Army Officer Won’t Accept Obama As Commander in Chief

[Flagg]

MSNBC

Army officer won’t accept Obama as chief
Sources: Doctor who refused to deploy to Afghanistan faces court-martial
NBC News and news services
updated 28 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The Army will court-martial a lieutenant colonel who refused to deploy to Afghanistan because he considers orders from President Barack Obama to be illegal, military officials told NBC News on Tuesday.

Army doctor Lt. Col. Terry Lakin believes Obama does not meet the constitutional requirements to be president and commander-in-chief because Lakin believes the president was not born in the United States. A video with statements from Lakin on the subject was released by the right-wing American Patriot Foundation.

Lakin refused to report to Fort Campbell, Ky., for deployment to Afghanistan, but instead went to the Pentagon. There on Monday he was confronted by his brigade commander, Col. Gordon Roberts, and informed he would face court martial, and his Pentagon building pass and government laptop computer were seized.

According to Lakin, he was read the military equivalent of his Miranda rights. The specific charges are not known, but military officials believe it could include "missing a movement" or failure to report for duty, and "conduct unbecoming an officer."

Roberts is the commander of the medical brigade out of Walter Reed. He is the only active-duty Medal of Honor winner in the military. He received the honor for action in Vietnam.

The Constitution states that a person must be a "natural-born citizen" to be eligible for the presidency. So-called birthers have contended that Obama's birth certificate is a fake, and many say he was actually born in Kenya, his father's homeland. They challenged his citizenship in court, and the issue became a staple of radio talk shows and conservative blogs.

Obama was born in Hawaii, and Hawaii Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued statements last year and in October 2008 saying that she's seen vital records that prove Obama is a natural-born American citizen.

The state registrar of vital statistics also has verified that the Health Department holds Obama's original birth certificate, copies of which were released by the Obama presidential campaign in 2008.

This report from NBC News Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski includes information from The Associated Press.

They can still shoot people for this right? I mean I know they won't, but if they could I'd like to be in the front row. Not because he's a mutinous cunt, but because he's a birther.

[Atlan]

MSNBC


They can still shoot people for this right? I mean I know they won't, but if they could I'd like to be in the front row. Not because he's a mutinous cunt, but because he's a birther.

Somehow these shitbags allways pull this just before they're about to deploy. It's not like he's the first one. Birther, or Dodger?
And I wonder of Orly Taitz has something to do with this A-hole too. Did she ever pay that fine?

Anyway, the screeching sound you might hear in the background is his career coming to a dead stop.

[Sea Skimmer]

They can still shoot people for this right? I mean I know they won't, but if they could I'd like to be in the front row. Not because he's a mutinous cunt, but because he's a birther.

No, you cannot be shot for refusing to obey an order under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. This is rather important part of military law, so that a member of the United States military doesn’t have to worry about being killed if he refuses what he believes to be an illegal order and loses the court marshal.

Mutiny is a crime still punishable by death, and indeed even failing to report an act of mutiny by others can be punished by death, but mutiny requires an act of conspiracy to be involved. One man standing up and openly refusing to deploy is not mutiny. If this guy convinced other people to stand beside him and refuse to deploy, or otherwise made secret plans then it would be.

[General Zod]

MSNBC


They can still shoot people for this right? I mean I know they won't, but if they could I'd like to be in the front row. Not because he's a mutinous cunt, but because he's a birther.

Somehow these shitbags allways pull this just before they're about to deploy. It's not like he's the first one. Birther, or Dodger?
And I wonder of Orly Taitz has something to do with this A-hole too. Did she ever pay that fine?

Anyway, the screeching sound you might hear in the background is his career coming to a dead stop.

I suspect a dodger would have a hard time reaching the rank of Lt. Colonel. Birther seems most likely.

[Enforcer Talen]

Lt Watada did this a couple years back, saying the Iraq war was illegal. I guess it's a good sign the troops check their conscience?

[The Romulan Republic]

They can still shoot people for this right? I mean I know they won't, but if they could I'd like to be in the front row. Not because he's a mutinous cunt, but because he's a birther.

Emphasis mine.

So, you're saying you want to see people shot for having offensive and ignorant opinions?

[Lonestar]

I suspect a dodger would have a hard time reaching the rank of Lt. Colonel. Birther seems most likely.

IIRC, physicians actually enter the service at a higher rank than than your average dude coming out of ROTC or OCS. If it's a particular rare specialty it might even be a higher rank than normal.

Likewise, I've heard from waterfront rumor that In the navy you have specialists musicians who went to some school and ended up entering as E6s or something. So it's not unheard of.

And hell, didn't we have a Major(one paygrade under this LTC) recently snap and go on a killing spree when told that he would have to deploy?

[Aaron]

IIRC, physicians actually enter the service at a higher rank than than your average dude coming out of ROTC or OCS. If it's a particular rare specialty it might even be a higher rank than normal.

Army rank of Captain, nurses start at Lt.

[Napoleon the Clown]

Since he served in Vietnam and got a Medal of Honor doing so, I'd say the odds a pretty good he's just a birther. A particularly devoted one at that.

[Aaron]

Since he served in Vietnam and got a Medal of Honor doing so, I'd say the odds a pretty good he's just a birther. A particularly devoted one at that.

Thats his CO. The guy refusing to accept Obama is Lakin.

[Napoleon the Clown]

I misread then. Oops.

[Knife]

Yeah, I'm going with birther. He wants to make a circus out of this and get a military court to say Obama isn't the CnC. His career is over, so much for all those years of service, ended in disgrace.

[Isolder74]

Yeah, I'm going with birther. He wants to make a circus out of this and get a military court to say Obama isn't the CnC. His career is over, so much for all those years of service, ended in disgrace.

No Military Court is going to do what they want. The problem with the birthers is you can take them to the records vault in Hawaii and show them the actual document filled out that day for his birth and they will still insist that it is a forgery. All this seems is nothing more then another excuse for Orly Talz(sp?) to get herself back into the news again. I say forget them. Considering that his mother was a natural born citizen of the United States he could have been born on Pluto and still be eligible to be president of the United States as the Constitution only requires one parent to be Natural born for the person to be considered a natural born citizen of the United States. Being born in the US is just gravy.

[Flagg]

They can still shoot people for this right? I mean I know they won't, but if they could I'd like to be in the front row. Not because he's a mutinous cunt, but because he's a birther.

Emphasis mine.

So, you're saying you want to see people shot for having offensive and ignorant opinions?

It's called humor. Look it up.

[Flagg]

Lt Watada did this a couple years back, saying the Iraq war was illegal. I guess it's a good sign the troops check their conscience?

Different situation. Watada believed a war he was being sent to was illegal (and there are some pretty good arguments on his side), not that the person giving the orders to deploy wasn't legitimately entitled to give said orders.

That being said, I think the proper course of action in both cases would be to deploy while your court case against deploying for whatever reason was being heard. Except for the birther, he should be reassigned to "Operation Human Shield".

[The Romulan Republic]

It's called humor. Look it up.

To be blunt, it is sometimes difficult to tell weather people are being serious, especially on-line, and all the more because there are so many people who say outrageous things about which they are completely serious. Trust me, I have seen comparably stupid things said completely seriously. And I'm willing to be you have too.

I'm sorry if I made an unwarranted assumption, but I had no reason to assume you are joking, certainly not any more than I had reason to assume you were serious.

However, I will withdraw my previous comment at this time.

[Solauren]

Question:

They seized his laptop. Presumably, they will be doing some more detailed checking...

If he sent e-mails to other services members going 'I'm refusing deployment cause the president is illegal' (or whatever), and included suggestions the recieving officers should refuse orders/deployment, or some of that birther evidence crap to them...

Would that count as conspriacy or mutiny?

[Patrick Degan]

Question:

They seized his laptop. Presumably, they will be doing some more detailed checking...

If he sent e-mails to other services members going 'I'm refusing deployment cause the president is illegal' (or whatever), and included suggestions the recieving officers should refuse orders/deployment, or some of that birther evidence crap to them...

Would that count as conspriacy or mutiny?

The charge in that case would be conspiracy to incite disaffection. As it stands now, the likely charge against Col. Lakin is insubordination.

[CmdrWilkens]

Question:

They seized his laptop. Presumably, they will be doing some more detailed checking...

If he sent e-mails to other services members going 'I'm refusing deployment cause the president is illegal' (or whatever), and included suggestions the recieving officers should refuse orders/deployment, or some of that birther evidence crap to them...

Would that count as conspriacy or mutiny?

Its only mutiny if others went along with it, since he is alone it cannot be mutiny. Given that he is in direct contravention of orders issued by his immediate superior insubordination will be the first and easiest charge and could even dodge the entire birther question. His orders to report are almost assuredly signed by someone other than Obama himself, most likely either his CO or someone at G-1 (Personnel) in the Pentagon, thus he is in contravention of orders from a superior officer whose legitimacy he would ALSO have to question (and who is most likely a General Officer subject to confirmation by the US Senate). I'd half suspect that the prosecuting officer may just go that route because it avoids the crazy and would make swift work of the whole thing.

[Ritterin Sophia]

It's called humor. Look it up.

Can you define for me what constitutes an illegal war?

[Flagg]

It's called humor. Look it up.

Can you define for me what constitutes an illegal war?

War of aggression.

[Tsyroc]

I was reading postings on this on some news board the other day and man was it pissing me off.

People were trying to argue that this guy (who is a birther) was doing the right thing because the military swears and oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. Which is true. But how does that pertain to this Lt. Col refusing an order to deploy?

He's saying that the order is unlawful because it comes from the CnC who legally can't be the CnC.

I don't know about anyone else whose been in the American military but I don't remember any of my orders, written or otherwise, coming from the CNC. They were all from people below him. So to not follow those orders would mean he's not following the orders of a commissioned officer above him in the chain of command. It is not up to the Lt. Col to decide that the people above him are following illegal orders it's up to him to follow the lawful orders given to him by his superiors.

Besides, I highly doubt that the President has anything to do with the day to day orders that adjust staffing on various military commands. That's essentially what the orders this Lt. Col is refusing to follow are.

Also, while there are certain types of illegal orders that a soldier/sailor/Marine is morally obligated to just out and out refuse right away. This one doesn't qualify. If you disagree with an order but it is otherwise safe to follow you follow it and file a grievance up the chain of command. This guy is a physician. Unless he's a bad or evil physician he isn't going to be doing any harm by deploying. If anything he'll be helping people.

I'm curious as to what this guy thinks he's going to get out of this that makes it worth while to throw away 18 years of service. Is he sick of the military and decided he wants to jump start a right wing looney political career? Everything else doesn't make any sense at all.

[Ritterin Sophia]

It's called humor. Look it up.

Can you define for me what constitutes an illegal war?

War of aggression.

Okay, just as long as we're on the same page. Good luck trying to pass it off to the public, though.

[Sarevok]

The scary thing is how can a soldier decide for himself who is the rightful president. It is that line of thinking that leads to coups and civil wars. Regardless of personal feelings on election results a soldier should respect the outcome. If they think something was fishy they should protest while not in uniform. When a soldier mixes up personal politics and his professional life as a member of the armed forces bad things happen for all.

[Patrick Degan]

The scary thing is how can a soldier decide for himself who is the rightful president. It is that line of thinking that leads to coups and civil wars. Regardless of personal feelings on election results a soldier should respect the outcome. If they think something was fishy they should protest while not in uniform. When a soldier mixes up personal politics and his professional life as a member of the armed forces bad things happen for all.

What would make it scary is if that soldier could convince others not to accept the results of a national election. Worse if it happened to be a general. Fortunately, things are nowhere near that sort of pass in this country, and the odd officer like Col. Lakin ends up paying the price for his folly.