Woman in FL arrested for living off the grid

[Simon_Jester]

Young people can be stupidly stubborn too, sometimes with an added side-order of political idealism.

[Rogue 9]

I don't know about Florida, but at least here the water utility calculates your sewage charge based on your water use; the sewage isn't metered. So if you use X amount of water, you pay Y amount for sewage. If you're filling a pool or something similar that pumps a lot of water that isn't going right back to the sewage system, you can call them and get the sewage bill waived for a few hours, but there's no separate sewage bill. If they use the same system, then disconnecting the municipal water but continuing to use the sewer leaves no way for them to bill for the latter.

[NoXion]

If that's the case, what would be stopping them from setting up a regular charge based on the water/sewage usage of a similar kind of household in the area?

[whackadoodle]

If that's the case, what would be stopping them from setting up a regular charge based on the water/sewage usage of a similar kind of household in the area?

Because setting up a new accounting system for one ( or just a few assholes people ) is no small feat. Long story short, I had to set up a utility billing system for a trailer park that my employer purchased. Wasn't simple. The park had one primary meter, from which all water was distributed to each trailer's meter. The Municipality in Question charges for both water and sewage within the same stated rate ( X microcents for water, less for sewage ).
For my time, and I am not an accountant ( though I can pass as one via a test ), my employer gained a billing system for utilities that has passed muster.
How much would it cost for the local water authority, which does not employ accountants, or engage with them on the casual level, to create a money-system that would allow her to flush her shit down the community drain?

[Elheru Aran]

If that's the case, what would be stopping them from setting up a regular charge based on the water/sewage usage of a similar kind of household in the area?

Because setting up a new accounting system for one ( or just a few assholes people ) is no small feat. Long story short, I had to set up a utility billing system for a trailer park that my employer purchased. Wasn't simple. The park had one primary meter, from which all water was distributed to each trailer's meter. The Municipality in Question charges for both water and sewage within the same stated rate ( X microcents for water, less for sewage ).
For my time, and I am not an accountant ( though I can pass as one via a test ), my employer gained a billing system for utilities that has passed muster.
How much would it cost for the local water authority, which does not employ accountants, or engage with them on the casual level, to create a money-system that would allow her to flush her shit down the community drain?

I imagine that even a small local water authority would have at least someone capable of doing the necessary math on board. There are almost certainly odd situations that come up; say someone springs a leak and they want their bill adjusted, so they have to work that out. At the very least, they probably have a bookkeeper or accounting firm that they hire when necessary.

That said, for individual citizens it may not be worth the cost to the water company. That's why I suggested earlier that going 'off the grid' could be accommodated by following certain minimum regulations and paying a fee, which would compensate for the extra math. In fact, certain rate situations could be computed ahead of time and applied as required. Say someone wants to use sewer but not water, or someone wants water but not sewer (because they have their own septic or whatever)... just plug in the necessary rate for that account and roll with it.

[whackadoodle]

If that's the case, what would be stopping them from setting up a regular charge based on the water/sewage usage of a similar kind of household in the area?

Because setting up a new accounting system for one ( or just a few assholes people ) is no small feat. Long story short, I had to set up a utility billing system for a trailer park that my employer purchased. Wasn't simple. The park had one primary meter, from which all water was distributed to each trailer's meter. The Municipality in Question charges for both water and sewage within the same stated rate ( X microcents for water, less for sewage ).
For my time, and I am not an accountant ( though I can pass as one via a test ), my employer gained a billing system for utilities that has passed muster.
How much would it cost for the local water authority, which does not employ accountants, or engage with them on the casual level, to create a money-system that would allow her to flush her shit down the community drain?

I imagine that even a small local water authority would have at least someone capable of doing the necessary math on board. There are almost certainly odd situations that come up; say someone springs a leak and they want their bill adjusted, so they have to work that out. At the very least, they probably have a bookkeeper or accounting firm that they hire when necessary.

That said, for individual citizens it may not be worth the cost to the water company. That's why I suggested earlier that going 'off the grid' could be accommodated by following certain minimum regulations and paying a fee, which would compensate for the extra math. In fact, certain rate situations could be computed ahead of time and applied as required. Say someone wants to use sewer but not water, or someone wants water but not sewer (because they have their own septic or whatever)... just plug in the necessary rate for that account and roll with it.

You suggest a great deal. At the end of the day, the few employees of any given municipal water system want to go home at the end of the day without having to put up with said woman's worthless shit. You can't reasonably meter shit - it will shitcrete any meter you put in front of it. Charge her a flat rate? Every franchise Taco Bell and otherwise restaurant owner will sue said city into allowing them to dump their grease directly into the sewage system, un-metered, for said flat fee. No; she really wants to get off the grid? Then she sells her urban/suburban place she lives in, buys a cheaper rural parcel, and goes at it.

[Zixinus]

What if she cannot go away because she is tied to the city trough work/family?

[Broomstick]

Then she can't legally live off the grid.

I'm sorry, in life there are trade-offs. If you don't have the resources to pick up and move wherever you want you have to deal with the situation where you are.

[Lagmonster]

It's harder to explain to young people, but occasionally the answer from life/society really is "No, fuck you."

[NoXion]

You suggest a great deal. At the end of the day, the few employees of any given municipal water system want to go home at the end of the day without having to put up with said woman's worthless shit. You can't reasonably meter shit - it will shitcrete any meter you put in front of it. Charge her a flat rate? Every franchise Taco Bell and otherwise restaurant owner will sue said city into allowing them to dump their grease directly into the sewage system, un-metered, for said flat fee. No; she really wants to get off the grid? Then she sells her urban/suburban place she lives in, buys a cheaper rural parcel, and goes at it.

So some business will throw a legal temper tantrum if this woman and the municipal water system dare to come to a mutually agreeable arrangement? And the problem is supposedly with the woman rather than officially sanctioned barratry?

It's harder to explain to young people, but occasionally the answer from life/society really is "No, fuck you."

Unless you're a business. Then you get to throw your weight around with lawsuits because profits are more important than people.

[Irbis]

And the problem is supposedly with the woman rather than officially sanctioned barratry?

Yes. Because what she whines about might not even be technically possible. What if functioning sewage system in the area needs to be connected to running water to even work? Or what stops her from dumping waste toxic crap for anyone with a bribe once she gets flats rate?

You know, call your phone company and ask them if they can only bill you for people talking to you, you're fine with them not transmitting things you're saying on your end. Inform us what the reply was once everyone on the other side stopped dying of laughter?

[Vendetta]

You know, call your phone company and ask them if they can only bill you for people talking to you, you're fine with them not transmitting things you're saying on your end. Inform us what the reply was once everyone on the other side stopped dying of laughter?

Y'know, that's probably a bad example given that most phone companies probably do offer an outgoing call barring service (so you would only pay line rental).

Hell, on BT here in the UK you can just type something into your handset and it turns on outgoing call barring.

[Zixinus]

A question: How do we know what this woman means by "living off the grid"? Is this a woman who carefully worked out a fully-functioning system complete with her own waste recycling or disposal system? Or someone who is out of money, has slowly reduced her home to a slum and is using the words "living off the grid" to dodge criticism until now? Or somewhere between?

I'm kind of betting that this is partially picked up because the more green-oriented people (many of whom want to reduce their dependency on the grid or want to get off of it) are upset that a city is forcing someone to be connected to it?

Then she can't legally live off the grid.

I'm sorry, in life there are trade-offs. If you don't have the resources to pick up and move wherever you want you have to deal with the situation where you are.

I figured that was the answer, I was mostly just asking to further the argument: what if she wants to live off the grid for good reasons and does not want to pay for services she does not use? Saying "she should just go somewhere else" isn't really a good answer in that case.

[Borgholio]

I figured that was the answer, I was mostly just asking to further the argument: what if she wants to live off the grid for good reasons and does not want to pay for services she does not use? Saying "she should just go somewhere else" isn't really a good answer in that case.

What good reason would she have for living off the grid when her house is right in the middle of it? Sure using solar power and rainwater is a good idea both for conservation and for emergencies, but why would she want to fully cut all connection to the city? If she's not using any water she's not going to really pay anything at all anyways so really where's the harm in just setting up an account so she can be compliant with the laws that the rest of the city already obey?

[madd0ct0r]

unless the sewage/water rate is a flat fee every month for connection.

[Borgholio]

I don't get charged flat rate for anything except garbage service. Water and electricity are on a per-use basis.

[SCRawl]

I don't get charged flat rate for anything except garbage service. Water and electricity are on a per-use basis.

The same is true for me, but it was not always so. In my part of the world, twentyish years ago water meters were relatively rare, and most homes had a flat rate for water (and therefore for sewage). Many homeowners would resist installation of water meters, so the city just kept increasing that flat rate until it became a better deal to just get the damn meter installed.

Anyways, this seems to be a case where the phrase "You can't have it" should be used. If you want to operate a home in the city, or the suburbs, where basic sanitation is expected and required, then you have to have (at minimum) your waste treated, and that means paying for the right to use the sanitary sewer, the same as everyone else does. If you don't want to do this, then you can sell and move. If you want it both ways *you can't have it both ways*.

[Broomstick]

I don't get charged flat rate for anything except garbage service. Water and electricity are on a per-use basis.

It varies from place to place - in my area, people with "city water" pay a connection fee + usage per unit, so if you used no water you'd still pay the connection fee, which is pretty minimal. Then again, if you used a well or rainwater under such a system you'd actually have sewer access for a minimal fee... but that's how my area is set up. Obviously, this does not apply everywhere.

On the other hand, we don't have any garbage service. You have to either haul your own or contract with a private service. That causes problems with people who either don't want to pay or are too poor.

[Starglider]

Fuck that bitch, throw her in a looney bin, burn the house down, rebuild.

You are personally volunteering to vigilante rape her, imprison her and commit arson because you think she's ignoring sanitation regulations? You are the rape culture, and apparently the arson culture and prison culture as well.


( For most posters this would be pendanty, but Flagg's constant hyper-liberal ranting and demonisation of gamergaters etc when they spout this crap makes calling him on his hypocrisy mandatory. )