Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

Post by Big Orange »

America's crack down on the homeless and non-white urbanites goes up a gear, causing more problems than it solves:
Is It Now a Crime to Be Poor?
By BARBARA EHRENREICH
Published: August 8, 2009


IT’S too bad so many people are falling into poverty at a time when it’s almost illegal to be poor. You won’t be arrested for shopping in a Dollar Store, but if you are truly, deeply, in-the-streets poor, you’re well advised not to engage in any of the biological necessities of life — like sitting, sleeping, lying down or loitering. City officials boast that there is nothing discriminatory about the ordinances that afflict the destitute, most of which go back to the dawn of gentrification in the ’80s and ’90s. “If you’re lying on a sidewalk, whether you’re homeless or a millionaire, you’re in violation of the ordinance,” a city attorney in St. Petersburg, Fla., said in June, echoing Anatole France’s immortal observation that “the law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges.”

In defiance of all reason and compassion, the criminalization of poverty has actually been intensifying as the recession generates ever more poverty. So concludes a new study from the National Law Center on Homelessness and Poverty, which found that the number of ordinances against the publicly poor has been rising since 2006, along with ticketing and arrests for more “neutral” infractions like jaywalking, littering or carrying an open container of alcohol.

The report lists America’s 10 “meanest” cities — the largest of which are Honolulu, Los Angeles and San Francisco — but new contestants are springing up every day. The City Council in Grand Junction, Colo., has been considering a ban on begging, and at the end of June, Tempe, Ariz., carried out a four-day crackdown on the indigent. How do you know when someone is indigent? As a Las Vegas statute puts it, “An indigent person is a person whom a reasonable ordinary person would believe to be entitled to apply for or receive” public assistance.

That could be me before the blow-drying and eyeliner, and it’s definitely Al Szekely at any time of day. A grizzled 62-year-old, he inhabits a wheelchair and is often found on G Street in Washington — the city that is ultimately responsible for the bullet he took in the spine in Fu Bai, Vietnam, in 1972. He had been enjoying the luxury of an indoor bed until last December, when the police swept through the shelter in the middle of the night looking for men with outstanding warrants.

It turned out that Mr. Szekely, who is an ordained minister and does not drink, do drugs or curse in front of ladies, did indeed have a warrant — for not appearing in court to face a charge of “criminal trespassing” (for sleeping on a sidewalk in a Washington suburb). So he was dragged out of the shelter and put in jail. “Can you imagine?” asked Eric Sheptock, the homeless advocate (himself a shelter resident) who introduced me to Mr. Szekely. “They arrested a homeless man in a shelter for being homeless.”

The viciousness of the official animus toward the indigent can be breathtaking. A few years ago, a group called Food Not Bombs started handing out free vegan food to hungry people in public parks around the nation. A number of cities, led by Las Vegas, passed ordinances forbidding the sharing of food with the indigent in public places, and several members of the group were arrested. A federal judge just overturned the anti-sharing law in Orlando, Fla., but the city is appealing. And now Middletown, Conn., is cracking down on food sharing.

If poverty tends to criminalize people, it is also true that criminalization inexorably impoverishes them. Scott Lovell, another homeless man I interviewed in Washington, earned his record by committing a significant crime — by participating in the armed robbery of a steakhouse when he was 15. Although Mr. Lovell dresses and speaks more like a summer tourist from Ohio than a felon, his criminal record has made it extremely difficult for him to find a job.

For Al Szekely, the arrest for trespassing meant a further descent down the circles of hell. While in jail, he lost his slot in the shelter and now sleeps outside the Verizon Center sports arena, where the big problem, in addition to the security guards, is mosquitoes. His stick-thin arms are covered with pink crusty sores, which he treats with a regimen of frantic scratching.

For the not-yet-homeless, there are two main paths to criminalization — one involving debt, and the other skin color. Anyone of any color or pre-recession financial status can fall into debt, and although we pride ourselves on the abolition of debtors’ prison, in at least one state, Texas, people who can’t afford to pay their traffic fines may be made to “sit out their tickets” in jail.

Often the path to legal trouble begins when one of your creditors has a court issue a summons for you, which you fail to honor for one reason or another. (Maybe your address has changed or you never received it.) Now you’re in contempt of court. Or suppose you miss a payment and, before you realize it, your car insurance lapses; then you’re stopped for something like a broken headlight. Depending on the state, you may have your car impounded or face a steep fine — again, exposing you to a possible summons. “There’s just no end to it once the cycle starts,” said Robert Solomon of Yale Law School. “It just keeps accelerating.”

By far the most reliable way to be criminalized by poverty is to have the wrong-color skin. Indignation runs high when a celebrity professor encounters racial profiling, but for decades whole communities have been effectively “profiled” for the suspicious combination of being both dark-skinned and poor, thanks to the “broken windows” or “zero tolerance” theory of policing popularized by Rudy Giuliani, when he was mayor of New York City, and his police chief William Bratton.

Flick a cigarette in a heavily patrolled community of color and you’re littering; wear the wrong color T-shirt and you’re displaying gang allegiance. Just strolling around in a dodgy neighborhood can mark you as a potential suspect, according to “Let’s Get Free: A Hip-Hop Theory of Justice,” an eye-opening new book by Paul Butler, a former federal prosecutor in Washington. If you seem at all evasive, which I suppose is like looking “overly anxious” in an airport, Mr. Butler writes, the police “can force you to stop just to investigate why you don’t want to talk to them.” And don’t get grumpy about it or you could be “resisting arrest.”

There’s no minimum age for being sucked into what the Children’s Defense Fund calls “the cradle-to-prison pipeline.” In New York City, a teenager caught in public housing without an ID — say, while visiting a friend or relative — can be charged with criminal trespassing and wind up in juvenile detention, Mishi Faruqee, the director of youth justice programs for the Children’s Defense Fund of New York, told me. In just the past few months, a growing number of cities have taken to ticketing and sometimes handcuffing teenagers found on the streets during school hours.

In Los Angeles, the fine for truancy is $250; in Dallas, it can be as much as $500 — crushing amounts for people living near the poverty level. According to the Los Angeles Bus Riders Union, an advocacy group, 12,000 students were ticketed for truancy in 2008.

Why does the Bus Riders Union care? Because it estimates that 80 percent of the “truants,” especially those who are black or Latino, are merely late for school, thanks to the way that over-filled buses whiz by them without stopping. I met people in Los Angeles who told me they keep their children home if there’s the slightest chance of their being late. It’s an ingenious anti-truancy policy that discourages parents from sending their youngsters to school.

The pattern is to curtail financing for services that might help the poor while ramping up law enforcement: starve school and public transportation budgets, then make truancy illegal. Shut down public housing, then make it a crime to be homeless. Be sure to harass street vendors when there are few other opportunities for employment. The experience of the poor, and especially poor minorities, comes to resemble that of a rat in a cage scrambling to avoid erratically administered electric shocks.

And if you should make the mistake of trying to escape via a brief marijuana-induced high, it’s “gotcha” all over again, because that of course is illegal too. One result is our staggering level of incarceration, the highest in the world. Today the same number of Americans — 2.3 million — reside in prison as in public housing.

Meanwhile, the public housing that remains has become ever more prisonlike, with residents subjected to drug testing and random police sweeps. The safety net, or what’s left of it, has been transformed into a dragnet.

Some of the community organizers I’ve talked to around the country think they know why “zero tolerance” policing has ratcheted up since the recession began. Leonardo Vilchis of the Union de Vecinos, a community organization in Los Angeles, suspects that “poor people have become a source of revenue” for recession-starved cities, and that the police can always find a violation leading to a fine. If so, this is a singularly demented fund-raising strategy. At a Congressional hearing in June, the president of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers testified about the pervasive “overcriminalization of crimes that are not a risk to public safety,” like sleeping in a cardboard box or jumping turnstiles, which leads to expensively clogged courts and prisons.

A Pew Center study released in March found states spending a record $51.7 billion on corrections, an amount that the center judged, with an excess of moderation, to be “too much.”

But will it be enough — the collision of rising prison populations that we can’t afford and the criminalization of poverty — to force us to break the mad cycle of poverty and punishment? With the number of people in poverty increasing (some estimates suggest it’s up to 45 million to 50 million, from 37 million in 2007) several states are beginning to ease up on the criminalization of poverty — for example, by sending drug offenders to treatment rather than jail, shortening probation and reducing the number of people locked up for technical violations like missed court appointments. But others are tightening the screws: not only increasing the number of “crimes” but also charging prisoners for their room and board — assuring that they’ll be released with potentially criminalizing levels of debt.

Maybe we can’t afford the measures that would begin to alleviate America’s growing poverty — affordable housing, good schools, reliable public transportation and so forth. I would argue otherwise, but for now I’d be content with a consensus that, if we can’t afford to truly help the poor, neither can we afford to go on tormenting them.
The New York Times

I hazard a guess the decline of school bus services leading to less kids going to school in the face of ever more draconian crackdowns on truancy is the direct result of different government departments not aware of each other's actions.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

Post by Axis Kast »

There’s no minimum age for being sucked into what the Children’s Defense Fund calls “the cradle-to-prison pipeline.” In New York City, a teenager caught in public housing without an ID — say, while visiting a friend or relative — can be charged with criminal trespassing and wind up in juvenile detention, Mishi Faruqee, the director of youth justice programs for the Children’s Defense Fund of New York, told me. In just the past few months, a growing number of cities have taken to ticketing and sometimes handcuffing teenagers found on the streets during school hours.
For good or ill, this is a byproduct of the War on Drugs: police use the city's title to housing projects in order to run out peripatetic drug dealers and gang members by invoking the trespassing laws. I presume it can also be used for a stop-and-search.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Shit, we need some more of this in DC; to get rid of the homless on steam grates outside major federal buildings and the Smithsonian museums.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

Post by Samuel »

MKSheppard wrote:Shit, we need some more of this in DC; to get rid of the homless on steam grates outside major federal buildings and the Smithsonian museums.
Your tireless concern for the poor and underpriviledge is touching, but you don't have to go out of your way to help them. I'm sure the government is planning a way to help and fix this.
Flick a cigarette in a heavily patrolled community of color and you’re littering; wear the wrong color T-shirt and you’re displaying gang allegiance.
After all, this seems to be a reasonable restriction. Our tireless war against litter will achieve results!

Is it just me or is the social services provided by the prison system better than what these people are getting? What kind of prison do you get sent to for failure to pay fines or other crimes that this article covers?
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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MKSheppard wrote:Shit, we need some more of this in DC; to get rid of the homless on steam grates outside major federal buildings and the Smithsonian museums.
Is your going out of the way to act like a douchebag supposed to impress us or something?
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

Post by Themightytom »

Hey if cities want to pave the way for lawsuit millionaires, and feel like they ahve the cash to detan and process homeless people good luck with that. Our police decided a long time ago they hav :wtf: e better things to do than bug the homeless, although they do break up the campground every now and then for appearance sake. The socials ervices in prison are generally grabage though. They don't even give people all their stuff back when they release them. We were trying to get them to provide ID's for anyone they discharge, as often one will expire, or not be with the person when they are arrested: the state prison responded they don't actually ahve the documentation to prove that incarcerated individuals are who they say they are.. in other words they don't know who they have

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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Big Orange wrote:I hazard a guess the decline of school bus services leading to less kids going to school in the face of ever more draconian crackdowns on truancy is the direct result of different government departments not aware of each other's actions.
Quite likely. One idiot not knowing what the next idiot is doing can lead to odd results. In this case I suspect the reforms are viewed as a great success.
The savings made on the buss service have resulted in more busses running at a cost effective 100% capacity. The increased effort against truancy have also yeilded excelent results with more brats getting fined - a perfect victory for the administrators and politicians involved!
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Actually, these policies are based of the theory of "Fixing Broken Windows". This is my analogy of the theory. Basically, crime is like a fungus. It starts out small but if you don't do anything about it then it spreads and gets worse therefore requiring more effort to remove.

Though I've never been any good at analogies so here's the Wiki Link

I hate to say it but with the homeless comes an increase in property crimes such as general theft, burglary of businesses and vehicles, shoplifting, and vandalism.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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That's retarded. The idea is that people are shaped by environment and opportunity; if damage/graffiti/open prostitution is seen as acceptable, crime rates go up. I have no idea why you need an analogy for a proposed direct relationship.

It pretty clearly works, too. It doesn't remove crime, but it does move crime. There's a reason abandoned buildings can't be left to rot in AU. It's just sad when they do it without changing demographics (like in Woodridge, where they spent piles on redeveloping the centre of town but didn't move the housing commission/poor minority population, so now you've got families camping out the front of a REALLY NICE LOOKING pub drinking tallies at 8am).
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Kamakazie Sith wrote: I hate to say it but with the homeless comes an increase in property crimes such as general theft, burglary of businesses and vehicles, shoplifting, and vandalism.
However, criminalising homelessness itself simply makes it harder to get people off the streets permanently, meaning that any secondary effect crimes are simply never going to go away.

It's like doing all your cleaning by simply shoving the piles of dirt around for a while, and never actually sweeping them up into the bin.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Stark wrote:That's retarded. The idea is that people are shaped by environment and opportunity; if damage/graffiti/open prostitution is seen as acceptable, crime rates go up. I have no idea why you need an analogy for a proposed direct relationship.
Who said I needed an analogy? :roll: It's more like I wanted an analogy because I was in an analogy creating mood. DUH.
It pretty clearly works, too. It doesn't remove crime, but it does move crime. There's a reason abandoned buildings can't be left to rot in AU. It's just sad when they do it without changing demographics (like in Woodridge, where they spent piles on redeveloping the centre of town but didn't move the housing commission/poor minority population, so now you've got families camping out the front of a REALLY NICE LOOKING pub drinking tallies at 8am).
SLC has exactly the same problem. They built a really nice mall and businesses are surrounding the local homeless shelter. They also have marathons that go through the street the shelter is on. It's like the city wants to push the homeless out by having all this other stuff nearby but they don't want to pay to re-locate the shelter.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Vendetta wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote: I hate to say it but with the homeless comes an increase in property crimes such as general theft, burglary of businesses and vehicles, shoplifting, and vandalism.
However, criminalising homelessness itself simply makes it harder to get people off the streets permanently, meaning that any secondary effect crimes are simply never going to go away.

It's like doing all your cleaning by simply shoving the piles of dirt around for a while, and never actually sweeping them up into the bin.
The article is certainly trying to imply that but homelessness in of itself is not a crime. They just make it so if you're homeless then you should only be by the homeless shelter.

The only way to sweep it up would be to make the homeless productive members of society but you can't force them to gets job and stay off the drugs that plague them.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Kamakazie Sith wrote: The article is certainly trying to imply that but homelessness in of itself is not a crime. They just make it so if you're homeless then you should only be by the homeless shelter.
Which assumes there are enough places at homeless shelters for all the homeless people, which is almost never the case. Also, the article gives at least one case of a man arrested whilst in a homeless shelter for the offence of being homeless elsewhere, since when he has never been able to get back into a place in a shelter.

That kind of petty enforcement, along with things like outlawing soup kitchens, exactly the sort of support that homeless people need, just keeps them on the streets, because they can't get into the limited shelter places.
The only way to sweep it up would be to make the homeless productive members of society but you can't force them to gets job and stay off the drugs that plague them.
A good start would be to make sure that there are shelter places available, and that people can always get into them, and that there are soup kitchens available so that the homeless can get something nutritious. A big part of the drug use and alcoholism among homeless people is that they use them to numb the pain of being homeless, if you're out on the street and can't get a bed or a roof, you can't get warm at night, you can't stop being hungry, but you can fuck your brain up so you're beyond the point of caring.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Vendetta wrote:
Which assumes there are enough places at homeless shelters for all the homeless people, which is almost never the case. Also, the article gives at least one case of a man arrested whilst in a homeless shelter for the offence of being homeless elsewhere, since when he has never been able to get back into a place in a shelter.

That kind of petty enforcement, along with things like outlawing soup kitchens, exactly the sort of support that homeless people need, just keeps them on the streets, because they can't get into the limited shelter places.
Yes, it does assume that.

I'm assuming you're talking about this guy; "It turned out that Mr. Szekely, who is an ordained minister and does not drink, do drugs or curse in front of ladies, did indeed have a warrant — for not appearing in court to face a charge of “criminal trespassing” (for sleeping on a sidewalk in a Washington suburb). So he was dragged out of the shelter and put in jail. “Can you imagine?” asked Eric Sheptock, the homeless advocate (himself a shelter resident) who introduced me to Mr. Szekely. “They arrested a homeless man in a shelter for being homeless.”

He wasn't arrested for being homeless elsewhere. He was arrested for a warrant that was issued because he failed to appear before a judge due to him sleeping on a sidewalk in a suburb, or in other words he was trespassing. If he would have appeared before the judge he might have been able to plead his case and be given some resources to help him.

So, no they did not arrest a homeless man in a shelter for being homeless. They arrested him for disobeying a notice to appear before a judge.
A good start would be to make sure that there are shelter places available, and that people can always get into them, and that there are soup kitchens available so that the homeless can get something nutritious. A big part of the drug use and alcoholism among homeless people is that they use them to numb the pain of being homeless, if you're out on the street and can't get a bed or a roof, you can't get warm at night, you can't stop being hungry, but you can fuck your brain up so you're beyond the point of caring.
It's a bit more complicated than even that. The homeless population is plagued by mental illness, and a lot of the others are homeless because they let their substance abuse was a problem before they were on the streets.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Kamakazie Sith wrote: He wasn't arrested for being homeless elsewhere. He was arrested for a warrant that was issued because he failed to appear before a judge due to him sleeping on a sidewalk in a suburb, or in other words he was trespassing. If he would have appeared before the judge he might have been able to plead his case and be given some resources to help him.

So, no they did not arrest a homeless man in a shelter for being homeless. They arrested him for disobeying a notice to appear before a judge.
However, the original order to appear before a judge was for being homeless, because of the dimwitted decision to define the crime of "criminal trespass" in such a way that it includes people who are forced by circumstances to sleep on the sidewalk. What? You think the guy wanted to be sleeping there?

If you want the police to move people on that are sleeping on the sidewalk, then make sure there are places for the police to pick them up and take them to where they can subsequently be helped not to be on the sidewalk again tomorrow night, and let that be the end of the issue.

Once more, it's all about petty enforcement of a counterproductive law because it lets the city/county/state pretend that Something Is Being Done about homeless people.
It's a bit more complicated than even that. The homeless population is plagued by mental illness, and a lot of the others are homeless because they let their substance abuse was a problem before they were on the streets.
Which, of course, indicates that these people need more assistance in order to keep them off the streets. If they're mentally ill they need to be in medically supervised accommodation, if they're pre-existing addicts they still need to be in shelters where their reliance on drugs can be reduced, because it sure as fuck isn't going to be whilst they're living on the street except by their death.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Vendetta wrote: However, the original order to appear before a judge was for being homeless, because of the dimwitted decision to define the crime of "criminal trespass" in such a way that it includes people who are forced by circumstances to sleep on the sidewalk. What? You think the guy wanted to be sleeping there?
Again, those laws exist so the police can do something about someone sleeping on a sidewalk in a suburb. If they didn't have that law then the police would not be able to do anything, and then you have the pressure of the residents in those suburbs to take action against them. Like I said it's more complicated than this article makes it out to be.
If you want the police to move people on that are sleeping on the sidewalk, then make sure there are places for the police to pick them up and take them to where they can subsequently be helped not to be on the sidewalk again tomorrow night, and let that be the end of the issue.
I agree, but you need money for that.
Once more, it's all about petty enforcement of a counterproductive law because it lets the city/county/state pretend that Something Is Being Done about homeless people.
True, I'll certainly give you that. Though I think you're in a fantasy of your own if you think it's as simple as you've stated it to be. It's not as simple as build it and they will come.
Which, of course, indicates that these people need more assistance in order to keep them off the streets. If they're mentally ill they need to be in medically supervised accommodation, if they're pre-existing addicts they still need to be in shelters where their reliance on drugs can be reduced, because it sure as fuck isn't going to be whilst they're living on the street except by their death.
Agreed, but there's no money for all that wonderful stuff. So, until the pots of money open up for that stuff the things that are implace now are to manage the problem.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Kamakazie Sith wrote: Again, those laws exist so the police can do something about someone sleeping on a sidewalk in a suburb. If they didn't have that law then the police would not be able to do anything, and then you have the pressure of the residents in those suburbs to take action against them. Like I said it's more complicated than this article makes it out to be.
Does the law have to define something as criminal in order to allow the police to do anything at all about it? Is there no provision for community support roles in the US? Is it categorically impossible to write the law in such a fashion that it does not require appearance before a judge except in cases where the police have cause to believe that malice is involved? (Whose time, and the time of the rest of the mechanism of the court and prison system if necessary, obviously takes up money)
I agree, but you need money for that.
Of course. But money is already being spent on enforcement of the existing wrongheaded laws, to pay for courts to hear cases and prisons if people are sent there.
It's not as simple as build it and they will come.
No, but build it and give people an incentive and they might. Give the police the power to wake up and move on anyone sleeping on the sidewalk, but also make it policy to offer to take those people to a shelter or other designated safe drop off point.
Agreed, but there's no money for all that wonderful stuff. So, until the pots of money open up for that stuff the things that are implace now are to manage the problem.
Currently in America there's no money for a lot of things, but it turns out that the social cost of not paying for it is probably more than the cost of paying for it, so finding the money, by diverting it from enforcement to preventative community support, or even horrors raising it from taxation, would save money in the long run, what with not having to waste the time of judges on trivial bullshit cases, not having to pay to clean up quite as much grafitti or other vandalism, etc.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

Post by Kamakazie Sith »

Vendetta wrote: Does the law have to define something as criminal in order to allow the police to do anything at all about it? Is there no provision for community support roles in the US? Is it categorically impossible to write the law in such a fashion that it does not require appearance before a judge except in cases where the police have cause to believe that malice is involved? (Whose time, and the time of the rest of the mechanism of the court and prison system if necessary, obviously takes up money)
Whoa, Vendetta. Now you're expecting politicians to think at their pay level.

My only point is that the homeless situation is very complicated and these laws are meant to give police the ability to deal with them when they're a problem and the examples in these stories are suspect to me because we don't know the entire circumstance. Like the guy sleeping on the sidewalk...he could have easily been approached by police and asked to walk to the shelter but then refused and told them to fuck off which happens a lot when homeless are confronted by police...at least in my experience.
Of course. But money is already being spent on enforcement of the existing wrongheaded laws, to pay for courts to hear cases and prisons if people are sent there.
Well, I can't speak for the cities in the article but SLC has a division called "Homeless Court" which is a bit different and helps identify the homeless and get resources to them in the forms of job, and medication.
No, but build it and give people an incentive and they might. Give the police the power to wake up and move on anyone sleeping on the sidewalk, but also make it policy to offer to take those people to a shelter or other designated safe drop off point.
We already do have that power...except for the taxi service part. Police are meant to enforce the law not to transport people to and from where they need to go. In SLC the homeless shelter has a couple vehicles for transportation.
Currently in America there's no money for a lot of things, but it turns out that the social cost of not paying for it is probably more than the cost of paying for it, so finding the money, by diverting it from enforcement to preventative community support, or even horrors raising it from taxation, would save money in the long run, what with not having to waste the time of judges on trivial bullshit cases, not having to pay to clean up quite as much grafitti or other vandalism, etc.
Again, asking the politicians to think at their pay grade. I agree with you though, but there are lots of things that are seriously under-funded. Preventative community support is a big one, but on the government side the police are seriously under-funded and staffed.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

Post by Broomstick »

Kamakazie Sith wrote:So, no they did not arrest a homeless man in a shelter for being homeless. They arrested him for disobeying a notice to appear before a judge.
I think a reasonable question to ask is if the homeless man in question ever received that notice - aren't most such notices sent by mail, which, with no fixed address, is difficult for the homeless to receive?

Another problem with homeless shelters is crime - back when I worked in social services most of the homeless women we dealt with would NEVER go to a shelter because of assault, theft, and rape. The sole exception was if they could go to an all woman shelter, but at that time in Chicago there was, if I recall, only one such shelter, the vast majority being either mixed or even male-only.

For that matter, a lot of men wouldn't go to homeless shelters back in the late 80's/early 90's due to crime and fears of being further victimized. I'd like to think that things have improved, but at least back then security in shelters was a huge problem. Simply throwing out the "drunks and druggies" isn't really a solution, either - what they needed was security so homeless people could sleep without of being attacked while asleep.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

Post by Alyrium Denryle »

I think a reasonable question to ask is if the homeless man in question ever received that notice - aren't most such notices sent by mail, which, with no fixed address, is difficult for the homeless to receive?
Even better, how was he supposed to get to the courthouse exactly? He had no car, and in many places the homeless are not permitted on public transportation, even to the extent that they managed to beg (which is often illegal) bus fair off of someone.

So SIth, what exactly is so horrible about sharing food with the homeless that it needs to be illegal?
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Kamakazie Sith wrote: Whoa, Vendetta. Now you're expecting politicians to think at their pay level.
True, expecting politicians to think about things beyond which special interest group they have to fellate next is a bit of a stretch...
My only point is that the homeless situation is very complicated and these laws are meant to give police the ability to deal with them when they're a problem and the examples in these stories are suspect to me because we don't know the entire circumstance. Like the guy sleeping on the sidewalk...he could have easily been approached by police and asked to walk to the shelter but then refused and told them to fuck off which happens a lot when homeless are confronted by police...at least in my experience.
Of course, the position of the police when dealing with the homeless probably isn't helped by them being the people that have to enforce bullshit laws
We already do have that power...except for the taxi service part. Police are meant to enforce the law not to transport people to and from where they need to go. In SLC the homeless shelter has a couple vehicles for transportation.
True, though a useful part of keeping the peace sometimes involves picking up waifs and strays and delivering them to somewhere they're not going to cause any trouble. I myself was on the recieving end of this treatment from the Police once, when I'd just moved to a new city, was drunk off my face and completely and utterly lost at four in the morning, as students are wont to be, they helpfully gave me a ride back to somewhere I recognised, from where I could make it home.

It's not "enforcing the law", but it's a good preventative action in the whole "keeping the peace" thing that Police forces get up to.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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To those of you who think that these people are just hapless people who had something bad happen to them...

FUCK YOU

You have never had direct, personal experience with a homeless person that you cannot "drive away from", your experience with them is limited to the guy who panhandles at the stopsign on your way to work.

Oh no, you've never had to live in close proximity with a homeless person. Well I have, in jail, and the guy was TOTAL FUCKING BATSHIT INSANE.

Insane to the point where he used ammonia based cleaner as deoderant and cleaner for his armpits and groin, causing his wang to swell up to such a point he had to be taken to the jail's medical wing.

Crazy enough that he was always in and out of the jail for various reasons. He'd be in our wing for like three months, disappear for one month, and then come back; mainly because he kept getting released, and then arrested for something, like public drunkenness.

Oh yes, he was also crazier than a shithouse rat, with his lips all scarred and cut up from various bottles over the years. DId I also mention he was crazy as a shit house rat?
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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And I'm sure living on the streets was real fucking helpful in letting him cope with living with whatever brain fuckup he had.

What's your excuse?
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Vendetta wrote:And I'm sure living on the streets was real fucking helpful in letting him cope with living with whatever brain fuckup he had.
You know, in a sane world, these people would be locked up in mental asylums, kind of like how they were, before "reforms" in the late 70s closed a lot of state mental hospitals, and turned out the inmates into the cruel world.
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Re: Urban Poverty is Increasingly Criminalized...

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Well that would certainly have kept you away from the general public.
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