fourth one has fled. Probably unrelated to the other attacks.

All in all, this has probably done more damage to refugee causes than the threat of terrorists among them.

What is the "refugee cause" apart from these types of activities? Or may this perhaps be better labelled as refugee activities Or refugee preferences rather than a particular cause?

By refugee cause he means the politicians and population in Germany that are ready and willing to receive and shelter them in Germany. A significant number of Germans go the extra mile to make asylum seekers feel welcome, with flowers, food, clothes and big Germany loves you signs at the main train stations as you see on TV. The last group albeit well intentioned has if you ask me got drunk on Kool-aid.

[K. A. Pital]

Update: the number of reported offenses is now over 200. Around three quarters are (also) sexual offenses.

Ouch. I think that does require action.

According to EU and German law, non EU people cannot legally enter Germany on a work visa without already having a job secured, unless they're coming to study. The job they find must be qualified work and must pay above the self sufficiency threshold.

Not on a work visa, no, but the refugees are non-EU citizens. I know every nook and cranny of the "work visa" immigration process, being a non-EU foreigner myself.

Asylum seekers are different: they receive free housing and an allowance which is exactly the assistance any native, destitute native German receives. Plus integration and language courses, and free medical care of the same quality I receive.

The housing they receive is sometimes awful. I have seen photos of a refugee home in Oberursel which was really terrible. The refugees receive a right to work, but not immediately (just as with skilled immigration, there are terms of wait and search for a suitable EU candidate even when the AA approves their work permit).

That so many are currently living in temporary lodgings is a consequence of the overwhelming number of people arriving. There's no housing available, many poorer Germans (and a lot of older immigrants who have the right to social assistance) are resenting the newcomers for a simple reason: there is no more free or subsidized housing to be had for them.

I know. Besides, the housing is exceptionally expensive. So the locals are themselves often without any property.

Germany is a highly productive, mechanized country, where even garbish collectors have to operate complex machinery.

I can do a lot - higher education, programming experience, etc. but my job chances are still abysmal. I command several laguages, including the national language, fluently. And yet... Burger-flipping or crate-packing. The rest? Not a shot. So certainly I think even with perfect labour market access the problem will persist.

[Colonel Olrik]

There is no quick solution to the accommodation problem when in winter we're still receiving 3000 newcomers a day. I have friends who live in really exclusive areas, where family home prices start at one million euro, and they have now improvised refugee centers a couple hundred meters away. So do I from my home. Germany is not the size of Russia..

About a job, Have you tried Munich and Bavaria? And the most important question, how is your German? There are so many local companies looking for skilled programmers (and not finding any) that I would think your chances to be good around here. Provided your German is good enough to write a cover letter and CV, otherwise they probably won't bother to invite you for an interview from abroad.

[K. A. Pital]

It's ~C1 (used to be almost native, but degraded after decades of sparse use), plus all the other languages - but to be fair, I do already have a job. I was looking for something not because I really needed it, but because I wanted to see what the companies have to offer and what chances does an educated foreigner have. Call it curiosity. But I am not going to relocate, which obviously limited the search area.

I have friends who live in really exclusive areas, where family home prices start at one million euro, and they have now improvised refugee centers a couple hundred meters away. So do I from my home.

If you look at my location, you will know I am in such an area. Or very close to it, anyway.

[Colonel Olrik]

Yeah, with C1 in German and C2 in English plus Russian you'd find a good job in Munich/Bavaria if you wanted, I'm 100% sure of it.

[K. A. Pital]

And it seems the mooks were coordinating it.

Describing what she called “coordination tactics” among the men, Shabani said: “I watched for some time as three men who were smartly dressed gave out instructions. One time a group of three or four males would come up to them, be given instructions and sent away into the crowd. Then another group of four or five would come up, and they’d gesticulate in various directions and send them off again.”

The men occasionally paused to take selfies on their mobiles, she said, adding that they wore “sports chic” or “the type of clothing rappers might wear – smart trainers, baseball caps”.

“It looked to me like they were clearly directing the events,” said Shabani, describing the evening as “chaotic”.

[Edi]

All the more reason to deal with them in a manner that they will unambiguously understand. If the authorities do not do so, in the future someone else will, and the kind of people who are willing to do that won't really care if it involves shedding blood.

Slime like that should be deported, no matter if it would be directly into the middle of a warzone. They're military deserters in any case.

[salm]

All the more reason to deal with them in a manner that they will unambiguously understand. If the authorities do not do so, in the future someone else will, and the kind of people who are willing to do that won't really care if it involves shedding blood.

Slime like that should be deported, no matter if it would be directly into the middle of a warzone. They're military deserters in any case.

How do you know that they are military deserters?
And why should we give them an illegal sentance?

[Edi]

The societies they come from are clan-based even if they masquerade in the trappings of modern states. In those societies, you are supposed to stand up for your own folks, but instead, these, the most fit fighting age males, have chosen to run and leave weaker and vulnerable back there defenseless. That's being a fucking deserter, even if it doesn't maybe fulfill a strict legal definition. I do not give a shit if it falls short on that score.

There is a lot of merit to the saying of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". If they come here, whether that here be Germany or Finland or elsewhere, they should adhere to that. If they refuse, and choose to come here to commit crimes, why the fuck should we have any obligation to not just kick them first in the nuts and then in the head before we kick them out? The ones who pull shit like what happened in Köln, and especially the ones who organized it, toward them we don't have any obligations of protection, not morally. You step on cockroaches like that until you hear a crunching sound.

Yeah, that's tribal thinking. Humans happen to be tribal creatures, and there is a time when outsiders pull shit on your folks that you need to bash them in the head until they are bloody and then ask them if they've had enough. And if they give you anything other than acknowledgement, you finish the job. They do not need to be given a second chance, not like members of your own tribe do, who get beaten bloody, thrown in jail and only finished off if they still don't learn after that (locked away for life for example).

Until these newcomers get that lesson taught to them in ways they cannot possibly mistake, shit like New Year's Eve in Köln is going to get repeated again and again. The next time it happens, having the riot police go to town on them until there is enough blood and broken bones for the lesson to sink in would be a good start.

It comes back down to some folks only understanding the language of violence. It's not going to change, and there are a lot of people in the west to whom this entire concept is so alien that they go into abject denial if it is so much as mentioned. And far too many of those morons are running the show.

It does not mean that we should use violence as the first tool, but it should be there on the table, visible and inert, until the time comes to wield it, and when that time comes, it should be wielded decisively. Basically, speak kindly and hold your hand out in friendship, but carry a big stick. And if your kindness and hand of friendship get spat on and bitten, swing the stick without mercy.

I don't agree with the hardline right-wing xenophobes and bigots who are out to fan the flames of conflict and incite hatred toward entire groups of people without so much as looking or giving any benefit of the doubt. I start from a position of giving the benefit of the doubt, but if that doesn't pan out, then I do not have any problem with harsh remedies. I'll gladly welcome outsiders who are good and decent folks, but the ones whose stunts have been the subject of recent discussion? No. Just get rid of them and there is no reason to care one whit what happens to them afterward, because they earned it by their actions.

[salm]

The societies they come from are clan-based even if they masquerade in the trappings of modern states. In those societies, you are supposed to stand up for your own folks, but instead, these, the most fit fighting age males, have chosen to run and leave weaker and vulnerable back there defenseless. That's being a fucking deserter, even if it doesn't maybe fulfill a strict legal definition. I do not give a shit if it falls short on that score.

No they´re not. They were not part of an army so they´re not deserters.
Even if some of them deserted from one of the gazillions of factions of which almost non is a recognized nation and therefore not a recognized army from which you can officially desert they can still claim asylum.

There is a lot of merit to the saying of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". If they come here, whether that here be Germany or Finland or elsewhere, they should adhere to that. If they refuse, and choose to come here to commit crimes, why the fuck should we have any obligation to not just kick them first in the nuts and then in the head before we kick them out? The ones who pull shit like what happened in Köln, and especially the ones who organized it, toward them we don't have any obligations of protection, not morally. You step on cockroaches like that until you hear a crunching sound.

According to the law they can be kicked out if they commit a crime that is worth 3 years in prison. Most of the crimes in Cologne probably do not fit this bill. And even then it can be difficult. So unless you propose disasembling equality before the law there is probably no way to kick most of these people out.
In cases where they can be thrown out I´d still put them in prison first and throw them out later. It would be too easy to re enter the country with a different name.

Yeah, that's tribal thinking. Humans happen to be tribal creatures, and there is a time when outsiders pull shit on your folks that you need to bash them in the head until they are bloody and then ask them if they've had enough. And if they give you anything other than acknowledgement, you finish the job. They do not need to be given a second chance, not like members of your own tribe do, who get beaten bloody, thrown in jail and only finished off if they still don't learn after that (locked away for life for example).

Equality before the law is one of the things that makes Europe good. If we disasemble it we lose.

Until these newcomers get that lesson taught to them in ways they cannot possibly mistake, shit like New Year's Eve in Köln is going to get repeated again and again. The next time it happens, having the riot police go to town on them until there is enough blood and broken bones for the lesson to sink in would be a good start.

It comes back down to some folks only understanding the language of violence. It's not going to change, and there are a lot of people in the west to whom this entire concept is so alien that they go into abject denial if it is so much as mentioned. And far too many of those morons are running the show.

It does not mean that we should use violence as the first tool, but it should be there on the table, visible and inert, until the time comes to wield it, and when that time comes, it should be wielded decisively. Basically, speak kindly and hold your hand out in friendship, but carry a big stick. And if your kindness and hand of friendship get spat on and bitten, swing the stick without mercy.

I don't agree with the hardline right-wing xenophobes and bigots who are out to fan the flames of conflict and incite hatred toward entire groups of people without so much as looking or giving any benefit of the doubt. I start from a position of giving the benefit of the doubt, but if that doesn't pan out, then I do not have any problem with harsh remedies. I'll gladly welcome outsiders who are good and decent folks, but the ones whose stunts have been the subject of recent discussion? No. Just get rid of them and there is no reason to care one whit what happens to them afterward, because they earned it by their actions.

I´d rather use tools that don´t require shitting all over our own ideals. Like sentencing these assholes like you would sentence every other asshole who did something like that.

[Elfdart]

I didn't realize Donald Trump (or maybe Pat Condell) had hijacked Edi's account.

[Edi]

According to the law they can be kicked out if they commit a crime that is worth 3 years in prison. Most of the crimes in Cologne probably do not fit this bill. And even then it can be difficult. So unless you propose disasembling equality before the law there is probably no way to kick most of these people out.
In cases where they can be thrown out I´d still put them in prison first and throw them out later. It would be too easy to re enter the country with a different name.

Sure you can kick people out if they fail to fulfill the asylum criteria. It just becomes a matter of whether you can muster the political will to do so. And especially the ones who get criminal convictions.

Equality before the law is one of the things that makes Europe good. If we disasemble it we lose.

By all means give them a hearing according to the law. The basics of it all are the same for everyone and that does not and should not change, but the outcomes can be different for those who are not citizens. Non-citizens can be tossed out on their ear if sufficient conditions are fulfilled, and most of those conditions are set by legislation. Legislation that is not constitutional level, so it can be changed to more strict criteria where it is necessary to do so.

I´d rather use tools that don´t require shitting all over our own ideals. Like sentencing these assholes like you would sentence every other asshole who did something like that.

Sure, that works for me. And then make sure that those records are used to the full extent when assessing their eligibility for asylum and other things. The thing about situations like that infamous Kölner New Year's Eve is that it is utterly impossible to establish order without breaking some heads, which is what should have been done and without any remorse.

I expect that as soon as there is actual law enforcement against the kind of events that happened in Köln and Hamburg that involves the use of force, there will be no shortage of similar fuckwittery to defend the perps. According to several news reports, some of the sexual harassers in Köln actually taunted the police about how they can't do anything because the offenders were from Syria.

These asshats need a heavy dose of state sanctioned use of force applied to them, along with the message that they should be glad it is the state applying it according to the law, rather than the populace in general applying it according to their sense of justice. The former has constraints, while the latter tends to result in dead bodies, and far too often indiscriminately.

[Edi]

I didn't realize Donald Trump (or maybe Pat Condell) had hijacked Edi's account.

Note that I make a clear distinction between law abiding, civilized newcomers and the ones engaged in crimes ala Köln.

I welcome the former group and that kind of people are needed for several different reasons.

The latter sort? I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire. I have a very harsh opinion of them and their behavior and I do not need to tolerate it, understand it or even give them any consideration beyond the absolute minimum required by law.

It comes down to trying kindness and friendship first, but carrying the big stick just in case and not feeling any remorse if you have to swing it. If you have a problem with that, knock yourself out. I don't care.

[Guardsman Bass]

This is definitely starting to seem like Tahrir Square-style behavior: relatively large, organized groups of men (more impunity), with coordinated sexual assault plans. It might actually be worse if they find no connection in planning between the offending groups in different cities, since that means you've got this type of shit popping up wherever these assholes can get together and swarm women in public.

They don't need to bludgeon them, but they do need to slam the law down hard on as many of the participants as possible (including deportation). Otherwise, you'll probably see smaller versions of this popping up again in the near future.

[salm]

Sure you can kick people out if they fail to fulfill the asylum criteria. It just becomes a matter of whether you can muster the political will to do so. And especially the ones who get criminal convictions.

Yes, you can. We already have laws for that. I just doubt that the severty of the crimes in Cologne are within the range of these laws. Perhaps I´m wrong.

By all means give them a hearing according to the law. The basics of it all are the same for everyone and that does not and should not change, but the outcomes can be different for those who are not citizens. Non-citizens can be tossed out on their ear if sufficient conditions are fulfilled, and most of those conditions are set by legislation. Legislation that is not constitutional level, so it can be changed to more strict criteria where it is necessary to do so.

I´m fine with the status quo. Making laws harsher requires to put a lot of thought into it. It is too early to decide if we want that. Emotions are still too high which makes now the worst time to decide about this matter.

Sure, that works for me. And then make sure that those records are used to the full extent when assessing their eligibility for asylum and other things. The thing about situations like that infamous Kölner New Year's Eve is that it is utterly impossible to establish order without breaking some heads, which is what should have been done and without any remorse.

Well, the law states that asylum can be denied if you haven´t been granted asylum yet and commit a crime worth one year in prison.
However, even if asylum is not granted it is still often not possible to deport people who would be in immediate danger if you deported them. If you want to change the latter you´ll have to take it up with the Geneva conventions relating to the Status of Refugees.

I expect that as soon as there is actual law enforcement against the kind of events that happened in Köln and Hamburg that involves the use of force, there will be no shortage of similar fuckwittery to defend the perps. According to several news reports, some of the sexual harassers in Köln actually taunted the police about how they can't do anything because the offenders were from Syria.

What do you mean with "similar fuckwittery"? Nobody is defending these people.

These asshats need a heavy dose of state sanctioned use of force applied to them, along with the message that they should be glad it is the state applying it according to the law, rather than the populace in general applying it according to their sense of justice. The former has constraints, while the latter tends to result in dead bodies, and far too often indiscriminately.

Oh, the populace is applying more than enough force allready. Refugee homes go up in flames all the time.

[Elfdart]

There was a very similar incident in New York during the Puerto Rico Day Parade back in 2000. Gangs of young hooligans were caught on video as they robbed and molested dozens of girls and women in the crowd -as well as passersby (like a few British tourists and French newlywed). Now, in spite of the fact that the very idea of dark-skinned men attacking women (especially white women) is always a sure way to gin up white rage up to and including lynchings and pogroms in the land of the not-so-free; and in spite of the fact that the mayor and police chiefs were a bunch of racist, fascist thugs who were always clutching for handy excuses to justify police brutality against the darkies, neither Benito Giuliani nor his henchmen reacted to the attacks with the kind of hysteria shown by commentators from such oh-so-civilized countries of western and northern Europe (including a few in this thread who ought to know better). They took disciplinary action against police officers who shirked their duty and used videos and witness statements taken at the scene to prosecute the offenders and send the ones convicted in court to jail.

The only people demanding more than the lawful response were the usual suspects: white supremacists and gun nuts.

[ray245]

There was a very similar incident in New York during the Puerto Rico Day Parade back in 2000. Gangs of young hooligans were caught on video as they robbed and molested dozens of girls and women in the crowd -as well as passersby (like a few British tourists and French newlywed). Now, in spite of the fact that the very idea of dark-skinned men attacking women (especially white women) is always a sure way to gin up white rage up to and including lynchings and pogroms in the land of the not-so-free; and in spite of the fact that the mayor and police chiefs were a bunch of racist, fascist thugs who were always clutching for handy excuses to justify police brutality against the darkies, neither Benito Giuliani nor his henchmen reacted to the attacks with the kind of hysteria shown by commentators from such oh-so-civilized countries of western and northern Europe (including a few in this thread who ought to know better). They took disciplinary action against police officers who shirked their duty and used videos and witness statements taken at the scene to prosecute the offenders and send the ones convicted in court to jail.

The only people demanding more than the lawful response were the usual suspects: white supremacists and gun nuts.

Because in this is case there are major difference, one which include teaching refugees from countries with less sexual equality about the importance of not committing sexual harrassment.

Right now, there is a problem of some refugees thinking they are special snowflakes because they've been treated by many who welcomed them as special snowflakes. The left lack of desire to criticise some horrible cultural norms from Syria/Iraq is only making the issue worse. Basically, anyone who criticise the few bad apples among the refugees are suddenly right-wing xenophobes.

[madd0ct0r]

But Ray, this isn't a cultural norm from Syria. It's people being twats, and while I disagree with edi's internet tough guy act, he's right that such behaviour is not tolerated there either. Let them feel the weight of a German law book as for anyone who acts like that.

[Ralin]

But Ray, this isn't a cultural norm from Syria. It's people being twats, and while I disagree with edi's internet tough guy act, he's right that such behaviour is not tolerated there either. Let them feel the weight of a German law book as for anyone who acts like that.

Yeah, this. There's a pretty big gulf between a misogynistic culture without a tradition of gender equality and one where rape gangs having rape orgies in the middle of a city is considered normal and okay. Treat them like the criminals that they are and if that doesn't work then maybe we can talk about the special threat of refugee-driven violent crime.

[cosmicalstorm]

The police knew most of the attackers were Syrian refugees but decided to censor it because of the politically sensitive nature of the subject, Deutshe Welle has it:

(My bolding)

Reports: asylum seekers among Cologne attacks suspects

Police identified some suspects who harassed women in Cologne on New Year's Eve as asylum seekers, media reports say. City police reportedly did not want to publicize this because of its "politically awkward" nature.

City authorities identified some suspects in the Cologne New Year's Eve attacks as asylum seekers from Syria, detaining or questioning some of them, according to reports by local newspaper "Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger" and national daily "Die Welt," which published an online preview of investigations by its "Welt am Sonntag" Sunday paper.

According to the newspapers' reports, citing officers on duty on New Year's Eve, officials checked the IDs of at least 100 people present at Cologne's central station on December 31 after their behavior became conspicuous. Seventy-one people were identified, 11 people were remanded into custody and 32 criminal complaints were registered, according to the Welt am Sonntag (WamS) report.

"There were, quite to the contrary of what was said publicly, identity checks on numerous people," the WamS quoted an unnamed officer as saying. "Most of them were recently-arrived asylum seekers."

The first internal police report on the event - a so-called "wichtige Ereignis Meldung" ("important event announcement") - spoke of a crowd mainly of "North African and Arab" origin. According to the Kölner Stadt-anzeiger, the officer leading the team at the station wanted the report to include mention of the Syrians and asylum seekers, but the senior officer writing the "WE-Meldung" decided not to, saying it would be "politically awkward."

It is still unclear whether the same persons were involved in the assaults.

Offenders were after 'sexual amusement'

WamS also received information contradicting another official statement by the city police, which said the main intention of the men in Cologne was to steal from passengers and that assault was secondary. However, "what actually happened was the exact opposite," a police officer said on condition of anonymity.

"For the mostly Arabic offenders, sexual assault was the priority, or, to express it from their point of view, their sexual amusement was thepriority. A group of men would encircle a female victim, close the loop, and then start groping the woman," WamS quoted the officer as saying.

The deputy chief of the trade union for police employees (the GdP), Ernst Walter, suggested that the Cologne police's mishandling of the case could cost city police chief Wolfgang Albers his job: "I'm asking myself this," Walter said. "How could the police publish a message on January 1, saying that New Year's celebrations had been peaceful?"

"All these shocking incidents" had become known the same night, he said, adding that officers from the federal police were trying to help women and were worried that "people could have even died."

The media reports still largely contradict Cologne police's official account of events, which say that 16 possible suspects have so far been identified, with that group "to the largest extent" hailing from North Africa.

The state's interior minister, Ralf Jäger, has already ordered a first full formal report on the incident, which is due for submission on Monday. When asked for a comment by the Kölner Stadt-Anzeiger local paper, police referred the reporters to the impending formal report, saying they would neither confirm nor deny the report.

Nearly 1,000 men are reported to have divided themselves into smaller groups and robbed and sexually harassed women at Cologne's central station on New Year's Eve. Similar incidents occurred on a far smaller scale in Hamburg and Stuttgart.

mg/msh (AFP, dpa, Reuters)

http://www.dw.com/en/reports-asylum-see ... a-18966406

[ray245]

But Ray, this isn't a cultural norm from Syria. It's people being twats, and while I disagree with edi's internet tough guy act, he's right that such behaviour is not tolerated there either. Let them feel the weight of a German law book as for anyone who acts like that.

I'm not saying it's a cultural norm in Syria and Iraq to assault women so publicly. I don't think there is any culture that would tolerate such an act.

However, things like gender discrimination can have a massive impact on the investigation of such crime in those areas. An environment that is less willingly to take action or listen to women who have been sexually assaulted creates an environment where those men feel confident in getting away from the law.

Not acknowledging that cultures in certain regions tolerate a greater degree of abuse is only going to make any intergration efforts worse. The more you try and overly protect them, the more anger you will generate among the moderates.

[cosmicalstorm]

My two cents:
1. Deal with this very decisively now.
2. Turn the other cheek, the silk gloves of Green Party "understanding" and let this repeat.

If option 2 is picked by police/politicians there will be hell to pay in the next elections.
Anarchy or the impression of it is perfect breeding grounds for far right movements.
I lurk a couple far right Euro forums now and they are talking about a Waterbreaker (dunno a good english term) effect here, hands are being rubbed, political pre-cum dripping.