More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

Spencer Ackerman, Wired wrote:In the years after 9/11, the CIA ran a worldwide program to hold and interrogate suspected members of al-Qaida, sometimes brutally. It wasn’t alone: The agency had literally dozens of partners that helped in ways large and small. Only it’s never been clear just how many nations enabled CIA capture and torture; cooperated with it; or carried it out on behalf of the U.S. — until now.

A new report from the Open Society Foundation details the CIA’s effort to outsource torture since 9/11 in excruciating detail. Known as “extraordinary rendition,” the practice concerns taking detainees to and from U.S. custody without a legal process — think of it like an off-the-books extradition — and often entailed handing detainees over to countries that practiced torture. The Open Society Foundation found that 136 people went through the post-9/11 extraordinary rendition, and 54 countries were complicit in it.

Some were official U.S. adversaries, like Iran and Syria, brought together with the CIA by the shared interest of combating terrorism. “By engaging in torture and other abuses associated with secret detention and extraordinary rendition,” writes chief Open Society Foundation investigator Amrit Singh in a report released early Tuesday, “the U.S. government violated domestic and international law, thereby diminishing its moral standing and eroding support for its counterterrorism efforts worldwide as these abuses came to light.”

Iran didn’t do any torturing on behalf of the CIA. Instead, it quietly transferred at least 15 of its own detainees to Afghan custody in March 2002. Six of those found their way into the CIA’s secret prisons. “Because the hand-over happened soon after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan,” Singh writes, “Iran was aware that the United States would have effective control over any detainees handed over to Afghan authorities.” At least one of those detainees, Tawfik al-Bihani, ended up at Guantanamo Bay, where his official file makes no mention of his time with the CIA.

Iran’s proxy Syria did torture on behalf of the United States. The most famous case involves Maher Arar, a Canadian citizen snatched in 2002 by the U.S. at John F. Kennedy International Airport before the CIA sent him to Syria under the mistaken impression he was a terrorist. In Syrian custody, Arar was “imprisoned for more than ten months in a tiny grave-like cell, beaten with cables, and threatened with electric shocks by the Syrian government,” Singh writes.


But it wasn’t just Arar. At least seven others were rendered to Syria. Among their destinations: a prison in west Damascus called the Palestine Branch, which features an area called “the Grave,” comprised of “individual cells that were roughly the size of coffins.” Syrian intelligence reportedly uses something called a “German Chair” to “stretch the spine.” These days the Obama administration prefers to call for Syrian dictator Bashar Assad, the murderer of over 60,000 Syrians, to step down.

Many, many other countries were complicit in the renditions. For a month, Zimbabwe hosted five CIA detainees seized from Malawi in June 2003 before they were released in Sudan. Turkey, a NATO ally, allowed a plane operated by Richmor Aviation, which has been linked to CIA renditions, to refuel in Adana in 2002 and gave an Iraqi terrorist suspect to the CIA in 2006. Lots of countries played host to CIA rendition flights, including Sri Lanka, Thailand, Afghanistan, Belgium and Azerbaijan. Italy let the plane carrying Arar refuel. Under Muammar Gadhafi, Libya was an eager participant in the CIA’s rendition scheme — and the Open Society Foundation sifted through documents found after Gadhafi fell to discover that Hong Kong helped shuttle a detainee named Abu Munthir to the Libyan regime.

The full 54 countries that aided in post-9/11 renditions: Afghanistan, Albania, Algeria, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belgium, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Canada, Croatia, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Finland, Gambia, Georgia, Germany, Greece, Hong Kong, Iceland, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Italy, Jordan, Kenya, Libya, Lithuania, Macedonia, Malawi, Malaysia, Mauritania, Morocco, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Syria, Thailand, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Uzbekistan, Yemen, and Zimbabwe. The Open Society Foundation doesn’t rule out additional ones being involved that it has yet to discover.

Singh and the Open Society Foundation don’t presume that the CIA is out of the extraordinary renditions game under Obama. Danger Room pal Jeremy Scahill recently toured a prison in Somalia that the CIA uses. While Obama issued an executive order in 2009 to get the CIA out of the detentions business, the order “did not apply to facilities used for short term, transitory detention.” The Obama administration says it won’t transfer detainees to countries without a pledge from a host government not to torture them — but Syria’s Assad made exactly that pledge to the U.S. before torturing Maher Arar.

Much of this is likely to be contained in the Senate intelligence committee’s recent report into CIA torture. It’s unclear when, if ever, that report will be declassified. But the Open Society Foundation’s study into renditions comes right as Obama aide John Brennan — already under pressure to clarify his role, if any, in post-9/11 torture — is about to testify to the panel ahead of becoming CIA director. It remains to be seen if the Senate committee will ask Brennan to clarify if the CIA still practices extraordinary rendition, along with its old friends.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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Austria helped? How? By only lodging a formal protest when US airplanes crossed our airspace with detainees, while lying about the true cargo and intentions? Which they did because we denied them access to our airspace when they asked for permission to do that?

This article is crap.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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Yeah, just saying that these countries "aided" in anything doesn't amount for much, because we already know the US hold enormous influence over the world.

Besides, if any CIA operative entrusted a job to the Greek NIS, then he would deserve anything that happened as a result. :lol:
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

LaCroix wrote:Austria helped? How? By only lodging a formal protest when US airplanes crossed our airspace with detainees, while lying about the true cargo and intentions? Which they did because we denied them access to our airspace when they asked for permission to do that?

This article is crap.
Yeah, refueling a plane the cargo of which is unknown is a far cry from helping them torture someone. So, the full report needs reading.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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Nevertheless, the article is valuable in showing the true scope of the rendition program, including showing how eager the US was to cooperate with dictatorships it currently condemns.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

Post by Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba »

LaCroix wrote:Austria helped? How? By only lodging a formal protest when US airplanes crossed our airspace with detainees, while lying about the true cargo and intentions? Which they did because we denied them access to our airspace when they asked for permission to do that?

This article is crap.
No. The primary concern seems to be an Austrian resident, Omer Masaad Behari, whose rendition and interrogation Austrian authorities, according to victim testimony, seem to have abetted or colluded in. From the OSF report:
5. Austria
Austria permitted the use of its airspace for flights associated with CIA extraordinary rendition, and may have assisted with the apprehension of an Austrian resident extraordinary rendition victim. According to a 2007 European Parliament report, two Austrian residents were the subject of extraordinary rendition operations, and the Austrian government may have cooperated with the United States and Jordan with respect to one case. A working
document appended to the European Parliament report notes that Austria provided airspace for flights associated with CIA extraordinary rendition operations. The 2007 European Parliament report identified Austria among other member
states that may have colluded in CIA extraordinary rendition operations. The report condemned the abductions of Austrian residents Masaad Omer Behari (a Sudanese national) and Gamal al-Menshawi (an Egyptian national). Behari, who had
been watched for a long time by the Austrian secret services, was seized at Amman airport on January 12, 2003, while returning to Vienna from Sudan, and later “illegally secretly detained in a prison close to Amman run by the Jordan General Intelligence Department, without trial or legal assistance, and tortured and ill-treated there until 8 April 2003, when he was released without charge.” See the detainee list in Section IV. The report “deplore[d] the fact that, according to Behari’s testimony, there may have been cooperation between the US, Austrian and Jordanian authorities in respect of his case.” Gamal al-Menshawi was arrested at Amman airport in February 2003 while traveling to Mecca. He was subsequently brought
to Egypt and “secretly detained until 2005 without trial or legal rights.” It is not, however, established whether the CIA was involved in his case. Flights reportedly associated with CIA extraordinary rendition operations also used Austrian airspace. In January 2003, Austrian fighter jets intercepted a CIA affiliated plane, a Hercules C130 operated by Tepper Aviation with the tail-marking N8183J, in Austrian airspace after it filed a suspicious “civilian” flight plan from the Frankfurt U.S. military air base to Azerbaijan. According to Austrian Air Force commander Erich Wolf, the Austrian Armed Forces dispatched fighter jets to make contact with the airplane, but did not suspect anything wrong at the time and did not lodge a diplomatic complaint. He added that since then, however,
Austrian authorities had found evidence suggesting that the flight was transporting detainees. The U.S. embassy assured the Austrians that the plane was not connected with the U.S. government, but corporate records show that the CIA owned the plane. In addition, flight N368CE, associated with CIA extraordinary rendition operations, made a stopover in Austria.
There are no known judicial cases or investigations in Austria regarding its participation in CIA secret detention and extraordinary rendition operations. The European Parliament has urged Austria to conduct an inquiry into the state’s role in the overseas
transfers of Behari and al-Menshawi, but no investigation has been initiated. After the disclosure that a U.S. extraordinary rendition flight had crossed Austrian airspace, some members of the Austrian parliament called for the Austrian National Security Council to determine whether Austria’s airspace had been violated. In 2006, Rudolf Gollia, a spokesman for the Austrian Interior Ministry stated, “ince the alleged abductions [of Behari and al-Menshawi] did not take place on Austrian soil, in an Austrian airplane or on an Austrian ship, we see no need for action.”
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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I hate the outsourcing mentality. This could have been good...no, decent...no, HONEST(still works!) Americans doing this labor. That money would have been circulating in our economy, not to mention the wasted bribe money.


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But no really. CIA up to shady horrible shit? I dont think they care that the Cold War is over. I doubt it honestly mattered to them besides justification to exist. See this? THIS is why Americans generally distrust the govt. Because this is the kind of "more govt" that always gets funded.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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Nieztchean Uber-Amoeba wrote:
LaCroix wrote:Austria helped? How? By only lodging a formal protest when US airplanes crossed our airspace with detainees, while lying about the true cargo and intentions? Which they did because we denied them access to our airspace when they asked for permission to do that?

This article is crap.
No. The primary concern seems to be an Austrian resident, Omer Masaad Behari, whose rendition and interrogation Austrian authorities, according to victim testimony, seem to have abetted or colluded in. From the OSF report:
5. Austria
Austria permitted the use of its airspace for flights associated with CIA extraordinary rendition, and may have assisted with the apprehension of an Austrian resident extraordinary rendition victim. According to a 2007 European Parliament report, two Austrian residents were the subject of extraordinary rendition operations, and the Austrian government may have cooperated with the United States and Jordan with respect to one case. A working
document appended to the European Parliament report notes that Austria provided airspace for flights associated with CIA extraordinary rendition operations. The 2007 European Parliament report identified Austria among other member
states that may have colluded in CIA extraordinary rendition operations. The report condemned the abductions of Austrian residents Masaad Omer Behari (a Sudanese national) and Gamal al-Menshawi (an Egyptian national). Behari, who had
been watched for a long time by the Austrian secret services, was seized at Amman airport on January 12, 2003, while returning to Vienna from Sudan, and later “illegally secretly detained in a prison close to Amman run by the Jordan General Intelligence Department, without trial or legal assistance, and tortured and ill-treated there until 8 April 2003, when he was released without charge.” See the detainee list in Section IV. The report “deplore[d] the fact that, according to Behari’s testimony, there may have been cooperation between the US, Austrian and Jordanian authorities in respect of his case.” Gamal al-Menshawi was arrested at Amman airport in February 2003 while traveling to Mecca. He was subsequently brought
to Egypt and “secretly detained until 2005 without trial or legal rights.” It is not, however, established whether the CIA was involved in his case. Flights reportedly associated with CIA extraordinary rendition operations also used Austrian airspace. In January 2003, Austrian fighter jets intercepted a CIA affiliated plane, a Hercules C130 operated by Tepper Aviation with the tail-marking N8183J, in Austrian airspace after it filed a suspicious “civilian” flight plan from the Frankfurt U.S. military air base to Azerbaijan. According to Austrian Air Force commander Erich Wolf, the Austrian Armed Forces dispatched fighter jets to make contact with the airplane, but did not suspect anything wrong at the time and did not lodge a diplomatic complaint. He added that since then, however,
Austrian authorities had found evidence suggesting that the flight was transporting detainees. The U.S. embassy assured the Austrians that the plane was not connected with the U.S. government, but corporate records show that the CIA owned the plane. In addition, flight N368CE, associated with CIA extraordinary rendition operations, made a stopover in Austria.
There are no known judicial cases or investigations in Austria regarding its participation in CIA secret detention and extraordinary rendition operations. The European Parliament has urged Austria to conduct an inquiry into the state’s role in the overseas
transfers of Behari and al-Menshawi, but no investigation has been initiated. After the disclosure that a U.S. extraordinary rendition flight had crossed Austrian airspace, some members of the Austrian parliament called for the Austrian National Security Council to determine whether Austria’s airspace had been violated. In 2006, Rudolf Gollia, a spokesman for the Austrian Interior Ministry stated, “ince the alleged abductions [of Behari and al-Menshawi] did not take place on Austrian soil, in an Austrian airplane or on an Austrian ship, we see no need for action.”


So we did not force a plane to land on suspicion alone, but found out later that our suspicion would have been right - guilty.
We did not do anything against two abductions that took place in Amman - guilty.
We MIGHT have cooperated, instead of just beeing too trusting and getting tricked for it - guilty.

By that reasoning, that list of states should have 196 entries.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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LaCroix wrote:Austria helped? How?
Gee, let's look at that:
There are no known judicial cases or investigations in Austria regarding its participation in CIA secret detention and extraordinary rendition operations. The European Parliament has urged Austria to conduct an inquiry into the state’s role in the overseas
No public investigation, not even attempt at it, meaning Austrian authorities could have been quietly knee deep in the shady CIA shit, but no, as long as someone didn't hear anything, nothing happened, right? :roll:

To give one example I have been following, Poland did very half-hearted investigation, but it looks pretty much given our PM, President, and people in charge of intelligence services pretty much peed on our constitution and wiped their arse with human rights charters, yet nothing is being done about that, in exceedingly slow manner. That despite two different opposition parties taking power since then - instead of nailing their political opponents and possibly sending them to jail, both PMs since then pretend it's raining, as neither is willing take his tongue out of US behind. Seriously, I can count politicians from any party that still dare to ask inconvenient questions on fingers of one hand.

Meanwhile, same people who hide their heads in sand over the issue act very offended Bigelow's movie dared to move supposed CIA prison location from unknown village deep in the woods (where is actually was) to big city known internationally. Gee, it's not like they had only 8 years to do actual, honest investigation clearing our image :banghead:
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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So much for innocent until proven guilty...

What exactly should Austria investigate?

The one C130 in question had civilian registration and colors - no false flight plan - no violation - no investigation. Hell, we even inquired about that flight, and were told it was not a CIA flight. How should we investigate if they lied to us? Ask again?
There might have been another airplane that might have transported a maybe kidnapped person we know nothing about, which has stopped for refueling, but we only heard about it years later. No grounds for an investigation.
Nobody was kidnapped in Austria (that happened in AMMAN) - no grounds for an investigation. That needs to be investigated in Jordan.
The two people that got kidnapped weren't Austrian nationals - no grounds for an investigation. Sudan and Egypt have to take care of this.

There simply is nothing to investigate.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

Post by K. A. Pital »

In case of human kidnapping and trafficking on civilian flights there's not much authorities can do. Sure, they can punish the flight controllers - but would it be right?

Would it not make more sense to punish the Great America for being lying human traffickers, no? *sigh* Though I guess that has even less of a chance of happening than punishing some low-level guy who allowed the plane to refuel or pass.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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What about all that sex slavery human trafficking in Eastern Europe?
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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You HAVE to let planes refuel, anyhow. It's in international law. You can however force civilian planes traversing your territory to stop and land for inspection, but I'm sure if anyone actually did that, the guy would be sedated and in a relatively comfortable seat with just a handcuff, and there would be five hundred pages of pseudolegalese demonstrating that his transfer was legal and reviewed by some judiciary authority, and how would you know better as a random customs officer? Then the time for holding the airplane under international law would pass, and you would let them take off.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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Thanas wrote:Nevertheless, the article is valuable in showing the true scope of the rendition program, including showing how eager the US was to cooperate with dictatorships it currently condemns.
The US government has always been eager to cooperate with nations it would otherwise consider loathsome enemies in order to achieve a particular goal. See cooperation with Stalin and the commie-filled USSR vs. the Axis powers during WWII for another example, one of the more overt ones, but I'm sure any historian could come up with plenty of other examples.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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I don’t think most people realize the scale of it this time though, that's the shocking thing.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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Dominarch's Hope wrote:What about all that sex slavery human trafficking in Eastern Europe?
The Austrians, in this case, do what they can. In fact, all of the countries involved with the exception of the particularly loathsome ones do. For fuck's sake, Houston Texas has the same problem. It is a hub for sex slaves trafficked from latin america and sex slaves in the form of kidnapped american children.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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Dominarch's Hope wrote:What about all that sex slavery human trafficking in Eastern Europe?
You're right, those things are directly comparable.

What does that say about America?
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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Nothing good about the govt. Its still amazes me that people still think that the American populace should be disarmed and that only our govt should have guns etc etc. Especially when this shit is thrown up. It still amazes me that some people think we should trust our govt period.

Of course, that we have that attitude and its incredibly prevalent, says a lot of bad things too. :(
Alyrium Denryle wrote:
Dominarch's Hope wrote:What about all that sex slavery human trafficking in Eastern Europe?
The Austrians, in this case, do what they can. In fact, all of the countries involved with the exception of the particularly loathsome ones do. For fuck's sake, Houston Texas has the same problem. It is a hub for sex slaves trafficked from latin america and sex slaves in the form of kidnapped american children.
And yet some people still think that any attempt to secure the border is bad. Tell me, what is the point of running across to America to work and to escape the violence when you arent safe from it over here because the Cartels and gangs can cross it just as easily?

Letting immigrants in is one thing, but letting the border get this out of control and leaving it that way is inexcusable.

Also, I did a little looking up, and the old quotas for Immigration Pre-LBJ, well most of them had little to no restrictions on immigrants from Latin America.

Weird isnt?
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

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Nothing good about the govt. Its still amazes me that people still think that the American populace should be disarmed and that only our govt should have guns etc etc. Especially when this shit is thrown up. It still amazes me that some people think we should trust our govt period.
How precisely do you get from "torture regime" to "gun control"?
And yet some people still think that any attempt to secure the border is bad. Tell me, what is the point of running across to America to work and to escape the violence when you arent safe from it over here because the Cartels and gangs can cross it just as easily?
Do you have any idea what would actually be involved in securing our border with Mexico? In fact, let me explain something to you.

There are a number of ways to engage in human slave trafficking. Only some of which have anything to do with border security. Many slaves in the US are technically legal immigrants. A corrupt businessman or just a shell corporation sponsors them for a work visa (they are of course promised good jobs) and pays the relevant fines. When they get here, they find their passports taken and in debt to the person who sponsored them. That is just one way. Another way is to play the lottery with legitimate merchant traffic. Customs does not and cannot check every shipping container that comes into the US. Put a bunch of kidnapped women in there and hope it does not get spot checked. Works most of the time.

The really sick shit happens when pedophiles go overseas to adopt orphans.

The same shit happens in europe, the laws and such are just different and skirted accordingly. Do not turn the issue of slaving into a border control issue, because frankly, there is not actually a feasible way to secure the border so as to prevent it.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

Post by Dominarch's Hope »

Yes, and leaving the borders basically wide ass open helps how exactly?

Although yeah, to inspect every bit of legitimate merchant trading, it would take millions.

Also, most of the American Sex Trade is internally derived. As in, people already here. And the pedophile shit? I cant answer for that shit other than a lot of parents willingly sell their children. For a variety of reasons. But tis almost an entirely different eiisue. But it does remind me of Putin apparently banning American Adoptions of Russian children.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

Post by Zanfib »

I would imagine that leaving the borders open 'helps' by not wasting millions of dollars on a massively impractical 'great wall of America'. These millions can then be spent on programs that actually address the problem directly.
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Re: More than 50 countries helped the CIA outsource torture

Post by ryacko »

If we didn't have so many tariffs, wouldbe immigrants could end up with better jobs in their own country.
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